Texas Grand Jury Indicts Warren Jeffs And Polygamist Sect Members

ELDORADO, Texas — A Texas grand jury indicted polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs and four of his followers Tuesday on charges of felony sexual assault of a child. Another was indicted for failing to report child abuse.

Attorney General Greg Abbott said the five men are charged with one count of sexually assaulting girls under age 17. One of them, but not the 52-year-old Jeffs, faces an additional charge of bigamy.

Abbott said a sixth member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is charged with three counts of failure to report child abuse.

Jeffs, already convicted of being accomplice to rape in Utah and awaiting trial in Arizona on other charges related to underage marriages, is accused of assaulting a girl in Texas in January 2005, according to the indictment issued Tuesday.

"Our investigation in this matter is not concluded," said Abbott, whose office is acting as the special prosecutor in the case.

The grand jury in this tiny western Texas ranching community will continue consideration of other possible criminal charges on Aug. 21, according to a source who spoke on the condition of anonymity because proceedings of the panel are secret by law.

The identities of the Jeffs' followers who were indicted in addition to him were not released Tuesday because the indictments remain sealed until authorities can arrest the men.

"There will be an aggressive effort to apprehend them," Abbott said when asked whether he was concerned the men might have fled Texas.

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FLDS members have historically lived around the Arizona-Utah line and bought the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado about five years ago.

Willie Jessop, a church member and spokesman, said members would face the accusations.

"We're actually quite shocked. As soon as we know who they're looking for, we'll try to face it," Jessop told The Associated Press in an interview Tuesday. "We believe in our innocence."

He said that he didn't know who was indicted and that no one from law enforcement had tried to enter the ranch Tuesday evening.

The criminal indictments were issued after a separate child custody case in which more than 400 children were placed in foster care. The Texas Supreme Court ruled child welfare authorities overstepped in taking all the children from their parents even though many were infants and toddlers and the state failed to show any more than handful of teenage girls were abused or at risk.

The criminal charges came during the panel's second meeting on the case; it met in June without taking any action.

Abbott spent Tuesday in the small community building where the grand jury was meeting near the courthouse. Women and girls in prairie dresses, including a 16-year-old daughter of Jeffs, were escorted in and out, while lawyers and FLDS members crowded a bench in front of the courthouse.

Grand jury proceedings are supposed to be secret, but documents released as part of the separate child custody case involving the FLDS children have revealed some of the evidence collected by law enforcement during the weeklong raid that began April 3.

Among the hundreds of boxes of photos, papers and family Bibles, investigators found photos of Jeffs in intimate embraces and kissing several apparently underage girls.

A journal entry purportedly from Jeffs attached to a report by a child advocate indicates he married his daughter to a 34-year-old man the day after she turned 15. The girl turns 17 on Saturday and has denied being married, though the child advocate report indicates intimate notes between the girl and man were also found in the raid.

In addition to discussions of the girl's marriage, the Jeffs journal entry also indicates he blessed marriages of two other underage sect members to himself and another member.

FLDS leaders have consistently denied there was any abuse at the ranch and vowed not to sanction underage marriages.

Under Texas law, a girl younger than 17 cannot generally consent to sex with an adult. Bigamy is also illegal in Texas, and although FLDS plural marriages were not licensed by the state, the law contains a provision outlawing the act of "purporting to marry" more than one person.

The FLDS, which believes polygamy brings glory in heaven, is a breakaway sect of the mainstream Mormon church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which officially renounced polygamy more than a century ago.

Comments

[BlackWidowPilot]

PART III

Fringe? Your freerepublic.comm" isn't the right wing fringe of the American body politic? Yet you use their content as evidence to make your point.

Red, it is your perspective that is more than a little out of whack sitting out there with the "freepers." Then again, you have publicly stated that you support the use of torture by US Military and intelligence services personnel, so who a I kidding here?

If Senator Obama's campaign is demonstrating anything, it is the fact that most Americans are fed up with the aristocracy of the monied corporations that Jefferson spoke against, and their hollow platitudes delivered by the corporate press along with 24-hour appeals to ignorance and xenophobia.

Leland R. Erickson

[AzRealProgressive]

Leland you forgot to sign your post with citizen.

Now Red Rover posted that list because you challenged him to do so.The initial point was your opinion that the list of idiots was confined to the GOP. RedRover showed you there are two sides to that coin. You issued the challenge without any qualifiers, then after the challenge was met added your own in to mariginalize your loss.

[BlackWidowPilot]

Nice try at the spin, AZ, but the fact remains; Red's list is riddled with the *unindicted,* and is primarily populated by those Dinocrats caught committing crimes involving taking bribes and/or other financial misdeeds. Armchairsubversive.org makes no pretense about being comprehensive in presenting GOP criminality; it focuses solely on those GOP honchos indicted and/or convicted of sex crimes against children.

That you both repeatedly refer to this website - a list of actual criminal cases- as a "porn site" is more than a little disingenuous.

From where I'm sitting, I have sustained no loss as you put it, but let you hang yourselves with your own fanaticism.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[BlackWidowPilot]

Pardon my typo. The second paragraph should read as follows:

That you both repeatedly dismiss the sheer magnitude and implications of the content, while you AZ refer to this website - a list of actual criminal cases- as a "porn site" is more than a little disingenuous.

Clear things up for you, AZ?

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[BlackWidowPilot]

PART II

"Your personal response to my remark is your business but has little to do with my remark. I am not angry, I am merely stating the opinion of most vets, active duty and Americans in general."

OK, I'll bite; what percentage of Americans are opposed to the war in Iraq, and want our troops withdrawn? And as you assert that you personally know the opinions of most vets, how do the 81,000+ who have been stop-lossed feel about Cheney's little enterprise in Iraq? As you know "the opinion of most vets," you should be able to provide a substantive percentage breakdown of their opinions.

" You are a fringe, easily manipulated by politicians and quickly discarded. Obama's campaign is a good example."

Your xenophobia is showing, Red. As is your demonstrated propensity to be driven by emotion, rather than empirical evidence and reason. Your dislike (to put it mildly) of the Senator from Illinois is a matter of record on these fora.

END PART II

[Redrover666]

Don't know or care what percentage of Americans are for or against the war. As a soldier for thirty years, that was no concern of mine then or now. Civilians elect governments that decide whether to have wars or not. We don't take votes or run opinion polls in the military. We kill those, you stooges point us at.

Let's just concede I have few more days experience with VA hospitals, combat zones and the opinions of soldiers. Ya think.

Stop loss? That's the cost of doing business. Every soldier and nearly every civilian surely has heard the expression "in it for the duration". It might piss a soldier off, but not only does he get over it but gets a sick feeling when he reads that fools like you are trying to use it as a talking point.

Before you discuss the military, maybe you ought to demonstrate some willingness to accept anything at all that you are told by a soldier or Marine. Your refusal exposes your disdain and motivation. However, you have the liberal mantra down perfectly... "I honor your service BUT..."

I'm no longer inclined to provide you with any sort of evidence as there is no sort of evidence that is acceptable, that you will not dismiss out of hand or is capable of changing your mind on any far-left issue.

I have stated here previously that if he modifies his positions on several issues, primarily energy, I might vote for him.

[BlackWidowPilot]

What I've experienced in my lifetime, with whom and how and where, is not something I've bothered to share with either of you in any depth out of choice, and the recognition that trying to convince two people who believe that it is proper and fitting for Americans to engage in torture that there is more to the spectrum of the American body politic than "liberals" and "the party of Christian family values," is an exercise in utter futility.

Better I argue with a rock, telling it to transmute into gold, than catalogue my curriculum vitae concerning soldiers, soldiering, and the Art of War for your edification.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[BlackWidowPilot]

"Don't know or care what percentage of Americans are for or against the war"

Wow. With reasoning like that, how can I possibly argue?

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[AzRealProgressive]

Leland it is amazing how you identify yourself in your own posts so very clearly.

"As is your demonstrated propensity to be drivem by emotion, rather than empirical evidence and reason'.

Every time RedRover offers you empirical evidence, hard data and reason you offer emotion driven by ideology without any reason. It so sums you up. The man eats your lunch every time, yet you can't wait to come back for more. Your circular reasoning is plain.

You offer this reasoning without the experience of military service yourself. So Leland once again the man has challenged you, and you have been found wanting in facts, reason, and empirical data.

[BlackWidowPilot]

Red offers skewed data and his own deep-seated prejudices. He also now parrots back at me "Freudian Projection behavior" like a third grader. You seem obsessed with eating lunch.

I've been the first to admit a lack of direct military experience; hence why I've spent so much of my life actually listening to veterans of multiple wars to understand as much as a civilian can what the experience entails. That neither of you care to acknowledge this is moot; you both support torture, so in my book you've already lost my interest on any level beyond the clinical.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[BlackWidowPilot]

"redrover666" posted the following (presented in quotation marks). My responses follow:

"You most certainly are a burden. You provide nothing positive by way of civil dialog, service or participation. You inhabit the fringe, where sniping is considered a virtue."

Wow. You know me so well personally? you know my educational, work, and personal history to such depths? You know everything I've ever done, said, or thought. Impressive.

"You express sympathy for vets and active duty, merely as a preface to insult and denigrate the mission they have staked their lives to accomplish. You reject their enthusiasm and patriotism as misplace and misguided."

Utter guff and rubbish. But again, why should I argue with one who knows me ever so well to such an in-depth degree...?

END PART I

[AzRealProgressive]

If I may, Red has challenged you and won every time. Leland, when you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging.

[Redrover666]

I gotten to know you pretty well sparky.

You have a mind as closed as steel trap.
You think everyone who sees the world differently is stupid, less educated or has a mental problem.
You reject all evidence of any kind that doesn't conform to your world view.
You "HONOR" the military but refuse to accept their testimony or opinion.
You come to Huffpost to bitch about Republicans and have nothing good to say about your country.

I think that's about it. If I think of anything else, I'll get back to you.

[BlackWidowPilot]

"You think everyone who sees the world differently is stupid, less educated or has a mental problem.
You reject all evidence of any kind that doesn't conform to your world view."

Oh, nuts. LOL!! Red, you never fail to deliver.

"You "HONOR" the military but refuse to accept their testimony or opinion."

Utter nonsense; from whom do you think I've spent a better part of my natural life actually learning from?

"You come to Huffpost to bitch about Republicans and have nothing good to say about your country."

More silliness; if you'd bother to pay attention to what I've been posting here on HuffPo since it's launch, you'd know that neither is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth despite your sincere desire to vilify me as a "damn liberal" and dismiss anything I write out of hand.

END PART I

[BlackWidowPilot]

PART II

My criticism of an illegal war launched and sustained by over 900+ *documented* lies about WMDs and debunked claims of connections between Saddam Hussein and 9/11 is no more a secret than my ruthlessness in addressing hypocrisy when it's staring us in the face, nor my lack of tolerance for people who attempt to tar all Americans with a Bushevik brush, calling us all stupid for electing such an excuse for a world leader. I have demonstrated time and again zero tolerance for those who call all American soldiers and Marines "thugs" or "baby killers," damning them as the fools they are, as I have those foolish enough to buy the Bushevik propaganda that we're bringing democracy to Iraq, that indebtedness to the PRC is no problem, and that bankrupting our nation's treasury in such a fool's war is no big deal.

END PART II

[BlackWidowPilot]

PART IV

Yes, I know that soldiers kill people; it's their job. I've seen what modern weapons do to the human body BTW, including children. Armies are like that vicious dog; one does not unleash them lightly, capriciously, or cynically for profit., as once on the attack and until restrained they may do far more damage than the owner intended, with consequences to match.

"I think that's about it. If I think of anything else, I'll get back to you"

Of that, I have every confidence in you, Red.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[BlackWidowPilot]

PART III

If anyone has shut their mind it is IMHO you, Red, shut your eyes to the excesses of our government these past seven and a half years from Hell, shut your eyes to the bloody ineptitude of a war launched and sustained on so many lies, and the utter moral and financial bankruptcy of staying in that debacle that is benefiting no one save al Qaeda and some of Cheney's corporate cronies. For you, it's all about "victory" without concern for the why of it, for the cost of it, and for the blowback that will follow and our children and grandchildren will have to pick up the butcher's bill for.

I also know that if one has a vicious dog, and knows his nature, one does not unleash that hound upon someone on a whim, for reasons of mere anger or ego, least of all for personal profit. Should that dog slip loose and attack an innocent - even someone you dislike with good reason- there is still a responsibility to *pull that dog off* before any more harm is done.

END PART III

[BlackWidowPilot]

"redrover666" posted the following comment and URL as a rebuttal to the contents of armchairsubversive.orgg," and my challenge that he or his apparent allies "wdw101" and "AZRealProgressive" post a similar list of Democrats guilty of similar crimes as detailed on armchairsubversive.orgg:

"Hundreds of them sparky. Absolutely hundreds of democrat criminals. Enjoy."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2029856/posts

"redrover666" also made the following related comment:

"Actually sparky, of probably a couple of hundred names "unindicted arises 15 times."

I counted 152 entries on the list that break down as follows:

* 17 actually listed as "unindicted"

* 1 former member of the KKK (Robert Byrd)

* 2 neither indicted nor charged with a crime but not listed as 'unindicted"

* 1 city (Chicago, Illinois)

* 1 government agency (Internal Revenue Service)

* 1 winner of the Medal of Honor (Senator Daniel Inouye)

* 4 indicted and/or convicted of sex crimes against children

Of the remainder, the majority involve obtaining money through unlawful means, including bribery.

www.armchairsubversive.org lists seventy (70) members of the GOP including members of congress indicted and/or convicted of sex crimes against children. Nowhere does the site address crimes against property, bribery, etc.

The following is the parent site of "redrover666's" list of Democratic criminals:

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/*/index

I leave it up to our fellow HuffPo bloggers to reach their own conclusions as to the content of freerepublic.comm."

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[AzRealProgressive]

Good job Leland, citizen. A balanced post. And by an independent voter such as you claim to be. My compliments Leland. Both lists are interesting to read over.

[BlackWidowPilot]

So give me my damn biscuit.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[Redrover666]

Thank you, wingnut.

[Redrover666]

That leaves 125 criminals sparky.

[AzRealProgressive]

Sad to say the list may have a new member. JohnEdwards who news sources are saying was caught leaving his mistresses hotel room. She had a baby with her. The assumption is that he is the father. And his wife has cancer.

[BlackWidowPilot]

RedRover666:

"Water boarding? I see no reason to coddle them with water boarding."

wdw101:

"You repeat the waterboarding over and over like I should be ashamed of my view.....well guess what my views work very nicely for me....waterboarding is just a simple disagreement. You call it torture, I call it firm questioning....we disagree.....I'm ok with that....."

And the two of you call me a 'wingnut."

LOL!!

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

P.S. Warren Jeffs is a slime and deserves everything the judge can throw at him.

[AzRealProgressive]

If someone knew information about the potential killing of substantial human beings, I would use any means necessary to extract the information. And from his dog if I thought it would save lives.

My thanks would be knowing people were still alive. Yours would be self righteous smugness at the funeral.

[BlackWidowPilot]

And when your suspect lies to you to buy time for his cohorts, or told you what he thought you wanted to hear just to stop the torture - or both. Then what? Your intel is faulty, you've wasted valuable time better spent on actual interrogation techniques that really do produce results, and maybe even managed to set yourself up for all sorts of PR blowback that will only serve as a recruiting aid for your suspect's pals later on when the story of your use of torture finally leaks out.

And God help you if you've grabbed an innocent man.

I'll just have to conclude with some small relief that you are clearly *not* a law enforcement or intelligence community professional.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[AzRealProgressive]

Leland calling you a wingnut is wrong. Red Rover should have put more thought into it. Actually, you are much worse. He is being generous and over complimentary. I hope he reconsiders his opinion of you into something more suitable.

[BlackWidowPilot]

"wdw101" wrote:

"You repeat the waterboarding over and over like I should be ashamed of my view.....well guess what my views work very nicely for me....waterboarding is just a simple disagreement"

Yes, you should be ashamed of your stance in this matter; it is despicable, morally bankrupt, utterly indefensible.

Waterboarding is torture. Your capacity to rationalize is clearly of epic proportions. Shiro Ishii would have embraced you as a kindred spirit, and no doubt Stalin would have had plenty of gainful employment for one holding such an attitude in the NKVD.

As a Christian, as an American, and as a human being, I for one find your stance on this matter shameful to say the least.

It is not as you assert, a matter for 'simple disagreement."

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[wdw101]

corrected:

thank you.......I don't like your opinion, I think it puts the country at risk......Don't knock it until you try it.

[wdw101]

thank you.......I don't your opinion, I think it puts the country at risk......Don't knock it until you try it.

[wdw101]

those people were not sent by a country in uniform.....a combatant found on a battle field out of uniform is a spy and can be treated as such........

[AzRealProgressive]

Let me repeat something. I would happily waterboard these people, even if it meant saving only one life, and that life was yours Leland. No need to thank me, I am sure you will be calling me names, that is enough thanks for me.

[BlackWidowPilot]

OK. That make three (3) of you regulars in favor of *waterboarding* (torture).

So noted.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[Redrover666]

You, like most liberals, on most subjects are an armchair observer. You've got strong opinions on most subjects and strongly believe that those who don't go along with yoe are somehow either mentally defective or lacking in education. That sentiment jumps out of all of your comments. It's not a coincidence that far-left regimes, immediately round people up for "reeducation" and mental wards rapidly fill with their enemies. It's a common characteristic. You firmly believe that others are inferior.
Those in the middle east who are giving the west a hard time have been doing so for well over a thousand years and at one time controlled a significant chunk of Europe. They have openly proclaimed that they are going to rule the world, convert you to Islam or put you and your family to death. They think we are weak and lack the stones to fight back. They behead our people on YouTube to make a point. As Churchill once said "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." A contemporary of Ragnar Lothbrok quoting him shortly after the French king paid him 2.5 tons of gold and silver to go away said "never had he seen, lands so fertile and so rich, nor ever a people so cowardly." That's your legacy perhaps, but not mine.

[BlackWidowPilot]

PART II

"They have openly proclaimed that they are going to rule the world, convert you to Islam or put you and your family to death."

The 8jihadists* have made such declarations, yes. The majority of the millions of Muslims worldwide have not. BTW, Red, how many Muslims do you personally know? When is the last time you attended services in a mosque? Read a translation of the Quran lately? Or would that be "consorting with the enemy?"

" They think we are weak and lack the stones to fight back. They behead our people on YouTube to make a point."

"They." Yes, Red, I know for you it's all about "us and them."

END PART II

[BlackWidowPilot]

"You, like most liberals, on most subjects are an armchair observer. You've got strong opinions on most subjects and strongly believe that those who don't go along with yoe are somehow either mentally defective or lacking in education. That sentiment jumps out of all of your comments."

Red, under no circumstances should you ever for one split second believe that I could ever post anything credible. Period.

" It's not a coincidence that far-left regimes, immediately round people up for "reeducation" and mental wards rapidly fill with their enemies."

And the far-right regimes do not? Or do their enemies just disappear, "extraordinarily rendered" to God-knows-where all in the name of "liberty?"

" It's a common characteristic. You firmly believe that others are inferior."

Speak for yourself.

"Those in the middle east who are giving the west a hard time have been doing so for well over a thousand years and at one time controlled a significant chunk of Europe. "

Your grasp of history is tenuous at best. No surprises here for me, Red. Riddle me this: when was the last time an Islamic conquering army set foot in Europe? What is the actual air and sealift capability of the entire Muslim world? How many super carriers does Iran have?

END PART I

[BlackWidowPilot]

PART III

" As Churchill once said "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."

Churchill is oft-quoted by those trying to justify their own agendas. I am no appeaser, but neither am I in agreement with those who want all-out war with the entire Muslim world over the deeds and political aspirations of a distinct, violent minority whose hash is best settled by intelligence professionals.

"A contemporary of Ragnar Lothbrok quoting him shortly after the French king paid him 2.5 tons of gold and silver to go away said "never had he seen, lands so fertile and so rich, nor ever a people so cowardly." That's your legacy perhaps, but not mine."

My legacy is something you clearly choose not to comprehend. Much as you choose not to comprehend the concept that there are alternatives to "liberals" and "conservatives," and that as Americans our legacy does not have room for tolerating *torture,* whatever the rationalization used to justify it may be.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[helonias]

So you would think that god or Jesus would have helped him out by now.

If he was who he said he was.

[AzRealProgressive]

Follow your point completely through

[DontSpinMeBro]

First Amendment to the Constitution:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The least serious "seeming" of all the charges seems to be bigamy on Jeffs.
All the rest of the charges are couched in extremely sensationalist sexual terms. The way the state makes their case is intended to inflame and disgust and repulse you. They don't want you to look any deeper than that. They don't want you to look at the issues fairly. They don't want you to have any compassion for these people. They don't want you to know that this religion has been around since about 1830. This religion (practices) comes directly from the bible and the Book of Mormon which they hold holy. The men and women were all raised in this religion.
Marrying young is "cultural" for them. It is not abuse for them.

It is important to seperate holy cultural practices, from the "abuse" one hears about from the weirdo down the street who rapes 8 year old girls.

I too am completely uncomfortable with "Young marriage" and especially "coerced" marriage. However, America is better than a red faced, screaming lynch mob. These people are Americans, practicing a 200 year old religion. I wish for a fair review of their case.

[mimsnpips]

Where's the lynch mob? "Holy cultural practices", yeah right. Should another religion be allowed to sacrifice humans?
It is scientifically proven that a little girl is in no way ready for an adult relationship. And to put her in one is damaging her for life. The passage quoted on this thread "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones." is a direct quote from Jesus whom these people profess to believe in. Ya think having sex with and getting a 12 year old pregnant is "offending one of these little ones"?

If they had a case they would've taken it to the Supreme Court a long time ago.

[Gasparilla]

If those pictures of Warren Jeffs with his barely teenage "brides" doesn't repulse and disgust you, nothing would.

[Gakl]

The prior poster obviously knows nothing about the excessively bloody and brutal history that stains Mormonism's past. Those rosey colored glasses suit the poster just fine!

[helonias]

This idea about the universe did not sit well with the Catholic Church. They lured Giordano Bruno to Rome with the promise of a job, where he was immediately turned over to the Inquisition and charged with heresy.
Giordano Bruno spent the next eight years in chains in the Castel Sant’Angelo, where he was routinely tortured and interrogated until his trial. Despite this, he remained unrepentant, stating to his Catholic Church judge, Jesuit Cardinal Robert Bellarmine, "I neither ought to recant, nor will I." Even a death sentence handed down by the Catholic Church did not change his attitude as he defiantly told his accusers, "In pronouncing my sentence, your fear is greater than mine in hearing it."
Immediately after the death sentence was handed down, Giordano Bruno’s jaw was clamped shut with an iron gag, his tongue was pierced with an iron spike and another iron spike was driven into his palate. On February 19, 1600, he was driven through the streets of Rome, stripped of his clothes and burned at the stake.

[AzRealProgressive]

The inquisition in the dark ages relates to this somehow? What is your point?

[helonias]

YA notice its not older women and young boys.

Why?

[wdw101]

this brand of pedophiles don't like resistance.

[colleen2]

"It is important to seperate holy cultural practices, from the "abuse" one hears about from the weirdo down the street who rapes 8 year old girls."

Just because a bunch of religious wacks led by a monster decides that God wants them to 'marry' twelve 13 year olds does not mean that they are allowed to do so. This isn't a "holy cultural practice", it's institutionalized child abuse no matter what ribbons and bows you try to dress it up in.
They had a fair review of their case when Utah wanted to become a state and promised to give up this degenerate and disgusting practice. Apparently they lied about that too.

[Mort]

The Mormons didn't lie about that, Colleen. It was the FLDS who refused to obey the law. A lot of people confuse the two, but they're as different as night and day.

[Redrover666]

I agree with everything you said except the last sentence. I have Mormon friends and have lived in the southwest. Mormons condemn Jeffs and he disgusts them.

[booker52]

Had the Utah AG done more this clown would of already been behind bars and not be able to send this group to TX. As for his own daughter I am sure she has been taught from a very young age to lie.

[quadman]

Jeffs is already behind bars in Utah, convicted of accomplice to rape. As for the being taught to lie part, that may very well be true.

[helonias]

A Religious leader using his power for sex, money and control of the weak.

Whoda thunkit

[AzRealProgressive]

He is no more a religious leader than Jim Jones or Abbie Hoffman.

[JayZee]

Let's see, Jeffs got to "love" all the children and the taxpayers got to support their needs through welfare and let's not forget the "no-bid" millitary contract the taxpayers gave this cult of pedophilia.Sick.

[Redrover666]

Those atheist who have come here to join with Maher to denigrate those who believe in God are simply no better than those religious extremists in their condemnation of those who do not believe as they do. What I see here is merely the other end of the spectrum and comments that indicate an equally intolerant view of others. And not a flattering picture of the self professed superiority of thought and reason for the self proclaimed basis for atheism in general.
Those of you engaged in the ridicule seem to be no better human beings for it.

[Gasparilla]

Except it's the religious extremists who are always trying to make others conform to their beliefs. And don't tell me how religious people are discriminated against. You are allowed to worship as you please, as long as you aren't trying to force others to participate.

[AzRealProgressive]

I defy you to name one religious figure that demanded you conform to their beliefs, or you would be penalized. No one tells you to believe, that is your choice or not.

It is also your choice to listen, or not. You made your choice. Let others follow their choice without criticism, as they let you follow yours.

[helonias]

Which god?

[mimsnpips]

I'm in a good mood today. So.., RR666 you need better sentence structure to make your point.

[bobsmith]

In the past, I was a believer. My belief was a result of childhood indoctrination by well-meaning people who were also indoctrinated. But I was able to overcome it by opening my mind to the possibility (and once you truly open your mind, it all falls down like a house of cards).

See... belief and non-belief aren't really on equal footing as you suggest. One is irrational. One is rational. One is based upon reality as humans are capable of understanding it. One is based on "faith". Furthermore, many (if not most) non-believers were also believers at one point; the reverse is rare. Many non-believers understand your point of view having been there themselves. The reverse is seldom true. What you view as "superiority" is simply a grasp of the issue that believers cannot see.

[Redrover666]

What I view as a sense of "superiority" is the propensity of non-believers to go out of their way to harass, denigrate and belittle those of faith. Your own comment is one of condescension and intends to convey an awakening and enlightenment. I prefer to view those like Gandhi, Michaelangelo and Martin Luther King as enlightened. Those on the far left, who are almost always atheist, are almost always a dangerous threat to those of faith and when in positions of great power, create little of value but usually cause a great deal of harm.

[AzRealProgressive]

And atheism is not indoctrination? Non believers as yourself have usually lost sight through a loss of faith. And the refusal to believe that your educators and mentors don't know it all.

To presume that all has unfolded for us is a bit silly.

[cruisepuppy7452a]

Cults like these scare me. They re so bizarre, its just wierd. Thank god someone grew a brain and saw this stuff wasn't normal. Its sick. What they have done to these poor women is wrong. Its abusive. on so many levels. They will never be normal. I hope all of these guys get the payback they deserve

[SatinPanties]

Hopefully they'll put them in a cell with five "cellmates"...

[mimsnpips]

Yes, 'big' cellmates.

[markusmarkus]

Let's see how many "husbands" this creep has in prison.

[Democrab]

The man purported to be a prophet and using his religious stature as a means to an evil end should now begin to realize what his ego wouldn't let him see; that he's nothing but a common criminal, and the lowest form of outhouse scum. Oh, but we "outsiders" will never understand.

[AzRealProgressive]

He is not a religious figure. He is a person claiming to spread beliefs in the name of a religion.