Georgia President: We'll Never Give Up Breakaway Provinces

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CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA | August 17, 2008 11:56 PM EST | AP

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An aid worker looks on as residents wait for humanitarian aid distributed from a bus in Gori, northwest of the Georgian capital Tbilisi, Sunday, Aug. 17, 2008. Russian military authorities issued a flurry of conflicting reports Sunday about whether Russian troops had begun to pull out of South Ossetia, one of Georgia's two separatist provinces. (AP Photo/Darko Bandic)

GORI, Georgia — Russia's president promised to start withdrawing forces from positions in Georgia on Monday, but suggested they could stay in the breakaway region at the heart of the fighting that has reignited Cold War tensions.

Top American officials said Washington would rethink its relationship with Moscow after its military drive deep into its much smaller neighbor and called for a swift Russian withdrawal.

"I think there needs to be a strong, unified response to Russia to send the message that this kind of behavior, characteristic of the Soviet period, has no place in the 21st century," Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Sunday.

But neither Gates nor Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice would be specific about what punitive actions the U.S. or the international community might take.

Bolstered by Western support, Georgia's leader vowed never to abandon its claim to territory now firmly in the hands of Russia and its separatist allies, even though he has few means of asserting control. His pledge, echoed by Western insistence that Georgia must not be broken apart, portends further tension over separatist South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

In Gori, a strategic central city in the small former Soviet republic, there were signs of a looser Russian grip _ and scenes of desperation as Georgians crowded around aid vehicles and grasped for loaves of bread.

Georgia hit the Russia-backed separatist region of South Ossetia with a massive barrage on Aug. 7, and Russian troops rolled in, advancing far into the Caucasus Mountain nation and raising fears of a long-term occupation of a country at the center of a power struggle between a resurgent Russia and the West.

The troops would leave, a Russian lawmaker said, "sooner or later."

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"But how much time it will take, it depends, definitely, on how Georgians will continue to behave," said the lawmaker, Konstantin Kosachev, chairman of a Russian parliament foreign affairs committee.

Rice, who is flying to Europe on Monday to talk with NATO allies about what message the West should send to Russia, said Russia can't use "disproportionate force" against its neighbor and still be welcomed into the halls of international institutions.

"It's not going to happen that way," she said. "Russia will pay a price."

French President Nicolas Sarkozy warned Russia's president of "serious consequences" in Moscow's relations with the European Union if Russia does not comply with the cease-fire accord.

Later, Sarkozy said in an opinion article published on Le Figaro newspaper's Web site that if Russia did not "rapidly and totally" follow the pullout specified in the cease-fire, he would "have to call an extraordinary meeting of the Council of the European Union to decide what consequences to draw."

Medvedev had told Sarkozy that Russian troops would begin pulling back on Monday, headed toward South Ossetia. He stopped short of promising they would return to Russia.

The New York Times, citing anonymous U.S. officials who were familiar with intelligence reports, reported Sunday that the Russian military moved missile launchers into South Ossetia on Friday.

The U.S. officials told the Times that Russia deployed several SS-21 missile launchers to positions north of Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital. That would put the missiles within range of Georgia's capital, Tbilisi, the Times reported on its Web site.

The EU-backed cease-fire agreement calls for Georgian and Russian troops to withdraw to the positions they held before fighting broke out Aug. 7.

But Medvedev's silence on South Ossetia has fueled fears that Russia could annex the region, which _ like Abkhazia _ broke from Georgia government control in the 1990s and has declared independence. Getting Abkhazia alone would increase the length of Russia's Black Sea coast by more than 25 percent.

"Georgia will never give up a square kilometer of its territory," Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili told a news conference alongside Germany's Angela Merkel, the latest Western leader to visit Tbilisi and offer support for the country he has led on a pro-Western path, seeking to shake off a history of domination by Moscow.

"I expect a very fast, very prompt withdrawal of Russian troops out of Georgia," Merkel said in a courtyard at Saakashvili's official residence. She reiterated a Western promise that Georgia will eventually join NATO, but said she could not say when that would happen.

As Merkel spoke, Russian tanks and troops continued to control a wide swath of Georgia, including the main highway running through the country, the strategic central city of Gori, the western city of Senaki and the Senaki air base.

On Sunday evening, Russian armored personnel carriers and tanks carrying military hardware traveled away from Senaki on a road that leads to Zugdidi, a city just outside Abkhazia _ possibly pulling out, though their destination was unclear.

In the western town of Zugdidi, residents took to the streets earlier Sunday to protest the Russian presence in Georgia. Demonstrators including politicians and Orthodox priests carried religious icons and sprinkled holy water as they marched, some holding red-and-white Georgian flags of pictures of Saakashvili.

"We are waiting for more support from other countries because this is not a war between Russian and Georgia, it's a war between civilization and barbarism," said Eldar Kbernadze, a member of Georgia's parliament who was among the protesters.

Saakashvili alleged that Russian forces, far from withdrawing, had moved closer to the capital Saturday and vowed to defend Tbilisi if necessary. He also accused Russia of ethnic cleansing and said Georgia would not accept the future presence of Russian peacekeepers.

A large banner hanging Sunday in front of the Parliament building in central Tbilisi read: "No war, Russia go home."

On the outskirts of the city, hundreds of Georgian refugees tended to children, tried to wash near open taps and sought shelter in tents Sunday in a makeshift refugee camp.

Georgia's government minister for refugees, Koba Subeliani, said there were 140,000 displaced people in Tbilisi and the surrounding area.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon is considering sending over several high-ranking U.N. officials, including monitors and a top official with the U.N. refugee agency, according to a U.S. official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information.

Elsewhere, the Russian checkpoint at the entrance to Gori was less fortified than in previous days. In the city, where buildings were blackened by fire from fighting or bombing, there was a light presence of Russian troops and a few tanks.

Marc Baldan, a surgeon from the International Committee of the Red Cross, which delivered some medicine and food in Gori, said the city's hospital was functioning and that drugs for heart disease, hypertension and diabetes, unavailable during the conflict, had been delivered.

"Each day looks better," he said. "But we still do not have the full picture."

But as clusters of people gathered by aid vehicles in hopes of getting loaves of bread, others had even deeper worries.

"I do not know where my children are and you can imagine how I feel about it," one Georgian woman named Manana, who did not give her last name for fear of reprisals, told an AP television crew in Gori.

___

Associated Press writers David Nowak, Steve Gutterman and Jill Lawless in Moscow, and Michael Fischer and Matti Friedman in Tbilisi, Georgia, and Deb Riechmann in Crawford, Texas contributed to this report.

GORI, Georgia — Russia's president promised to start withdrawing forces from positions in Georgia on Monday, but suggested they could stay in the breakaway region at the heart of the fighting th...
GORI, Georgia — Russia's president promised to start withdrawing forces from positions in Georgia on Monday, but suggested they could stay in the breakaway region at the heart of the fighting th...
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Wait a minute. Bush, McCain and Obama have all condemned Russia over this affair. Obama even took time off from his vacation to do so. Now Georgia is behaving with arrogance and belligerence. Seems like maybe it isn't so cut-and-dried who the bad guys are. So the question is, why did Obama agree with McCain and Bush on this? Was he just saying that to get votes (from people who weren't ever going to vote for him anyway)? Who'd have thought that parroting Bush talking points and putting a neo-con (Dennis Ross) on one's campaign staff would be perceived as "change"?

"One thing that's different is oceans no longer keep us safe."
--George Bush September 23, 2002

"...we know that the American people cannot be protected by oceans..."
--Barack Obama, July 15, 2008

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:03 PM on 08/17/2008
- lisakaz2 I'm a Fan of lisakaz2 82 fans permalink
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He didn't entirely agree. I think he didn't want to give credence to Mc-Booo$h's jibe that he takes orders from Mosow. Gorby says Georgia brought it on itself and he was the leader of both areas, not just Russia. I think he should be given some credibility.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:30 PM on 08/17/2008

Spin spin spin, aren't you getting dizzy by now? O asked for calm heads to step forward in this matter and wasn't one of those chest pounders the reeps seem to favor. I guess a persons point of view is based on your info source. I wonder why so many are content with one source or just a few? Finding one source that agrees with you is limiting and surprises can come along. This is the info age and people need to broaden their perceptions, not narrow them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 PM on 08/17/2008
- who38 I'm a Fan of who38 64 fans permalink

Oceans cannot protect people from drowning. Did John say that?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:44 PM on 08/17/2008
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F-rance, A-merica and G-ermany all have made efforts to calm S-aakashvill down. At the end of each meeting with him, when they make a joint appearance before the press he goes into a new rant.
He then goes on C N N for what in now a daily raving of the conditions in Georgia. This man is a loose cannon and cannot be controlled. A-merica and E-urope are not going to war with R-ussia to protect G-eorgia...He needs to back off or he may very well be a victim of a tragic event and R-ussia will get full credit............

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 08/17/2008
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 08/17/2008
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It won't be long now.......­..........­.....:)

Thanks for the link....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:05 PM on 08/17/2008
- ZHarris I'm a Fan of ZHarris 48 fans permalink
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Heh, I wonder if they used lead in that red dye...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:06 PM on 08/17/2008
- the964kid I'm a Fan of the964kid 61 fans permalink
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Russia definitely hurt it's long term outlook by over-playing this situation. Now Ukraine and Georgia are sure to end up in, or in partnership, with NATO, and US missile defense systems will be right at the Russian border. This also makes other countries on Russia's border want to ally themselves with the West. Not a smart move by Russia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:52 PM on 08/17/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

Well, yes and no.

It wasn't smart for the reasons you stated, but it was smart in that Russia now knows what the West will (or more accurately, won't) do in light of its recent actions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 08/17/2008
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 617 fans permalink
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They have 22,496 nukes, who is smart ? Go scr*w with them, have a good time, enjoy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:59 PM on 08/17/2008
- elcojonu I'm a Fan of elcojonu 28 fans permalink

What would stop the Russians from moving into eastern Ukraine where there is a majority Russian population ?
Anyway, the best Strategic way to deploy Nukes is on Sub-based Cruise missiles; they're all over the Oceans, hard to find.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:10 PM on 08/17/2008
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 567 fans permalink
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Well, there's basically no ethnic difference between Ukranians and Russians, but that doesn't mean most Ukranians would want to go back to being ruled by Moscow. There's no ethnic difference between Canada and the US (same mix-up), but we'd never become the 51st state, not even if you try to bribe us all... :)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:24 PM on 08/17/2008
- JiminNC I'm a Fan of JiminNC 268 fans permalink
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There is very little actually. Russia has toyed with cutting off the natural gas supply in dead of winter over the past two years. They actually froze a bunch of old folks in 2006. The "new" Russian expansion is not new at all to her neighbors.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:44 PM on 08/17/2008

Brilliant move Bush as usual.

We've got no play here. From the top down this is a losing proposition.
Keeping South Ossetia and Abkhazia part of Georgia is not a vital US national interest. It is not a vital interest to NATO or to the rest of Europe.

Putin knows. The Russians won. Why should they behave as if they lost? He knows even Bush isn't dumb enough to escalate to World War Three over this. He knows he's looking like the world's biggest hypocrite for allowing Kosovo independence but denying South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Especially after loudmouth Saakashvii unleashed a barrage on what he claims are his own citizens.

If you want a true example of "empty rhetoric" this is it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 PM on 08/17/2008
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US Imperialism and Russian aggression - no innocents in this conflict.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 PM on 08/17/2008
- lisakaz2 I'm a Fan of lisakaz2 82 fans permalink
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Don't forget Georgian aggression.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:45 PM on 08/17/2008

George Bush is definitely dumb enough to start world war three. He could do it just for spite. All we can do is hope he settles for blowing off his stupid mouth. On one thing you can rely. The Democrats (speaking of stupid) will do nothing to stop him.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 PM on 08/17/2008

It wasn't important enough to him to cut short his Olympic trip.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 PM on 08/17/2008
- who38 I'm a Fan of who38 64 fans permalink

True enough about the Dems.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:01 PM on 08/17/2008
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 617 fans permalink
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There seems to be some question of who provoked who in this mess, did not Georgia attack South Ossetia and kill 1600 citizens ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 PM on 08/17/2008
- 23000Days I'm a Fan of 23000Days 93 fans permalink
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As I understand it, Georgia, after agreeing to a structure of independence for A .& S.O., was responding to continued attacks on it's peacekeeping troops in those breakaway areas, by russian-armed seperatists. Several Georgian troops were killed in an attack in S.O..

As usual, the truth will be the first casualty of war.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:06 PM on 08/17/2008
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Last reports I read said the number of civilians killed by the Georgians had been grossly exagerated, but its kind of hard to tell with all the bandits, and thugs following the Russian Army around, and burning and looting the Georgian villages. When two sides are jacking with each other incessantly its kind of hard to lay complete blame on either. It does seem clear whatever happened was just the excuse Russia was waiting for to decimate Georgia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:12 PM on 08/17/2008
- who38 I'm a Fan of who38 64 fans permalink

I believe that you are right. The militias are coming in and looting and no one is stopping them---neither the Georgians or the Russians. Kind of like Blackwater in Iraq.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:05 PM on 08/17/2008

It appears the 2 thousand [as first reported by Russia] were actually 44 or 45 people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 PM on 08/17/2008

We do love our wars. Can't get enough of them. A lot like potato chips.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 PM on 08/17/2008
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 617 fans permalink
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We eat potato chips while watching war. You can't wage just one.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 PM on 08/17/2008
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 617 fans permalink
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98 lb weakling kicks sand in the face of muscle bound Russia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 PM on 08/17/2008

and then gets thrashed and runs sobbing to mommy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:43 PM on 08/17/2008

LATEST NEWS from Olympics. Georgian army won all the remaining gold medals in long distance running.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 PM on 08/17/2008
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We know that the Likudists (Israeli neocons) had a thousand military advisers in Georgia

and we had CIA, State Dept. and ??? by the dozens. We also know that we have aggravated

situation with the Russians with missile defense and NATO membership offers in Eastern

Europe that must have been considered as hostile to them. We also legitimized unilateral

aggression by attacking and occupying Iraq and by threatening Iran. Then we encouraged

the Georgians to move into 'neutral areas' militarily with no ability to back them up. It's all

about neocon arrogance and very little sophistication or realistic, reality based intelligence.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 PM on 08/17/2008
- noen I'm a Fan of noen 4 fans permalink

These f*cking morons are going to get us into a nuclear war with Russia just to help McCain's candidacy. Unbelievable.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:46 PM on 08/17/2008
- AtheistUS I'm a Fan of AtheistUS 65 fans permalink
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Exactly. The stupid phrase
"Georgia, which has sought NATO membership, launched a massive barrage Aug. 7 to try to take control of South Ossetia."
means really that Georgia invaded South Ossetia first, and attacked russian troups first, and then Russia responded. I'd consider Georgia president as much guilty (or a lot more) than the Russian Medvedev/Putin, and all of them could never reach by stupidity and criminality our own Bush/Cheney. South Ossetia and Abkhazia are similar to Kosovo, and probably eventually should be independent from Georgia, as de facto they are for many years. It is nothing like our occupation of Iraq.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 PM on 08/17/2008
- bluesnot I'm a Fan of bluesnot 13 fans permalink

i wish Republicans would quit getting the country involved in wars for political and monetary gain.

This Russia-Georgia blow-up is manufactured to showcase McCain's macho war lust.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 PM on 08/17/2008
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McBellicose is having a grand time waving his tin sword at everyone's expense.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 08/17/2008

Puppeteer Putin miming Puppeteer Bush

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 08/17/2008
- ZHarris I'm a Fan of ZHarris 48 fans permalink
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The both have... the SMIRK.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 PM on 08/17/2008
- JoeBlough I'm a Fan of JoeBlough 60 fans permalink
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I think the Russians should stay in Georgia until the Generals on the ground say the country is secure. A contingent of 150K mercenaries should be brought in to protect the diplomats. Perhas a winning surge to fool people that the country is O.K. Oh, and hire Halliburton to rebuild the schools. There could be profit here after all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 08/17/2008
- who38 I'm a Fan of who38 64 fans permalink

Thank you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:04 PM on 08/17/2008

Thanks for Russia two ethnic communities will have their freedom from Georgians. You can agree or disagree with it. But this is done deal. So relax and enjoy the ride
By the way Abkhasians kicked out Georgians out of their territory on their own! This was easy because Georgians army wasn't issued their regulation set of adult diapers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 08/17/2008
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 567 fans permalink
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So, when will the Chechens have their freedom from Russia?

You're the Russian version of a neocon. Just as hypocritical...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:08 PM on 08/17/2008
- JoJoKewl I'm a Fan of JoJoKewl 32 fans permalink

Georgia wants America to fight Russia. How many of you trollies think that's a good idea???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:21 PM on 08/17/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

It's a terrible idea, but Russia played this brilliantly by starting with Georgia.

They provoked an attack by a country with questionable sympathy (the fact that the majority of the posters in this thread are actually attacking Georgia demonstrates that) on its own breakaway regions that allowed themselves to be perceived as "defenders", and also to test the waters, and discovered that the West is all talk and little action in resisting their moves. Now that the Russians know that, they could move on other areas like Crimea and Eastern Ukraine...I doubt the US and the EU will do much more than they already have to stop them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 PM on 08/17/2008
- bluesnot I'm a Fan of bluesnot 13 fans permalink

Baloney, Rice, Rove, Bush, et al, started it.

McCain has the Georgian lobbyist.

Please, it is so obvious.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:28 PM on 08/17/2008
- tomomaha I'm a Fan of tomomaha 2 fans permalink

Since April it has been clear Russia would engage in a conflict with Georgia to forestall Georgian membership in NATO.

Even if there were Russian provocations, it is clear that it was Saakashvili who chose to begin a major conflagration, and, curiously enough, on the first day of the Olympics, something which was really not in his interests. This points to the geo-political interests of the other players with whom this action was planned.

The main point that few in the mass media are asking is, does Russia have a right and a duty to resist NATO encirclement, which puts at at the mercy of two-bit authoritarian hysterics like Saakashvili. Remember, with NATO behind them, Georgia will start helping to re-arm Chechen terrorists (like it did in the 90's).

As George Kennan said in a prophetic 1997 NYT op-ed:

"expanding NATO would be the most fateful error of American policy in the entire post-cold war era."

"Such a decision may be expected to inflame the nationalistic, anti-Western and militaristic tendencies in Russian opinion; to have an adverse effect on the development of Russian democracy; to restore the atmosphere of the cold war to East-West relations, and to impel Russian foreign policy in directions decidedly not to our liking,"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 08/17/2008
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I think a new power bloc in Eurasia will emerge. Russia has land-based oil and gas pipelines across its territory and will become a strategic partner of Europe. Eurasia will have an infrastructure advantage.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:16 PM on 08/17/2008
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