Clintons Still Want To Kill Caucuses: The Latest Round

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First Posted: 08-12-08 11:08 AM   |   Updated: 09-12-08 05:12 AM

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Billhill

The Clintons hate the caucus system, and they want to see it die.

First they finished third in Iowa. Then they were out-organized by Barack Obama's campaign in the caucuses after Super Tuesday. Finally, they lost the showdown at the rules committee over how to reinstate delegates from the banned Michigan and Florida primaries.

According to one well-placed source, President Clinton himself is still raw over reports of caucus tampering in Iowa that he believes could have tilted the race in Barack Obama's favor, and has mentioned that possibility several times in conversation. A separate source who is also close to Clinton says the idea that people were "bused in" from Illinois to caucus is still a concern, as well. (The Iowa Democratic Party is not required by law to release its caucus rolls, and has not done so.)

In part, this fits with the pattern of retrospective analysis and persistent "what-if" thinking on the part of some Clinton officials, such as when communications director Howard Wolfson remarked on Fox News that John Edwards cost Sen. Clinton the nomination -- a claim that was later partially debunked.

So while a debate about the use of caucuses might seem moot to some, it remains terribly important to Clinton loyalists. And thus the battle over their use rages on -- sometimes in private, and sometimes in quasi-public forums. The most recent flash point was last weekend's DNC platform committee meeting in Pittsburgh. Included among over 100 proposed amendments to the party's platform was Amendment 93, which would have banned caucuses from future nominating contests.

Not surprisingly, it was a non-starter from the DNC's perspective. According to multiple sources, representatives for DNC Chairman Howard Dean ruled the proposed amendment out of order, since it spoke to a change in party rules, and referred it to the rules committee for a future discussion. Unlike other failed amendments, however, Amendment 93 was not even granted a debate at the platform meeting, a development which set some Clinton supporters on edge.

And after the fact, confusion over which draft of the amendment had even been rejected led to suspicion that it had been improperly referred to the rules committee in the first place.

Bob Remer, a Clinton delegate from Illinois who proposed the language of Amendment 93, told the Huffington Post he could only get a sentence or two out of his mouth before being interrupted at the meeting. Remer believes his preamble -- "The Democratic Party will practice its commitment to voting rights within our own nomination processes" -- would not have represented "a matter of mechanics or a change in rules."

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"I just thought i was premature to rule it out of order," he said. Referring to the surrogates at the platform meeting who represented Obama and the DNC, Remer said: "They could have made their case and had it voted down. They could have entertained a motion to table. But at least you'd have a debate. I was caught in mid-sentence."

Still, after that preamble, Remer's amendment pivoted into some pretty rule-impacting language. In part, it read: "Caucuses inherently disenfranchise the elderly, disabled, shift workers, single parents, and others whose circumstance prohibits participation in caucuses. The 2008 primaries illustrated that a caucus vote is worth more than a primary vote because each delegate elected by caucus represents fewer votes than each delegate elected by (a) primary."

The language also went on to assert that "party officials" and "aggressive participants" often assert coercion over voters that is immune from federal oversight. Thus, Remer wrote, the party should "forbid caucuses" in the future and require all states to hold primaries -- an expensive proposition that the DNC points out many states cannot afford.

Remer said he could understand why that language would be referred to the rules committee, though he believes the preamble could have been adopted on the basis of "principals and policy."

DNC platform member and prominent Clinton fundraiser Lynn Forester was even more explicit. In a statement to the Huffington Post, she said: "You must ask yourself, why would the Democratic Party reject the language of Amendment 93, saying the 'Democratic Party will practice its commitment to voting rights within its own nomination processes'? The fact that they used a technicality to deny this language as a statement of the Democratic Party's beliefs is a stain on this process."

While the DNC would not comment on the dispute except to describe it as an internal party matter, a source with knowledge of the committee's thinking said the platform meeting was not the appropriate time or place for the discussion. Noting that the document is meant to bring the party together and speak to broader goals, the source said the prospect of hashing out internecine party disputes was anathema to the DNC.

As for whether caucus rules could be properly addressed in the "voting rights" section of the platform, the source distinguished the party's rules for a private nominating contest from its support for the Federal Civil Voting Rights Act and the 14th amendment. (Indeed, a suit alleging that caucuses and primaries were "voting rights" issues was tossed by a federal judge earlier this year.)

The source also admitted that the DNC knows it has to address the problems of the caucus system and its proportional influence over the entire nominating process, but that it will take time, perhaps years, to properly thrash out the details.

For his part, Remer says that was his only goal. "They sort of said, we know the problem but don't bug me here," he recalled, laughing. But he insists he wasn't interested in calling Barack Obama's caucus wins into question after the fact. "This wasn't for the purpose of changing the course of history. Barack Obama is our nominee and I'm happy with that. I want to change the course of the future."

Forester, however, sees a broader alliance between Chairman Dean and Barack Obama that she feels is bad for the party. "Howard Dean's representative struck down Amendment 93," she said after the platform meeting, which she attended as an appointed Clinton representative. "Governor Dean is afraid of this language and that's an outrage. And by extension he's carrying Obama's water like he has through this whole nominating process. He is compromising the basic principle of one person, one vote, in order to give the nomination to Barack Obama and that means the Democratic party has a big problem."

Remer didn't come away totally disappointed from Saturday's platform meeting, however. Another one of his amendments passed, paving the way for a stronger position on guaranteed health care for all Americans. Another source from the Clinton side expressed gratitude that other Hillary-like language made it into the platform. "The Obama and Clinton people were definitely making an effort to reach out," the source said.

Perhaps the most prominent linguistic olive branch in the platform comes in a passage that reads: "Our party is proud that we have put 18 million cracks in the highest glass ceiling," echoing rhetoric that Sen. Clinton herself used when suspending her campaign.

Still, despite such sounds of harmony, the issue of caucuses is destined to come up again. Remer said he plans to address the rules committee on the matter -- an opportunity he could have as early as next week. Describing an epiphany that occurred while he was carrying a blind and disabled elderly woman up the stairs at an Iowa caucus site in January, he said he determined then and there that "this thing has got to go."

"It doesn't really matter who my candidate was," he said. "But I cut my teeth fighting elections fraud, for the sanctity of secret ballot. When we went to Iowa, I said, 'this is what we've been fighting against all these years in terms of election reform, my God!' Even when we thought our candidate was going to win, I said, 'It doesn't matter. It's very undemocratic.'"

The Clintons hate the caucus system, and they want to see it die. First they finished third in Iowa. Then they were out-organized by Barack Obama's campaign in the caucuses after Super Tuesday. Final...
The Clintons hate the caucus system, and they want to see it die. First they finished third in Iowa. Then they were out-organized by Barack Obama's campaign in the caucuses after Super Tuesday. Final...
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- edwcorey I'm a Fan of edwcorey 20 fans permalink

It's one thing to be the Comeback Kid. But these people are like roach zombies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 AM on 08/13/2008
- Aleka4 I'm a Fan of Aleka4 47 fans permalink

Roach zombies! Ahahahahahaha!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 PM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

The Clintons are not liberal enough to fix the country after 8 years of Bush destruction.

This is the time for a true progressive. When everything is back to normal, then centrists can apply.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:53 AM on 08/13/2008
- jrterrier I'm a Fan of jrterrier 5 fans permalink

true progressive? who would that be? he voted for the FISA bill. he rejected public campaign financing. he's against universal health care. kucinich is a true progressive. obama is same old, same old politician just new on the scene.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 PM on 08/13/2008
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I remember being wooed by great speeches promoting change -- back in '92. I expect that Obama will be more of the same. He's already capitulated on Offshore drilling and FISA and he's not even in office.

Kucinich '08

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:15 PM on 08/13/2008
- Roose I'm a Fan of Roose 8 fans permalink

Bill Clinton should be asking for a recount of the New Hampshire primary.

Just when Kucinich was in the process of getting a recount, he had to haul his butt back to his district to defend his seat, because someone didn't want that recount to happen. That's where fraud happened. Oh, and in Rangel's NY district, NOT ONE vote for Obama. Fraud was suspected and hushed. If the cheating had not benefited his wife, Bill would still be howling at those irregularities.

Why can't those two sore losers stop their whining and go away.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:58 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

They're still hoping to steal this in Denver.

Just watched a video interview of Will Bower, the "founder" of PUMA. He claims that because Hillary has not released her delegates, that is their sign that she is not really supporting Obama and is fully behind their shenanigans to steal the nomination.

He has a point.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 AM on 08/13/2008
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He does not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:02 PM on 08/13/2008

Is "release" really a valid concept? Delegates aren't like dogs or spores or viruses. I think we'll see even more of the supposed Clinton delegates defect to Obama's side when the actual votes take place. The PUMA banshees can do or say whatever they like, but in the end the power isn't theirs. That's why they're threatening mayhem -- they have no other cards to play.

It's sad and it's sick, but to concede anything to them would be sadder and sicker. Like Hillary herself, they've manufactured their own misery, and that misery can be ignored.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:38 AM on 08/14/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

They were afraid of Kucinich. I mourned the day he withdrew. He had them running scared - even the Democrats and this blog - with his integrity and truth telling.

He was always, always my first choice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 AM on 08/13/2008
- dreffein I'm a Fan of dreffein 18 fans permalink
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Please - afraid of Kucinich? Noone was afraid of Kucinich. He ran to compensate because he has short man's syndrome and to show off his tall, attractive wife. Who would have thought Dennis could have scored such a beauty.

You'll go to any lengths to make up stories about the Clintons. Would also love to see your stats on Operation Chaos success. The only person who crowed about it was Rush Limbaugh. Great source.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:33 AM on 08/13/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 143 fans permalink
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Kucinich is a brilliant man with tons of integrity - & if he scored a beautiful wife, it just might be that that woman found honesty, guts & intelligence far more attractive than a mere "outer" package -
& I can totally relate to that !!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:08 PM on 08/13/2008

His associations with aliens was a bit troubling.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:34 PM on 08/13/2008
- Roose I'm a Fan of Roose 8 fans permalink

Here is a link. Investigate this Bill!

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?bid=1&pid=286025

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:31 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 255 fans permalink
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new thread, Hillary not going to be keynote speaker...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/13/mark-warner-keynote-speak_n_118610.html

a wise decision..­.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:42 AM on 08/13/2008
- jrterrier I'm a Fan of jrterrier 5 fans permalink

ridiculous. warner is a guy who won one term (in VA governors can only run once) as Governor of VA. while you are investigating how mcain supporters got their money, why don't you expose how
mark warner became super rich.

warner decline to run for president because his internal polls showed he wasn't going to make it. and he's the keynote speaker. over hillary clinton. give me a break

the obama inclination to insult the clintons continues (remember his continual praise for Reagan over Bill during the primary). good riddance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:44 PM on 08/13/2008
- PlantGod72 I'm a Fan of PlantGod72 46 fans permalink
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Do you get PAID for spreading this garbage, lies and distraction around, or is it just for fun?

Obama wasn't "praising" Reagan over Clinton's policies, and you know it, but you'd rather tap out nonsense on your keyboard than truth.

And after the Clintons' unsuccessful attempts to decimate Obama in the primaries, and Bill's continuing bitching and moaning about the process that they screwed up so completely, they can now enjoy the lasting fruits of their labors....­..elsewher­e.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:07 PM on 08/13/2008
- felinetta I'm a Fan of felinetta 5 fans permalink

Thank God. It's over Bill and Hill. MOVE ON!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 PM on 08/13/2008
- hawkseye I'm a Fan of hawkseye 3 fans permalink

It won't be over until the day after election day. Billary can still cause trouble through the election. Then, after Barack wins, he can toss the Clintons onto the ash heap of political campaign history.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 PM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

Here's a thought for the Clintons:

If they care so much about democracy, they should put a stop to Republicans interfering with the Democrats' democratic process by crossing over to vote in our primaries.

No state should allow Republicans to vote in a Democratic primary. If you won't register to vote as a Democrat, you shouldn't be able to participate.

What's that, Hillary? Operation Chaos benefited you so it's all ok?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:36 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 255 fans permalink
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I agree.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 AM on 08/13/2008
- jrterrier I'm a Fan of jrterrier 5 fans permalink

i love this. when republicans were voting for obama, you saw it as a positive sign; a sign that your man had cross-over appeal. obama even ran ads saying be a democrat for a day in states that allowed those not previously registered as dems to vote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 PM on 08/13/2008

jrterrier: This is why Republicans were voting for Obama. They were instructed to.
http://www.thecityedition.com/Pages/Archive/Winter08/EmailAppeal.html?q=node/358

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:57 PM on 08/13/2008
- likeicare I'm a Fan of likeicare 8 fans permalink

I wonder if the Clintons are willing to give up the votes they got in the caucuses they did win? Were those caucuses "undemocratic," too, or is it just the ones Obama won?

The die-hard Clintonistas aren't called Dead-Enders for nothing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 AM on 08/13/2008
- bobdob I'm a Fan of bobdob 18 fans permalink

As someone who lives in a caucus state, I'm offended by the Clintons' stance on this. Caucuses are simply one of the best demonstrations of democracy in action I have ever seen. So Hillary lost. So what? If she had done a better job of campaigning in Iowa (instead of whining about it later) perhaps she'd have a little more respect for voters like me. As it is, this is just another reason why I'm very, very glad to know that the Clinton Circus will never again perform in the White House.

The Clintons truly represent the worst of American politics.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:48 AM on 08/13/2008

Caucuses do not have secret ballots allowing low-life's and goons to armtwist others. It also has low voter participation. That makes it undemocratic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

What evidence do you have that anybody arm-twists anybody? Have you been to a caucus and witnessed this thing you are alleging?

Low voter participation is a problem in many kinds of elections. Primary elections get poor turnout too. This year the Republican primary was a real snoozer. The Democratic caucus got 10x normal turnout.

Obama seems to have solved any problem of low caucus attendance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:39 AM on 08/13/2008

Of ocurse if Hill had won you would be posting the opposite.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 AM on 08/13/2008
- Roose I'm a Fan of Roose 8 fans permalink

Iowans are being penalized because they saw through the Clintons dirty low class campaign. They thought they'd coast to the nomination without having to worry about Iowa and the rest of the caucus states. Now they're crying foul. What a miserable team. I used to only despise her now I despise them both.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:05 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

Speaking of goons arm-twisti­ng... what is going behind the scenes with Clintons, PUMAs and delegates?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 AM on 08/13/2008
- jrterrier I'm a Fan of jrterrier 5 fans permalink

caucuses are anti-democratic. in most caucus states the percentage of voters that went to the polls were miniscule. in three states that had caucuses and primaries both, the numbers for the caucuses were about 5% of the numbers who turned out for the primary (Nebraska, TX and WA).

you have to be there for about 2 or 3 hours at a date and time certain. if you are sick, working, have kids to care for, are traveling, in the military or just cannot spare that much time, you are out of luck.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 PM on 08/13/2008
- BetterDays I'm a Fan of BetterDays 33 fans permalink
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Similar to previous low points for the Clintons, they typically come to the edge of the cliff and step back before they make a fatal error. My hope is that all this hype about their bitterness and rumored takeover will be 'handled' by the Obama campaign, and we will witness a democratic love fest. Hillary will handle herself with grace no matter what the circumstances and hopefully someone can help Bill understand that acting like a grown-up would do a great deal to improve his tarnished reputation.

The Clintons can recover with dignity and generate more good will than ever if they simply decide to let go of the bitterness.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 08/13/2008
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When will the Clintons give up?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:05 AM on 08/13/2008
- WFV I'm a Fan of WFV 13 fans permalink
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When everyone stops paying attention to them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 AM on 08/13/2008
- kdublya I'm a Fan of kdublya 123 fans permalink
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Trolliticians

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:43 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

Hopefully, after the convention!

They're going to be working to undermine Obama's administration for 8 years but hopefully the press will get tired of the Clintons. There will be more important things to talk about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:19 AM on 08/13/2008
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Give up? The Clinton's moto is to never give up no matter what? Win now and worry about the consequences later is what they believe in. They figure they can ruin Obama now and by the time next election rolls in 2012 enough time will have passed by the people will have forgotten about their backstabbing! They figure its doable because people in this country have short memories!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 AM on 08/13/2008

I will NEVER forget how they have handled this election. The Clintons are trying to have it both ways -- sabotaging Obama while giving a few speeches in support of him. I'm not fooled.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:21 AM on 08/13/2008

Bill Clinton has been the most successful president in the last 50 years and had a 64% popularity rating. Some of his accomplishments are highest employment, declining poverty rate and family medical leave act.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:24 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

Not all fights are noble.

The Clintons' ambition is for themselves and their patrons.

She was always fighting for herself. Not for her country or its people.

I do not admire that at all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 AM on 08/13/2008
- WillNYC I'm a Fan of WillNYC 7 fans permalink

scorch and burn politics..­.. one thing for sure if they screw with Obama's run for President.­.. she can hold her breath on 2012...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:39 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 255 fans permalink
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Here is the most cynical post I have ever done on this site or any site:

Then former President and First Lady Clinton, appearing together on the the platform because of a generous (possibly over-generous) spirit on the part of Obama, beamed at the sea of faces before them. Their speeches were done. It was time for the vote, and they looked at everyone as if to say, "Look at us! You know us! Your former, two-term president and your former (two-faced) first lady, people you KNOW and feel comfortable with. Recall how close the contest was and how much bullying and intimidating there was at those awful caucuses that Obama won, recall the sexism of the media during the contest, recall anything and everything you can think of that would make you hesitate at this moment. We offer ourselves to you, as we did once before, no one can doubt OUR patriotism, we're the all-American couple...a­nd we, unlike some, positively ooooze experience­."

They turn to go, then turn around again, they smile as one, as if to say, "And just in case you, like us, are worried that this country just isn't quite ready for a black president, please notice how very white we are."

Hope I haven't offended anyone, if I have, I am truly sorry. I do half believe that something like the above is going to happen in Denver.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 AM on 08/13/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

Nah, if anything the sight of them as you describe will have the exact opposite effect...i­t will remind supers exactly why they chose O'bama...h­e's their best chance to take back the White House without having to take back the C'lintons.

They'll stare at the image of the two of them on stage and their minds will enter a series of flashbacks to the circus of the 1990s.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:22 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 255 fans permalink
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Thanks, Jack, hope you're right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:27 AM on 08/13/2008
- WFV I'm a Fan of WFV 13 fans permalink
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I'm still not even sure I am going to watch their speeches. Who needs additional aggrivation?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:25 AM on 08/13/2008

I can no more listen to them as I can listen to Bush. It's like nails on a chalk board.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 PM on 08/13/2008
- roshni I'm a Fan of roshni 179 fans permalink

You have them spot on. They will not miss a sleazy trick.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

I'm sure that's exactly what her mantra "I'm more electable" meant: I'm white, he's not.

She never actually spit out why she was more electable. The racists she was speaking too understood.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:41 AM on 08/13/2008

Great post, "abby4ever"!

I just hope Obama never turns his back to these two! Despite their public words of support, it's clear that the knives are still "at the ready"! After running their disgracefully nasty "slash & burn" campaign, neither can be trusted!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 AM on 08/13/2008
- Triciann I'm a Fan of Triciann 3 fans permalink

I have always felt there is a problem with "all female" colleges. If by the age of 18 or 19 a young woman feels she has to be segregated from her male counterpart I question her motives and level of maturity. Although it is possible to graduate and integrate well into the work place, I think these colleges can develop the worst feminist tendencies in some women and they end up feeling so different to men that it stops them functioning properly as human-beings. This may be Hillary Clinton's problem.

Senator Clinton is no victim. She chose to marry and devote much of her energy to being a wife and mother (why only one child). Many women can identify with this but accept that it is going to affect their career prospects later in life. If Hillary had wanted she could and should have pursued her own career instead of choosing to support her husband in furthering his career. I presume that was their joint decision.

Possibly the "Monica affair" made Hillary regret her decisions but you can't turn back the clock and her husband's experience isn't hers. Possibly getting his wife elected as president is Bill's way of apologising to her for the way he behaved, although I think for Bill it's more to do with his own ego and power.

At this point if the Clinton's don't stop this schoolgirl behavior (PUMAs etc.) their legacy will be destroyed. The Clintons can stop it if they want.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:03 AM on 08/13/2008
- HHarvey I'm a Fan of HHarvey 28 fans permalink
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Good post Triciann. Never thought of it in that way, Bill's apology to Hillary is to help get her elected...­. hmmm.... good theory.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

Hillary is something of a phony when it comes to feminism.

She got into the Governor's mansion on her husband's arm. She got into the White House as "the wife." Her run for the Senate and everything that followed sprang from the advantages she gained from her husband.

She's one of those awful fake "feminists" who want to exploit the advantages of the old sexist system when they benefit her, and also to blame sexism for their every personal failure.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:22 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 255 fans permalink
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In my view, she is a complete phony in that respect. I can't anything in or about her that is a real example of real feminism.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 PM on 08/13/2008
- PlantGod72 I'm a Fan of PlantGod72 46 fans permalink
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And, of course, all the while covering for and enabling her hubby's philandering through BOTH institutions. She knew EXACTLY what she wanted, and she thought that keeping Bill in power and influence would help her get it.......a­nd it DID!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 PM on 08/13/2008
- loyldem I'm a Fan of loyldem 3 fans permalink

I do not remember the Clintons complaining about the caucuses in 1992 or 1996. Why now?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:03 AM on 08/13/2008
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 222 fans permalink

Bill ran with inspiration and plans.
Hillary ran on name recognition.

The former works in all types of voting. The latter is much less effective in caucuses.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 255 fans permalink
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Good point.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:48 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

I voted for Bill - twice - and supported him throughout his presidency. The fact remains that Bill won the White House the second time because of Ross Perot. He was lucky, and we were lucky to have a Democrat instead of Bob Dole. But he shouldn't let this go to his head quite so much.

The Clintons have no humility. Bill needs to realize this is not 1992. He isn't king of the mountain anymore. His time has passed, and Obama's time is coming.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:13 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

The Obama campaign did an amazing thing:

They sent out emails to their subscribed supporters telling them exactly how a caucus works and how to find out when and where to attend their own caucus.

People who have never attended a caucus often find the process confusing. Obama was brilliant to realize this problem and solve it.

He simply outmaneuvered Hillary on caucus attendance, like he has outmaneuvered her on so many other points. And the greater enthusiasm among his supporters made more of them turn out to caucus for the first time in their lives. I know this is true because they had 10x normal turnout in my caucus.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:03 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 255 fans permalink
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I didn't know any of this, thanks, olivia, for posting it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 AM on 08/13/2008
- WFV I'm a Fan of WFV 13 fans permalink
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I remember hearing about this (I don't live in a caucus state) and thought this is just one more reason to support his campaign. Smart. Forward thinking. Great.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 AM on 08/13/2008
- roshni I'm a Fan of roshni 179 fans permalink

Hillary completely underestimated Obama and his message and felt entitled to the position.
Obama did his homework behind the scenes and inspired people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:59 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

Another thing:

Obama's campaign worked their butts off in this red state. There were Obama activists among high school seniors, college students, people with tables passing out literature downtown, Obama volunteers buzzing around everywhere. The campaign headquarters in the center of town was often lit up and filled with people. Before I thought the primary season was in full swing, my high school kid is coming home saying, mom, I have to go to an Obama rally. The cutest, smartest girl in the senior class was getting out the vote, and I saw her working the lines at the caucus as we all stood in freezing rain waiting to get in, giving a "thumbs-up" to my son for being there.

I didn't see a single sign of Hillary's camp during the campaign season.

Hillary wrote off this red state. She didn't give a hoot about "our voices" here. Now she feels it's somehow unfair that Obama won this caucus with 76%.

I guess all her "experience" has some gaps in it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:29 AM on 08/13/2008

If any of you lived in a caucus state like I do (WA) you'd understand how phony and undemocratic that system is. Primaries are the ONLY fair way to handle things as zeaots can't take them over. For example, in 1974 (?) a bunch of us took over a Seattle Republican precinct caucus and had the votes to make it go for John Anderson, an anti-war rep. running against Nixon. It meant as little as Obama's "wins" against Hillary and which is why McGoofie might actually win. He couldn't have beat Hillary just like Obama couldn't in primaries.­.....

Bucko

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:59 AM on 08/13/2008
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Pssst. Hillary lost the nomination. Deal with it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:05 AM on 08/13/2008

Are "zeaots" the little voices in your head?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:27 AM on 08/13/2008
- WillNYC I'm a Fan of WillNYC 7 fans permalink

oh that explains how McCain beat Clinton in poll after poll about electability but Obama beat McCain on the same question..­.

Riddle me this: Why did the GOP want Hillary Clinton to be their opponent??? hmmmm

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 AM on 08/13/2008

If Hillary were the nominee, we would be treated to all the stories about Bill. Now wouldn't that be fun. The Republicans are certainly not going to reveal them now because they don't won't to do anything to help unite the Democrats.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:28 AM on 08/13/2008
- HHarvey I'm a Fan of HHarvey 28 fans permalink
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Well Bucko we all know where your priorities lie as you so pointedly referred to black people in this post.

"They don't need to worry. They'll still get their welfare checks when Hillary wins."

posted by you on May 02, 2008 at 08:24:55

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 AM on 08/13/2008

So you're saying that O's win in the WA PRIMARY was also "rigged"??? You are delusional.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 AM on 08/13/2008

Obama also won the Washington State beauty contest primary. And, look at the Washington polls -- Obama way ahead of McCain. That tells you something.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:24 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

If you repeat a lie enough,lpeople stop questioning it and it grows wings like the truth.

She never got 18 million votes. They each got 17 million something. Millions of hers were from Operation Chaos.

Shame on the party leaders for legitimizing her lie by including it in their party platform.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:57 AM on 08/13/2008
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 222 fans permalink

Yup, she gets "18 million" by rounding up, when she had something like 17.4 million.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:03 AM on 08/13/2008

And, don't forget all her votes from Puerto Rico.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:32 AM on 08/13/2008
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 222 fans permalink

Oh, and her popular vote calculation also includes votes from Michigan (all for her, 0 for O'bama) and Florida (again all for her, 0 for O'bama, despite him being on the ballot and receiving votes!)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:07 AM on 08/13/2008
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