Obama's Social Security Plan Vague On Details

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CHARLES BABINGTON | July 28, 2008 04:05 PM EST | AP

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Democratic presidential candidate, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., speaks during a forum at the UNITY '08 Convention in Chicago, Sunday, July 27, 2008. (AP Photo/Nam Y. Huh)

WASHINGTON — Barack Obama's bid to place a new Social Security tax on very high incomes is either a bold or foolhardy plan, depending on who critiques it. But its potential impact is almost impossible to gauge because he is providing few details on basic questions such as what the tax rate might be, what types of income would be taxed and how the taxpayers' benefits would be affected.

The Democratic presidential candidate says he would work with lawmakers from both parties to resolve such matters. Voters generally applaud bipartisan cooperation, but they apparently will go to the polls this fall with only a vague notion of what Obama has in mind.

Obama made headlines June 13 when he called for a Social Security payroll tax on incomes above $250,000 a year. Currently, the tax is levied only on the first $102,000 of each worker's income. That covers the entire salary of most Americans.

Obama would not apply the Social Security tax to annual incomes between $102,000 and $250,000, a move meant to avoid alienating several million upper-income voters. His proposed change would apply only to those earning more than $250,000 a year, or about 3 percent of all taxpayers.

When he outlined his idea in the battleground state of Ohio, Obama said it is unfair for middle-class earners to pay the Social Security tax "on every dime they make," while millionaires and billionaires pay it on "only a very small percentage of their income." He also said the Social Security program needs revamping to bolster its long-term viability.

With Obama offering few details, several news accounts suggested that his proposed tax on very high incomes would be applied just as the existing Social Security tax is levied on incomes up to $102,000.

All workers pay a 6.2 percent Social Security payroll tax on such income. Their employers match it, for a total tax of 12.4 percent. The tax applies only to earned income, not to passive income such as dividends and interest.

In recent weeks, Obama aides have quietly indicated that the proposed tax on incomes above $250,000 might be different in key aspects. The rate probably would be about 2 percent to 4 percent, not 6.2 percent, they said. It's also possible that it would apply to more types of income, including dividends and investments.

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As for benefits, the campaign has not said how the proposed tax on very high incomes would translate into new retirement income, if any, for those who pay it.

The campaign "has not put forth a specific plan" for Social Security, Obama economic adviser Austan Goolsbee said in an interview.

Obama's Republican opponent, Sen. John McCain, has called Social Security's funding formula "a disgrace," saying young workers will be shortchanged. But he says specific remedies must be worked out with Congress after the next president takes office. He repeatedly has said "everything is on the table," including the possibility of a Social Security tax increase.

That drew fire Monday from the Club for Growth, an anti-tax group in Washington. His comments, the group said in a letter, are "shocking because you have been adamant in your opposition to raising taxes under any circumstances."

With McCain refusing to embrace or reject proposed changes to Social Security, and Obama offering a plan with few details, the issue has generated relatively little debate on the campaign trail. But any change to the massive program could have far-reaching effects.

Many Americans rely on Social Security for much or all of their retirement income. Some workers, meanwhile, do not realize how much is withheld from each paycheck for Social Security and, to a lesser degree, Medicare.

Nearly three-fourths of all workers pay more in these payroll taxes than in federal income taxes, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. The center assumes that workers pay the full 12.4 percent in Social Security taxes, contending that employers would devote their half of the total to salaries if they did not have to make the 50-50 match.

Given the dearth of details about Obama's plans, some Republicans have criticized it, using assumptions that Democrats reject. Lawrence B. Lindsey, a former economic adviser to President Bush, argues that high earners would pay the full 12.4 percent tax rate on income above $250,000 while receiving no added benefits.

"A high-income entrepreneur would see his or her federal marginal tax rate rise to 53 percent from 37.7 percent," Lindsey wrote in a June 20 Wall Street Journal op-ed column.

The marginal tax rate is what a person pays on each additional dollar earned. Lindsey wrote that Obama's plans would provide a powerful incentive for the highest-earning Americans to work less, invest less and contribute less to the economy.

Former Oklahoma Sen. Don Nickles, a Republican, agreed. A person who owns two restaurants and makes $500,000 a year would have little incentive to open a third restaurant under Obama's tax plans, and might even close one, Nickles said in an interview. "He's not going to be hiring more people," Nickles said.

Obama economic adviser Jason Furman, responding to Lindsey in a letter published by The Wall Street Journal, said Obama would "work with Congress on a bipartisan basis to design the details" of his Social Security plan, "including the tax rate, how it is phased in over time, the linkage between these tax payments and benefits, and other critical design elements of this plan."

Furman wrote that Obama "has not proposed a 12.4-percentage point tax increase on earnings above $250,000."

WASHINGTON — Barack Obama's bid to place a new Social Security tax on very high incomes is either a bold or foolhardy plan, depending on who critiques it. But its potential impact is almost impo...
WASHINGTON — Barack Obama's bid to place a new Social Security tax on very high incomes is either a bold or foolhardy plan, depending on who critiques it. But its potential impact is almost impo...
 
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Why doesn't he go learn from Peter Orzsag...the director of the CBO now previously with Brookings institute...

All of Obma's plans, if you can call them plans are vague...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 PM on 07/28/2008

There is little point in a candidate for president getting into much detail. The presidency is, after all just a "bully pulpit"; he can ask for legislation and sign what congress gives him, but the details will be determined by the legislature.

In this case I think Obama's plans are clear. He would make Social Security more sound by taxing those making over $250K per year at a rate equal to or less than the rest of us pay on all our earned income up to $102K. I would expect the rate will be what ever it takes to make Social Security secure.

I also like that he is concidering taxing investment income as well; it is about time we honored WORK and stopped giving those who sit on their duffs and collect dividends so many breaks.

It should be fun to watch Republicans who have been trying to scare us about Social Security durring the Bush admnistration, as part of the plot to privatize Social Security and phase it out. Those same Republicans will now be singing the praises of how little change is really neccessary now that the fix will be to tax the wealthy "contributers" to their campaigns.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:41 PM on 07/28/2008

When it comes to Social Security policy I would say to McCain, "You first..." The fact is there is no solution that is going to make everyone happy, therefore there is no way to provide details without it costing you politically.

I'm not an economist, but it seems that, to make the system truly solvent, some degree of income redistribution is required and it will be unbalanced. In the end, somebody is going to benefit from the system more than others. Therefore, whether one actually wants to fix Social Security is not purely a question of economics and tax rates, but of values. The system was created in the belief that the last years of life should not be ones of privation. Is that still a value? If it is, then build your system so that it works and believe that, in the long run, America will be a better place for it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 PM on 07/28/2008

I see many of us agree. Whatever Obama's plan may be or develop as overtime, it's McCain who's taughting privatization of social security.
This should be big news so the seniors can here, especially with the mortage and banking disasters, the media should be all over this.
Can you imagine the elderly that would be ON THE STREETS right now if Bush had managed to privatize social security? Especially with the neo-con aversion to regulation?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:38 PM on 07/28/2008

AP hearts McCain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 PM on 07/28/2008

This quote from the article seems to indicate that in fact they will be paying LESS than other taxpayers!
like 2- 4.2 % less. This is not paying their fair share.

"All workers pay a 6.2 percent Social Security payroll tax on such income.

Obama aides have quietly indicated that the proposed tax on incomes above $250,000 might be different in key aspects. The rate probably would be about 2 percent to 4 percent, not 6.2 percent, they said. "

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 07/28/2008

Count the number of times that the AP publishes a story that is sympathetic to Sen Obama... clearly they are not a part of the so-called liberal media.
A better question might be has any news organization scrutinized McCain's economic, military or diplomatic plans? Far as I can tell, McCain slides all over the place and seems incapable of providing any details to the "straight-talk express". The major news media seem to give him a pass on his lack of specifics, as well as, those ongoing "flip flops".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 PM on 07/28/2008

How is this the story when McCain doesn't even have a social security plan???

He said that he supports privatization, but will work it out with Congress. How in the world can the AP say Obama doesn't have enough details when McCain literally has none!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 07/28/2008
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Details? You want details? Here is your details...Hope & Change, you figure it out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:34 PM on 07/28/2008

vague on details? no, what a shock!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 PM on 07/28/2008

I have yet to hear any details re any of his plans.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 AM on 07/28/2008

Wasn't the NYT ran over hot coals for asking for plan details of an editorial piece?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 PM on 07/28/2008

He blew it in the last debate when he gave details. He was not on top of the subject at all.

His plan would devastate small business owners and all others self-employed who actually make a liveable wage.

Expect a flip-flop. His current position drives older Dems to the polls just to vote him out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:30 PM on 07/28/2008
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Vote him out of what?
What an idi0tic comment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 PM on 07/28/2008

It's not quite as simple as it sounds. Obama's proposal bites small business owners beyond acceptable limits.

He needs to rethink and back off.

Flip-flopping on this issue would be smart.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 AM on 07/28/2008

The AP criticizing Obama's plan. What a shock. The AP has shown themselves to be unabashedly biased AGAINST Obama so I don't believe any story that comes out by them.

While crticizing Obama's plan for not being specific enough they don't note that McCain has NO plan at all and said yesterday of This Week that he would consider a tax on Soc. Sec. and that all things were "on the table". Two weeks ago McCain called Soc. Sec. a disgrace, while he quietly collects his Soc. Sec. Check, Disability check, and Senate salary.

It's not surprising that they would use another Bush hack to criticize Obama since Fournier was or probably still in bed with Rove and his croonies.

That's the disgrace of the AP - protect McCain, give his donuts with sprinkles, coffee with cream while savaging Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 AM on 07/28/2008
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"Former Oklahoma Sen. Don Nickles, a Republican, agreed. A person who owns two restaurants and makes $500,000 a year would have little incentive to open a third restaurant under Obama's tax plans"

What utter BS!!! Of course they'll still want to open a third or even more restaurants. But instead of increasing their income by ~$312K (assuming an income proportional to the number of locations open but excluding state and local taxes or reinvestment into the business) they would be increasing their income by "only" ~$235K. Bottom line is, it is still MORE money and by most the standards of most workers, it still a LOT more money. In the mean time, an extra $77K is put into the Social Security fund that will directly pay the benefits of several retirees.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 AM on 07/28/2008
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Interesting. I agree BHO is NOT as detailed as HRC. To her credit, she's a policy guru. However, JSM has even FAR less detail and doesn't even spell out how he intends to pay for anything.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 AM on 07/28/2008
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He intends for future RepubliCrats to pay for everything later (with interest).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 AM on 07/28/2008
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So in your opinion McCain has less detail on SS than Obama. How does that belief in any way give any credence to Obama's SS plan? Obama still has not explained how he would revamp SS as is the case with all his other broad reforms for which he provides no details. This will come back to haunt him the closer we get to election day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 PM on 07/28/2008
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The cap on Social Security should be lifted...

many, many wealthy people have supoprted it.. John Kerry, Oprah, Richard Branson, Warren Buffet just to name a few..

Other wealthy people who don't want it, want to privatize, or call SS a disgrace- John McCain, GW Bush, Hillary Clinton, Trent Lott, Phil Gramm, just to name a few..

(Side comment) I have turned the news on for about a half an hour- in that time MSNBC -(Contessa Brewer) has ran the anti-Obama campaign twice and talked about it on two other separate occassions.. McCain is getting free advertising as planned... and media bias is trying to paint Barack in a bad light..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:11 AM on 07/28/2008
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