Are Obama And McCain Ebbing Or Flowing?

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First Posted: 07-15-08 09:15 PM   |   Updated: 07-23-08 05:12 AM

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Mccain And Obama

About a week ago, Republican media specialist Alex Castellanos asked pollster Scott Rasmussen to add a question to one of his surveys: If the November election were between Barack Obama and George W. Bush, who would you vote for? Obama crushed Bush 54-34.

Noting that tracking polls generally show just a 2 to 4 point edge for Obama over John McCain, Castellanos said the most obvious conclusion is that "McCain is not Bush." But more importantly, Castellanos argued, "It means McCain is not running against the Obama who won Iowa, but [against] the more polarizing Democrat [who] Hillary Clinton was beating like a drum in Texas, Kentucky, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, etc."

In the current political environment, according to Castellanos, "where the GOP is in disgrace, the President is unpopular, gasoline is 5 bucks a gallon, housing prices are sinking, and the economy is in the toilet," Obama's slim lead "means he is not an acceptable Democrat. . . . Obama is in big trouble."

Rasmussen himself is not prepared to draw such dramatic conclusions, but he does think the data send a clear warning to the Obama camp:

"The basic question of this race is whether Obama can pass a certain threshold and be deemed 'acceptable' by enough people to move into the White House. Alex [Castellanos] says Obama is not acceptable. I say we don't know yet....For the first time in a long time, what the candidates and campaigns do in the fall will determine the winner."

While Castellanos is a Republican and Rasmussen is a conservative, a number of Democrats are voicing concerns about the quality of the Obama campaign.

Donna Brazile, who ran Al Gore's 2000 campaign, said the Obama campaign has had a "lousy start to the general election. Although the political environment continues to favor Obama and the Democrats, the candidate is still not fully on four cylinders."

Brazile is also critical of the McCain campaign, voicing what is becoming an increasingly widely held view that the two candidates are both failing to take full advantage of the ineptitude of the other. "McCain cannot seem to find a good team to help highlight all of his personal advantages. He must figure out how to distance himself from Bush without alienating the conservative base he needs to win in November," Brazile said.

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A key Democratic player in the 2004 contest, who requested anonymity, voiced a similar "pox on both your houses" assessment of the prospective nominees:

"The Obama campaign has become everything that caused the Clinton campaign to falter -- arrogance, 'no way we can get beat by that guy' mentality -- play it safe -- hold on to the lead mentality. With all that McCain is up against - the Bush years, a crumbling Republican Party -- and 15 months of 'Obama is amazing,' [McCain] should not be within single digits of Obama - particularly since he has run one of the worst campaigns in decades -- but he is still within striking distance."

Bob Beckel, who managed Walter F. Mondale's 1984 campaign, argues that Obama has lost his edge because he has started to follow the advice of political consultants - like Beckel himself:

"I finally got it. While I was holding Obama to a typical political standard, his supporters' standard, forged in the snows of Iowa and New Hampshire, was more elevated and exacting. To them, the 'Obama of Winter' had been a calling, while the [current] 'Obama of Summer' was causing an uncomfortable disconnect....My sense is that much of the reaction can be laid at the feet of the growing number of political advisers surrounding him. Political consultants, especially at the presidential level, are a cautious breed. Their instinct is to dumb down the candidates positions to the lowest common denominator to avoid offending the most number of voters."

Dan Gerstein, who ran Senator Joe Lieberman's 2006 Connecticut re-election campaign, argued that both Obama and McCain face huge obstacles, but that Obama has done a better job climbing over them:

"Obama has to quickly convince the millions of swing voters who will decide this race that he is not a Black Panther or Muslim stalking horse and that he is qualified to be commander in chief, after three-plus years in the U.S. Senate and no military experience. . . .McCain has to carry the twin albatrosses of a hugely unpopular and divisive president and a hugely unpopular and divisive shooting war; he must manage the ever-present tensions between his maverick record/tendencies and the demands of his base, and as a result spend critical energy every day just in preventing a right-wing revolt; and on top of all that, he must confront doubts about his age from across the political spectrum, and particularly among older voters who should be one of his most target-rich demos for poaching would-be Obama supporters."

In that context, Gerstein argued, "it seems no contest that Obama has run a better and tighter campaign. . . .a clear, consistent compelling message" promoted by a "very disciplined and effective" team. Conversely, Gerstein contends, McCain has failed to develop a rationale for his campaign "above and beyond his biography -- so far you could best describe his message as 'I'm old and white'."

Castellanos sharply disputed this assessment of the Republican candidate. "If McCain is doing so poorly, why is he doing so well?," Castellanos asked. "Could McCain have done a better job using his money and time this spring? Perhaps. but if you had asked the McCain folks back in March if they would be happy with a campaign that had them essentially tied with Obama with only a little more than 100 days to go, they would have asked, 'where do we sign?'"

About a week ago, Republican media specialist Alex Castellanos asked pollster Scott Rasmussen to add a question to one of his surveys: If the November election were between Barack Obama and George W. ...
About a week ago, Republican media specialist Alex Castellanos asked pollster Scott Rasmussen to add a question to one of his surveys: If the November election were between Barack Obama and George W. ...
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- JadedAggie I'm a Fan of JadedAggie 10 fans permalink

Obama is polling extremely well in state polls and worse than expected in national polls. Personally I will take that over the inverse, but I have to say I do wish he was performing better nationally.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 PM on 07/15/2008
- Charmed I'm a Fan of Charmed 31 fans permalink

Obama has a lot of ground to cover with his overseas trip that McCain got to do way back in the beginning of the year. The MSM isn't reporting on any of McCains mixing up things and reference a place that doesn't exist anymore. If Michelle had said what Cindy said about getting around in a jet it would still be BREAKING NEWS. I believe things will work out but there is still alot of work to be done.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 PM on 07/15/2008
- gintheb I'm a Fan of gintheb 8 fans permalink

And they smell.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:54 PM on 07/15/2008
- gala1 I'm a Fan of gala1 46 fans permalink

HE HASN''T WON THE NOMINATION

And given what we've incrementally seen, we should be searching for someone else.

Remind me which American presidents worth remembering tried to control the output of their cartoonists?
I'd say have been so elitist, unrelatable or clueless, but we've had eight years of it and some of you want third helpings.

We've come to to a fine place when McCain sounds like something more of a credible option than Obama.

Moot point.
36 hours before the last election all the preachers were telling their congregations how to vote.
I sat in the pews listening to how I would be colluding with murder and subject to excommunication if i voted for the candidate who was not the Right to Life choice.

These people have not gone away. Neither preachers nor voters.

And with Obama that is just one more reason not to vote for him.
You need to find someone credible by the convention.
Obama is now just seen as even weirder than Kerry

And it isn't about race. I have come to the conclusion that the only people who care what color Obama is are black.. And five of six people aren't, so it's not up there in their list of all the other reasons he just isn't cutting it.

Democrats have one chance to beat McCain.
Obama is not it.

But the field is getting more and more wide open for anyone who'll give us more than a hologram to pay attention to.

--gala1

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:53 PM on 07/15/2008

I'd take bets that your day job involves a sandwich board which reads THE END IS NEAR!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 PM on 07/15/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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"Sixty years after the end of the Second World War, two Japanese veterans have reportedly emerged from the Philippines jungle, declaring that they wish to go home but are afraid of a court martial."

"According to one version, the pair " in their mid-eighties " had no idea the war was over until they came down from the thickly forested mountains near General Santos, a city on the southern island of Mindanao."

When are you going to emerge from the jungle?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:31 PM on 07/15/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1639 fans permalink
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Your time will be better spent collecting money to pay off her debt than fantasizing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 AM on 07/16/2008
- NorVaGal I'm a Fan of NorVaGal 13 fans permalink

We know, gala1. And, the North never won the Civil War, either.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 AM on 07/16/2008
- wedgie I'm a Fan of wedgie 19 fans permalink
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He is cutting it.

Hillary couldn't cut it.

End of story.

**

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:18 AM on 07/16/2008
- gintheb I'm a Fan of gintheb 8 fans permalink

And the front of your underwear get yellow stains.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:50 PM on 07/15/2008
- gintheb I'm a Fan of gintheb 8 fans permalink

When you're 72 you don't flow anymore. You dribble.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:48 PM on 07/15/2008
- ynp7 I'm a Fan of ynp7 2 fans permalink

We need to find a way to kill this myth of the "independent voter." Over half of Americans are now identifying themselves as Democrats in just about every poll. If they all turn out we win no matter what everyone else does. The "independent voters" won't decide this election. The Democratic voters will.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:45 PM on 07/15/2008
- awcbuddy8 I'm a Fan of awcbuddy8 8 fans permalink

They helped out the last 12 years.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 PM on 07/15/2008
- strangelet I'm a Fan of strangelet 27 fans permalink

Mmmm, still depends a little on how they're distributed among the states. If 100% of MA voters describe themselves as Democrats, its still the same number of electoral votes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 AM on 07/16/2008

WOW... this seems to ignore the 9 point lead Obama has today and the lead he has in all the swing states...

While Obama should be crushing McSame, it is to the benefit of the new media that they keep it close... and they are the same people who pay for the polls...

hmmmm....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:42 PM on 07/15/2008
- awcbuddy8 I'm a Fan of awcbuddy8 8 fans permalink

Wow, your butt must be soar from pulling all those stats out of it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 PM on 07/15/2008
- cjk002 I'm a Fan of cjk002 37 fans permalink
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Actually, those numbers probably came from here:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

http://www.electoral-vote.com/


The polls are all over the place, but all of them show Obama with a lead, and he is in a far stronger position than McCain in the electoral college, the only vote that really counts. This is nothing more than a partisan pollster (Castellanos) trying to spin McCain's disastrous campaign.

Obama has a lot of work to do in swaying the 10% of voters who are still undecided, but if he's as weak as some are saying, then why has he consistently held the lead?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 PM on 07/15/2008

I'm laughing that a 20-point lead is somehow "slim" these days. What concerns me more about that poll is the 34 percent who would still vote for boosh. Fool them once, er, twice, shame on them, fool them three times . . .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:05 PM on 07/15/2008
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Fool them three time they should end it right now...Because they must be super rich or super stupid...Either way they must not have been watching this clown for the last 7 1/2 while the rest of us have been in purgatory. . Ending wouldn't be the worst thing they could do, they already voted for Boosh 2 twice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 PM on 07/15/2008
- pupbayer I'm a Fan of pupbayer 23 fans permalink

9 points? Is that an Obama poll?

"The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll shows Barack Obama attracting 44% of the vote while John McCain earns 40%. When "leaners" are included, it’s Obama 47% and McCain 45%."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:15 PM on 07/15/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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They are refering to the 9 point Quinnipiac poll:

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1192

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 PM on 07/15/2008

Also, with regard to the polls, McCain is topping out at 46% of the vote; with most polls he's in the low 40's. For contrast, Obama's frequently hitting the high 40's or breaking the 50% barrier. [BTW, add in Nader and Barr, and McCain's numbers drop to the high 30's; Obama's change negligibly.] I think that point is too frequently overlooked. McCain hasn't figured out how to break that mid-40's ceiling of support. Is it even possible? Maybe. Maybe not.

Ultimately, Obama may have an easier task (as noted in an article by Charlie Cook). Obama just has to reassure voters that he can handle the job. The focus on national security this week, the trip abroad, and a consistent (and hopefully strong) debate performance should do that. McCain, on the other hand, has to persuade voters that he would be different AND better than Bush. That's a more difficult task, and that's where 80%-wrong-track mentality of the nation weighs heavily against his efforts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:38 PM on 07/15/2008

What are the Democratic strategists talking about? Obama is over-performing in state polls, and actually doing quite well in the 3 most recent national polls from WaPo, Quinnipiac, and NYT/CBS.

I think the campaign is working diligently to cohere its team. Those strategists should know that that doesn't happen overnight. Obama is now doing things (i.e., campaign logistics like incorporating new people & defining roles, etc.) that McCain has had months to do. In fact, considering that Obama is polling ahead of McCain without firing on all "four cylinders" (not sure what that's about, Ms. Brazile), I would think that he's doing just fine. He has a good advance team. His team has done well (much better than McCain) at driving a specific message of the day and/or week. The Obama campaign could be more aggressive in confronting the McCain campaign (and the media) on false charges, as well as being more assertive in going on the offense against McCain, but I think they're working to address that with a recent restructuring of their communications team. At this point, their organization seems to far surpass McCain's, and I think that will only improve as the restructuring dust settles.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:38 PM on 07/15/2008
- Sioen I'm a Fan of Sioen 17 fans permalink
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Castellanos is conflating the "anyone-but-the-Democrat" vote with support for McCain. McCain's not-so-horrible showing isn't because of anything his campaign has done -- it's that there's a group of Republicans out there who haven't been swayed to Obama yet. Some more campaigning and I'm betting they will.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:32 PM on 07/15/2008

Relax friend,school is out right now,come September the gap will widen to about 30 points.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 AM on 07/16/2008

OK the smart people have it all figured out. . .not!

We are in the midst of a historical moment where our ship of state is on the verge of taking a new tact. Despite the uncertainty, I feel surprisingly optimistic.

Sen. Obama is a game changer. Sure, the problems we face will not disappear on 1/21/09. But at least we have a fighting chance to take a serious stab at re-inventing ourselves as the kind of nation to be proud of.

Oh. And for those of you super-patriots who were, are and for-ever-more proud of America. Torturing a 15 year old. Really? That's a legacy to be proud of.

America. love it or leave it? Kiss my ----.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:23 PM on 07/15/2008
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The only reason it is so close is because the media (except for maybe the Huffington) have refused to adequately cover McCain's lies, missteps, and flip flops. AND, they've done little to nothing to quell the completely untrue rumors about Obama.

I will agree, however, that Obama has slumped in my mind a bit, but I have faith that it's all part of a larger plan to sweep in and take McCain this Winter. Just have faith people, that's all we can do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 PM on 07/15/2008
- awcbuddy8 I'm a Fan of awcbuddy8 8 fans permalink

The only reason John McCain is president was to see McCain/Obama part deux in 2012!!!!

I can already see the excuses.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:53 PM on 07/15/2008
- GLaB I'm a Fan of GLaB 3 fans permalink

Winter?!? The election will be over by winter.

I hope he's got a better secret plan than that!

(now it may seem harsh to pick on you over something that trivial, but it's all part of my dedicated effort to adequately cover every little mispoken word)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 AM on 07/16/2008
- wanj I'm a Fan of wanj 7 fans permalink

Wow! Can you forward this to the Obama camp please? Now, I'm one of those very hardcore dems that are not easily swayed by the news or Senate vote of the day but I agree on everything in regards to this article... Not even religious crap O is vowing to continue can shake this vote, FISA, etc can sway me... BUT, I think I'm not the reason he won this nomination. It's the people who fully believe in his FISA bill vote, his "get us out of" Iraq stance, and us hardcore dems that will help him get not get into the WH.

I still watch those IA and NH speeches that he gave a while back.... They totally inspire me!
So, Obama, stop playing it safe mister with this whole "common denominator" appeal... Keep your fans excited. The same way you did in that "Yes We Can" speech.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:20 PM on 07/15/2008

McCain is doing as well as he is primarily because the media downplays his gaffes, his inconsistent positions, his stupid statements and his foolish, inappropriate comments and those of his advisers and takes his baseless bull filled "plans" as truth while detailing every non-scandal and non flip flop of Obama's.

The media - McCain's base.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:14 PM on 07/15/2008
- gintheb I'm a Fan of gintheb 8 fans permalink

He does everything you say, but he makes some d@mn good barbecue.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:47 PM on 07/15/2008

True, that. And don't forget the white skin. So much rides on his white skin and quiet wife.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 PM on 07/16/2008
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