Clintons Still Want To Kill Caucuses: The Latest Round

digg Share this on Facebook Huffpost - Clintons Still Want To Kill Caucuses: The Latest Round stumble reddit del.ico.us RSS


First Posted: 08-12-08 11:08 AM   |   Updated: 09-12-08 05:12 AM

I Like ItI Don’t Like It
Billhill

The Clintons hate the caucus system, and they want to see it die.

First they finished third in Iowa. Then they were out-organized by Barack Obama's campaign in the caucuses after Super Tuesday. Finally, they lost the showdown at the rules committee over how to reinstate delegates from the banned Michigan and Florida primaries.

According to one well-placed source, President Clinton himself is still raw over reports of caucus tampering in Iowa that he believes could have tilted the race in Barack Obama's favor, and has mentioned that possibility several times in conversation. A separate source who is also close to Clinton says the idea that people were "bused in" from Illinois to caucus is still a concern, as well. (The Iowa Democratic Party is not required by law to release its caucus rolls, and has not done so.)

In part, this fits with the pattern of retrospective analysis and persistent "what-if" thinking on the part of some Clinton officials, such as when communications director Howard Wolfson remarked on Fox News that John Edwards cost Sen. Clinton the nomination -- a claim that was later partially debunked.

So while a debate about the use of caucuses might seem moot to some, it remains terribly important to Clinton loyalists. And thus the battle over their use rages on -- sometimes in private, and sometimes in quasi-public forums. The most recent flash point was last weekend's DNC platform committee meeting in Pittsburgh. Included among over 100 proposed amendments to the party's platform was Amendment 93, which would have banned caucuses from future nominating contests.

Not surprisingly, it was a non-starter from the DNC's perspective. According to multiple sources, representatives for DNC Chairman Howard Dean ruled the proposed amendment out of order, since it spoke to a change in party rules, and referred it to the rules committee for a future discussion. Unlike other failed amendments, however, Amendment 93 was not even granted a debate at the platform meeting, a development which set some Clinton supporters on edge.

And after the fact, confusion over which draft of the amendment had even been rejected led to suspicion that it had been improperly referred to the rules committee in the first place.

Bob Remer, a Clinton delegate from Illinois who proposed the language of Amendment 93, told the Huffington Post he could only get a sentence or two out of his mouth before being interrupted at the meeting. Remer believes his preamble -- "The Democratic Party will practice its commitment to voting rights within our own nomination processes" -- would not have represented "a matter of mechanics or a change in rules."

Story continues below
advertisement

"I just thought i was premature to rule it out of order," he said. Referring to the surrogates at the platform meeting who represented Obama and the DNC, Remer said: "They could have made their case and had it voted down. They could have entertained a motion to table. But at least you'd have a debate. I was caught in mid-sentence."

Still, after that preamble, Remer's amendment pivoted into some pretty rule-impacting language. In part, it read: "Caucuses inherently disenfranchise the elderly, disabled, shift workers, single parents, and others whose circumstance prohibits participation in caucuses. The 2008 primaries illustrated that a caucus vote is worth more than a primary vote because each delegate elected by caucus represents fewer votes than each delegate elected by (a) primary."

The language also went on to assert that "party officials" and "aggressive participants" often assert coercion over voters that is immune from federal oversight. Thus, Remer wrote, the party should "forbid caucuses" in the future and require all states to hold primaries -- an expensive proposition that the DNC points out many states cannot afford.

Remer said he could understand why that language would be referred to the rules committee, though he believes the preamble could have been adopted on the basis of "principals and policy."

DNC platform member and prominent Clinton fundraiser Lynn Forester was even more explicit. In a statement to the Huffington Post, she said: "You must ask yourself, why would the Democratic Party reject the language of Amendment 93, saying the 'Democratic Party will practice its commitment to voting rights within its own nomination processes'? The fact that they used a technicality to deny this language as a statement of the Democratic Party's beliefs is a stain on this process."

While the DNC would not comment on the dispute except to describe it as an internal party matter, a source with knowledge of the committee's thinking said the platform meeting was not the appropriate time or place for the discussion. Noting that the document is meant to bring the party together and speak to broader goals, the source said the prospect of hashing out internecine party disputes was anathema to the DNC.

As for whether caucus rules could be properly addressed in the "voting rights" section of the platform, the source distinguished the party's rules for a private nominating contest from its support for the Federal Civil Voting Rights Act and the 14th amendment. (Indeed, a suit alleging that caucuses and primaries were "voting rights" issues was tossed by a federal judge earlier this year.)

The source also admitted that the DNC knows it has to address the problems of the caucus system and its proportional influence over the entire nominating process, but that it will take time, perhaps years, to properly thrash out the details.

For his part, Remer says that was his only goal. "They sort of said, we know the problem but don't bug me here," he recalled, laughing. But he insists he wasn't interested in calling Barack Obama's caucus wins into question after the fact. "This wasn't for the purpose of changing the course of history. Barack Obama is our nominee and I'm happy with that. I want to change the course of the future."

Forester, however, sees a broader alliance between Chairman Dean and Barack Obama that she feels is bad for the party. "Howard Dean's representative struck down Amendment 93," she said after the platform meeting, which she attended as an appointed Clinton representative. "Governor Dean is afraid of this language and that's an outrage. And by extension he's carrying Obama's water like he has through this whole nominating process. He is compromising the basic principle of one person, one vote, in order to give the nomination to Barack Obama and that means the Democratic party has a big problem."

Remer didn't come away totally disappointed from Saturday's platform meeting, however. Another one of his amendments passed, paving the way for a stronger position on guaranteed health care for all Americans. Another source from the Clinton side expressed gratitude that other Hillary-like language made it into the platform. "The Obama and Clinton people were definitely making an effort to reach out," the source said.

Perhaps the most prominent linguistic olive branch in the platform comes in a passage that reads: "Our party is proud that we have put 18 million cracks in the highest glass ceiling," echoing rhetoric that Sen. Clinton herself used when suspending her campaign.

Still, despite such sounds of harmony, the issue of caucuses is destined to come up again. Remer said he plans to address the rules committee on the matter -- an opportunity he could have as early as next week. Describing an epiphany that occurred while he was carrying a blind and disabled elderly woman up the stairs at an Iowa caucus site in January, he said he determined then and there that "this thing has got to go."

"It doesn't really matter who my candidate was," he said. "But I cut my teeth fighting elections fraud, for the sanctity of secret ballot. When we went to Iowa, I said, 'this is what we've been fighting against all these years in terms of election reform, my God!' Even when we thought our candidate was going to win, I said, 'It doesn't matter. It's very undemocratic.'"

The Clintons hate the caucus system, and they want to see it die. First they finished third in Iowa. Then they were out-organized by Barack Obama's campaign in the caucuses after Super Tuesday. Final...
The Clintons hate the caucus system, and they want to see it die. First they finished third in Iowa. Then they were out-organized by Barack Obama's campaign in the caucuses after Super Tuesday. Final...
Report Corrections
 
Comments
1931
Pending Comments
0
iPhone App Promo

Want to reply to a comment? Hint: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to

View Comments:
Page: « First ‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next › Last » (36 pages total)

As I recall they complained about the proportionate delegate system too and thought it should be winner take all (in fact Mark Penn thought they WERE winner take all according to Time Magazine)! Nothing about our electoral system is good enough for these whiners.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 AM on 08/13/2008

Does the 'witch in the pantsuit' own a dress or skirt of any kind? I don't think I've ever seen Hill
the pill wear one even one time.

Anyone who feels that Hillary was mistreated by the MSM or discriminated against by voters should view her abyssmal voting record. Her voting record was in lockstep with the Republicans when it came down to the most serious of matters like invading Iraq who didn't cause 911 and wasn't a threat to us and giving W unlimited powers to do as he damn well pleased. [You can view her or any other US Senators voting record by going to the WashingtonPost website and clicking on politics at the top and then Congress] Sorry Bill but Hillary brought ALL of her losses in the caucuses and primaries on herself.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 AM on 08/13/2008

My bad! I believe Hillary wore a dress (both times) to her husband's Innaugural Ball! What a sight that would be if Hillary showed up in a pantsuit at any formal event like that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 AM on 08/13/2008

My bad, she wore a dress both times that she attended her husband's Innaugural Ball.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:18 AM on 08/13/2008
- SSF I'm a Fan of SSF 34 fans permalink
photo

The Clintons are a couple who feel themselves somehow entitled to run this country but who did, in fact sell out their Principles for Profits a long time ago! They are both nothing more than a pair of exploiters who advance their own interests at the expense of the rest of us!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 AM on 08/13/2008
- partyofone I'm a Fan of partyofone 45 fans permalink

The arrogance of the Clintons is that they have peddled influence to coproations and foreign inlfuences to become mega-millionaires but DEMAND That they be given the respect that they deserve... Message to Bill and Hillrary.... you are just beggining to feel the heat of the "respect you deserve." Your days of public influence are fading fast, and faster everytime you elbow your way into thespotlight. Retire.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:32 AM on 08/13/2008
- whizkid I'm a Fan of whizkid 28 fans permalink

The rampant paranoia here among Obama's Children of the Corn is disturbing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 267 fans permalink
photo

I'd rather be a child of the corn than a child of the dam*ed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:38 AM on 08/13/2008

Obama won the Corn Belt is what Whiz Kid is refering to.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 AM on 08/13/2008
- soapington I'm a Fan of soapington 42 fans permalink
photo

You mean the anxiety among Democratic voters is understandable?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:44 AM on 08/13/2008
- kcam44 I'm a Fan of kcam44 13 fans permalink
photo

the rampant deceit and animosity of the Clintons is disturbing too. can we move on now?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:45 AM on 08/13/2008
- lvogt I'm a Fan of lvogt 26 fans permalink

I have no objections to eliminating the caucus system now for the next election cycle but since private state organizations decide how to choose their candidates... good luck.
I would like to see paper ballots and a unified non-electronic voting system by then also but I'm not optimistic.
As for the Clintons being robbed: I find that hilarious since they had more insider power, savvy and experience than any non-incumbent candidate in history. They got beaten. So cry me a frackin river Bill.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 AM on 08/13/2008
- partyofone I'm a Fan of partyofone 45 fans permalink

Great point. Hillary began with more advantages than any presidential candidate in hisotry. She had one major disadvantage, however, that she could not overcome and it proved the fatal flaw: she is Hillary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:34 AM on 08/13/2008
- sharonh I'm a Fan of sharonh 229 fans permalink
photo

Really off point, but to end my night another by one of my heroes.

"From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put."

Spoken like a true politician, eh?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:12 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 267 fans permalink
photo

Excellent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:40 AM on 08/13/2008
photo

Really off point, but NOT to end my night by quotes from Hillary and her surrogates, NOT some of my favorite people:

"Caucuses are appoinment democracy" - Terry McAuliffe

"Red State delegates are second class delegates" - Clinton Delegate Joel Ferguson

Move.orgg is in caucus states intimidating my constituencies" - Clinton at a fundraiser in Feb.

And then these two gems from Clinton:

"There is no reason to believe that, as far as I know" - on 60 MINUTES on whether Obama is muslim

"Obama is losing support among hard working, white americans" - on Obama and white voters


Spoken like wretchedly painful losers, eh?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:18 AM on 08/13/2008
- seanosul I'm a Fan of seanosul 3 fans permalink

Are these proposals from the same set of "Hillary Democrats" that suggested the Party should introduce the draft due to the popularity of Obama amongst young people? Ultimately they have one aim - and helping democrats win is not it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:04 AM on 08/13/2008
- SKayum I'm a Fan of SKayum 2 fans permalink

this web site has really become a joke; and if it is fair it will agree me - after all it has spent much time judging others by the crowds they gather.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:51 AM on 08/13/2008
photo

Its funny though, being that the Clintons won two caucuses, Nevada and New Mexico. So they weren't completely shut out. But the fact that another candidate won a whopping 14 caucuses, well, to them that means the system is "unfair". And nothing can be further from the truth.

I disagree with this line from the Clinton delegate: "Caucuses inherently disenfranchise the elderly, disabled, shift workers, single parents, and others whose circumstance prohibits participation in caucuses." How can that be when during the Nevada Caucus, businesses like Las Vegas Casinos actually made it easy for their employees to vote, by approving their ballrooms for Caucus sights? And who won that caucus? CLINTON! My point in mentioning this is simple: why not aggressively engage industries in caucus states to make it easier for their employees to vote, and, changing the times to fit the maximum amount of participation in their state - instead of demonizing the process?

Caucus systems are not problematic. But if you're Hillary Clinton and you failed to capture the imagination of most Democrats, and you were legally, wholeheartedly and pitifully out-maneuvered, out-organized, and out-fundraised in the Caucus states, then yes, you and your supporters would find caucuses problematic.

In the end, Hillary over-estimated herself, and under-estimated Obama. Caucuses weren't the problem. Clintonian arrogance was.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 AM on 08/13/2008
- TrueIndy08 I'm a Fan of TrueIndy08 31 fans permalink

"In the end, Hillary over-estimated herself, and under-estimated Obama. Caucuses weren't the problem. Clintonian arrogance was."

You hit the nail on the head...

remember the interview with Katie Couric when she kept saying over and over again that she WOULD be the nominee????

Guess that didn't work out too well!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:54 AM on 08/13/2008
photo

Absolutely.

No matter how they spin it and embroider the truth, Hillary is not the nominee because she ran up against a better candidate. In addition to not competing as vigorously as she should have in the caucuses, Hillary also:

- Hillary misread the mood of the country - Hillary ran as an "experienced incumbent" and Obama ran as an "agent of change".

- Hillary didn't have a long-term strategy - Remember what Clinton said in December 2007? She was asked whether she had a longterm stretegy, to which she answered yes, and then uttered "But it will all be over on Feb 5th (Super Tuesday)". But she miscalculated.

- Hillary relied exclusively on "OLD MONEY" - The Clinton campaign urged their BIG MONEY supporters to give the maximum, while Obama targeted millions of smaller donors, and that kept him competitive and financially healthy.

- Hillary picked people for their loyalty, and not for their expertise - Obama's team was young, hungry, and knew the rules. Clinton's team was stacked with know-it-all Clinton veterans who squabbled with each other.

Blaming the caucus sytem won't work. If Hillary ran a better campaign, she would have been the nominee. Time to move on.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:05 AM on 08/13/2008
- suzyhein I'm a Fan of suzyhein 63 fans permalink
photo

useyourbrain, the only one trash talking anyone here is you. gfy

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:49 AM on 08/13/2008
- WolfLarsen I'm a Fan of WolfLarsen 34 fans permalink

I personally think all the caucuses should be eliminated along with the Electoral College as well. One person....one vote. If a society were building a democracy do you think they would emulate our current system? Hell no! Unless they wanted corruption, manipulation and double dealing. Our voting system is a disgrace. It should be uniform with all votes recorded on a paper ballot.

But that is not the way it is unfortunately. To say Obama rigged the system while the Clinton's played it straight is naive at best and ignorant at its worse. They knew the rules and only started complaining about it after they started losing. Call it hubris. Call it arrogance but please don't call it ignorance of the rules. Pretty weak Bill.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 AM on 08/13/2008

True Democracy is "MOB RULE" and is not what the founders had in mind. Look at the influence that Hamas has attained in Palestine because of true democracy. Representative Government was instituted by the Founding Fathers because of the inherent "checks and balances" built into our Constitution.
If everyone voted, Democracy would work, just like Communism in its purest form would be utopia. The way it is now, only a few activists determine who will be the next President and we all are subjected to the whims of the few. Superdelegates were the stop-gap in the Democratic Party but the almighty dollar got in the way. Political donations were the determining factor in who would be the next President rather than experience and ability. This Country is electing the Prom King instead of the leader of the free world. HEAVEN HELP US.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:34 AM on 08/13/2008
- genseric13 I'm a Fan of genseric13 6 fans permalink

We need as much democracy as possible throughout the entire process. Anything other then 1 person, 1 vote, invites tricksters, charlatans, holligans and intimidators. Dems and Repubs should not be allowed to cross over and vote. People should not be allowed to change their affiliation right before a primary. Students should not be bussed in from Chicago to affect a primary. Let's cut out all the BS and just have some good solid democratic primaries.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 AM on 08/13/2008

I think each state should have the right to make a decison on how it wants to have it's primary. This should never be left to the candidates. The primary is a chose of the voters of the state not the candidates.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 AM on 08/13/2008
- genseric13 I'm a Fan of genseric13 6 fans permalink

Caucuses are designed so that the fanatics will exert more influence then their ONE vote should give them. Just have a primary and let each person vote. What's the problem?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 AM on 08/13/2008
- sharonh I'm a Fan of sharonh 229 fans permalink
photo

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:31 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

This "let's change all the rules that don't benefit ME" campaign is unseemly and extremely transparent.

Don't those Clintons have any pride left at all?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:14 AM on 08/13/2008
- sharonh I'm a Fan of sharonh 229 fans permalink
photo

I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he excites among his opponents.

Sir Winston Churchill

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:25 AM on 08/13/2008
- suzyhein I'm a Fan of suzyhein 63 fans permalink
photo

what does that say about W?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:28 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

We don't need a politician. We need a leader.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 AM on 08/13/2008
- suzyhein I'm a Fan of suzyhein 63 fans permalink
photo

so really this quote means nothing? could go either way?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 AM on 08/13/2008
- Sylmason I'm a Fan of Sylmason 12 fans permalink
photo

The Clinton's will not STOP until they've destroyed the little bit of what's left of their legacy. They really are pathetic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 AM on 08/13/2008
- whizkid I'm a Fan of whizkid 28 fans permalink

Last I looked Obama doesn't even have a legacy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 AM on 08/13/2008
Page: « First ‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next › Last » (36 pages total)
Comments are closed for this entry

 You must be logged in to comment. Log in  or connect with 

Connect