Georgia President: We'll Never Give Up Breakaway Provinces

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CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA | August 17, 2008 11:56 PM EST | AP

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An aid worker looks on as residents wait for humanitarian aid distributed from a bus in Gori, northwest of the Georgian capital Tbilisi, Sunday, Aug. 17, 2008. Russian military authorities issued a flurry of conflicting reports Sunday about whether Russian troops had begun to pull out of South Ossetia, one of Georgia's two separatist provinces. (AP Photo/Darko Bandic)

GORI, Georgia — Russia's president promised to start withdrawing forces from positions in Georgia on Monday, but suggested they could stay in the breakaway region at the heart of the fighting that has reignited Cold War tensions.

Top American officials said Washington would rethink its relationship with Moscow after its military drive deep into its much smaller neighbor and called for a swift Russian withdrawal.

"I think there needs to be a strong, unified response to Russia to send the message that this kind of behavior, characteristic of the Soviet period, has no place in the 21st century," Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Sunday.

But neither Gates nor Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice would be specific about what punitive actions the U.S. or the international community might take.

Bolstered by Western support, Georgia's leader vowed never to abandon its claim to territory now firmly in the hands of Russia and its separatist allies, even though he has few means of asserting control. His pledge, echoed by Western insistence that Georgia must not be broken apart, portends further tension over separatist South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

In Gori, a strategic central city in the small former Soviet republic, there were signs of a looser Russian grip _ and scenes of desperation as Georgians crowded around aid vehicles and grasped for loaves of bread.

Georgia hit the Russia-backed separatist region of South Ossetia with a massive barrage on Aug. 7, and Russian troops rolled in, advancing far into the Caucasus Mountain nation and raising fears of a long-term occupation of a country at the center of a power struggle between a resurgent Russia and the West.

The troops would leave, a Russian lawmaker said, "sooner or later."

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"But how much time it will take, it depends, definitely, on how Georgians will continue to behave," said the lawmaker, Konstantin Kosachev, chairman of a Russian parliament foreign affairs committee.

Rice, who is flying to Europe on Monday to talk with NATO allies about what message the West should send to Russia, said Russia can't use "disproportionate force" against its neighbor and still be welcomed into the halls of international institutions.

"It's not going to happen that way," she said. "Russia will pay a price."

French President Nicolas Sarkozy warned Russia's president of "serious consequences" in Moscow's relations with the European Union if Russia does not comply with the cease-fire accord.

Later, Sarkozy said in an opinion article published on Le Figaro newspaper's Web site that if Russia did not "rapidly and totally" follow the pullout specified in the cease-fire, he would "have to call an extraordinary meeting of the Council of the European Union to decide what consequences to draw."

Medvedev had told Sarkozy that Russian troops would begin pulling back on Monday, headed toward South Ossetia. He stopped short of promising they would return to Russia.

The New York Times, citing anonymous U.S. officials who were familiar with intelligence reports, reported Sunday that the Russian military moved missile launchers into South Ossetia on Friday.

The U.S. officials told the Times that Russia deployed several SS-21 missile launchers to positions north of Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital. That would put the missiles within range of Georgia's capital, Tbilisi, the Times reported on its Web site.

The EU-backed cease-fire agreement calls for Georgian and Russian troops to withdraw to the positions they held before fighting broke out Aug. 7.

But Medvedev's silence on South Ossetia has fueled fears that Russia could annex the region, which _ like Abkhazia _ broke from Georgia government control in the 1990s and has declared independence. Getting Abkhazia alone would increase the length of Russia's Black Sea coast by more than 25 percent.

"Georgia will never give up a square kilometer of its territory," Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili told a news conference alongside Germany's Angela Merkel, the latest Western leader to visit Tbilisi and offer support for the country he has led on a pro-Western path, seeking to shake off a history of domination by Moscow.

"I expect a very fast, very prompt withdrawal of Russian troops out of Georgia," Merkel said in a courtyard at Saakashvili's official residence. She reiterated a Western promise that Georgia will eventually join NATO, but said she could not say when that would happen.

As Merkel spoke, Russian tanks and troops continued to control a wide swath of Georgia, including the main highway running through the country, the strategic central city of Gori, the western city of Senaki and the Senaki air base.

On Sunday evening, Russian armored personnel carriers and tanks carrying military hardware traveled away from Senaki on a road that leads to Zugdidi, a city just outside Abkhazia _ possibly pulling out, though their destination was unclear.

In the western town of Zugdidi, residents took to the streets earlier Sunday to protest the Russian presence in Georgia. Demonstrators including politicians and Orthodox priests carried religious icons and sprinkled holy water as they marched, some holding red-and-white Georgian flags of pictures of Saakashvili.

"We are waiting for more support from other countries because this is not a war between Russian and Georgia, it's a war between civilization and barbarism," said Eldar Kbernadze, a member of Georgia's parliament who was among the protesters.

Saakashvili alleged that Russian forces, far from withdrawing, had moved closer to the capital Saturday and vowed to defend Tbilisi if necessary. He also accused Russia of ethnic cleansing and said Georgia would not accept the future presence of Russian peacekeepers.

A large banner hanging Sunday in front of the Parliament building in central Tbilisi read: "No war, Russia go home."

On the outskirts of the city, hundreds of Georgian refugees tended to children, tried to wash near open taps and sought shelter in tents Sunday in a makeshift refugee camp.

Georgia's government minister for refugees, Koba Subeliani, said there were 140,000 displaced people in Tbilisi and the surrounding area.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon is considering sending over several high-ranking U.N. officials, including monitors and a top official with the U.N. refugee agency, according to a U.S. official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information.

Elsewhere, the Russian checkpoint at the entrance to Gori was less fortified than in previous days. In the city, where buildings were blackened by fire from fighting or bombing, there was a light presence of Russian troops and a few tanks.

Marc Baldan, a surgeon from the International Committee of the Red Cross, which delivered some medicine and food in Gori, said the city's hospital was functioning and that drugs for heart disease, hypertension and diabetes, unavailable during the conflict, had been delivered.

"Each day looks better," he said. "But we still do not have the full picture."

But as clusters of people gathered by aid vehicles in hopes of getting loaves of bread, others had even deeper worries.

"I do not know where my children are and you can imagine how I feel about it," one Georgian woman named Manana, who did not give her last name for fear of reprisals, told an AP television crew in Gori.

___

Associated Press writers David Nowak, Steve Gutterman and Jill Lawless in Moscow, and Michael Fischer and Matti Friedman in Tbilisi, Georgia, and Deb Riechmann in Crawford, Texas contributed to this report.

GORI, Georgia — Russia's president promised to start withdrawing forces from positions in Georgia on Monday, but suggested they could stay in the breakaway region at the heart of the fighting th...
GORI, Georgia — Russia's president promised to start withdrawing forces from positions in Georgia on Monday, but suggested they could stay in the breakaway region at the heart of the fighting th...
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"Georgia President: We'll Never Give Up Breakaway Provinces"
It is no longer yours to give up, katzo.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:15 PM on 08/17/2008

Kosovo had a pro-independence referendum. Of course first they ethnically cleansed Serbs and Christians. Some Serb villages were given wholesale to Al Qaeda Jinadists as a reward for fighting. International community rushed their idenpendence recognition.

South Ossetia had a pro-independence referendum AND they WILL gain their independence from Georgia. Especially now that Georgians lost the war.
Deal with it ....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:15 PM on 08/17/2008
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 599 fans permalink
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Sure, the Serbs never ethnically cleansed anybody and Milosevic was really a misunderstood humanitari­an...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:17 PM on 08/17/2008

Your opinion, not mine. Learn to read.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:28 PM on 08/17/2008

The Serbs only constituted about 10% of the population. Kosovo has the right to be independent of Serbia, just as South Ossetia has the right to be independent of Georgia.

But a really just settlement for Kosovo would have been to divide it up and let Serbia keep about 10% of Kosovo, including the most historically important areas for Serbia, such as the Field of Blackbirds and some of the most important monestaries.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 PM on 08/17/2008

there is not much america can do short of starting a nuclear war and the un security council cannot help either because of russia's veto power, china is a good friend of russia so they will not do anything to help. pastor warren is the only hope the world has left.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:10 PM on 08/17/2008
- JoJoKewl I'm a Fan of JoJoKewl 32 fans permalink

If he's our only hope we've had the shnitzel.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:15 PM on 08/17/2008
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Isn't there supposed to be a quiet depressed side to go with your mania?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 PM on 08/17/2008
- ZHarris I'm a Fan of ZHarris 48 fans permalink
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but what would Hil liary do?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:23 PM on 08/17/2008

And Russia can retaliate against any economic sanctions by cutting back on the flow of oil, or cutting it off altogether for a while.

Russia's economy has recovered due to the increase in the price of oil. It is once again one of he world's major powers and the United States is going to have to learn to deal with that reality.

The neocon's plans for U.S. world domination are toat.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:32 PM on 08/17/2008
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Perfect display of brownshirt groupthink.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:35 PM on 08/17/2008
- ibsteve2u I'm a Fan of ibsteve2u 142 fans permalink
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I note that the normally boisterous voices of PNAC - or whatever their nom de guerre (DFF?) is these days - seem to be somewhat muted.

Could it be that Cheney - with his advice and gameplan of "Oil remains fundamentally a government business." sees the acquisition by force of the oil and gas transportation lines through Georgia as being "fundamentally" Russia's right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 08/17/2008

The neocons/cheney are putting alot of pressure on Bush to start a war with Russia....­they are blaming Condi for this fiasco. Thes idiots will destroy the US....or even the whole world with their stupidity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:10 PM on 08/17/2008
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 599 fans permalink
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Nope. The US military doesn't have the guts to fight anything more than a low-morale and depleted force, armed with obsolete equipment and no effective anti-aircraft weapons. The neocons are cowards, only attack the extremely weak.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:11 PM on 08/17/2008
- ibsteve2u I'm a Fan of ibsteve2u 142 fans permalink
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Well, there will probably be war, then...it is when they are acting "behind the scenes" and not out in public crowing about their successes that we have the most to fear.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 PM on 08/17/2008

What's a failed American lawyer doing trying to run (ruin) a country??

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:04 PM on 08/17/2008
- JoeBlough I'm a Fan of JoeBlough 60 fans permalink
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W isn't a lawyer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 PM on 08/17/2008

You are very confused. Bush is not a lawyer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:37 PM on 08/17/2008

Looks like this crisis is only starting to unfold. As Steve Levine points out, with the pullout of the Russian troops, "a new, probably far more important stage of the Georgian crisis will begin." The guy knows what he's talking about: he covered previous wars in the Caucasus (Georgia, Chechnya, Azerbaijan), Tajikistan and the Soviet-Afghan war: http://oilandglory.com/2008/08/after-georgia-day-of-reckoning-for.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:54 PM on 08/17/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

Chechnya is the 800 pound gorilla in the room as far as all these people talking about South Ossetia and Abkhazia breaking away.

I'm not seeing an independent Chechnya warming a UN seat, last time I checked.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:58 PM on 08/17/2008

Russia is the (very) bad guy with respect to Chechnya, but the good guy with respect to South Ossetia. Abkasia is more complex because Georgians may have been in the majority there before they were ethnically cleansed.

We do not live in a world of blacks and whites, we live in a world of various shades of grey. The inability of Bush and McCain to understand this gets, or will get, the U.S. into all kinds of problems.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 08/17/2008
- TheImpaler I'm a Fan of TheImpaler 8 fans permalink
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Someone should put a muzzle on the Georgian president for the benefit of all involved.

Rebuilding Georgian military is not a good idea unless you want to escalate East/West tension, and that appears to be the goal of some. Georgian perception that their military was strong enough to mess with Russia is what caused this mess in the first place.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:53 PM on 08/17/2008
- Graywolf48 I'm a Fan of Graywolf48 78 fans permalink
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Saakashvili pumped a lot of Georgian cash into McCain and his surrogates and he now expects a return on his investment. So far he's got some tough talk from McCain and Bush and a handful of receipts. I think the guy is expecting a lot more for his money. I'm sure he's counting on military assistance from the US or NATO. Here's an interesting question. Given the Patriot Act and Bush's expanded war powers, can he unilaterally commit military forces to aid Georgia or start a broader war without the consent of Congress?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 PM on 08/17/2008
- TheImpaler I'm a Fan of TheImpaler 8 fans permalink
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I do not think Bush’s handlers want shooting war with Russia. I do think that there is a need to build up new enemy. The Islamo-Fascist threat is wearing off and it needs to be replaced with something more permanent; Russia would do just fine. The collapse of the Soviet Union was a big blow to the neo conservative theology. This recent, so called crisis, is every neo conservative’s wet dream.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 PM on 08/17/2008
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Саакашвили - больной человек! Он ест галстук!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqSIXIwGLhI&watch_response

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 PM on 08/17/2008
- gevan I'm a Fan of gevan 19 fans permalink

As President Monroes said, we should stay out of European affairs, right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 PM on 08/17/2008
- Durango I'm a Fan of Durango 144 fans permalink

I just learned that was the second half of the Monroe Doctrine.

Europeans would stay away from the America's.

And the USA would stay away from Europe. (or in this case: Asia)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:10 PM on 08/17/2008
- missjulz I'm a Fan of missjulz 119 fans permalink
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WRONG. Isolationist policies have always cost us much much more in the end.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:16 PM on 08/17/2008
- missjulz I'm a Fan of missjulz 119 fans permalink
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I meant to add: that's the problem we have right now. We've isolated ourselves and have no currency on the world stage because of US actions in the middle east. Russia banked on that too. We are weakened financially right now and diplomatically by Iraq. this is what Russia counted on.

Ossetians wants independence. They are also more favorable towards Russia than Georgia. Now I wonder how they will ever get that independence. thanks to Georgia, the US, and Russia. the little people are screwed. This is what our isolating policies of the last 8 years have also rendered unto them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:20 PM on 08/17/2008
- Tags I'm a Fan of Tags 13 fans permalink

How can I put his delicately? Didn't this start when Georgia attacked a place guarded by Russian troops?

It's not like Russia has a history of encouraging people to take something away from them by force, especially after they've gone to all the trouble of stealing it from them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:51 PM on 08/17/2008

Ossetians kept shelling villages south of the border in Georgia...­...Does Palestine and Israel come to mind? It should, because it's very similar.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 08/17/2008
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 599 fans permalink
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No, it's not. 90% of South Ossetians (all ethnic Russians) voted for their own independence. Unfortunately you can't break away from a pro-US country... Hypocrisy at its worst.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6140448.stm

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 PM on 08/17/2008

Georgia would have been justified in attacking the targets that were shelling. But an attack on South Ossetia's capital where Russian troops were stationed was an overreaction.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 08/17/2008
- Tags I'm a Fan of Tags 13 fans permalink

Similar but opposite. This is more like Palestinians attacking Jerusalem and expecting Israel to stand down. A weaker country doesn't attack a stronger country and expect no response.

I'm not saying it's right, only asking if it was smart.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:20 PM on 08/17/2008

The Russians are holding all the good cards here.

1. Facts on the ground. The Russian army is in Georgia and can, if it likes, push forward. The United States and Western Europe are not going to go to war with a country that has the means to totally destroy them.

2. Russia can counter any sanctions from the West by reducing or cutting off the flow of oil from Russia for a painful amount of time.

All our politicians can do is talk tough, but there is no real substance behind it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 PM on 08/17/2008

If Russia wanted to get "dirty" they could disable the oil and gas pipilines from the Caspian sea oilfields which run through Georgia. They dropped bombs between two of them to show they can bomb the pipelines if they wanted to.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:53 PM on 08/17/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

Yes, they're testing the waters and seeing that no one is going to stop them. And if no one looks to stop you, why would you stop?

Eastern Ukraine and the Crimea await.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 PM on 08/17/2008
- Durango I'm a Fan of Durango 144 fans permalink

Because George W. Bush/Cheney squandered American influence in the world on a badly conceived and terribly executed attempt to corner the worlds oil supply.

America's only hope is that we get an intelligent thoughtful president: ie Barak Obama.

Because another 4 years of the abject stupidity coming from the Bush Administration and their Republican allies in the House and Senate could very well be the end of our Republic.

Not to mention WW III.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:10 PM on 08/17/2008
- ejay579 I'm a Fan of ejay579 9 fans permalink
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'The Russian army is in Georgia and can, if it likes, push forward. The United States and Western Europe are not going to go to war with a country that has the means to totally destroy them.'
__________­__________­__________­__________­_______

Enough already of the hyperbole. As if Russia attempted to destroy Europe, it in turn would not be destroyed. This is an old 1950's concept - mutual mass destruction as some kind of deterrent. Guess what? It didn't work then and it doesn't work now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:12 PM on 08/17/2008
- elcojonu I'm a Fan of elcojonu 28 fans permalink

Of course it worked then, you and I are still here !
MAD works !

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:23 PM on 08/17/2008

"From my point of view -- and I am in contact with the French -- the Russians are perhaps already not honoring their word," U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Saturday.

So now the french are our buddies?

On a more somber note, this may well be this administrations october surprise a little early. The neo-con cabal is not so worried about the seeming fact that they are about to lose a presidency as well as control off the house and senate as they are about the potential domestic or international prosecution looming. They will not give up the helm easily. and a war with a formidable enemy with nuclear weapons might give them the edge, or be enough of an excuse to enact emergency powers and cancel the election. This is a clear provocation from Georgia invading Ossetia during the opening of the Olympics (US intelligence surely had wind of this, probably orchestrated it) to the insistence on NATO membership. This administration appears to be looking for a fight, and like a schoolyard bully working his way up the pecking order, they're going to find one...and get all our asses kicked.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 PM on 08/17/2008
- lyingtruth I'm a Fan of lyingtruth 16 fans permalink

President Mikhail G.W. Saakashvili

If Saakashvili is smarter than the people who voted for him, then those voters are as dumb as the ones who voted for George Bush!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 PM on 08/17/2008
- Rendon76 I'm a Fan of Rendon76 15 fans permalink
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I thought Putins' "term limit" was over? This guy is never goes away. He's taken over the country hasn't he?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:44 PM on 08/17/2008

Term-limited as President, he had himself appointed as Prime Minister.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 08/17/2008

It's true, but this is an unrelated issue. Whats the issue here is punishing Georgian aggression. And thanks for Russia two ethnic communities will have their freedom from Georgians. You can agree or disagree with it. But this is done deal. So relax and enjoy the ride.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:18 PM on 08/17/2008
- bayside I'm a Fan of bayside 38 fans permalink
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I believe we need to kick the whole kaboddle out. We have a dark cabel in charge determined to start WW3 again under false flags and our congressmen and women are on vacation. What do you think bush and cheney would do if it looks like obama would be president ..He would start WW3 before nov. We need to tell our congressmen, talk to people ..We have crazies in charge of US, we need and demand sane..War is not the answer. We get the war profiteers out and we will have peace...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 PM on 08/17/2008

At some level, Bush/Cheney/Rice and the neocons are at war with the world, where anything that increases American power, leverage, influence comes with its own embedded justification - and justified propagana to hide its intent. The world becomes a chessboard where Georgia is at best a pawn, but part of the game in play. All major world powers play some form of the game, but what is striking is the obsession with which it is played by this administration, and what they believe is justified by it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:55 PM on 08/17/2008
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 634 fans permalink
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Pootie has that Goth/Vampire look , very cool.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 PM on 08/17/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 332 fans permalink
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He was big into The Cure and Ministry while getting educated here in the US.
I bet he's all tats from the chest down.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 08/17/2008
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 634 fans permalink
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Some piercings too no doubt.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 PM on 08/17/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

Russia is really having a field day exposing Western hypocrisy on this issue.

In the Serbia-Kosovo conflict, the West sided with the breakaway state against the parent state.

In the Georgia-Os­setia/Abkh­asia conflict, the West is siding with the parent state.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 PM on 08/17/2008
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 599 fans permalink
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Don't forget the US government loved to see Georgia break away from the USSR...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 PM on 08/17/2008

....and the west keeps poking the bear on the nose......­..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 PM on 08/17/2008

Whats new? Do as I say, but god forbid as I do.

Know what's more insane? After all the bluster and swaggering, getting caught with you pants down, knotted firmly around your ankles. If it wasn't so dangerous, neocon foreign policy could pass as a kind of "black comedy".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 08/17/2008
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