US abandons Afghan outpost where 9 troops died

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FISNIK ABRASHI | July 16, 2008 02:34 PM EST | AP

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U.S. soldiers walk to pass a makeshift bridge on a patrol in Parun, the capital of Nuristan province, east of Kabul, Afghanistan, on Saturday, July 12, 2008. An insurgent raid that penetrated an American outpost in eastern Afghanistan, killing nine soldiers, has deepened doubts about the U.S. military's effort to contain Islamic militants and keep locals on its side. (AP Photo)

KABUL, Afghanistan — U.S. troops abandoned a remote outpost in eastern Afghanistan where militants killed nine of their comrades this week, officials said Wednesday, in another sign of the struggle facing foreign and Afghan security forces strung out along the mountainous border.

Elsewhere in the frontier region, NATO launched artillery and helicopter strikes in Pakistan after coming under insurgent rocket fire, officials said.

The violence is another indication of the growing strength of the Taliban-led insurgency, especially in Afghanistan's east, where the outpost near the village of Wanat was breached by militants on Sunday. Nine Americans were killed in the deadliest incident for U.S. forces in three years.

On Tuesday, the insurgents drove out the handful of police left behind to defend government offices in the village, but 50 more officers were deployed Wednesday and soon regained control, senior provincial police official Ghoolam Farouq said.

The militants retreated into the mountains, and village elders negotiated a truce between the two sides, Farouq said.

Omar Sami, spokesman for the Nuristan provincial governor, said American and Afghan soldiers left the base Tuesday.

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NATO confirmed that the post, which lies amid precipitous mountains close to the Pakistan border, had been vacated while insisting that international and Afghan troops will "retain a strong presence in that area with patrolling and other means."

In Washington, Pentagon leaders said Wednesday they are looking for ways to send additional troops to Afghanistan this year, signaling an acceleration in what had been plans to shift forces there no earlier than next year.

"I think that we are clearly working very hard to see if there are opportunities to send additional forces sooner rather than later," Defense Secretary Robert Gates told Pentagon reporters. But, he added that no final decisions or recommendations have been made.

Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who recently returned from meetings with commanders in Afghanistan, said they clearly want more troops.

"It's a tougher fight, it's a more complex fight, and they need more troops to have the long-term impact that we all want to have there," said Mullen, who also met last week with Pakistani leaders.

The Pentagon has been wrestling with how to provide what they say is a much needed military buildup in Afghanistan, while they still have 150,000 troops in Iraq.

The retreat from the eastern outpost will be considered a victory by the insurgents, and comes after a spate of security setbacks for President Hamid Karzai's government, including a spectacular Taliban jail break in the southern Kandahar province in June that freed about 900 inmates, and a spike in attacks alongside the border with Pakistan.

In response, Karzai has stepped up his rhetoric against neighboring Pakistan, whose lawless tribal areas adjacent to Afghanistan serve as sanctuaries for al-Qaida and other militants.

Karzai blames the attacks _ including suicide bombings and cross-border raids _ on Pakistan's intelligence service, alleging they are behind the insurgency in Afghanistan. Pakistan denies the charge saying Karzai is trying to create "an artificial crisis" to deflect attention from his own failings.

The accusations have pitched relations between these key U.S. allies to their lowest point since U.S. invasion of Afghanistan in 2001.

In other violence reported Wednesday, the U.S.-led coalition said eight civilians were killed when it called in airstrikes after one of its patrols came under attack in the country's west. The issue of civilian casualties has caused friction between the Afghan government and U.S. and NATO troops, and has weakened the popularity of the Western-backed Karzai.

In a separate statement, the coalition said another airstrike killed several militants after they attacked a joint U.S. and Afghan patrol in Kandahar province's Shah Wali district on Tuesday.

The governor of Kandahar said eight militants were killed during an operation in the southern province's Khakrez district in the past two days. A regional Taliban commander, Mullah Mahmoud, who controlled about 250 fighters, was among those killed, a NATO statement said.

__

Associated Press writers Amir Shah in Kabul and Noor Khan in Kandahar and Lolita C. Baldor in Washington contributed to this report.

 
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Only a moron refuses to withdraw from an indefensible position or one where he takes unacceptable casualties for no purpose.

Not only is this true in a guerilla war - such as Afghanistan - but as well in conventional war.

Holding the ground whatever the cost is not the stuff of which military genius is made..

Not von Paulus at Stalingrad.

Nor DeCastries at DBP.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 AM on 07/17/2008

ONE SENTENCE ROG49......"....BUSH SHOULD HAVE 'STAYED THE COURSE' IN AFGHANISTAN INSTEAD OF 'INVADING' IRAQ!!! REALLY DUMB HAPPENING..........WE AMERICAN CITIZENS WERE REALLY 'FOOLED' BY THIS GD ADMINISTRATION!!!!!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:19 AM on 07/17/2008
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This is a shame. We can't even beat some guys hiding in the hills using out of date weapons that don't even have body armor. What advantage do they have over our military? One thing, they have pride. It doesn't matter if we have more troops or not they will never give up. Our government doesn't have the resolve to handle these guys I believe this why we dropped the ball in Afganistan. I think they quickly realized the difficulties there and opted to go after the easier target IRAQ.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:46 AM on 07/17/2008
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There will be an unlimited supply of Taliban and others like them as long as we pursue our crazy Mideast policy. They can absorb very heavy casualties.

There were a few million Vietnamese. There are a billion Muslims.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:54 AM on 07/17/2008

They are beaten. That is why they are hiding in the hills. I guess their pride dictates that they must hide wherever they can, wait until their opponent leaves and then come down to villages and announce they are the boss, at least until we return.

Some victory for them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:41 PM on 07/17/2008
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Haven't you read Mao's book on guerilla warfare?

"When they advance, we retreat"
"When they rest, we harass"
"When they retreat, we advance"

Any smart guerilla knows better than to take on a conventional power in a straight up fight. Did you really expect them to line up and fight a set-piece battle on an open battlefield?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 AM on 07/18/2008

we will lose both wars

count on it

illegal wars have a way fo being lost

ie vietnam

we are the invaders it is thier home thier people

they can wait us out

drain our treasue what am I saying the banks are doing that

aint capitalism great

we borrow from communists, socialists, and kings and still trout capitalism as the best economic system in the world

paradigm paralysis again

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 AM on 07/17/2008

So, what system is better than capitalism?

What happens if both wars are won? Thoughts on that?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:43 PM on 07/17/2008
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If both wars are won, we'll still be broke.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 AM on 07/18/2008

I see a massive outbreak here of "Cranial Rectal Inversion Syndrome". There is only one cure for this horrible disease. It is painful for patients, but it is the only way.

One must engage themself in the treatment totally. Mind and Soul must be completely dedicated to curing ones self.

Politics must be completely discarded and replaced by common sense for the treatment to work.

Good luck to those who choose to be healfhy.

For the cure, just go to http://www.djgoski.com

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 AM on 07/17/2008

Good luck with that therapy. Thank you for the link. Well done.

For therapy to work, one must first realize some form of treatment is needed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:49 AM on 07/17/2008

OUR MILITARY MADE OUT TO BE 'EVIL'?? WHERE IN THE WORLD HAS THIS PRESENT ADMINISTRATION 'EVER' USED COMMON SENSE? IT SEEMS TO ME THEY HAVE CONSTANTLY GONE OFF "HALF COCKED" OR WITH "PLAYED LIES" AND MACHINATIONS. WOW, MEATBALL.....I THINK YOU'D BETTER "THINK AGAIN"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:23 AM on 07/17/2008
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The fact that we're even having this conversation 6+ years after the invasion pretty much proves it's a mess.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:46 PM on 07/16/2008

And we will lose this one too.....it's what the Military does......it hasn't a clue how to 'win' any of the 'wars' we start....and eventually lose.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 PM on 07/16/2008

This one too? Which war are you referring to? The war on poverty? illiteracy? Certainly you are not talking about Iraq are you? Last time I looked at the news, Iraq had assumed control of the 10th of 18 provinces. Guess that means we lost.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 PM on 07/16/2008
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We only lost $2 trillion from the treasury. That's a whole lot of money just to take out a guy we already had well contained.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:39 PM on 07/16/2008

Sorry pal. Wrong The war was won in 2001. Every objective was met. This is 7 years later. Every year the Taliban do the same thing. Every year a few hundred less return with nothing to show for it. How many hundreds of Taliban died in this little raid? For what?

By the way since you have so much invested in defeat, have you read history? America did what no power had ever done in Afghanistan.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 AM on 07/17/2008

Every objective was met?.They captured Bin Laden? Must have missed that.....YIPPEEEE.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:42 AM on 07/17/2008

I guess your definition of won is illusive. When will the likes of you realize that the US has not won in this war or the invasion. All that's happened is to start something without finishing it at a tremendous lost of lives, limbs, family stability, mental stress and strain, US standing globally and money. Maybe if we had done what we were suppose to do originally then we wouldn't be in this mess now by having our military bounce from place to place. BTW I ran across a new bit of information on another site showing that once again MSM fail to do there job. While Sen. Mcc is going around touting his ability to win wars, did you know that on Meet The Press on Oct.21, 2001 that he said " that he thought that the war in Afghanistan should be settled first before going into Iraq." And he use to think that it was important to have everything in Afghanistan settled firs, Osama bin Laden caught, and the Taliban regime extinguished. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/7/17/63046/6692/392/552866, Entitled The Huge McC Blunder No One Knows ....Yet

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:18 AM on 07/17/2008

PROGRESS??? DO YOU REALLY THINK THE TALIBAN ETC. ARE FEWER IN NUMBER NOW? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....GET WISE AND GET AN EDUCATION.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 AM on 07/17/2008

Maybe the Pentagon can show Russia a different way to lose the Afghan war.

Only now it begins to look like this is growing into the Pakistan war, as Sam Nunn has suggested.

So where do the wars end? Do we just keep attacking everyone who hates us?

What happens when everyone we attack gets together and starts retaliating?

Where will Bring Em On Bush be then? What kind of executive privilege will they declare then?

As a society we have to stop what we have been doing as a nation.

Most of the people who have suffered by our actions in the world, the last several decades, even over the past century, from all through Latin America, to Vietnam, Iraq, have been simple people, who wanted to raise families, vegetables, and livestock.

As our fortunes as a nation take a turn downward, and threaten to fail, we should not be picking excess fights with foreign powers, increasing further the insecurity of all.

Seven years later, the original enemy is still lose in the mountains of Pakistan.

Is he going in? Is that why he is FINALLY TALKING TO IRAN?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:55 PM on 07/16/2008

"have been simple people, who wanted to raise families, vegetables, and livestock."

These are opium growers.

The suppression of opium growing is the major forcer of resistance by the so-designated "Taliban."

And "the world" is behind the USA this rare time.

Iran too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 PM on 07/16/2008

GREAT POST, ISN'T IT TOO BAD THAT OUR 'PRESIDENT AND HIS MINIONS' DON'T HAVE THE INTELLIGENCE OR COMMON SENSE TO SEE WHAT THEY HAVE "CREATED" IN THE MIDDLE EAST.........THINGS ARE WORSE THAN THEY'VE EVER BEEN........TAKE IT FROM A WOMAN WHO HAS LIVED ALMOST A CENTURY AND THROUGHT SEVERAL WARS....................

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 AM on 07/17/2008
- CC1 I'm a Fan of CC1 permalink

Dead American troops. I'm sure somewhere that troll USAisEVIL is laughing....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:27 PM on 07/16/2008

Is this out post called Hamburger Hill?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:25 PM on 07/16/2008
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Dien Bien Phu

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:46 PM on 07/16/2008

Only a historical ignoramus would offer that as an analogy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:55 AM on 07/17/2008

Difference being the attackers didn't take this hill. Minor detail.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:54 PM on 07/16/2008
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This is our first defeat in all the battles in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is a huge problem.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:02 PM on 07/16/2008

Battles?
When the force is so overwhelming in terms of weapons of mass destruction (levied on Iraq and Afganistan by the US), it is difficult to comprehend what you mean by defeat. The US lost when we Bombed them with cluster bombs, chemical weapons, and generally shocked and awed them into pieces.
War is not about winning or loosing - its about making money and taking life and turning it into dust.
NATO is doing it now in Afganistan and Pakistan with US direction and it's pissing off our puppet oil man in Afganistan named Karzai.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:19 PM on 07/16/2008

Defeat? The insurgents were beat back. Pretty soundly, at that. It was later that the military withdrew from that outpost, not during the fight.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:56 PM on 07/16/2008
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I'd say the fact that they can even put together that kind of force 7 years after we've occupied the country is telling.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 AM on 07/18/2008

Nope. Stratfor the intelligence people that are world class independents, concluded we are not winning in Afghanistan for several reasons. We already won the war, bu this insurgency has had some success in places.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:55 AM on 07/17/2008

This once again proves that Obama was right about Afghanistan being the central front on the so called WOT and not Iraq. Even though the MSM continues to claim that McCain's area of experience is foreign policy it is Obama who has always shown good judgment. McCain has consistently shown bad judgment on both wars. Obama was right about the Iraq war and is right about this forgotten war as well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:00 PM on 07/16/2008

So, what are the 150,000 troops in Iraq fighting?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:16 PM on 07/16/2008

They are certainly not fighting against the people who attacked us on 9-11 in Iraq. Iraq has nothing to do with either OBL or 9-11. Saddam had nothing to do with either as well. We were lied into this war. OBL in case you don't know is hiding on the Afghanistan/Pakistan border. Bush went into Iraq out of greed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:33 AM on 07/17/2008

They are fighting the invaders, the Americans and Americas' allies. And they will continue to fight year after year after year after year for their land as the Indians of America fought the long slow death, the poisoned blankets given them to ward off the fierce winters found their bodies also among the stones.

The Afgans know their path to victory is the long stay.

Rolf Krogsæther

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:00 PM on 07/16/2008

Then they'll all have to die. And their fight is far less noble than that of the American Indian.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:17 PM on 07/16/2008
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We're not going to outlast them. You see, they live there. We'll run out of money long before they're all dead.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 AM on 07/18/2008

Check the strength on your meds. The Afghans have fought everyone for every reason, and each other long before anyone cared about the place. The intervening years from 2001 until now is the longest sort of peace they have had in the last 40years.

The Afghans could care less about a path to victory. They already have it. Their shops are open, women can attend school and no one is subjected to Sharia law in many parts of the country. So, what pray tell are the Afghan people waiting for?

Nice try with the Indian analogy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:03 AM on 07/17/2008

The attack on the base was a failure. Insurgents entered the base, but were beaten back out of the base when all was said and done. Our boys won that fight, and for the life of me I can't see why (militarily) we left that outpost. Unless it's to do a Vietnam-era "leave it now and bomb it/take it back later", which still doesn't make sense.

Condolences to the soldiers of the following families:

1LT Jonathan Brostrom
SGT Israel Garcia
SPC Matthew Phillips
SPC Pruitt Rainey
SPC Jonathan Ayers
SPC Jason Bogar
SPC Sergio Abad
SPC Jason Hovater
SPC Gunnar Zwilling

Rest in peace. Best wishes to the 14 wounded as well, and here's hoping to full and speedy recoveries.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:57 PM on 07/16/2008

Well said. May they rest in peace.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:05 AM on 07/17/2008

What a strange "News" article. Few specifics.
"U.S. troops abandoned a remote outpost in eastern Afghanistan where militants killed nine of their comrades."..."Elsewhere in the frontier region, NATO launched artillery and helicopter strikes in Pakistan after coming under insurgent rocket fire, officials said." ..."The issue of civilian casualties has caused friction between the Afghan government and U.S. and NATO troops, and has weakened the popularity of the Western-backed Karzai....
The violence is ..."indication of the growing strength of the Taliban-led insurgency"...
Senior provincial police official Ghoolam Farouq said the militants retreated into the mountains" and "village elders negotiated a truce between the two sides."...
Karzai blames the attacks on Pakistan's intelligence service, alleging they are behind the insurgency in Afghanistan".

Would somone explain any logic about what the hell is going on! The Russians lost 20,000 troops before leaving the US backed Freedom Fighters to run Afganistan. Senior US Officials laughed at the arrogance of Russia's futile efforts to control a counrty with 47 languages and cultures. Yet "Pentagon leaders said Wednesday they are looking for ways to send additional troops to Afghanistan this year."

ps Wasn't it Saudi's and Pakistani's who attacked the World Trade Center on 911?
US out of Aganistan!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:19 PM on 07/16/2008

How come a Kipling quote get's 86'd?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:59 PM on 07/16/2008
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