Solar Power Turf Wars: Solar Industry Holds Back Massive Expansion

When Southern California Edison unveiled plans to install 250 megawatts' worth of solar panels on warehouse roofs back in March, it was hailed as a ground-breaking move. In one fell swoop, the giant utility would cut the cost of photovoltaic power, expand the solar market and kick-start efforts to transform untold acres of sun-baked commercial roof space into mini-power plants.

There's just one problem: the solar industry is fighting the billion-dollar plan. In briefs filed with the California Public Utilities Commission, solar companies, industry trade groups and consumer advocates argue that allowing a utility to own and operate such massive green megawattage will crowd out competitors who can't hope to compete with a project financed by Edison's ratepayers. (In California, shareholders of investor-owned utilities are guaranteed a rate of return for approved projects, while utility customers bear a portion of the costs in the form of higher rates.)

The five-year plan "would establish SCE as the monopoly developer of commercial-scale distributed solar in its service territory," wrote Arno Harris, CEO of Recurrent Energy, a San Francisco company that sells solar electricity to commercial customers. "This would irreparably impair the development of a competitive solar industry."

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Comments

[OneMoreTime]

Come on California....

So what if existing utility companies start generating solar power? Isn't that a good thing? Like a really, really good thing? And don't they ALREADY have a monopoly on power generation?

[ibsteve2u]

In my perspective, the ideal outcome is that every building in America is self-sufficient, energy-wise.

I am getting tired of seeing people cooking on their propane grills on their porches because they cannot pay the electric bill.

Oh, and self-contained systems are much less vulnerable to natural catastrophes and acts of war...plus all of those power lines, poles, and towers are UGLYYYYYYY....and a waste of metals.

[OneMoreTime]

You are exactly right. It's only a matter of time. But hopefully not too long.

Like all other things, it will start slow, slowly build momentum until it becomes "mainstream." Then we can live in happiness in our optimistic future.

[TrevorAlan]

Sounds to me not something unique to SOLAR power, but just another overlooked provision of the really awful power deregulation California passed a few years back, the same reason Enron was allowed to game them into blackouts.

It could be questioned whether it is really true that the whole "solar industry" is against this move by SCE, or whether just a few speculators saw their own pet project being threatened (and not with destruction, just with a slight lowering of profits).

[pinesol]

No future for solar energy UNTIL the evil big oil cartels are brought under control. Right now, the oil cartels are controlling virtually all vital governmental functions, blocking any and all possible hope for cheaper, greener and more abundance energy sources. In short, there should be a war against the evil oil cartels like ExxonMobil and ChevronTexaco. These evil elements are the main, and perhaps the only, obstacle that keeps people from living a healthier and more fulfilling life. We've been breathing toxic air pumped into our atmosphere by these evil oil cartels, who would rather kill people than stand to see a cut in their profits (from emitting more CO2 and other toxic junks).

Instead of spending hundreds of billions of dollars fighting a bogus war in Iraq, American people should wage war against big oil cartels. But then again, America has been hijacked by these evil ba$tards, who have both congress and Bush-Cheney & Co. in their pockets.

[NL207]

"Right now, the oil cartels are controlling virtually all vital governmental functions, blocking any and all possible hope for cheaper, greener and more abundance energy sources"

They are blocking drilling for new oil supplies?

What "cheaper" energy sources are they blocking? Name one and show how 'big oil' is preventing this. Otherwise, find suitable alternative employment for your pie hole.

[TrevorAlan]

Maybe that was once true, but they've done themselves in through their own sheer greed. $25/barrel oil crushed the competitve price of solar, wind and other forms considering their higher start cost per mwatt energy produced. $100/barrel oil, and higher as we may see, makes solar and wind cheap, especially as the technology is cheaper and more efficient than when we first started talking about it in the 1970's.

Yes, oil has used political power as a brake on solar, but the market THEY created is rolling over any efforts they might make to stop it.

[ThankGodforAtheists]

If the major electric utilities want to expand into solar energy, more power to them (pun intended). The cost should be financed like any type of expansion, such as issuance of bonds and stock, reserves, current income streams or a combination. The assets would be captialized and depreciated and built into rate structures over the useful life of the equipment along with capital replacement reserves. This does not mean that rates will automatically increase, as they will be offset by increases in demand and retirement of older assets. With major aquisition of solar equipment, it would bring competition to the solar equipment industry (not undermine it) resulting in the decrease of the costs per unit. Wouldn't this help all? Like all industries, as the solar equipment industry matures, the companies that can't keep up will fall out or be acquire. The lawsuit is just slowing down the inevitable and stopping green energy progress. It is time for the big electic utilities to do something other than burn fossil fuels or plan more nuclear plants.

[coyote4]

This is a tempest in a teapot, where Market Fundamentalists argue that they should have the opportunity to profit, rather than a large utility. Yet this project sits in an unsubsidized area of 1-2 MW roof projects. So free enterprise wants not only to compete with public utilities, but probably wants subsidies also?

In fact these capitalists argue that "this program is taking bread out of our own mouths" as if, in America, it is a RIGHT for free enterprise. As if this right is stolen by Southern California Edison.

So maybe, it is not after all merely a teapot tempest, but a much larger argument where market fundamentalists argue that public utilities are an unfair competitor. The dying breath of the Republican mastodon insisting that all enterprise be privatized.

[TimmySlagle]

I'm not certain I get the gist of this story.

If there is unlimited demand for Solar Power, there should be plenty of room for small and big businesses to make some decent cash.

I mean, isn't Alternative Energy the wave of the future? The NEW economy, that will produce thousands of NEW jobs, and make America the NEW world technology leader?

Isn't this what all the Solar freaks have been pitching around the HuffPo for years?

So what's the holdup?

[TrooAmerican]

Im all for doing these types of things but not at the cost to the taxpayer.
How is Edison putting buying the equipment, installing it and gleaning the energy from it, any different than building a Dam on a river and taking that energy and selling it to consumers or businesses?

?
I think the real problem here is consumers shouldnt be paying for Edison to make profit and shareholders should be required to accept that a company to GROW needs to INVEST.

ANd i think the solar industry doesnt want prices to come down yet. obviously.

[KillTheMessenger]

Nobody stops you from buying your own solar panels. If you think that you can make electricity cheaper for yourself than they can, go for it.

Your analogy is flawed, by the way. In the case of a utility getting access to a natural resource like a unique location where a hydroelectric dam can be built, the utility is at an unfair advantage because individuals will not be able to get that kind of access (they don't have the ability to build a dam in the first place). With solar panels, however, it's all up for grabs. You can buy them just as they can. They will make the same amount of electricity for you that they will make for them.

If you are unhappy with the potential tax deal that you get in comparison with them, elect politicians who will change that.

[leduck]

yeah..., yeah..., yeah....
batteries suck
they just store energy (and really aren't very good at it)
not very energy dense

but solar isn't good enough
when the sun god uses his chariot to carry the sun bleow the horizon..., then what?

i propose LUNAR energy
a solar cell sensitive enough to convert moonlight to electricity
of course, it wont work on a new moon
or with a crescent phase
but during those periods we can take those times of night off to pray to the moon goddess

LUNAR ENERGY -- i see it in our future -- works best on a full moon

[OldKnute]

LEDUCK???

Oh now that is just silly. When God rides his chariot below the horizon,,, it is so China gets some warmth too. They are his children tooo,, ya know.

Oh and batteries not good enough?

Have you ever droped a wrench across a terminal of a battery?

I am talking an OLD,, 1930s Battery? Watch out!

Solar works just as well in Main as it does in Florida. But they will never tell you that.

When God is warming China,, this is when Wind kicks in.

As far as the moon,,, when we finally get off our arse and put a base there,,, it WILL be Solar Powered.

So,,,, I,,,,, 100% support your idea of,,, Lunar Solar Power.

All the best

Knute Neo-LIB

[OldKnute]

And now you are witness to the beginning of Solar Wars.

The main question will come,,, IN TIME,,, who owns the sun?

The Monopoly argument is foolish. Few a precious few dollars,,, ANY,, home owner,, ANY,, Apartment Complex,,, Warehouse,, Mega Store,, can be 100% Independent from even using the Grid or supplied electrical power,,,, IN TOTAL.

To even suggest otherwise,,, is a SCAM.

Electrical Energy companies are acutely aware of the losses involved with the transmission, conversion in voltage, capacity and redundancy required by Centralized sourcing of power.

Electrical losses that account for more than 60% of all electrical power WASTE, in a TOP DOWN,, Centralized Grid system.

This is why Southern California Edison is choosing a Decentralized,,,, WHERE THE DEMAND IS,,, Model.

POINT OF USE.

There is NO Monopoly when each and every home owner,, using the same technology,, can choose to do exactly the same thing.

Eddison"s hands are CLEAN,, of any cry of Monopoly.

If you calculate the surface area of Mega-Retailers,, Storehouses,, Warehouses, Downtown Business districts,,, Minni-Malls,, Factories,,, Public Buildings,, High-rises,, Universities,, that SCE,, can,,, PRIVATLY contract for use,,, the hidden potential is enormous.

This Solar Leasing Model,, Distributed Grid,, is being copied all over the WORLD. Southern California Edison is just one, in a FLOOD of Electrical Companies and NATIOND that are adopting this business approach.

A flood of change,,, that is being seen from Berlin, to Beijing,, Hong Kong to Huston, ALL OVER THE WORLD.

All the best

Knute Neo-LIB

[KillTheMessenger]

There is no war here. Just a lot of silliness. Who stops YOU from buying your own panels? Not a single law, certainly not your utility company. It just happens that they can make electricity cheaper than you by using the same technology because they are making a lot more of it.

[research]

if you live in AZ CA CN MN CO Mo NY OR TX,

Installed Solar power is FREE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.power-savetv.com/incentives.html

[OldKnute]

OMG,,, Good one Research¦

Yea,,,, how can claim Monopoly when each homeowner can do the same for FREE!!!!!

Yep,,, Click the link provided by Research,,, they are right..

YOU,, can compete with Edison,,, FOR FREE.

All the best

Knute Neo-LIB

[FlyingLow]

"Research" is actually a shill for a marketing company called power saver. Power Saver spams you repeatedly with come-ons, even in states where there are no economic incentives. I would strongly advice you to not click on the link in "Research's" post unless you love spam.

[research]

No, I'm not. I know nothing about "power Saver" other then what I have seen on their website. One person has responded, saying they have used them, it it's working great. I haven't gotten any spam from them.

[research]

BTW FlyingLow is a competing Solar installer.

[ThirdEye]

Would be nice if we could focus on the BIG picture as KillTheMessenger so aptly points out instead of always focusing on the money. Just like in all the solar info out there it seems like the first question most people ask in regards to installing solar is "What's the payback time?".Do you ask what the payback time is on your $15,000.00 granite counter tops in your kitchen?If we could just focus on the BIG picture more often maybe we can get out of this mess we've created for ourselves.
Remember.....Where you spend your money is the best vote you have to make a change.

[KillTheMessenger]

But, but, but... people need granite counter tops! Especially the ones that feel ripped off when they have to pay one cent more per kWh for their states solar program.

;-)

[OldKnute]

Killthemessenger,

Yes, they will complain. Yes,, you are right. Hey,, it may be part of the American way. I do see your point.

But Killer,,, if you would but check into the Business Openings,, for Solar Contractors, Electric Car conversions, Electric Bike Dealers, Hits on Solar Retailer Websites, orders being taken, installations going up, Wind Turbine Manufactures that are backlogged in delivery.

Many others are NOT complaining.

Patriotic?

Some are Patriotic,, they are doing it for America., they are building our future,, one car, one roof, one turbine at a time.

Some are just mad as hell and they aren"t going to take it any more.

But Killthemessenger,, GM, SCE, GE, FORD, HONDA, BMW, TOYOTA are not all complaining.

They see the,,,, GREEN FLOOD,,,, coming and the are riding the WAVE.

The re-volition is not coming,, not someday,,, It"s ALREADY OVER.

And we won.

All the best

Knute Neo-LIB

[research]

Gotta agree, let's start installing the Solar ASAP.

One change, that should appease all but competing private energy producers, would be to allow individuals and businesses to buy the solar panel systems from the utility. My guess is, virtually nobody wants to do that, unless they have 2-4 years of excess cash sitting around. The Article is poor. What does the utility pay for using these rooftops?

[OldKnute]

Well,, if I know Edison like I do,, it will probably will share 30% with the Lease until the installation is re-capitalized, in all costs.

Next,, they will probably offer a 40% remittance,,, long term. 60% of the power,, Edison can sell to others.

But think of this from the Lessee perspective.

These Companies, Business, Corporations,,, in one action,,, by one CEO can return to their shareholders AND,, in Fact,,, show a 30% reduction in energy costs,,, over the next,, 25 years.

Now,, if you were a CEO scrambling to improve your bottom-line,, improve profitability, demonstrate your concern for the Environment,, improve your public image, Patriotism, GREEN perception,,, and someone is willing to hand you Millions in savings,,, every MONTH,,, what would you do?

If you chose not to.

How will you support your not being FIRED,, at the next board of directors meeting,, when every other Home Depot, Bank, Burger King, BIG BOX, Mini-Mall,,, in Southern California,, HAS DONE what you thought was foolish?

How will you defend that wasting money, loosing money, paying MORE for energy,,,, For the NEXT 25 YEARS,,, is better?

All the best

Knute Neo-LIB

[KillTheMessenger]

Why would you buy solar panels from a utility? Solar panels are freely traded industrial goods. You can buy them from the manufacturer (if they sell in small quantities) or from any number of local retailers (which are usually in the business of installing them). I don't see why going through a utility company without a sales network for hardware would have any advantage.

[tompoe]

By the way, consumer advocates are on the side of the general public. Any consumer advocate group that fights this, is obviously a front for corporate interests, not the public's interest.

[DRaymond]

....and the entire universe must be viewed throught the lens that whatever is good for corportations must be bad for consumers....

[tompoe]

A private company argues that infrastructure needs could be met, when the company decides the profit margin is sufficient. Until then, infrastructure needs will not be met. Local and state government agree that now is when the infrastructure needs need to be met. If a private company wants to meet those needs, they simply step up, or take their you-know-whats to someplace else. Where do they get off dictating infrastructure policies to local and state government? We're getting the same crap from the telcos/cablecos with our telecommunications needs. It's time to act, and shout really loud.

[KillTheMessenger]

We are fighting over 250MW? What nonsense. We need 500GW of solar installations, i.e. 2000 times as much as this turf war is about.

[FrictionSoul]

It's not a turf war, it's a money war. It favors the big utilities, and shuts out the smaller players.

[KillTheMessenger]

If you ever thought the big utilities would not win this, you were naive. If you think that one can generate 1000GW of power without having massive players involved, you are still naive.

In any case, if the little ones start fighting for 10^-3 of the market this early, they are just admitting that they have lost already.