Clintons Still Want To Kill Caucuses: The Latest Round

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First Posted: 08-12-08 11:08 AM   |   Updated: 09-12-08 05:12 AM

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Billhill

The Clintons hate the caucus system, and they want to see it die.

First they finished third in Iowa. Then they were out-organized by Barack Obama's campaign in the caucuses after Super Tuesday. Finally, they lost the showdown at the rules committee over how to reinstate delegates from the banned Michigan and Florida primaries.

According to one well-placed source, President Clinton himself is still raw over reports of caucus tampering in Iowa that he believes could have tilted the race in Barack Obama's favor, and has mentioned that possibility several times in conversation. A separate source who is also close to Clinton says the idea that people were "bused in" from Illinois to caucus is still a concern, as well. (The Iowa Democratic Party is not required by law to release its caucus rolls, and has not done so.)

In part, this fits with the pattern of retrospective analysis and persistent "what-if" thinking on the part of some Clinton officials, such as when communications director Howard Wolfson remarked on Fox News that John Edwards cost Sen. Clinton the nomination -- a claim that was later partially debunked.

So while a debate about the use of caucuses might seem moot to some, it remains terribly important to Clinton loyalists. And thus the battle over their use rages on -- sometimes in private, and sometimes in quasi-public forums. The most recent flash point was last weekend's DNC platform committee meeting in Pittsburgh. Included among over 100 proposed amendments to the party's platform was Amendment 93, which would have banned caucuses from future nominating contests.

Not surprisingly, it was a non-starter from the DNC's perspective. According to multiple sources, representatives for DNC Chairman Howard Dean ruled the proposed amendment out of order, since it spoke to a change in party rules, and referred it to the rules committee for a future discussion. Unlike other failed amendments, however, Amendment 93 was not even granted a debate at the platform meeting, a development which set some Clinton supporters on edge.

And after the fact, confusion over which draft of the amendment had even been rejected led to suspicion that it had been improperly referred to the rules committee in the first place.

Bob Remer, a Clinton delegate from Illinois who proposed the language of Amendment 93, told the Huffington Post he could only get a sentence or two out of his mouth before being interrupted at the meeting. Remer believes his preamble -- "The Democratic Party will practice its commitment to voting rights within our own nomination processes" -- would not have represented "a matter of mechanics or a change in rules."

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"I just thought i was premature to rule it out of order," he said. Referring to the surrogates at the platform meeting who represented Obama and the DNC, Remer said: "They could have made their case and had it voted down. They could have entertained a motion to table. But at least you'd have a debate. I was caught in mid-sentence."

Still, after that preamble, Remer's amendment pivoted into some pretty rule-impacting language. In part, it read: "Caucuses inherently disenfranchise the elderly, disabled, shift workers, single parents, and others whose circumstance prohibits participation in caucuses. The 2008 primaries illustrated that a caucus vote is worth more than a primary vote because each delegate elected by caucus represents fewer votes than each delegate elected by (a) primary."

The language also went on to assert that "party officials" and "aggressive participants" often assert coercion over voters that is immune from federal oversight. Thus, Remer wrote, the party should "forbid caucuses" in the future and require all states to hold primaries -- an expensive proposition that the DNC points out many states cannot afford.

Remer said he could understand why that language would be referred to the rules committee, though he believes the preamble could have been adopted on the basis of "principals and policy."

DNC platform member and prominent Clinton fundraiser Lynn Forester was even more explicit. In a statement to the Huffington Post, she said: "You must ask yourself, why would the Democratic Party reject the language of Amendment 93, saying the 'Democratic Party will practice its commitment to voting rights within its own nomination processes'? The fact that they used a technicality to deny this language as a statement of the Democratic Party's beliefs is a stain on this process."

While the DNC would not comment on the dispute except to describe it as an internal party matter, a source with knowledge of the committee's thinking said the platform meeting was not the appropriate time or place for the discussion. Noting that the document is meant to bring the party together and speak to broader goals, the source said the prospect of hashing out internecine party disputes was anathema to the DNC.

As for whether caucus rules could be properly addressed in the "voting rights" section of the platform, the source distinguished the party's rules for a private nominating contest from its support for the Federal Civil Voting Rights Act and the 14th amendment. (Indeed, a suit alleging that caucuses and primaries were "voting rights" issues was tossed by a federal judge earlier this year.)

The source also admitted that the DNC knows it has to address the problems of the caucus system and its proportional influence over the entire nominating process, but that it will take time, perhaps years, to properly thrash out the details.

For his part, Remer says that was his only goal. "They sort of said, we know the problem but don't bug me here," he recalled, laughing. But he insists he wasn't interested in calling Barack Obama's caucus wins into question after the fact. "This wasn't for the purpose of changing the course of history. Barack Obama is our nominee and I'm happy with that. I want to change the course of the future."

Forester, however, sees a broader alliance between Chairman Dean and Barack Obama that she feels is bad for the party. "Howard Dean's representative struck down Amendment 93," she said after the platform meeting, which she attended as an appointed Clinton representative. "Governor Dean is afraid of this language and that's an outrage. And by extension he's carrying Obama's water like he has through this whole nominating process. He is compromising the basic principle of one person, one vote, in order to give the nomination to Barack Obama and that means the Democratic party has a big problem."

Remer didn't come away totally disappointed from Saturday's platform meeting, however. Another one of his amendments passed, paving the way for a stronger position on guaranteed health care for all Americans. Another source from the Clinton side expressed gratitude that other Hillary-like language made it into the platform. "The Obama and Clinton people were definitely making an effort to reach out," the source said.

Perhaps the most prominent linguistic olive branch in the platform comes in a passage that reads: "Our party is proud that we have put 18 million cracks in the highest glass ceiling," echoing rhetoric that Sen. Clinton herself used when suspending her campaign.

Still, despite such sounds of harmony, the issue of caucuses is destined to come up again. Remer said he plans to address the rules committee on the matter -- an opportunity he could have as early as next week. Describing an epiphany that occurred while he was carrying a blind and disabled elderly woman up the stairs at an Iowa caucus site in January, he said he determined then and there that "this thing has got to go."

"It doesn't really matter who my candidate was," he said. "But I cut my teeth fighting elections fraud, for the sanctity of secret ballot. When we went to Iowa, I said, 'this is what we've been fighting against all these years in terms of election reform, my God!' Even when we thought our candidate was going to win, I said, 'It doesn't matter. It's very undemocratic.'"

The Clintons hate the caucus system, and they want to see it die. First they finished third in Iowa. Then they were out-organized by Barack Obama's campaign in the caucuses after Super Tuesday. Final...
The Clintons hate the caucus system, and they want to see it die. First they finished third in Iowa. Then they were out-organized by Barack Obama's campaign in the caucuses after Super Tuesday. Final...
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- scrawf I'm a Fan of scrawf 2 fans permalink

Caucuses should be 'killed.' I like antiques a lot, but the caucus is an antique that should be done away with. They are inconvenient for many workers, and they are not private. I fail to see why anyone would defend them. Other than the fact that they save their states money, of course.

Seriously, what could possibly justify their existence?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:43 PM on 08/13/2008
- reliant1 I'm a Fan of reliant1 24 fans permalink
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the primary vote - held after the caucus?

worked great here!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:14 PM on 08/13/2008
- Verified I'm a Fan of Verified 14 fans permalink

Good to see Bill out there, campaigning his heart out for the man who won the nomination. What a jerk he has become.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:36 PM on 08/13/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 142 fans permalink
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He's worked REAAAAALY long & REAAAAALY hard at "becoming" it ....good job !!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:05 PM on 08/13/2008
- dreffein I'm a Fan of dreffein 18 fans permalink
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Lice - as I recall, you don't want the Clintons near Obama. Did you forget? And remember, it's Obama's campaign. If he wants Bill to be doing something, he should just ask. Otherwise, you'd criticize Bill for going off on his own. No matter what Bill does, he loses in your book.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 PM on 08/13/2008

It is you Obama supporters who have casted him as racist. Why should he support someone who did not defend a fellow Democrat and former President.?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:58 PM on 08/18/2008
- WFV I'm a Fan of WFV 13 fans permalink
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The only reason the Clintons want to kill the caucus system is because it did not serve their interests this time around. They did not complain about the process in the 90s, nor did they voice any opposition to the processes at the start of this election cycle. Now they're all bent out of shape and using this system of voting as yet another justification for their loss.

Frankly, I wish I lived in a caucus state. There were so many people I spoke with in the primary who really had no clue what was going on with each candidate - name recognition and lame TV ads formed their opinion - and thus their vote. Caucuses take some dedication and forethought, and yes, I can see how it may be difficult for some to participate, but I believe it is the minority who could not take part if they were inspired to do so.

Leave the caucus system alone, or at least, leave it to the individual states to decide. It is not for sore losers to make that decision for voters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 PM on 08/13/2008
- ruralguy I'm a Fan of ruralguy 2 fans permalink

The caucus system is as absurd as the Electoral College. Let's get rid of both of them. Let's start fixing what's wrong with this country. Wake up Democrats. Do the ethical thing for a change.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:45 PM on 08/13/2008
- doctorwang I'm a Fan of doctorwang 196 fans permalink
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Fine- fix the system. But wait til after the '08 election to do so. The rules of the game were already set when the candidates entered into this contest. If any of them had objections to the process, the time to have done something about it was before the race started. Not after the contest ended.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 08/13/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 142 fans permalink
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We're right smack in the middle of a very important Election - surely there's a more appropriate time, down the road, to take a second look at the Election process ....
Let's ELECT Obama & get it done with !!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:59 PM on 08/13/2008
- ritenow I'm a Fan of ritenow 26 fans permalink

I think the Clintons still believe they have Hillary's millions of voters as a bargaining chip.

That Bill and Hill - they have everything but - grace.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:14 PM on 08/13/2008

liseworks: There is that old "instant gratification" thing again. "I want it now or I will hold my breath until I turn blue" attitude!
The new generation has not learned that "patience is a virtue". All Democratic Party voters haven't determined that Obama's nomination is NOT a big mistake and only a traditional roll-call vote at the Convention will prove he has enough support to win in the general election. What is his campaign afraid of?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:49 PM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

The Democrats cannot get rid of the electoral college, it will take an act of Congress.

This discussion muddies the business at hand: the election that looms in November.

The time to change the rules was before this election season began, or after it's over. It's not possible to change the rules in the middle of the election - no matter how badly Clinton wants to.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:05 PM on 08/13/2008
- dreffein I'm a Fan of dreffein 18 fans permalink
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Olivia - this is not about changing the results of this election. It's about "change we can believe in" and looking forward to improving the system for 2012. But I do agree that this can wait until after November.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:29 PM on 08/13/2008
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getting rid of the Electoral College will take a constitutional amendment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:01 PM on 08/13/2008
- Jonny38103 I'm a Fan of Jonny38103 10 fans permalink

Regardless of the outcome of this year's Democratic primaries/caucuses, I too find the caucus system undemocratic. It relies to heavily on the party "regulars", or the most heavily involved party members and their choice doesn't always represnt the party well. I like voting better - it's more inclusive and more private.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:43 PM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

Caucuses do not exclude registered Democrats from participating.

The fault you find with caucuses has to do with apathy among the people who choose not to participate.

Obama has already changed that. He brought out people to participate in the caucuses in numbers never seen before.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:08 PM on 08/13/2008

olivia: You said, "Obama has already changed that. He brought out people to participate in the caucuses in numbers never seen before."
You are absolutely right. It is called "organization". When I pointed out that many of them were militaristic college kids, bussed from state to state, to disrupt Caucuses and intimidate the opposition, I was lambasted by the Obamabots.
The same people are bashing Hillary Clinton because her campaign was not "organized". How can anyone think this "organization" ultimately chooses the best candidate for President and not just the Prom King. The fact that Obama's campaign staff used these tactics to acquire more delegates in the red states does not translate to Obama being the winner in the general election. If the Obama campaign and his followers really believed he was the best candidate, they would not oppose the traditional roll-call vote at the Convention. They must realize that Hillary Clinton has more support than just menopausal Women and are afraid that Obama's support has been slipping lately as voters get to know who he really is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:41 PM on 08/13/2008
- Egalitare I'm a Fan of Egalitare 6 fans permalink
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If it's the public nature of the Caucuses that turns you off, oh well. I've been in my share of caucuses (we had them when I lived in Virginia). It was only mildly unpleasant being the only African-American supporting Gary Hart in a sea of Jesse Jackson supporters.

I gained some respect from "party regulars" for having the courage of my convictions, and I wouldn't trade that experience for anything.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:56 PM on 08/13/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 142 fans permalink
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Egalitare : You have my respect, among many others' ....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:14 PM on 08/13/2008

It seems the parties members are less willing to listen to dissent or criticism than in previous years. In some cases, it seems the party is hostile to dissent, see the abc news report about colorado's state party for an example. It is a bad change.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 08/13/2008
- Knowitall I'm a Fan of Knowitall 74 fans permalink

Didn't Bill Clinton win the nomination as result of the caucus system? He certainly wasn't a shoo-in in '91. I believe I'm right about this. I will check. Be right back.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:45 PM on 08/13/2008

Bill Clinton didn't compete in Iowa's caucus - right? Because Tom Harkin was running.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:59 PM on 08/13/2008

God, I love these people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 PM on 08/13/2008

BC needs to return the tax payers money that was spent during the investigations of his sordid affairs, because he did not tell the truth. This is the part of his legacy, that he is keenly remembered for and that he needs to fix, aside from saying that he is not a racist. Glad I never voted for him, at least I do not have buyers remorse.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 PM on 08/13/2008
- bccity I'm a Fan of bccity 3 fans permalink

How stupid.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:02 PM on 08/13/2008
- mredder4 I'm a Fan of mredder4 27 fans permalink

I have yet to see one person explain what the benefit is of a caucus over a primary.

Someone, please explain. Please explain how letting 5,000 people decide the apportionment of delegates for a state with millions of voters is democratic. Please explain how haranguing and "horse-trading" to get people to change their votes is democratic.

I know how a primary works, why it is free and fair, and why it should be the national norm.

But why, why, WHY is there any reason to hold on to the caucus system? I have yet to see anyone answer that questions openly, honestly, and straightforwardly. So far, it's all been "Well Clinton didn't mind them in the 90s" BS replies.

Someone be an adult and address the issue of the caucus system and what merits, if any, it has, and do so without mentioning the Clintons or the recently ended (and ultimately decided) primary season.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:02 PM on 08/13/2008

Living in Iowa, I had wondered the same thing. January was the first caucus for me, as it was for 10's of thousands of other Iowans. After participating, though, and really seeing how it works I am a supporter of caucuses. One, of many, reasons why I liked it was that because people are so involed they take the responsibility of their choice very seriously. We knew for months prior that the Republican party was telling their supporters to go to the caucus and caucus for Hillary. In the end they were not able to do this in any significant way because people know their neighbors precinct by precinct and when push came to shove, the Rep. were too embarrassed to do it. It would have been very easy, as it was in a number of states, for Rep. to mess with the Dem. primary and vote for who they wanted to run against. In a caucus this is very hard to do. I also want to stress that not only did I not witness any arm twisting, (actually at our precinct the most agressive behavior was by a handfull of Hillary supporters going after Biden supporters), I felt that people were exceptionally gracious and enthusiastic. Because of the nature of how a caucus works, Obama would have won by an even larger percentage had there been a primary. Sometimes, for some, I guess it's easier to believe the spin that supports your pre-conceived viewpoint.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 PM on 08/13/2008
- PlantGod72 I'm a Fan of PlantGod72 46 fans permalink
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Exceptional firsthand account. Thanks for that!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:21 PM on 08/13/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 142 fans permalink
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Thanks ! I'm thoroughly convinced.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:45 PM on 08/13/2008

viewfromiowa: You said, "We knew for months prior that the Republican party was telling their supporters to go to the caucus and caucus for Hillary."
For someone against spin, you sure are puting a lot out here. I assume the Republicans were not embarrassed to vote for Obama. This E-mail was circulated on RepublicansforObama.com and exposes what really happened in Primary AND Caucus states. The Republican goal has always been to get rid of the Clintons and the Democrats turned a blind eye. The statement that Obama won the Democratic nomination "fair and square" is BS.
http://www.thecityedition.com/Pages/Archive/Winter08/EmailAppeal.html?q=node/358
This is how the E-mail starts.
"Attention All Texas Republicans and Independents!!"
"On March 4th, Texas Republicans and Independents will have an opportunity to end Hillary Clinton's (and Bill's) presidential ambitions once and for all!
Since Texas has on open primary, Republicans and Independents should sign in at their polling place and request a Democratic ballot. They should then vote for Barack Obama. Even James Carville admits that if Hillary loses Texas, "she's done!" Republicans can help make this a reality!!! Just think, no more Clintons in the White House!"
Sadly, the Obamabots feel the same way as the Republicans and helped.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:13 PM on 08/13/2008

Actually there are several reasons (which have been posted here):

1) They are less prone to "operation chaos" type shenanigans (because it takes more effort to stick around and explain your decision)

2) Though many people may not be able to participate, those that do often find the process much more energizing than a simple vote (there were a ton of "first time ever" caucus attendees this year, and in interview after interview they were positive about the experience)

3) By raising the bar for participation (a couple of hours instead of a few minutes in a primary) you get a better gauge of what the most devoted participants want (instead of casual voters)

4) It rewards grass roots (non-big money) candidates because if they can out organize the opposition, they can get people to plead their case to the undecideds before the caucus votes (and revotes). This negates the power of big money in campaigns.

Yes, they have serious flaws, and I'm not saying the caucus should stay or go, but to pretend "nobody answered why they are good" is just a flat out lie.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 PM on 08/13/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 142 fans permalink
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Senz -
Thanks for that explanation - !
I had wondered about the merits too - I especially recognize the legitimacy of #3 & #4 - it takes people who have been "paying attention" to make the most informed decisions -

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:42 PM on 08/13/2008
- mredder4 I'm a Fan of mredder4 27 fans permalink

Thanks for the reply.

All of the reasons you mentioned seem to imply that those with the time to burn to go to a caucus are somehow "better voters" than your average citizen. A working mom or late-shift worker doesn't get a vote, because someone who reads blogs all day is "better informed"? Sorry, but that's a crock and we all know it.

Anyone expected to cast a vote in the fall should have their say in the primary season, not just those who are available. The caucus system amounts to nothing more than mob rule: those who have the biggest mob rule. Say what you will about energy and enthusiasm, but it remains disenfranchising and frankly patronizing. "We're the grassroots (or netroots), we'll pick you candidate for you, because you obviously don't have the time to be as well-read as I am on all the angles"? In America? In 2008? Honestly?

People gripe about "back-room" dealing and party bosses and all the things that Obama apparently overcame to topple Clinton. How is switching the minority in charge from older more experienced politicians to inexperienced newcomers any different of a system? It's still the few dictating choice to the many, and that's still just plain wrong.

I advocate closed primary elections with required registration. It would restore balance to the process, give everyone their equal vote, and would prevent all of the pitfalls mentioned about "open" primaries.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:10 PM on 08/14/2008
- MNmommy I'm a Fan of MNmommy 379 fans permalink
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It's good to see that the sandbox in the echo chamber is still lively and filled to the gills!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 PM on 08/13/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 142 fans permalink
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It's cathartic - it was Hellary's idea -

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 08/13/2008
- PlantGod72 I'm a Fan of PlantGod72 46 fans permalink
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WHEEeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!

Hey......who threw cat poop in my sandbox???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:23 PM on 08/13/2008
- cmp I'm a Fan of cmp 3 fans permalink

The problem is with Bill : he hurt the democrats when he refused to difinitively state that Obama was ready to be President. That conceited peacock decided to get all cerebral on the question to let us know how smart he is instead of just saying "yes". I used to admire that man. He has done nothing to advance this election to elect Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 PM on 08/13/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 142 fans permalink
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He's such a piece of ..............well : poop.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 PM on 08/13/2008
- Falafel I'm a Fan of Falafel 9 fans permalink
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A little light reading (plus a photo of an actual PUMA)

http://www.observer.com/2008/politics/defiant-clinton-women-refuse-support-obama

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 PM on 08/13/2008
- MNmommy I'm a Fan of MNmommy 379 fans permalink
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These women are seriously delusional.

That said, I don't have a problem with rule changes that get rid of the caucuses - they aren't very democratic in some ways - it was impossible to drive to mine the traffic was so backed up - we had to turn around drive back home and walk to get there. That's the problem with trying to squeeze an all day event (voting in a primary) into a couple hours. The platform committee meeting was an inappropriate venue for that though.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:37 PM on 08/13/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 142 fans permalink
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There are actual photos of Pumas ?? Wow - I thought they just liked to lurk in the dark -
Cool !!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:59 PM on 08/13/2008

With cloak and dagger!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:40 PM on 08/13/2008
- Falafel I'm a Fan of Falafel 9 fans permalink
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Well, the wealthy ones get their pearls on and pose in public while they yammer on.

They're the noisiest as they stand to lose the most. These are the chicks that Bill & Hill would invite over for Lincoln bedroom parties (for a small fee, of course); they then return to their own compounds and invite over other rich bored checks to brag about their weekend with Bill & Hill. They don't care about the country-they care about their own press.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:36 PM on 08/13/2008
- PennP I'm a Fan of PennP 26 fans permalink
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Did you read the piece? Some of these people are running on pure hatred. They talk of "purging" the party of Obama supporters. That gives me chills. I hope there's massive security in Denver.

Also, HRC has something to answer for in not "denouncing and rejecting" these people and their efforts. Far from it, they seem to find her recent statements encouraging. Their agenda is foul, it's all about benefitting her, wrongly, and she should be held accountable for enabling if she refuses to disavow them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:21 PM on 08/13/2008
- doctorwang I'm a Fan of doctorwang 196 fans permalink
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If you want to see some uncensored examples of 'pure hatred' by these folks try going over to NoQuarter (mentioned in the article that Falafel provided the link for). Check out the comments and see for yourself the vile raw hatred these 'people' have for O and his supporters.
I agree that HRC has nothing to disavow them. It's no wonder there is growing animosity towards HRC supporters........

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:46 PM on 08/13/2008
- Falafel I'm a Fan of Falafel 9 fans permalink
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I hear you about the security but I remain optimistic that it's essentially a small (albeit whiny) group, Granted, the rich socialites can hop on their private plans to Denver but I doubt they'll offer rides to the sweaty masses.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:25 PM on 08/13/2008
- doctorwang I'm a Fan of doctorwang 196 fans permalink
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“If this party turns its back on Bill C!inton, it’s not a party that deserves our loyalty,”

It's all about C!inton worship. And they have the nerve to call O a 'messiah'.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:37 PM on 08/13/2008
- seenitall I'm a Fan of seenitall 9 fans permalink
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some of those rooms had such good memories for Bill...he was so hoping to get back. I like Hillary, but she decided that with all of his foibles, he was more of an asset to her than the liability he turned out to be.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 PM on 08/13/2008
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That speaks to her poor judgement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:41 PM on 08/13/2008
- hawkseye I'm a Fan of hawkseye 3 fans permalink

So does the Atlantic Monthly article. Hillary doesn't seem to have much talent for administration.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:52 PM on 08/13/2008

1900 comments on Huffington Post of Obamabots telling each other how insignificant the Clintons are. How funny.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 PM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

I don't believe the point is that they're insignificant.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:10 PM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 266 fans permalink
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That is not true. Can you not be here five minutes without getting out the wooden spoon to stir the pot? And how many of the 1900 have you read? Five or six, just enough to make a point you were bent on making ever before you got here. Not even Puma Ann is 100% negative all the time like you are.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 PM on 08/13/2008
- Tropiholic I'm a Fan of Tropiholic 20 fans permalink

nobody called the clintons insignificant, they are being called out for being sore losers and desperate whining children.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:40 PM on 08/13/2008
- PlantGod72 I'm a Fan of PlantGod72 46 fans permalink
photo

"Insignificant", no.

UNETHICAL, HYPOCRITICAL, DISHONEST, SORE LOSERS, INFLUENCE PEDDLERS, LIARS, GREEDY, SELF PROMOTERS-----------YES!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 PM on 08/13/2008
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