Clintons Still Want To Kill Caucuses: The Latest Round

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First Posted: 08-12-08 11:08 AM   |   Updated: 09-12-08 05:12 AM

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Billhill

The Clintons hate the caucus system, and they want to see it die.

First they finished third in Iowa. Then they were out-organized by Barack Obama's campaign in the caucuses after Super Tuesday. Finally, they lost the showdown at the rules committee over how to reinstate delegates from the banned Michigan and Florida primaries.

According to one well-placed source, President Clinton himself is still raw over reports of caucus tampering in Iowa that he believes could have tilted the race in Barack Obama's favor, and has mentioned that possibility several times in conversation. A separate source who is also close to Clinton says the idea that people were "bused in" from Illinois to caucus is still a concern, as well. (The Iowa Democratic Party is not required by law to release its caucus rolls, and has not done so.)

In part, this fits with the pattern of retrospective analysis and persistent "what-if" thinking on the part of some Clinton officials, such as when communications director Howard Wolfson remarked on Fox News that John Edwards cost Sen. Clinton the nomination -- a claim that was later partially debunked.

So while a debate about the use of caucuses might seem moot to some, it remains terribly important to Clinton loyalists. And thus the battle over their use rages on -- sometimes in private, and sometimes in quasi-public forums. The most recent flash point was last weekend's DNC platform committee meeting in Pittsburgh. Included among over 100 proposed amendments to the party's platform was Amendment 93, which would have banned caucuses from future nominating contests.

Not surprisingly, it was a non-starter from the DNC's perspective. According to multiple sources, representatives for DNC Chairman Howard Dean ruled the proposed amendment out of order, since it spoke to a change in party rules, and referred it to the rules committee for a future discussion. Unlike other failed amendments, however, Amendment 93 was not even granted a debate at the platform meeting, a development which set some Clinton supporters on edge.

And after the fact, confusion over which draft of the amendment had even been rejected led to suspicion that it had been improperly referred to the rules committee in the first place.

Bob Remer, a Clinton delegate from Illinois who proposed the language of Amendment 93, told the Huffington Post he could only get a sentence or two out of his mouth before being interrupted at the meeting. Remer believes his preamble -- "The Democratic Party will practice its commitment to voting rights within our own nomination processes" -- would not have represented "a matter of mechanics or a change in rules."

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"I just thought i was premature to rule it out of order," he said. Referring to the surrogates at the platform meeting who represented Obama and the DNC, Remer said: "They could have made their case and had it voted down. They could have entertained a motion to table. But at least you'd have a debate. I was caught in mid-sentence."

Still, after that preamble, Remer's amendment pivoted into some pretty rule-impacting language. In part, it read: "Caucuses inherently disenfranchise the elderly, disabled, shift workers, single parents, and others whose circumstance prohibits participation in caucuses. The 2008 primaries illustrated that a caucus vote is worth more than a primary vote because each delegate elected by caucus represents fewer votes than each delegate elected by (a) primary."

The language also went on to assert that "party officials" and "aggressive participants" often assert coercion over voters that is immune from federal oversight. Thus, Remer wrote, the party should "forbid caucuses" in the future and require all states to hold primaries -- an expensive proposition that the DNC points out many states cannot afford.

Remer said he could understand why that language would be referred to the rules committee, though he believes the preamble could have been adopted on the basis of "principals and policy."

DNC platform member and prominent Clinton fundraiser Lynn Forester was even more explicit. In a statement to the Huffington Post, she said: "You must ask yourself, why would the Democratic Party reject the language of Amendment 93, saying the 'Democratic Party will practice its commitment to voting rights within its own nomination processes'? The fact that they used a technicality to deny this language as a statement of the Democratic Party's beliefs is a stain on this process."

While the DNC would not comment on the dispute except to describe it as an internal party matter, a source with knowledge of the committee's thinking said the platform meeting was not the appropriate time or place for the discussion. Noting that the document is meant to bring the party together and speak to broader goals, the source said the prospect of hashing out internecine party disputes was anathema to the DNC.

As for whether caucus rules could be properly addressed in the "voting rights" section of the platform, the source distinguished the party's rules for a private nominating contest from its support for the Federal Civil Voting Rights Act and the 14th amendment. (Indeed, a suit alleging that caucuses and primaries were "voting rights" issues was tossed by a federal judge earlier this year.)

The source also admitted that the DNC knows it has to address the problems of the caucus system and its proportional influence over the entire nominating process, but that it will take time, perhaps years, to properly thrash out the details.

For his part, Remer says that was his only goal. "They sort of said, we know the problem but don't bug me here," he recalled, laughing. But he insists he wasn't interested in calling Barack Obama's caucus wins into question after the fact. "This wasn't for the purpose of changing the course of history. Barack Obama is our nominee and I'm happy with that. I want to change the course of the future."

Forester, however, sees a broader alliance between Chairman Dean and Barack Obama that she feels is bad for the party. "Howard Dean's representative struck down Amendment 93," she said after the platform meeting, which she attended as an appointed Clinton representative. "Governor Dean is afraid of this language and that's an outrage. And by extension he's carrying Obama's water like he has through this whole nominating process. He is compromising the basic principle of one person, one vote, in order to give the nomination to Barack Obama and that means the Democratic party has a big problem."

Remer didn't come away totally disappointed from Saturday's platform meeting, however. Another one of his amendments passed, paving the way for a stronger position on guaranteed health care for all Americans. Another source from the Clinton side expressed gratitude that other Hillary-like language made it into the platform. "The Obama and Clinton people were definitely making an effort to reach out," the source said.

Perhaps the most prominent linguistic olive branch in the platform comes in a passage that reads: "Our party is proud that we have put 18 million cracks in the highest glass ceiling," echoing rhetoric that Sen. Clinton herself used when suspending her campaign.

Still, despite such sounds of harmony, the issue of caucuses is destined to come up again. Remer said he plans to address the rules committee on the matter -- an opportunity he could have as early as next week. Describing an epiphany that occurred while he was carrying a blind and disabled elderly woman up the stairs at an Iowa caucus site in January, he said he determined then and there that "this thing has got to go."

"It doesn't really matter who my candidate was," he said. "But I cut my teeth fighting elections fraud, for the sanctity of secret ballot. When we went to Iowa, I said, 'this is what we've been fighting against all these years in terms of election reform, my God!' Even when we thought our candidate was going to win, I said, 'It doesn't matter. It's very undemocratic.'"

The Clintons hate the caucus system, and they want to see it die. First they finished third in Iowa. Then they were out-organized by Barack Obama's campaign in the caucuses after Super Tuesday. Final...
The Clintons hate the caucus system, and they want to see it die. First they finished third in Iowa. Then they were out-organized by Barack Obama's campaign in the caucuses after Super Tuesday. Final...
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+ abby4ever See Profile I'm a Fan of abby4ever I'm a fan of this user
Yes, but if he ends up having the nomination taken away from him because of his generosity to H and her exploiting it to maximum advantage...

abby, no worries, Hill is not going to steal the nomination from O. I actually find it a bit amusing (as well as frustrating) that Hill & Bi-ll are destroying their political clout. They will never be viewed as leaders after this is all over. If O wins he will make certain that they are not instrumental in his new cabinet. If he loses the party will blame the Cl-in-tons. I think she will have a hard time getting re-elected as Senator.
The monicker "The comeback kid" which Bi-ll was dubbed does not apply to Hill. Her nickname will likely be
"the don't comeback kid".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:47 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 267 fans permalink
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Ok. I am happy to believe you because if I don't I am going to have a nervous breakdown.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:12 AM on 08/13/2008
- roshni I'm a Fan of roshni 182 fans permalink

I like it "the don't come back kid."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:58 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

165 delegates would have to change from Obama to Clinton.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 AM on 08/13/2008
- wendynyc I'm a Fan of wendynyc 12 fans permalink

I guess $110 million is not enough for the Clintons - they want to be back in the WH so they can make the rest of their corporate buddies happy - the ones they forgot the first time around. We have Billo to thank for over turning the Glass-Steagall Act and the current state of our media. We have Billo to thank for allowing non-labeled chemicals put into our milk and genetically altered food in our food supply.

Wake up America and look at what's going on in our country!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:43 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

I think they have enough money. They want another go at all the perks that go with the White House. Like their wealthy friend Lynn Forester de Rothschild honeymooning in the Lincoln bedroom. Puke. The vice presidency won't provide all that for them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:41 AM on 08/13/2008
- partyofone I'm a Fan of partyofone 45 fans permalink

Maureen Dowd's brilliant column (08-13-08) tells it like it is about the Clintons.

Among many insights she notes that Hillaray has put this self-serving language into the Democratic platform: “demeaning portrayals of women ... dampen the dreams of our daughters.

Says Dowd, "It would have been better to put this language in the platform: '"A woman who wildly mismanages and bankrupts a quarter-of-a-billion-dollar campaign operation, and then blames sexism in society, will dampen the dreams of our daughters' "

Right between the eyes, Hillary. Gotta LOVE Maureen.

www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/opinion/13dowd.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:04 AM on 08/13/2008
- whizkid I'm a Fan of whizkid 28 fans permalink

Dowd and brilliant in the same sentence?
Danger Will Robinson.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:07 AM on 08/13/2008

Maureen is right. Hillary's behaviour is DAMPENING the dreams of our daughters.

MEN DISLIKE MANIPULATIVE WOMEN, if thats our path to victory.

Democratic party elders were right. They didn't want Hillbill back in the white house.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:33 AM on 08/13/2008
- pupbayer I'm a Fan of pupbayer 23 fans permalink

Maureen is rarely right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:38 AM on 08/13/2008

Dowds column is spot on. There is no other way to interpret recent events and actions by both Cl-in-tons. I only hope the democratic party have the fortitude to tell them to take a hike....permanently.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:35 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 267 fans permalink
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rats, the link doesn't work, it says page can't be found, now what?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:42 AM on 08/13/2008

just google maureen dowd

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:08 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 267 fans permalink
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Good article, partyo...and I've heard everything now:

***In a video of a closed California fund-raiser on July 31 that surfaced on YouTube, Hillary was clearly receptive to having her name put in nomination and a roll-call vote. She said she thought it would be good for party unity if her gals felt “that their voices are heard.” But that’s disingenuous. Hillary was the one who raised the roll-call idea at the end of May with Democrats, who were urging her to face the math. She said she wanted it for Chelsea...***

Spare us, Hillary. Want it for Chelsea?? You want it for the reason Dowd gives, to mess up O's moment, and because you still harbor a hope that you can claw the nomination away from him at the last moment, I am sure you will be working toward that end from now until the last vote, including dropping more innuendos about O and how there is something that could harm him (so he might not win the general, hint, hint to the superdelegates), God help us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:58 AM on 08/13/2008

Being a single parent of a young woman it has pained me to watch the way Hill uses her daughter. I was livid that hill put Chel-sea in the position to have to lie for her mother regarding the landing in Bosnia. Now to use her daughter as one of the many excuses for her behavior of late is unforgivable. To put her lus-st for power ahead of family is reprehensible.
I can only describe this behavior as disp-ic-able.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:34 AM on 08/13/2008

The Clintons are having it both ways -- undermining behind the scenes while making a few support speeches. And Obama is still running against three candidates -- Bill, Hill and McCain. Under the circumstances, it is amazing that he's doing so well. That must really irritate the gruesome twosome.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:39 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 267 fans permalink
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From the Diane Tucker blog:

*** More than 250 diehard Hillary supporters were scheduled to meet this weekend at the Marriott Wardman Hotel here to plan their convention strategy. The group's online spokesperson said that the meeting, "PUMA Conference 2008," was "closed to media of any kind...


***Today I received this email from Bower: "The conference was moved to a new location. We made an agreement with all our participants that we would treat the proceedings as confidential. There was a great deal of information that was generated that our members want to disseminate to their colleagues in their own way."***

I can't see any way that this is convention is going to be anything but an unedifying spectacle, hope I am am wrong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:00 AM on 08/13/2008

The conference was moved to a new location.

Of course it was, they wouldn't want the media to report that 50 people showed instead of the whopping 250 that were expected.

lol, what a joke.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:38 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 267 fans permalink
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I hadn't thought of that. But I still think there's going to be trouble even if there are only five pumas, not all her supporters are pumas, i.e. some never were.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:45 AM on 08/13/2008
- Tropiholic I'm a Fan of Tropiholic 20 fans permalink

did it take place in one of the gal's basements?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:02 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 267 fans permalink
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scandal, WHAT is THIS?:

Obama also allowed Hillary supporters to insert an absurd statement into the platform suggesting that media sexism spurred her loss and that “demeaning portrayals of women ... dampen the dreams of our daughters.

Tell me he didn't. Why won't he stand up to her? Why DID he give them primetime back-to-back speaking slots? I am really upset about all this, they are shoving him around, he betger be careful, as some other posters have said today. Forget getting tough with McDesperate, he needs to sort this mess out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:07 AM on 08/13/2008
- reliant1 I'm a Fan of reliant1 24 fans permalink
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the kittie den is saying this morning they did not get the expected donations for their 'bus fund'....

and they have a whopping 20 grand budget for denver...

kind of pathetic support from 18 million...

lol

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:58 AM on 08/13/2008
- Falafel I'm a Fan of Falafel 10 fans permalink
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There's a great article in today's New York Observer about this "conference" (well, if you want to call a bunch of people sitting around a table complaining about something that happened months ago a conference.) There were 60 people in attendance and they kept their location private because they were concerned about Obama supporters being disruptive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

"a great deal of information generated"

Yep. That's what they do. Generate information. Instead of gathering and presenting facts. They make stuff up.

Read their websites. It's all "do you think it could be" "I'm wondering..." "My guess is that..." because they don't have any facts to support their silly allegations. It's just one Obama smear after another, based on stuff they just make up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 AM on 08/13/2008

It's sad, in a way, that Hillary is essentially vomiting herself out of the political world. Had she accepted her defeat gracefully, she'd be an easy pick for a cabinet post or judgeship. Instead, the public revulsion at her tactics is so deep that she's basically roadkill.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:40 AM on 08/13/2008
- whizkid I'm a Fan of whizkid 28 fans permalink

Actually, more voted for Hillary.
But keep up this posture.
You too can be a bitter Democrat.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:26 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 267 fans permalink
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I wonder if, after O is officially made the nominee, you will stop all this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:43 AM on 08/13/2008

Whiz

Today is a new day. You back at it again? COme on. O won

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:30 AM on 08/13/2008
- vippy I'm a Fan of vippy 77 fans permalink

Hillary did not have many supporters and that was visible in her funds. She was closed to Obama yet her money was off. However, most were from Operation Chaos who called Limbaugh and stated they voted for Hillary to distort the numbers. That was obvious when Obama was way ahead in funds and Hillary was at least $ 20 million in debt. If she had 18 million and everyone
gave just one dollar, do the math. We cannot believe everything someone says when it does not add up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:06 AM on 08/13/2008
- reliant1 I'm a Fan of reliant1 24 fans permalink
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how many primaries did she win vs o?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:00 AM on 08/13/2008
- HHarvey I'm a Fan of HHarvey 30 fans permalink
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What you really meant to say Whizkid is that more "republicans" voted for Hillary. We bitter democrats are well aware of this operation chaos.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 AM on 08/13/2008
- partyofone I'm a Fan of partyofone 45 fans permalink

I cannot believe the Clintons. The majority of Americans rjected Hillary Clinton as a Democratic primary candidate. She would lose a presidential election by a landsilde. Yet she and Bill, the eternal victims, are waging assault on Obama, who took the high road the Clintons have never seen, and deated them. And they are assaulting the Democratic process, trying to change the rules to give Hillary an advantage.

The morer information that comes out about Hillary's leadership and management of her own campaign says she is not qualified to be presdent. She was not ready at 3am or day one to stort out the various advice she got from her staff, advisors and consultants and make her own decision. As a result, she had a confused , dishonets, debt-ridden, and untlimately failed campaign.

The faccts now seem to show that caucuses or not, Democratic primary voters made the right decision in rejecting Mrs. Bill Clinton's bid for the presidency.

Maybe the experience of the Bush-Rove-Clinton 16 years of lies and divisions have made us wiser.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:10 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 267 fans permalink
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I am so sick and tired of hearing Hillary talk about how her and her supporters should be shown 'respect' and 'sensitivity', and how they need time for 'healing'. I don't deny the disappointment of some of them, I know it's real and painful, but she is just exploiting that reality to turn her loss into some kind of women's group bawling session. That has no place in politics, especially from a woman who during her campaign boasted that she was the tougher, stronger candidate. I can't stand the way she uses her supporters, uses their real disappointment, to her own advantage.

Bill and Hillary: the bruiser and the user.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:08 AM on 08/13/2008
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I too am tired Hillary, and the notion that her supporters should be shown extra-special respect.

Obama went out and beat the bricks off of Hillary. He won more than 30 states. Hillary didn't even win 20 states.

Obama's strategy in the caucuses is paying off for him right now. Remember the ALASKA Caucus? Well, Obama won that contests on SUPER TUESDAY, and did so well, that his energy and grass roots organizing powered a record turnout. I'm sure his attention to Alaska, apart of his vaunted "50 State Strategy", is the reason he is not up on McCain in this Ruby Red State: http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/08/poll_obama_leading_in_deepred.php.

Hillary supporters should be quiet about the caucuses and primaries and work on electing Obama. He beat Hillary, who ran a quentessentially piss poor camapign.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:16 AM on 08/13/2008
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sorry...I meant to write that Obama's 50 State Strategy IS the reason he's up on McCain in Ruby Red ALASKA. That is what the link was about!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:24 AM on 08/13/2008
- whizkid I'm a Fan of whizkid 28 fans permalink

What you've done to others, they'll do unto you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:40 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 267 fans permalink
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Yes, whiz, and that is exactly the note you should write to Bill and Hillary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:44 AM on 08/13/2008
- whizkid I'm a Fan of whizkid 28 fans permalink

abby
Which makes no sense whatsoever.
More likely a note to Axelrove.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:52 AM on 08/13/2008

This is why the CLINTONS are done politically.

They lack class and grace. Even if Hillary is nominated now, she will not win the election. AFrican Americans will not vote, much men will not vote, independents will not vote for her either.

Ka-Ching.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:34 AM on 08/13/2008
- roshni I'm a Fan of roshni 182 fans permalink

Hillary is finished politically. Her behavior will be remembered in 2012 if she causes Obma to lose with her histrionics.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:03 AM on 08/13/2008
- serena1313 I'm a Fan of serena1313 46 fans permalink

I was a delegate for Obama. What took place is nothing like what the Clintons describe.

I live in Texas so I cannot speak for Iowans, but from what I've read the caucuses are fairly uniform. So it is highly doubtful a busload of people were bused-in unnoticed. First of all, delegates are required to produce identification when checking in. Secondly the 2 caucuses I attended as a delegate not one bad incident occurred.

Why I support the caucus is it gives grass-roots a chance to participate rather than just the inside party loyalists. It makes the election more meaningful. I felt [still do] so strongly about electing Obama that I actually got involved -- something I had never done previously. It was a first for most who attended, too.

Imagine Clinton supporters and Obama supporters, wealthy, middle-class, poor, blacks and whites, Native Americans, Latinos, Hispanics and Asians etc. all together under one roof and not one quarrel. United in commitment and focused on one goal: to get a Democrat elected built a strong sense of camaraderie not the divisive nonsense posted on political boards.

BTW Obama won both Texas caucuses.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 AM on 08/13/2008
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I participated in the Washington State CAUCUS. It was truly amazing.

Because the Washington Caucus this year had 240,000 participants, it was indeed the biggest political caucus ever recorded in the United States. In my room sat about 500 people. The Hillary side had 102 people, and the rest were Obama supporters. On the Hillary side, there were "older, middle-aged white women, a sprinkle of white men, and a wheelchair-bound Native-American. I looked closely and that's all I saw.

But on my side, among the Obama supporters, was splendedly cosmopolitan crowd: whites, latinos, Native-Americans, Asian Pacific Americans, Arab-Americans, African-Americans, interracial couples, veterans, peace activists, deeply religious folks, secular progressives (like myself), professors, students, and all kinds of categories in between and at the margins. It was absolutely amazing.

But Hillary couldn't brag about that kind of rich diversity. All around Washington, her main support came from a majority of WHITE WOMEN 55 and over. That's a fact that played itself out across the country. In fact, from what I see, ALL of the "hundreds" of angered PUMAS are...white women 55 and older.

I wish the Obama and Hillary forces could rfeconcile, but that will not happen until after Obama's victory in November.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:49 AM on 08/13/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 27 fans permalink

Not all white women over 55.

My parents have been voting since 1968, and they are voting for a Democratic presidential candidate for the first time in their lives, and it's O'bama's doing. They wouldn't vote for H'illary if their life depended on it...I wouldn't either.

This must be a common situation in ND, because after Bush won it by about 25 points both times, the state is essentially tied this time around.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:52 AM on 08/13/2008
- LarBear I'm a Fan of LarBear 30 fans permalink
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SeanGardner.... Try some fact without spin...

Washington State... Caucuses won by Obama 2 to 1 over Hillary... Primary that "didn't count" under DNC, Rules made... Obama won by 5%... Obamacrats have no objections to manipulated Voting.... Well, except when it is Republicans doing so... (Unless it Favors obama of course)

So, Please explain how in the Vote where 1,257,858 Primary Voters Voted, Obama only got 5% more then Hillary... Cuacuses are a poor reflection as that proves...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:09 PM on 08/13/2008

serena1313: You must not have been at the caucus I was at or any of the ones in Houston, Dallas/Fort Worth, or surrounding areas. The local papers reported on the number of complaints by caucus goers who were intimidated by Obama supporters so you must not have read a newspaper during that time either.
The local precinct level is where the intimidation occurred and the Senate level was calm because Obama was already the presumptive nominee because the superdelegates had already put Obama over the top as they were paid to do.
You said, "Imagine Clinton supporters and Obama supporters, wealthy, middle-class, poor, blacks and whites, Native Americans, Latinos, Hispanics and Asians etc. all together under one roof and not one quarrel."
You must live in a dream world because that is not what I witnessed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:04 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 267 fans permalink
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I don't believe you, but even if I did, do you suppose there is anyone in politics as intimidating as Bill Clinton? The Clintons are bullies and it is therefore very rich for either of them to be making this kind of charge.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:45 AM on 08/13/2008
- Tropiholic I'm a Fan of Tropiholic 20 fans permalink

you "witnessed" that in your head roflmao! who told you to spew that tripe?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:04 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 267 fans permalink
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This tale of bussing in voters, by Bill, is right out of the history books about the deep south, it goes as far back as Reconstruction, say, in Georgia, where the north brought wagons full of blacks into Atlanta to vote...sometimes two and three times. And even though instances of this kind of thing happened more recently than that, he is just borrowing from it to cast seeds of doubt.

He so full of cr*p.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:38 AM on 08/13/2008
- roshni I'm a Fan of roshni 182 fans permalink

Bill keeps saying he's not a racist and then he makes comments like this which stir up racial divisions.
Shame on him!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:04 AM on 08/13/2008
- whizkid I'm a Fan of whizkid 28 fans permalink

Why do Clinton supporters sound prescient and noble while Obama supporters seem
so highly aggrieved and without knowledge?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:22 AM on 08/13/2008
- Aleka4 I'm a Fan of Aleka4 47 fans permalink

Wow, you need a new thesaurus.

"whining" "spiteful" "sour" and "childish" do not mean the same thing as "noble" and "prescient". I am sorry you are confused.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 AM on 08/13/2008
- whizkid I'm a Fan of whizkid 28 fans permalink

aleka
Could you be even more helpful in proving my point?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:38 AM on 08/13/2008
- partyofone I'm a Fan of partyofone 45 fans permalink

whizkid, to my ear Clinton followers sound sanctimonious, self-interested, dishonest and shrill.... just like the Clintons themselves... birds of a feather .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:23 AM on 08/13/2008
- JimR I'm a Fan of JimR 40 fans permalink

Why do Clinton supporters sound so bitter?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:32 AM on 08/13/2008
- roshni I'm a Fan of roshni 182 fans permalink

Noble? What are you smoking?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:05 AM on 08/13/2008
- PoliJunkie I'm a Fan of PoliJunkie 17 fans permalink

Please guys/gals do all you can to help getting people informed by electing BO the next POTUS. We cannot be divided in our disdain by what others say. BO is the presumptive nominee of the party and it will be within a few days (weeks) where he will be the true NOMINEE. We cannot be swayed or disheartened by what others say or do. We should all come together to get rid of this current administration. WE can only sway those who are willing to listen logically. Others will NEVER be swayed. This is a positive moment in our country and we must focus on the candidate that will LEAD this country in a NEW direction. YES WE CAN!!!! We are too smart and intelligent to let divisiveness destroy us. Work your hardest to make sure BO will win this thing. Go to district offices and volunteer. There are many phone calls to be made and we need not waste negative energy on the opponent (HRC/WJC). After this election we will have time to reflect and understand why we voted for this wonderful candidate. No one can take away this movement. I ask all of YOU (O supporters) to please stay focused. Time is a-wasting and we can ALL better this country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:18 AM on 08/13/2008

As much as I like Obama, I have a hard time telling the difference between the Republican party
and the Democratic party. I wish I could dicipher where the Republican party ends and where the
Democrat party begins. Too MANY Democrats are DINOS. I support either Ron Paul or Obama
for President and ideally speaking, Ron Paul would be Obama's veep choice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:47 AM on 08/13/2008

My comment about Republicans and Democrats pretty much being one and the same party disappeared. Many Dems are 'Democrats In Name Only'--DINO's. So I will be rethinking whether
I will be lending my support to Obama or Ron Paul before the November election. R Paul should be made Obama's Veep in my opinion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:01 AM on 08/13/2008
- meanguy I'm a Fan of meanguy 17 fans permalink

cool...dual cult membership-yippee for you!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:31 AM on 08/13/2008
- Shelly1970 I'm a Fan of Shelly1970 11 fans permalink

If you don't like losing caucuses in your state, go to the caucus. Pretty simple.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:12 AM on 08/13/2008
- partyofone I'm a Fan of partyofone 45 fans permalink

But that would be honest, fair, and democratic.... not something the Clintons and their followers are ever likely to understand. Democracy only works properly when they win. Just like for Bush, the Constitution, the laws and party rules are an inconvience.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:26 AM on 08/13/2008
- meanguy I'm a Fan of meanguy 17 fans permalink

why is it that obama did so well in caucus states and not quite so well in 'secret ballot' states?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:29 AM on 08/13/2008
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Oh all you people with all your votes for the other candidate. It's all your fault, I didn't win!! Oh America, with all your democracy at work, it's all your fault, I didn't win!! Oh sun you and all your shine, it all your fault!! I didn't win!! Oh life you and all your twists and turns it's all your fault!! I didn't win!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 AM on 08/13/2008
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Oh Donna B it's all your, I didn't win!! Oh John Edward it all you fault , I didn't win !!! Oh Team Hillary it's all your fault, I didn't win!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:51 AM on 08/13/2008
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Shhhhhhhhh, do you hear that it the worlds tiniest violins being played by the Clintons? Papa, Can you hear me ??Papa, Can you see me?? Channeling my inner Yentl!! LMAO

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:01 AM on 08/13/2008
- kcam44 I'm a Fan of kcam44 13 fans permalink
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It's Obama's fault..how dare he run such an organized campaign..how dare he conduct himself in such a dignified manner...how dare he steal the black vote..how dare he turn the other cheek when the kitchen sink was thrown at him...how dare he win Iowa (with all those white people)....how dare he give a speech on race when the Rev Wright controversy was supposed to end his campaign...how dare he raise so much money on the internet...how dare he do this to me and my family..this was my time, Bill was so anxious to get back in the White House

wah!!! wah!! wah!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 AM on 08/13/2008
- whizkid I'm a Fan of whizkid 28 fans permalink

Remember when Cruella Brazile said she'd quit the party
if superdelegates didn't vote as their state and district?
We anxiously look forward to your resignation Donna.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:48 AM on 08/13/2008
- utd I'm a Fan of utd 19 fans permalink
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Be sure to hold your breath while you wait. It will save us the trouble of watching you getting get rubber bulleted at the convention while you protest your fake moral indignation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 AM on 08/13/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 27 fans permalink

Actually she said she'd quit if the superdelegates overturned the outcome of the nomination process in palce at its outset.

And as hard as H'illary tried to get them to (popular vote is what matters!, caucuces don't count!, Michigan and Florida were legitimate primaries!, I'm winning the electoral college!)... they didn't.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:55 AM on 08/13/2008
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