New York Times Revises McCain's Military Record With Correction

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First Posted: 08-12-08 10:38 AM   |   Updated: 09-12-08 05:12 AM

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Mccain As Pilot

The New York Times carried a correction today for an August 9 story that essentially revises a key component of John McCain's military career -- that he was a "fighter pilot":

An article on Sunday about Senator John McCain's campaign management style described his role as a Navy pilot in Vietnam incorrectly. He flew bombing missions as an attack aircraft pilot, but he was not a "fighter pilot." (The error has appeared in numerous other Times articles the past dozen years, most recently on April 9 and on Dec. 15, 2007.)

It would seem like an important matter, given the fact that the paper of record was going so far to cop to a decade-long litany of error. But it appears that the Times is really splitting a hair here. Providing the vital "More Than You Ever Wanted To Know About Fighter Planes" research today is Gawker's Ryan Tate, who reckons the Times needs to be told, "Negative Ghostrider, the pattern is full of tortured reasoning!"

When McCain was famously shot down over Vietnam, he was flying his usual plane, a small jet aircraft known as the A-4 Skyhawk, which the Times now refers to as an "attack aircraft." That's a safe and widely-agreed upon label for the plane pilots dubbed "Scooter" (heh), but the newspaper needn't have apologized for calling it a "fighter." Many in the aviation community regard it as precisely that, starting with the military's most famous training program, Top Gun.


Top Gun, the nickname for the Navy fighter pilot school made famous in the Tom Cruise movie of the same name, originally used the A-4 to simulate Russian MiGs. The key attribute for a "fighter," according to widely recognized definitions, is high speed and maneuverability and weapons designed to shoot down enemy aircraft.

...

All versions of the aircraft can carry Sidewinder air-to-air missiles for self defense, according to Bill Gunston and Mike Spick's excellent "Modern Air Combat." And they often did, for example in the service of the Israeli Air Force, where an A-4 shot down a Syrian MiG-17 during the Yom Kippur war. Boom, fighter!

Tate goes on to point out that while the A-4's purpose is often interpreted as an "attack bomber," at least one authoritative source, The World's Great Attack Aircraft, "refers to the plane as a 'versatile little fighter-bomber.'"

Naturally, I have to wonder why the Times is committing themselves to a wordy future of referring to McCain as "an attack aircraft pilot who flew bombing missions" when their audience is not primarily made up of military experts and "fighter pilot" is a simple and accurate enough way of describing McCain's military service. In keeping with the need to correct decade-long assumptions (and the Top Gun theme in general!), the Times might be better advised to reconsider whether it's accurate to call McCain a "maverick."

The New York Times carried a correction today for an August 9 story that essentially revises a key component of John McCain's military career -- that he was a "fighter pilot": An article on Sunday ab...
The New York Times carried a correction today for an August 9 story that essentially revises a key component of John McCain's military career -- that he was a "fighter pilot": An article on Sunday ab...
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Watch this, watch it now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdJUCU1UH2w

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 PM on 08/12/2008

More Tripe, I guess it's was better to have Saddam to have lived, the killer of over a million; the love of Hitle, He called shite, sunni, christian, and kurd iraqi all in equal delight with bullets and gas. I am not sorry at all that he is in the grave. Obama could not have visited Maleki in Bagdad but for the war, he would have had to visit him in Jordan in exile as most of his family had been killed. The film is just a lie with an agenda for the tyrants of the world.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 PM on 08/12/2008
- captnEarl I'm a Fan of captnEarl 5 fans permalink

Truth sometimes hurts don't it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:37 PM on 08/12/2008

Whiteboyblues--WOW, where did you find that youtube video? Will it reach a lot of people? Everyone needs to see this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 PM on 08/12/2008
- Whinger I'm a Fan of Whinger 46 fans permalink
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Great link, that ties the ribbon on John McCain, he's promoting yet more death and destruction!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 PM on 08/12/2008

NYTimes deserves kudos for this bit of correction. McCain was not a Fighter Pilot and there is a big distinction. Let us hope the rest of the Songbirds military as well as his medical records are revealed. I won't hold my breath. It's going to be a fight to get them. The American people are owed full disclosure of the past behaviour of any one seeking public office. John McCain's behaviour while in the Navy was less then steller and the only reason for him not being summarlly kicked out was because of his Father and Grandfather. There are questions as to his behaviour as a POW, I for one would like to know if he was indeed a colloberator. Daddy's not around to protect him any longer. I went through SERE in 1967 and as I remember it was name, rank and serial number, period. And then there is the tragic incindent involving the crashing his plane on to the flight deck of the U.S.S Forestal that caused the death of over one hundred saliors. MSM should demand these recorders forcefully or indeed sue for the right of the people to know.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 PM on 08/12/2008
- ComnCents I'm a Fan of ComnCents 3 fans permalink
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You can sum up all of McWarlord's life accomplishments in one word: Mediocre.

This is better than the guy he wants to replace.
But not by much.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:32 PM on 08/12/2008
- Ajegunle I'm a Fan of Ajegunle 25 fans permalink

FIGHTER PILOTS ARE THE ELITE OF THE AIR FORCE, THE SMARTEST AND THE VERY BEST. HE WAS MERELY A TRANSPORTATION WORKER----A GLORIFIED WARTIME BUS DRIVER---NOTHING MORE.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:32 PM on 08/12/2008

I don't like John McCain. I am totally in support of Obama. But knocking him over his military service is despicable. I hated it when the right denigrated Kerry's service, and just because the Republicans did it, doesn't make it something that we should do to McCain. The Repbulicans believe in torturing people too - do we want to adopt that standard? I don't care if he was the lunch lady in Viet Nam, got captured and spend all those years as a POW. He served when many in this country did not. He served when it meant that many of us shunned the soldiers. We never thanked them properly at the time; can we at least stop slamming them now. McCain is old, has no new ideas, would probably take us into a least one new war (Iran) and looks like he would love to mix it up with Russia again. But his military service deserves to be respected.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:36 PM on 08/12/2008

Thank you...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 08/12/2008

Respected? yes. Above criticism? no.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:40 PM on 08/12/2008
- Eoin45 I'm a Fan of Eoin45 44 fans permalink

The Republicans didn't just denigrate Kerry's service. They LIED about it. Not everyone's militayr service is worthy of respect either. There are too many who enjoy killing - like the young snipers in Iraq who blast Metallica to hype themselves up. Take each person who served individually. Military service in and of itself is neither here nor there. Specifics matter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 PM on 08/12/2008
- schatsie I'm a Fan of schatsie 71 fans permalink

Considering he crashed 5 planes and made it out alive you have to consider him a miracle...

I remember my husband having to clean up the body parts from one air force crash...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:38 PM on 08/12/2008
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Didn't one accident cause the death of 132 people on board a carrier? I have not researched this, it is just something I was told.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 08/12/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 260 fans permalink
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McC was in the Navy, not the Air Force.

And bus drivers cannot land a jet aircraft on a carrier.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 PM on 08/12/2008
- indypete I'm a Fan of indypete 148 fans permalink
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As far as I can tell, he flew 'em but never bothered landing 'em.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:10 PM on 08/12/2008
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When I was six years old in 195? my dad (Army Air Corp) was sent to Tripoli ,North Africa...my Mother and I followed shortly after...we flew in what was called a Box Car..a plane with medal seats and box lunches..real little white boxes with a sandwich and apple. The plane had been used to haul medical supplies and jeeps to the fight during ww2. They were not bombers, though they could protect themselves. Calling those pilots fighters would have been a misnomer. McCain was not a jet fighter...what he went through was horrible, and I respect his experience. But I think that he allows the wrong impression to be out there and it is a lie. But most of his appeal is that romantic view of who he is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:40 PM on 08/12/2008
- Eoin45 I'm a Fan of Eoin45 44 fans permalink

He crashed five planes Ramirez.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:47 PM on 08/12/2008
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and a ''war hero". Kerry was; McCain's only heroic act was to decline being sent home early and staying in queue.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 PM on 08/12/2008
- k6007 I'm a Fan of k6007 230 fans permalink
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He was probably trying to wait until his father passed, so he wouldn't have to be berated for failing once again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:28 PM on 08/12/2008
- jazzman I'm a Fan of jazzman 228 fans permalink
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He had no choice but to stay in Vietnam no matter what the Vietnamese offered. It was military policy that he could not ask or accept being sent home early. If he had he would have been in big trouble. So you can't even ad that to his bravery. It's just part of his bloviating.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 PM on 08/12/2008
- sfsj I'm a Fan of sfsj permalink

Despite his service, he still gets low marks from vet groups for his voting record on vet benefits -- listen to this vet question him at one of his town hall meetings (and somehow this only makes it to Count Down! -- and the McCain camp says the press favors Obama -- what a joke! -- if Obama had this kind of record, it would be yet another pundit talking about an Obama "problem" -- yet McCain NEVER has a "problem." )

I think McCain has a HUGE problem with his voting record on vet issues and it should be the center of an ad by the Obama camp.

check out this vet's question...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnyEMLXvgV8

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 PM on 08/12/2008
- Ajegunle I'm a Fan of Ajegunle 25 fans permalink

HE WAS ONLY A PILOT----NOT A FIGHTER PILOT---THAT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

HE WAS A GLORIFIED WARTIME BUS DRIVER---PERIOD.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 08/12/2008

come on guys...he was a war hero...leave it be...there are real reasons not to like him...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 08/12/2008
- k6007 I'm a Fan of k6007 230 fans permalink
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Ike was a war hero. Let's not perpetuate myths.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 08/12/2008
- jimme I'm a Fan of jimme 8 fans permalink

Audie Murphy was a "true" war hero. McCain was simply a POW, nothing more nothing less.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 PM on 08/12/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 260 fans permalink
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Ike was a brilliant commander but he never saw combat and never came under enemy fire. Today he would be described as a "chickenhawk" by many Democrats.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 PM on 08/12/2008
- steamboat I'm a Fan of steamboat 44 fans permalink

As a fellow VietNam vet I see McCain as a war hero---Period !

And I still will not take the NY Times seriously. Because they did a 'Page One' story as soon as there was a rumor of McCain having an affair with a staff worker. Which was proven totally false...Yet, they sat on John Edwards's affair. With a dying cancer-stricken wife. Even though now it appears their may have been as much as $3-8 MILLION dollars paid in 'hush' monies, while Edwards was a political candidate. And with both Rielle Hunter and Andrew Young receiving huge deluxe homes in Santa Barbara, CA. All kind of violations of campaign laws, not reporting to the IRS, and accounting how all money is spent......So the NYT is not a reliable source.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:43 PM on 08/12/2008
- biglover I'm a Fan of biglover 41 fans permalink

He was not a war hero. Heroes save lives. McCain only saved himself by singing like a bird.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:04 PM on 08/12/2008
- cackal I'm a Fan of cackal 2 fans permalink
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Why is the Times wasting time, ink and paper on this. "Fighter pilot," "Attack Aircraft Pilot" - relevance? This is reminiscent of the silliness over whether Obama was "really a Professor" at Chicago. Has nothing to do with anything.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:23 PM on 08/12/2008
- SMP I'm a Fan of SMP 17 fans permalink
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They realized no one really was interested in the article to begin with...This was just another stab at trying to peak the public interest. we can stamp this effort.... "FAILED"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:35 PM on 08/12/2008
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Well seems Obama was a professor, Harvard informed the media of it, because the Hillary campaign wanted to make Obama into a self glorifing liar. He wasn't. Truth is truth.

McCain was not a jet fighter pilot...but the inference gives him an arura of being more then he is. He should correct the facts. That would be an honerable thing to do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 08/12/2008
- Scribe57 I'm a Fan of Scribe57 44 fans permalink
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The "A" in "A-4" stands for "Attack". Just thought someone should mention that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 PM on 08/12/2008

Right, Its not "F" for fighter as in F-16.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 PM on 08/12/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 260 fans permalink
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Or "B" for badasss like in B-2

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 08/12/2008
- jubal8 I'm a Fan of jubal8 6 fans permalink

and that little tidbit is what we call journalism. Thanks, Scribe57. Keep keeping it real.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 08/12/2008
- k6007 I'm a Fan of k6007 230 fans permalink
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Well, it's the msm's job to tell us what they want us to know. Isn't it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:20 PM on 08/12/2008
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I don't care if he flew a cotton candy balloon. Flying an airplane badly isn't a skill that prepares you for anything in the White House, as we have painfully learned over the past 8 years.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:15 PM on 08/12/2008

say's the guy who voted for kerry...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 PM on 08/12/2008
- Podewumun I'm a Fan of Podewumun 32 fans permalink

...says the guy (Heythatsmybike) who voted for the TANG deserter?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 PM on 08/12/2008
- john85msy I'm a Fan of john85msy 3 fans permalink

Did he really lose 5 aircraft?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:41 PM on 08/12/2008
- SoCalNick I'm a Fan of SoCalNick 80 fans permalink
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YES he did. Far beyond the limits of what would have GROUNDED ANY other Pilot. But what would you expect from a guy who should have not been sent to flight school in the first place seeing that those coveted posts only go to the TOP of the Class Grads and not the BOTTOM!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:59 PM on 08/12/2008

My understanding that 4 of the crashed happened while he was still training to be a pilot.

Makes me wonder how he was able to remain in the program.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:41 PM on 08/12/2008

A-4's and later A-6's flew sorties with the F-4's ( fighter designation) the Attack aircrat weren't specc'd for air to air combat.
Mostly air to ground and electronics jamming.
The A-10 is and air to ground tank killer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 PM on 08/12/2008
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"...and "fighter pilot" is a simple and accurate enough way of describing McCain's military service."

Bullsh*t

Fighter pilots engage in air-to-air combat which requires greater skill, training, judgment and clarity of mind than any other Naval Aviation assignment.

Labeling McCrash as a "fighter pilot" assumes a more agile brain than is available to him.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 PM on 08/12/2008
- GerryS I'm a Fan of GerryS 39 fans permalink
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more GOP embellishment of military service- what do we expect!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 PM on 08/12/2008
- Ajegunle I'm a Fan of Ajegunle 25 fans permalink

CORRECT. FIGHTER PILOTS ARE THE ELITE OF THE AIR FORCE, THE SMARTEST AND THE VERY BEST. HE WAS MERELY A TRANSPORTATION WORKER----A GLORIFIED WARTIME BUS DRIVER---NOTHING MORE.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 PM on 08/12/2008

Here's another story buried in the media section of huffpost

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-nickolas/the-media-created-myth-th_b_118235.html

No hero to Veterans, check the facts!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mpehuQpfd0

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:54 PM on 08/12/2008
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