Clintons Still Want To Kill Caucuses: The Latest Round

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First Posted: 08-12-08 11:08 AM   |   Updated: 09-12-08 05:12 AM

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Billhill

The Clintons hate the caucus system, and they want to see it die.

First they finished third in Iowa. Then they were out-organized by Barack Obama's campaign in the caucuses after Super Tuesday. Finally, they lost the showdown at the rules committee over how to reinstate delegates from the banned Michigan and Florida primaries.

According to one well-placed source, President Clinton himself is still raw over reports of caucus tampering in Iowa that he believes could have tilted the race in Barack Obama's favor, and has mentioned that possibility several times in conversation. A separate source who is also close to Clinton says the idea that people were "bused in" from Illinois to caucus is still a concern, as well. (The Iowa Democratic Party is not required by law to release its caucus rolls, and has not done so.)

In part, this fits with the pattern of retrospective analysis and persistent "what-if" thinking on the part of some Clinton officials, such as when communications director Howard Wolfson remarked on Fox News that John Edwards cost Sen. Clinton the nomination -- a claim that was later partially debunked.

So while a debate about the use of caucuses might seem moot to some, it remains terribly important to Clinton loyalists. And thus the battle over their use rages on -- sometimes in private, and sometimes in quasi-public forums. The most recent flash point was last weekend's DNC platform committee meeting in Pittsburgh. Included among over 100 proposed amendments to the party's platform was Amendment 93, which would have banned caucuses from future nominating contests.

Not surprisingly, it was a non-starter from the DNC's perspective. According to multiple sources, representatives for DNC Chairman Howard Dean ruled the proposed amendment out of order, since it spoke to a change in party rules, and referred it to the rules committee for a future discussion. Unlike other failed amendments, however, Amendment 93 was not even granted a debate at the platform meeting, a development which set some Clinton supporters on edge.

And after the fact, confusion over which draft of the amendment had even been rejected led to suspicion that it had been improperly referred to the rules committee in the first place.

Bob Remer, a Clinton delegate from Illinois who proposed the language of Amendment 93, told the Huffington Post he could only get a sentence or two out of his mouth before being interrupted at the meeting. Remer believes his preamble -- "The Democratic Party will practice its commitment to voting rights within our own nomination processes" -- would not have represented "a matter of mechanics or a change in rules."

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"I just thought i was premature to rule it out of order," he said. Referring to the surrogates at the platform meeting who represented Obama and the DNC, Remer said: "They could have made their case and had it voted down. They could have entertained a motion to table. But at least you'd have a debate. I was caught in mid-sentence."

Still, after that preamble, Remer's amendment pivoted into some pretty rule-impacting language. In part, it read: "Caucuses inherently disenfranchise the elderly, disabled, shift workers, single parents, and others whose circumstance prohibits participation in caucuses. The 2008 primaries illustrated that a caucus vote is worth more than a primary vote because each delegate elected by caucus represents fewer votes than each delegate elected by (a) primary."

The language also went on to assert that "party officials" and "aggressive participants" often assert coercion over voters that is immune from federal oversight. Thus, Remer wrote, the party should "forbid caucuses" in the future and require all states to hold primaries -- an expensive proposition that the DNC points out many states cannot afford.

Remer said he could understand why that language would be referred to the rules committee, though he believes the preamble could have been adopted on the basis of "principals and policy."

DNC platform member and prominent Clinton fundraiser Lynn Forester was even more explicit. In a statement to the Huffington Post, she said: "You must ask yourself, why would the Democratic Party reject the language of Amendment 93, saying the 'Democratic Party will practice its commitment to voting rights within its own nomination processes'? The fact that they used a technicality to deny this language as a statement of the Democratic Party's beliefs is a stain on this process."

While the DNC would not comment on the dispute except to describe it as an internal party matter, a source with knowledge of the committee's thinking said the platform meeting was not the appropriate time or place for the discussion. Noting that the document is meant to bring the party together and speak to broader goals, the source said the prospect of hashing out internecine party disputes was anathema to the DNC.

As for whether caucus rules could be properly addressed in the "voting rights" section of the platform, the source distinguished the party's rules for a private nominating contest from its support for the Federal Civil Voting Rights Act and the 14th amendment. (Indeed, a suit alleging that caucuses and primaries were "voting rights" issues was tossed by a federal judge earlier this year.)

The source also admitted that the DNC knows it has to address the problems of the caucus system and its proportional influence over the entire nominating process, but that it will take time, perhaps years, to properly thrash out the details.

For his part, Remer says that was his only goal. "They sort of said, we know the problem but don't bug me here," he recalled, laughing. But he insists he wasn't interested in calling Barack Obama's caucus wins into question after the fact. "This wasn't for the purpose of changing the course of history. Barack Obama is our nominee and I'm happy with that. I want to change the course of the future."

Forester, however, sees a broader alliance between Chairman Dean and Barack Obama that she feels is bad for the party. "Howard Dean's representative struck down Amendment 93," she said after the platform meeting, which she attended as an appointed Clinton representative. "Governor Dean is afraid of this language and that's an outrage. And by extension he's carrying Obama's water like he has through this whole nominating process. He is compromising the basic principle of one person, one vote, in order to give the nomination to Barack Obama and that means the Democratic party has a big problem."

Remer didn't come away totally disappointed from Saturday's platform meeting, however. Another one of his amendments passed, paving the way for a stronger position on guaranteed health care for all Americans. Another source from the Clinton side expressed gratitude that other Hillary-like language made it into the platform. "The Obama and Clinton people were definitely making an effort to reach out," the source said.

Perhaps the most prominent linguistic olive branch in the platform comes in a passage that reads: "Our party is proud that we have put 18 million cracks in the highest glass ceiling," echoing rhetoric that Sen. Clinton herself used when suspending her campaign.

Still, despite such sounds of harmony, the issue of caucuses is destined to come up again. Remer said he plans to address the rules committee on the matter -- an opportunity he could have as early as next week. Describing an epiphany that occurred while he was carrying a blind and disabled elderly woman up the stairs at an Iowa caucus site in January, he said he determined then and there that "this thing has got to go."

"It doesn't really matter who my candidate was," he said. "But I cut my teeth fighting elections fraud, for the sanctity of secret ballot. When we went to Iowa, I said, 'this is what we've been fighting against all these years in terms of election reform, my God!' Even when we thought our candidate was going to win, I said, 'It doesn't matter. It's very undemocratic.'"

The Clintons hate the caucus system, and they want to see it die. First they finished third in Iowa. Then they were out-organized by Barack Obama's campaign in the caucuses after Super Tuesday. Final...
The Clintons hate the caucus system, and they want to see it die. First they finished third in Iowa. Then they were out-organized by Barack Obama's campaign in the caucuses after Super Tuesday. Final...
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- whizkid I'm a Fan of whizkid 28 fans permalink

Caucuses are completely unscientific.
Like people requesting songs on the radio.
You could play it.
But most of your audience might switch to a different station.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 AM on 08/13/2008
- repearwo I'm a Fan of repearwo 35 fans permalink
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Unscientific?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

How so?

Any registered voter can caucus. In my state you could register right there at the caucus.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:18 AM on 08/13/2008
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can you elaborate on the "unscientific" remark? I didn't realize science was apart of the nominating process.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:19 AM on 08/13/2008
- whizkid I'm a Fan of whizkid 28 fans permalink

Sean
Its not like you never heard of political science, math, demographics, etc.
If so, hang on to your hat.
Its gonna be a bumpy ride.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:25 AM on 08/13/2008
- TrueIndy08 I'm a Fan of TrueIndy08 31 fans permalink

please ask Bill why he wasn't whining, b i t c h ing, and complaining when he won with this very caucus system....­?????

My guess, bc it benefited him.... and when it didn;t work for the witch in the pantsuit, now it must be done away with....

these people and their followers, people like you, are pathetic and an utter waste of everyones time!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:37 AM on 08/13/2008

If Biil and Hiil can't organize their supporters to show up for a caucus, what makes them think they can motivate the same people to do what is necessary to change the rules?

Doing away with the caucuses will require the voters of the states holding caucuses to work from within the state parties to change the way the process is run.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:54 AM on 08/13/2008
- sharonh I'm a Fan of sharonh 205 fans permalink
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I believe their intent was to ignore the caucuses and was not an organizational failure--at least at that level.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 AM on 08/13/2008

Wrong.

The Clin ton campaign said they were not aware of the bifurcated process in Texas.

The Texas State Democratic Chairman had to point out that they were given the rules when they filed.

The SAME rules that had been in place in 1992 when Biil used them to his advantage.

The SAME rules that were adopted in 1972 when Biil was running the Texas State Organizational Office for Mc Govern.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 AM on 08/13/2008

VolvoBirkenstock: You said, "If Biil and Hiil can't organize their supporters to show up for a caucus, what makes them think they can motivate the same people to do what is necessary to change the rules?"
I was a County delegate for Hillary Clinton and I was motivated to show up at a Caucus. I witnessed known Republicans and college kids that were bussed in caucusing for Obama and African-Americans became delegates because of the Affirmative Action rules of the Democratic Party even though the entire Caucus was for Hillary Clinton. The Black delegates just happened to be Obama supporters.
Your mistaken idea that the only Clinton supporters left are menopausal old women will lead to Obama's downfall. She has on record many pledged delegates that have sworn support for her.
Obama and his handlers don't want a roll-call vote because they know that any support for Hillary Clinton will be seen as evidence that the superdelegates forced him down our throats and we won't stand for it.
Be nice or suffer the consequences of a McCain administration.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:21 AM on 08/13/2008
- genseric13 I'm a Fan of genseric13 6 fans permalink

Sheer brute ambition won over democracy. What state was that in?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 AM on 08/13/2008
- TrueIndy08 I'm a Fan of TrueIndy08 31 fans permalink

well... sorry you still have the face of sour lemons... oh well, the train has moved beyond you!!!

There are grown ups in this election who realize what is at stake.... so just because their QUEEN lost doesn't mean they are willing to become the next foreclosure victim while the oil companies become richer....

So you, and those stupid PUMA LOSERS can move aside, because we are moving forward... sit back and whine like little babies, it won't change a thing!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:49 AM on 08/13/2008
- Aleka4 I'm a Fan of Aleka4 47 fans permalink

How do you know these people were "known republicans" and "college kids bussed in"? Did you ask for ID for all of them, question all of them? How exactly do you know what a "known republican" looks like? Do you attend their meetings to be able to recognize them?

I think they are "known" to you because you ARE one. which makes you a limbuagh chaos person who actually caucussed for CIinton. LOL.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:07 AM on 08/13/2008
- indeevoter I'm a Fan of indeevoter 7 fans permalink

"I was a County delegate for Hillary Clinton and I was motivated to show up at a Caucus. I witnessed known Republicans and college kids that were bussed in caucusing for Obama and African-Americans became delegates because of the Affirmative Action rules of the Democratic Party even though the entire Caucus was for Hillary Clinton."

Well, here's one Obama supporter who is opposed to ANY kind of voting fraud...an­d my guess is I'm certainly not the only one. If this happened as you say, and "known Republican and college kids were bussed in to vote for Obama", then I'm certain you and others must have reported it. So what steps were taken?

And where, exactly, did this take place? Please include Place, Date and Time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 AM on 08/13/2008
- saltysea I'm a Fan of saltysea 4 fans permalink

If he's that committed to transparent voting, maybe his first priority should be getting rid of the blankety-blank machines.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

The Clintons were never very concerned about democracy before. They've been silent through all the Republican election stealing. They seemed content with the DNC party rules until extremely recently.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:55 AM on 08/13/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 143 fans permalink
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Not a peep out of them for good ol' patient & loyal Gore - Self-serving a-holes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 AM on 08/13/2008

Clintons not concerned with Democracy? On what basis do you make that statement? It is a fact acknowledged by everyone except ignorant idealogues, that caucuses are the most undemocratic of voting systems. They represent a very small number of voters in a state. The process is not a secret ballot and friends and neighbors might be intimidated into voting one way or another. It is a public ballot. It also depends on people spending many hours or half a day listening to debates. People who are old or ill or who work or have children, etc. cannot take this much time and may not be physically able to endure such an event. They should be eliminated by either proportional delegates won to each candidate or have it winner take all.

This change is for the future and does not affect this nomination so stop the Obama vs. Clinton thing here. Many people are against Caucuses.

Give one reason for a caucus and how it advances democracy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:18 AM on 08/13/2008
- chrish I'm a Fan of chrish 14 fans permalink
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I hope, before 2012 rolls around, they address the caucus issue and do away with them. In my state there was a one-hour window to get in line to vote - one hour. People who had to work, get baby-sitters, or who didn't venture out in the dark (and the weather was horrible) were denied a voice. I know plenty of parents and elders who did not vote in the caucus because of the crappy situation, and of course it made a difference.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:31 AM on 08/13/2008
- Aleka4 I'm a Fan of Aleka4 47 fans permalink

Well, the flaw I see here is that you assume all these people "denied" a voice would have voted for CIinton. There is just nothing to support that and I wonder....­if these "elders" and "parents" were able to make it out to caucus for every OTHER election, why suddenly could they not for this one?

What nonsense. Are you always so gullible as to buy garbage that every politician feeds you, like this "voices denied" line that only seems to be a problem THIS cycle - but wasn't a problem EVER before?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:55 AM on 08/13/2008

Idiots. It doesn't matter who voted for who -- it's the principal of the thing. People were not able to vote. Caucuses do not allow for a democratic vote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:18 AM on 08/13/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 143 fans permalink
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"People who had to work, get baby-sitters, or who didn't venture out in the dark (and the weather was horrible) were denied a voice"

Have you not asked your self :
Self, why is it that I am so deluded that I (self) assume that people (above) were all H's people & none were O's people ?
Self, why am I so deluded that I won't believe that O's people also work, get baby-sitters, venture out in the dark (oh, horrible weather), don't have a voice ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 AM on 08/13/2008

liseworks: Because Obama's people were paid college kids with no responsibilities other than getting Obama nominated. People with small kids could not stay in line for the required time to sign in as Hillary supporters and left without being counted.
Caucuses are crap and have only been important in this election. Normally the candidate has been decided prior to the time that Caucuses count and only the party loyal were interested in them. The fact that the Obama campaign enlisted a military style cadre to hijack the Red Caucus states does NOT make him the best candidate for President. The delegates at the Democratic National Convention will realize that and the superdelegates will do their job in the end.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

Lots of people don't vote in primaries for exactly the same reason. It's always hard for me and my husband to get to the polls before 7, with both of us working and kids to think of, and when we show up there between 5:30 and 7 it is the most crowded time.

Bottom line: If you want to take part, you will put up with the inconvenience. No matter when they hold primaries and caucuses, some people will be unable or unwilling to participate.

Until they hold elections 24/7 for 3 days straight, it will be this way.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:20 AM on 08/13/2008
- TrueIndy08 I'm a Fan of TrueIndy08 31 fans permalink

vote absentee

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:49 AM on 08/13/2008

From The Progressive Review:

THE CLINTON MYTH

Filling some of the vast voids at the 2004 Democratic convention were repeated media references to B ill Clin ton as the true savior of the Democratic Party. This myth has been one of the most destructive forces within the party. Here are some of the facts:

B ill Clin ton got 43.9% of the vote in 1992, while Mich ael Du kakis - the victim of another myth as the purportedly worst possible sort of candidate - got 45%. True Clin ton was up against Ross Pe rot who got 19% as well as B ush, but Clin ton might well have lost were it not for Pe rot, in which case he would have joined Michael Du kakis in the hall of shame. Clin ton won a majority in only two state-like entities: Arkansas and DC. In only 12 other states was he able to get ever 45%. Du kakis, meanwhile, got over 50% in 11 states and got over 45% in 12 others.

http://prorev.com/clintonmyth.htm

Continued.­..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 AM on 08/13/2008

Part 2:

Here's what happened to the Democrats under Clin ton, based on our latest figures:

GOP seats gained in House after Clin ton became president: 48

GOP seats gained in Senate after Clin ton became president: 8

GOP governorships gained after Clin ton became president: 11

GOP state legislative seats gained since Clin ton became president: 1,254 as of 1998

State legislatures taken over by GOP after Clin ton became president: 9

Democrat officeholders who have become Republicans since Clin ton became president: 439 as of 1998 Republican officeholders who became Democrats: 3

According to the 2000 exits polls:

60% of voters disapproved of Clin ton as a person

59% -including some who approved of him - disliked him

68% said he would go down in the history books for his scandals rather than for his leadership

44% thought the Clin ton scandals were important or somewhat important. (In contrast, only 28% thought Bush's drunk driving arrest was important or somewhat important)

18% said a reason for their vote was to oppose Clin ton

15% of those who had voted for Clin ton in 1996 voted for B ush in 2000.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:26 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 237 fans permalink
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Thanks for the stats, please send a copy to Bill.

Abby

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:30 AM on 08/13/2008
- saltysea I'm a Fan of saltysea 4 fans permalink

and that's not even counting the "right" judges.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:40 AM on 08/13/2008
- genseric13 I'm a Fan of genseric13 6 fans permalink

You forgot that he had the best economy in the 20th century. I know that's not as important as politics.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:43 AM on 08/13/2008
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If the Clintons could exploit the caucus system, they would love it. But more to the point what they wantis to kill are Obama’s chances in November. From Bill’s damning with faint praise to Hillary not so veiled threat to force a brokered convention, they have done everything to discredit Sen. Obama’s nomination.
I have been trying not to say this outloud but as the convention grows closer it appears that the Clintons are willing to let Obama lose and subject the nation to 4 more years of this self destructive Republican oligarchy, to totally own the supreme court (kiss Roe v. Wade good bye) so she can run again in 2012 against a 76 year old McCain without any competition from the Democrats.
Ironically, her pettiness really strikes at the heart of her constituents. Even with a majority in both houses abortion rights will be gone for this and the next generation of American women.
A very high price in deed to satiate a personal ambition.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 AM on 08/13/2008
- Charmed I'm a Fan of Charmed 27 fans permalink

The Clintons have millions of dollars and can easily survive another 4 years of Republicans. Her supporters don't care about what's best for America, they just want Hillary to be President. She has never once tried to calm down the craziness that comes from any of her supporters but when the DNC was going to meet, Obama took a leadership role and encouraged his supporters to stay away from the procedures because he didn't want a scene.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:54 AM on 08/13/2008

Bill and Hillary. Is it possible they (and a few rabid horrifying "feminists") are the only ones who don't get it? That Bill and Hillary are toxic.

Mc Cain's ONLY chance at "winning" in 08 (aside from the usual VOTING MACHINE and fraud that worked for Shrub in 00 and 04) was if the most polarizing woman in America and the Worst Husband in Public Life had been offered as the new FIRST COUPLE. We have seen what having One President in Public (the Shrub) and the REAL PRESIDENT in the shadows (CHENEY) has done to a once great nation. Bill Clinton and Hillary would have finished the job...
Not that there's much hope left (sorry for ending on a downer).
No Way this country can pull it out----The Bush Presidency proved that democracy can be destroyed in a mere seven years.

sadly. Oh, so sadly.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 AM on 08/13/2008
- AgathaX I'm a Fan of AgathaX 13 fans permalink
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The Clintons for some reason think that if they change the rules, their opponents will not notice or adapt--just like the Clintons this year. First, there is no reason to change the rules. There are good reasons for holding caucuses. Secondly, if caucuses are done away with--which they won't be-- winning candidates will adjust their campaigns and win anyway.

The DNC will have little motivation to fundamentally change a system that gave it a winning candidate. If anything, it needs to guard against the influence of Limbaugh-ites in the future. That means no independents or Republicans voting in any election where there is no meaningful contest on the Republican side.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:19 AM on 08/13/2008
- saltysea I'm a Fan of saltysea 4 fans permalink

agreed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:39 AM on 08/13/2008
- YunekFlava I'm a Fan of YunekFlava 69 fans permalink
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This is what Political Fear looks like.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 AM on 08/13/2008

Name one good reason for holding caucuses. It is not a Clinton issue. Many people want the caucus votes to end. It has nothing to do with this election but for the future. Rules are always changed after a primary season. Obama's BFF Ted Kennedy brought his 1980 fight for the nomination against a sitting President of his own party to the 1980 convention and demanded rule changes to allow delegates won in a primary to change their votes at the convention. He lost the rule change on the floor but got the change in committee hearings that fall for the future. That is why under present rules any delegate can change their vote at the convention no matter who they were elected to vote for.

Stop making this a Clinton thing. Get over it and stop bashing them. You RNC stooges.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:23 AM on 08/13/2008
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Written in September 1999, by Camille Paglia @ Salon.com -- how prescient is this:

"I view Hillary at this point as a parasite on the Democratic Party, draining its energies and locking it to the past at a time when it should be remaking itself for the millennium­."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:18 AM on 08/13/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 143 fans permalink
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You gotta be kidding - MY my how time flies & how the flies keep buzzing around this ol' pile of crap we've had to put up with for so long -
WHY - OH - WHY - WON'T - THEY - JUST - GO - AWAY ??

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 AM on 08/13/2008

You are all jerks and trash talking the Clintons will insure an Obama loss in November. You will have yourselves to blame.

Camile Paglia -- that dried out hag narcissist! How outdated her rants are. She likes to hear herself rant and usually contradicts herself a few times in one sentence. She should be McCain's running mate. She is a contrarian with no true beliefs. She is so 1980's.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 AM on 08/13/2008
- sharonh I'm a Fan of sharonh 205 fans permalink
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If Hillary is the parasite, what do you call the writer who feeds on her?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 AM on 08/13/2008
- doctorwang I'm a Fan of doctorwang 189 fans permalink
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Devoid of any taste?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:53 AM on 08/13/2008
- suzyhein I'm a Fan of suzyhein 63 fans permalink
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you mean the writer, upon whose post you are commenting?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 AM on 08/13/2008
- olivia I'm a Fan of olivia 96 fans permalink

A scavenger perhaps?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:36 AM on 08/13/2008
- sharonh I'm a Fan of sharonh 205 fans permalink
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Until the early seventies the nominee was chosen at the convention, not by primaries. It was not unusual to have 5 or 6 candidates submit their name for nomination. Now you would have potential candidates throw away their rights in the name of party unity. A party cannot be united if it has separate rules for a special candidate. Ms. Clinton has every right to have her name placed for nomination, especially seeing how close the primaries were, without being accused of trying to destroy the party. This is your party, and this is how it works. Like it or leave it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 AM on 08/13/2008
- doctorwang I'm a Fan of doctorwang 189 fans permalink
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The system has changed since the seventies. If the C!intons didn't like the current process they had ample time to do something tabout it prior to the '08 primaries. They didn't. It's over. The nominee has been chosen.
If you'd like to reform the primary system for the 2012, I suggest you start working on it now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:26 AM on 08/13/2008
- sharonh I'm a Fan of sharonh 205 fans permalink
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The nominee is still chosen at the convention and if you want to change that, I suggest you start working on it now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 AM on 08/13/2008
- YunekFlava I'm a Fan of YunekFlava 69 fans permalink
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Is this what fear smell like?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 AM on 08/13/2008
- suzyhein I'm a Fan of suzyhein 63 fans permalink
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i don't care if she places her name, but i've heard she won't because of political embarrassment due to loss of delegates???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 AM on 08/13/2008

If they don't let her name be put up for nomination it will be the final insult that will seal the Democrats doom in november.

Remember 18 million real people voted for Clinton and many more support her still. There is no harm in putting her name up for nomination. When Obama is about to go over the top, she will release her delegates and ask for his nomination by acclamation. Don't you know anything about history, political theater and drama?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:28 AM on 08/13/2008
- repearwo I'm a Fan of repearwo 35 fans permalink
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The reason for the change was the Chicago Convention in 1968. There were still primaries and caucuses prior to 1972. The debacle at Chaicago made party leaaders want to have a nominee before the Convention and wanted to take the "king Making" out of the hands of politcal bosses in "smoke-filled rooms". Of course since 1968 there have been only two Democrat Presidents and they were Party Outsiders.

Any illusions that the out come at the convention in Denver will be other than Obama are unfounded.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 AM on 08/13/2008

If you can't manage the enormous egos overshadowing your own campaign, what good are you?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 AM on 08/13/2008

Bubba...it­'s time to move on, buddy. 40 years of sucking off the hind teat of government is enough. Go out and speak, make money, get laid...wha­tever. But move on.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 AM on 08/13/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 143 fans permalink
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L - O - L ......!!!!­!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:14 AM on 08/13/2008

What is it about the Obamabots that they use over 1500 comments to explain why the Clintons are not relevant any more? Doesn't this nonsense prove that the Clintons are still a strong force in the Democratic Party and Obama is sucking up to them because he knows they are.
When the Obamabots joined the Republicans and the DNC to force the Clintons out of the Party and didn't succeed because of the Centrist Democrats, Obama realized that the coup of the Left Wing Liberals had not worked and he had to adopt Centrist Policies to win the General Election. To use the favorite slang of the elite Obama supporters, LMAO.
You are locked in to voting for "The One" but I am not unless he continues to the middle and names Hillary Clinton as V.P.
You dug the hole for all of us, so please quit digging!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:12 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 237 fans permalink
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Oh, ke-evvvvvvvv, he's heeeerrrrr­rrrrre....­..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 AM on 08/13/2008
- doctorwang I'm a Fan of doctorwang 189 fans permalink
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A good portion of those 1500 comments are from PUM@ trolls- repeating the same inane talking points over and over again.

O supporters joined with the Repubs?? WTF? Are you and Goatlife brothers?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 AM on 08/13/2008

What the Clinton's need to realize, it is not about them, they showed their true colors throughout the primary season. I do not have any respect for her, because she only suspended her campaign. She did not quit and she lost. Then tried to take away a historical moment from Barack. Clinton's need to move on and she as a senator needs to take care of New York, that is if she can handle that kind of responsibility.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 237 fans permalink
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And just as Bill was about to speak, about to trash O in a really eloquent way, there was a crack of thunder and a flash of lightening, and so began the worst electrical storm in living memory!

And the then the lights went out.

Yaaaaaaay!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 AM on 08/13/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 237 fans permalink
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That one's for you, lise, I put it in the wrong spot.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 AM on 08/13/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 143 fans permalink
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Thank you - I'll have sweet dreams tonite for sure - : )

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 AM on 08/13/2008
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