Bush Agrees To "General Time Horizon" For Troop Reductions

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TERENCE HUNT | July 18, 2008 09:15 PM EST | AP

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President Bush pauses as he speaks with reporters after arriving at Ellington Field Friday, July 18, 2008 in Houston. (AP Photo/Evan Vucci)

WASHINGTON — President Bush and Iraq's prime minister have agreed to set a "general time horizon" for bringing more U.S. troops home from the war, a dramatic shift from the administration's once-ironclad unwillingness to talk about any kind of deadline or timetable.

The announcement Friday put Bush in the position of offering to talk with Iraqi leaders about a politically charged issue that he adamantly has refused to discuss with the Democratic-led Congress at home. It also could complicate the presidential campaign arguments of Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama who have staked out starkly opposite stands about the unpopular war.

What's changed? The sharp reduction in violence in Iraq _ to the lowest level in four years _ has made the country's leaders increasingly confident and more assertive about its sovereignty, giving rise to demands for a specific plan for American forces to leave.

Iraq has leverage because the White House is struggling to salvage negotiations for a long-term agreement covering U.S. military operations there. The White House said its goal is to conclude that deal by the end of this month.

Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki talked about the stalled negotiations during a secure video conference on Thursday, agreeing "on a common way forward to conclude these negotiations as soon as possible," a White House statement said.

The two leaders agreed that improvements in security should allow for the negotiations "to include a general time horizon for meeting aspirational goals, such as the resumption of Iraqi security control in their cities and provinces and the further reduction of U.S. combat forces from Iraq," the White House said.

Bush repeatedly has vetoed legislation approved by Congress setting deadlines for American troop cutbacks.

Friday's White House statement was intentionally vague and did not specify what kind of timelines were envisioned. That allows Iraqi officials, who are facing elections in the fall, to argue they are not beholden to Washington or willing to tolerate a permanent military presence in Iraq. For Bush, it points the way toward a legal framework for keeping American troops in Iraq after a U.N. mandate expires on Dec. 31.

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"The agreement will look at goal dates for transition of responsibilities and missions," said Gordon Johndroe, spokesman for Bush's National Security Council. "The focus is on the Iraqi assumption of missions, not on what troop levels will be."

As for the campaign to elect a new commander in chief, McCain firmly opposes any withdrawal timetable while Obama pledges to pull out combat troops within 16 months. By talking about a "time horizon," Bush appeared at odds with McCain and could make his own GOP administration a tougher target for Obama's anti-war barbs.

McCain issued a statement saying, "Progress between the United States and Iraq on a time horizon for American troop presence is further evidence that the surge has succeeded. ... If we had followed Sen. Obama's policy, Iraq would have descended into chaos, American casualties would be far higher, and the region would be destabilized."

However, Ben Rose, a senior adviser to Obama, said, "It's another indication that the administration is moving toward ... Sen. Obama's position on negotiating the removal of our forces as part of our ongoing discussions with the Iraqi government."

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Bush wasn't going far enough. "After rejecting 18 months of attempts by the Democratic majority in Congress to adopt redeployment timetables, the president now proposes a vague general time horizon that falls far short of a commitment to ending our involvement in Iraq," she said.

Democratic Rep. William Delahunt of Massachusetts, who has led House hearings on the planned agreement with Iraq, said the "time horizon" cited by the White House was "very vague and nebulous." He also said the agreement taking shape seemed "far less grandiose than what was initially articulated."

Iraq has proposed requiring U.S. forces to fully withdraw five years after the Iraqis take the lead on security nationwide _ though that condition could take years to meet. Iraq's national security adviser, Mouwaffak al-Rubaie, said this month that Baghdad would not accept any security deal unless it contained specific dates for U.S. troop withdrawals.

So far, the United States has handed control of 10 of 18 provinces to Iraqi officials. "Obviously, if Iraqis are assuming more missions, then you need less American troops," Johndroe said.

The White House sought to make a distinction between talking with Iraqis about withdrawals and attempts by Congress to force cutbacks.

"I think it's important to remember that the discussions about timeline issues previously were from Democrats in Congress who wanted to arbitrarily retreat from Iraq without consideration of conditions on the ground," said White House deputy press secretary Scott Stanzel, who was traveling with Bush in Tucson, Ariz.

"All of the discussions that we have always had have been based on conditions on the ground and making progress in the country, and we are doing just that," Stanzel said. "We are making progress on the security situation. The number of attacks has dropped dramatically in recent months."

A major troop buildup ordered by Bush in January 2007 has ended. In recent days, the 3rd Infantry Division's 2nd Brigade, the last of the five additional combat brigades sent in last year, left the country. There are still 150,000 U.S. troops in Iraq _ as many as 15,000 more than before the buildup began.

Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said on Wednesday that he is likely to recommend further troop reductions this fall because security has improved.

WASHINGTON — President Bush and Iraq's prime minister have agreed to set a "general time horizon" for bringing more U.S. troops home from the war, a dramatic shift from the administration's once...
WASHINGTON — President Bush and Iraq's prime minister have agreed to set a "general time horizon" for bringing more U.S. troops home from the war, a dramatic shift from the administration's once...
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I posted this earlier, but thought it worthwhile to post again....

In truth, we will probably spend something pretty close to the value of the Iraqui oil reserves conducting the war there. The USGS estimates proven reserves in Iraq to be 78 billion barrels and estimate undiscovered reserves at 14 billion barrels. At the price of oil when we invaded of $23.65 (average of may weekly prices for 2003), the value of the proven and potential reserves would be $2.18 trillion.

The war's total cost, according to an AP article: "Beyond 2008, working with "best-case" and "realistic-moderate" scenarios, they project the Iraq and Afghan wars, including long-term U.S. military occupations of those countries, will cost the U.S. budget between $1.7 trillion and $2.7 trillion " or more " by 2017. Interest on money borrowed to pay those costs could alone add $816 billion to that bottom line, they say."

Add the cost of lives lost and people displaced and it is clear we are striking a very poor 'bargain'.

Never let a re pu ke manage your budget.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:50 PM on 07/18/2008

a2p : Good point.

About five years ago I read an article by a journalist that was overflying the Kuwait staging areas prior to the start of the debacle. His comment, after viewing the miles of equiptment and Troops was a simple " wouldn't it just be cheaper to pay them for it " ?


-ralph

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:07 PM on 07/18/2008

Rather prescient on the journalist's part, considering how the pols minimized the expectations of cost.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:08 PM on 07/18/2008
- indypete I'm a Fan of indypete 173 fans permalink
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Buying is evidently cheaper than stealing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:09 PM on 07/18/2008
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So for the third time in less than a week Boosh or McBush are moving towards 0bama's ideas on foreign policy.

-First, McBush said Afghanistan did not need more troops back in February. Now McBush flip flops and says the military needs to send 3 more brigades in Afghanistan in a desperate attempt to one up 0bama by one brigade, even though McCain does not know where the military is going to get those extra troops.

-Second, Boosh and McBush called 0bama an appeaser for wanting to have direct talks with Iran and as the New York Times reports today the Boosh administration is sending envoys to have direct talks with Iran.

-Third, 0bama has said we need timetables to leave Iraq and Maliki agreed, now McBush wants "horizons" to leave Iraq.

Now who is the foreign policy expert? Look I'm not naive I know 0bama's foreign policy team has influenced his foreign policy ideas since he's been running for president, but that's one reason liberals need to get over it an support 0bama. You don't just vote for the president you vote for the people they will bring into the administration. McBush like Boosh will fill the administration with lobbyists and criminals like Boosh did, while 0bama will fill his administration with professional people who really care about this country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:47 PM on 07/18/2008
- bosshogg I'm a Fan of bosshogg 3 fans permalink
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wow bush ad. been stealing obama's ideas all week..............................

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:44 PM on 07/18/2008

I totally agree. It's like OBAMA is writing the new foreign policy before he gets in office; first the Iraqi's are calling for a timeline White House spin is "horizon". And now talks with Iran. You got to love it he is being vindicated. And John McCain sounds shriller than ever. "Obama is putting out a plan before he talks to Gen.P, and visits Iraq blahblahblah. First, they want "details", "specifics" and when he starts putting them out now that the primary dust is settled, they cry blahblahblah. Let's see if Bush opens up the same health care that members of congress has .. I think another OBAMA idea.


OBAMA '08

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:38 PM on 07/18/2008
- MsLiz I'm a Fan of MsLiz 116 fans permalink
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I used "general time horizon" in an anagram generator, and here are some of the better results:

A Leering Hormone Zit
A Lozenge Timer Rhino
A Gentle Mire Horizon
A Hemline Zeroing Rot
A Heroine Mongrel Zit
A Neither Loner Gizmo
A Zeroing Mother Line
A Zinger Hormone Lite
A Geezer Hilt Inn Room
A Melee Groin Horn Zit
A Greenhorn Me Oil Zit

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:39 PM on 07/18/2008

LOL! I vote for 'A Zeroing Mother Line" since all of Bab's spawn were defective.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:44 PM on 07/18/2008

EB : ROTFLMFAO !!

( On that note... I'm going to pour myself a scotch. )


-ralph

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:09 PM on 07/18/2008
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Nice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:50 PM on 07/18/2008
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Great addition, I like "A Geezer Hilt Inn Room"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:51 PM on 07/18/2008
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That one made me think of old JonnyMac.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:54 PM on 07/18/2008

Liz : " A melee Groin Horn Zit " ??

( Yeesh... ) Sounds catchy.


-ralph

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:53 PM on 07/18/2008
- GerryS I'm a Fan of GerryS 58 fans permalink
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MsLiz, very inventive! LOL! THX-

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:27 PM on 07/18/2008

Oh ! Noo... This is probably what he was ' thinking ' !

He was talking about this " Horizon " !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQwJhRmg4OM


-ralph

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:38 PM on 07/18/2008

Woops... My bad !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQwJhRmg40M

Sorry about that...


-ralph

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:40 PM on 07/18/2008
- brijit I'm a Fan of brijit 7 fans permalink
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"General time horizon?" Why does so much of what these people say sound like it was translated from Etruscan or something? On second thought, after reading the article more closely, I realize that this is being said by the White House. Since this is being said by a building, I have to cut it some slack. Although I realize that this is the era of The Talking Building (real people never say anything any more, it's just the White House, the Pentagon, etc.) and these buildings have had a lot of experience making statements, you can't really expect them to be as coherent as, say, real people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:37 PM on 07/18/2008

I once knew a General time horizon. He was always late to the mess hall.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:01 PM on 07/18/2008
- frappe I'm a Fan of frappe 212 fans permalink
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General "Time Horizon"? Are you serious? How laughable. What nonsense. It's a timetable. Just say it.

Speaking of "Horizon", the C-heney/B-ush's presidency reminds me of "Event Horizon", that sci-fi horror movie where a portal to hell was inadvertently opened. And it's felt like hell ever since those two stole our election in 2000.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:34 PM on 07/18/2008
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It's the possibility of the consideration of the thought of the idea of something that might be considered a timetable.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:38 PM on 07/18/2008

LOL! Possibly brilliant double speak half of the time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:46 PM on 07/18/2008

Junior barking at the setting sun...and frustrated that he can't bite it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:38 PM on 07/18/2008

frappe : I was also reminded of precisely the same flick !

( Great minds... )


-ralph

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:55 PM on 07/18/2008
- frappe I'm a Fan of frappe 212 fans permalink
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When I heard the term "Time Horizon", I immediately thought of that movie and felt it important to somehow integrate it into this discussion :))

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:41 AM on 07/19/2008
- LaFeminazi I'm a Fan of LaFeminazi 236 fans permalink
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A chaleyre hu f f y

C U 2 morrow.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:31 PM on 07/18/2008

Nighty, night, Femi.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:35 PM on 07/18/2008

G' Night Femi.


-ralph

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:41 PM on 07/18/2008
- maxdenn I'm a Fan of maxdenn 165 fans permalink

It should be clear by now that our prez is basically an idiot. And the same holds true for the current GOP presidential nominee.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:30 PM on 07/18/2008

Bush can fool some of the people all of the time

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:28 PM on 07/18/2008
- maxdenn I'm a Fan of maxdenn 165 fans permalink

"Bush agrees..." Don't you just love it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:27 PM on 07/18/2008
- KOisGod I'm a Fan of KOisGod 347 fans permalink
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Oh

I say we give bush the summer off

Its HARD WORK bringing an end to civilization

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:26 PM on 07/18/2008
- lisakaz2 I'm a Fan of lisakaz2 115 fans permalink
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Is this anything more than Boo$hit playing out the clock? What he says is expedient only after all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:24 PM on 07/18/2008

Playing out the clock and trying to improve Magoo's chances...Hey, look at us, we're adopting the plan that 0 said we should adopt!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:28 PM on 07/18/2008
- Mykal I'm a Fan of Mykal 2 fans permalink

Iraqis do not want U.S. troops in their country any more than Americans want Iraqi troops in our country (except to remove bush from office since our Legislative branch refuses to do so).

Removal of a corrupt Iraqi Executive Branch for a removal of a corrupt U.S. Executive Branch only seems fair.

.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:23 PM on 07/18/2008

I saw that headline and had to do a double take, for I was certain that I typed in huffingtonpost.com, but it seemed like I was at theonion.com.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:22 PM on 07/18/2008

Welcome to bizarro world...did you notice that Mr. Spock is sporting a goatee?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:22 PM on 07/18/2008
- indypete I'm a Fan of indypete 173 fans permalink
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And Mr Sulu is gay.

Oops!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:24 PM on 07/18/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 643 fans permalink
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lost

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:30 PM on 07/18/2008
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