New York Times Revises McCain's Military Record With Correction

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First Posted: 08-12-08 10:38 AM   |   Updated: 09-12-08 05:12 AM

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Mccain As Pilot

The New York Times carried a correction today for an August 9 story that essentially revises a key component of John McCain's military career -- that he was a "fighter pilot":

An article on Sunday about Senator John McCain's campaign management style described his role as a Navy pilot in Vietnam incorrectly. He flew bombing missions as an attack aircraft pilot, but he was not a "fighter pilot." (The error has appeared in numerous other Times articles the past dozen years, most recently on April 9 and on Dec. 15, 2007.)

It would seem like an important matter, given the fact that the paper of record was going so far to cop to a decade-long litany of error. But it appears that the Times is really splitting a hair here. Providing the vital "More Than You Ever Wanted To Know About Fighter Planes" research today is Gawker's Ryan Tate, who reckons the Times needs to be told, "Negative Ghostrider, the pattern is full of tortured reasoning!"

When McCain was famously shot down over Vietnam, he was flying his usual plane, a small jet aircraft known as the A-4 Skyhawk, which the Times now refers to as an "attack aircraft." That's a safe and widely-agreed upon label for the plane pilots dubbed "Scooter" (heh), but the newspaper needn't have apologized for calling it a "fighter." Many in the aviation community regard it as precisely that, starting with the military's most famous training program, Top Gun.


Top Gun, the nickname for the Navy fighter pilot school made famous in the Tom Cruise movie of the same name, originally used the A-4 to simulate Russian MiGs. The key attribute for a "fighter," according to widely recognized definitions, is high speed and maneuverability and weapons designed to shoot down enemy aircraft.

...

All versions of the aircraft can carry Sidewinder air-to-air missiles for self defense, according to Bill Gunston and Mike Spick's excellent "Modern Air Combat." And they often did, for example in the service of the Israeli Air Force, where an A-4 shot down a Syrian MiG-17 during the Yom Kippur war. Boom, fighter!

Tate goes on to point out that while the A-4's purpose is often interpreted as an "attack bomber," at least one authoritative source, The World's Great Attack Aircraft, "refers to the plane as a 'versatile little fighter-bomber.'"

Naturally, I have to wonder why the Times is committing themselves to a wordy future of referring to McCain as "an attack aircraft pilot who flew bombing missions" when their audience is not primarily made up of military experts and "fighter pilot" is a simple and accurate enough way of describing McCain's military service. In keeping with the need to correct decade-long assumptions (and the Top Gun theme in general!), the Times might be better advised to reconsider whether it's accurate to call McCain a "maverick."

The New York Times carried a correction today for an August 9 story that essentially revises a key component of John McCain's military career -- that he was a "fighter pilot": An article on Sunday ab...
The New York Times carried a correction today for an August 9 story that essentially revises a key component of John McCain's military career -- that he was a "fighter pilot": An article on Sunday ab...
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Reiterate something we really ought to know like where he placed in his class of 899. Let's go on and on and on about that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 PM on 08/12/2008

So what he wasn't a fighter pilot, I just want to know did he break while being held captive and did he remain in captivity because he was was ashamed to come back home after denouncing the US.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 PM on 08/12/2008
- dadw5boys I'm a Fan of dadw5boys 279 fans permalink
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The other men who made tapes for the Vietcong were relased from the military with less than hornorable discharges.

Mc Cain made 32 tapes (more than anyone else) but was allowed to remain in the military ??

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:47 PM on 08/12/2008

All the more why we can NOT elect this man!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 08/12/2008
- ejay579 I'm a Fan of ejay579 9 fans permalink
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There were those who did various things while in captivity for which they received less than honorable discharges. This was probably due more to an outdated system of accountability than to the valour of the individuals involved. This is what torture will do to a person.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:04 PM on 08/12/2008
- demigod I'm a Fan of demigod 35 fans permalink

In America we have civilian control over the military. This is because the military cannot make rational judgements where war and peace are concerned. They are there to fight. You don't put loggers in charge of the national forests - well, the Republicans would, but you shouldn't. That's the whole problem right there. You cannot have a vested interest where leadership is concerned, and the military has the most vested interests I can think of. They say someone who has seen war would never vote for one, but John McCain is proof that is not true. He confuses umbrage and national pride with the National Interest. Then he votes against veterans' benefits over and over. It doesn't make sense.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:20 PM on 08/12/2008
- Eoin45 I'm a Fan of Eoin45 44 fans permalink

Your comment is true sometimes but not always. Dwight Eisenhower was a pretty good president IMHOP. He said: "Men acquainted with the battlefield will not be found among the numbers that glibly talk of another war." He lived up to it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 PM on 08/12/2008
- Roll451 I'm a Fan of Roll451 4 fans permalink

Eisenhower also warned the country about the dangers created by having a military-industrial complex.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:01 PM on 08/12/2008
- mimigrammy I'm a Fan of mimigrammy 38 fans permalink

VERY WELL SAID!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 08/12/2008
- Manchurian I'm a Fan of Manchurian 6 fans permalink

DG, I don't know how many military people you know, but the ones I know (in both high and low places) are not mindless warmongers. In fact, most (not all, but most) show greater reluctance to use violence for conflict resolution than do our politicians. Our current civilian "leadership" (not our military) seem to be the ones who favor an unjustified, immoral, illegal war as the preferred option of eliminating regimes (and ethnicities) they (or their supporters) don't especially like.

Don't get me wrong - I support the very wise decision of our Founding Fathers to implement civilian control over the military. Problem is, we have very few politicians today who have the intellect and insight of our Founding Fathers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:41 PM on 08/12/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 263 fans permalink
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"I'm John Kerry, and I'm REPORTING FOR DUTY!"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:49 PM on 08/12/2008
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The main differance is: Fighter pilots are the most elite pilots, who didn't finish in the bottom 1% at Anapolis and who didn't crash any aircraft during training.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 08/12/2008
- Manchurian I'm a Fan of Manchurian 6 fans permalink

RIght idea, but wrong example. Some of the best pilots graduated near the bottom of their respective USNA and USAFA classes. A history of crashes, on the other hand, may indicate a serious problem.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:42 PM on 08/12/2008
- captnEarl I'm a Fan of captnEarl 6 fans permalink

You got proof or just flapping your jowls?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:16 PM on 08/12/2008
- WFV I'm a Fan of WFV 13 fans permalink
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Yeah, so, my father flew many bombing missions in WWII, and that doesn't make him qualified to be the president of the United States. He's a decorated veteran, and we are very proud of his service. He will be the first to tell you all of that doesn't mean he could lead the country today.

We need to look to the future, not live in the past. I am glad McSturgis is a veteran, but what else can you tell me?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 PM on 08/12/2008
- indypete I'm a Fan of indypete 148 fans permalink
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Perhaps "fighter pilot" with its connotations of "knight of the sky" is a more palatable term than "bomber pilot" with its connotations of barbecuing women and kids with napalm.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:08 PM on 08/12/2008
- Whinger I'm a Fan of Whinger 46 fans permalink
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In America the word hero is like the word justice!

Both are exploited and abused by dishonorable servants of the nation!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:00 PM on 08/12/2008
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No one who made tapes for the enemy calling America a criminal nation deserves to be called a hero. McCain is a TRAITOR!!!!! Were it not for his father & grandfather being Admirals in the Navy,McCain would never have gotten away with this crap!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:11 PM on 08/12/2008
- indypete I'm a Fan of indypete 148 fans permalink
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I can fault McC for a lot of things and shudder at the thought of him being prez (he'd probably be even worse than boosh) but nobody has any right to criticise him for making those tapes. I would have made them, you would have made them,.... hell, I'd have given them the president's hat size and confessed to the Lincoln assasination to get them to stop torturing me. Torture cracks everybody, no exceptions (which is why it's useless for getting information, by the way, you'l say anything they want, not necessesarily what they need).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 PM on 08/12/2008
- BigLib I'm a Fan of BigLib 18 fans permalink

"criminal nation"? You must be talking about Michelle Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 PM on 08/12/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 263 fans permalink
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That is an excellent talking point for 0bama. His campaign should make a series of ads along that line.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:31 PM on 08/12/2008
- Dari I'm a Fan of Dari 15 fans permalink
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Fascinating that the Times "CORRECTED" their terminology for something that happened BEFORE some posters on this blog were born......­...

IF the GOP analysts/pundits can call Senator McCain leaving his 1st wife after she was crippled for his heiress wife "ANCIENT" history, I don't see WHY we cannot call this 'correction' the same thing.....­ANCIENT History...­.. OR ...... That was THEN, this is NOW......

NOW - just discussing Military Service:

Senator McCain for ALL his POW years/military service when he had been tortured himself VOTED to accept TORTURE .

Senator McCain voted AGAINST the new GI Bill to get PRESENT Veterns better opportunities and benefits.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:59 PM on 08/12/2008

6.5 years before I was born. I'm a vet and I wish my grandfather and father were admirals that paved the way for me to get preferential treatment while I was I served in the Navy. I'm glad that mostly all of my fellow vets served our country as a way to protect and give back instead of political positioning. Is McBush the only living POW from any of our wars?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:22 PM on 08/12/2008

Thanks for sticking to relevant points--things the electorate should know about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:11 PM on 08/12/2008

Just a clarifying point here. He fought against it for a year and a half, but he didn't vote against it, he actually didn't show up to vote at all. He was too busy at a fundraiser in CA at the time. But he sure took credit for it, and Bush gleefully gave him credit for it. He does however have a long record of voting against a host of other bills that would have helped our brave men and women who serve.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:03 PM on 08/13/2008
- emmaspeaks I'm a Fan of emmaspeaks 3 fans permalink

Yes, and why does this matter? Being a pilot, no matter what type, commercial or in the armed forces, doesn't prove you can lead or make decisions. What has he done that shows he is qualified to lead our nation and make the big decisions? Not his voting record.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 08/12/2008

And being a state rep from IL and a community activist does.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 PM on 08/12/2008
- Eoin45 I'm a Fan of Eoin45 44 fans permalink

How about being a cheerleader, drunk till age 40, an AWOL war avoider, driver of several businesses into the ground and then Governor of a state whose legislature only meets every other year?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:42 PM on 08/12/2008
- NYC07 I'm a Fan of NYC07 61 fans permalink

Yes it does, the major responsibility of a gov't is to take care of the needs of its people, great Presidents like FDR who hardly came from the common people understood this responsibility. A Community Activist lives with the common people and sees first hand the needs and problems that economic hardships bring and is best and coming up with ways to build the economy for the good of these self same people. Community Activists don't look at people as cold statics to be made a profit off of, but as living human beings. The first job of a gov't is to take care of the people at home, not to play world cop, or caped avenger.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 PM on 08/12/2008

Because fighter pilots shoot other pilots who are enemy combatants. Bomber pilots are not necessarily so discerning with those those they kill.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:22 PM on 08/12/2008
- kasinca I'm a Fan of kasinca 162 fans permalink
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McSame flew his jet forty years ago...sinc­e then he has voted along party lines 95% of the time. McSame is not qualified to be president if he plans to continue the failed policies he has supported for the past twenty six years.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 08/12/2008

For the last twenty six years he supported the wishes of the constituency in Arizona that elected him. And that included 8 years under Clinton.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:19 PM on 08/13/2008
- wmholt I'm a Fan of wmholt 29 fans permalink
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I suppose the media has done their due diligence now, and can go back to passing on everything the McCain camp says, without any fact-checking.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 PM on 08/12/2008
- Ohg I'm a Fan of Ohg 5 fans permalink

McCain is using religious bigotry to justify his case for http://thefiresidepost.com/2008/08/12/mccain-drives-religious-wedge-to-promote-war/promote-war/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 PM on 08/12/2008
- Whinger I'm a Fan of Whinger 46 fans permalink
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Good link, but our glorious leaders are far removed from Christian ideology!

The god they worship is the almighty dollar and lots of them!

There is a heck of lot of profit to be made from wars, this is their motivation, not religious bigotry, for these are Godless men masquerading as Christians, warmongers in sheeps clothing!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 PM on 08/12/2008

I am in no way a fan of McCain and I personally don't consider him a hero for what he did during Viet Nam. That term is way over-used these days. But to criticize the flying skill of any pilot that can land an aircraft on a carrier is just plain silly and to call a guy willing to fly into SAM and AAA defenses a mere "bus driver" is even sillier.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 PM on 08/12/2008
- biglover I'm a Fan of biglover 42 fans permalink

He wasn't that good at landing those planes on the carrier since he crashed 5 of them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 PM on 08/12/2008

Tom, for a leftist, you sure seem to have a level head on your shoulders, you should set some of these liberals straight in here. Attack the guy for his policies but leave his military service alone. He had big cojonies to fly into that stuff and he's darn lucky he did not get killed when his jet was hit.

Liberals and leftist democrats look trite when they try to parse his service. It will get them nowhere.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:23 PM on 08/12/2008
- ejay579 I'm a Fan of ejay579 9 fans permalink
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We parse his service because he makes it an issue. It is the only thing he has done in his many, many , oh, so many years. Tell us more and will will parse it as well. Oh, I forgot, that is it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:23 PM on 08/12/2008
- MajorKong I'm a Fan of MajorKong 386 fans permalink
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But yet the Republicans went after the service records of John Kerry, Max Cleland, Paul Hackett, Wesley Clark and Tammy Duckworth with everything they had. Why is that we're the ones that look "trite"?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:43 PM on 08/12/2008
- Teckwreck I'm a Fan of Teckwreck 2 fans permalink

If my child was a wartime "bus driver" I would not consider this less then important or brave. However this would not qualify him to lead. This is not a difficult concept. We need to focus people's attention on this, and not denigrate anyone's war efforts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 08/12/2008
- emmaspeaks I'm a Fan of emmaspeaks 3 fans permalink

Bingo. Bravery and dedication do not make a president.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:09 PM on 08/12/2008
- Triangle1 I'm a Fan of Triangle1 4 fans permalink
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Who cares? This is hairsplitting. The last time I checked, Obama hadn't served in any war capacity at all. http://mespace.wordpress.com

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 08/12/2008
- edwarvir I'm a Fan of edwarvir 36 fans permalink

This piece is not about Senator Obama, you act like Exxon Johnny every time they
ask the nut a question instead of talking about his agenda he brings up
Senator Obama. So what's iup with that?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 08/12/2008
- indypete I'm a Fan of indypete 148 fans permalink
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See also Boosh, Che ney, Rum sfeld, Ric e, Rover, Rom ney, Reagun, Nixon etc, etc, etc...

Are you trying to slime him by saying he's like this lot?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 PM on 08/12/2008

They don't count. The Right are automatically war heroes. The Left are liberal pansies unless they serve in at least three different wars. Wes Clark, pansy because he survived.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:25 PM on 08/12/2008
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Depends on what you mean 'war capacity'. Nixon had some important command of logistical support in the pacific during WWII.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:48 PM on 08/12/2008
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