Georgia President: We'll Never Give Up Breakaway Provinces

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CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA | August 17, 2008 11:56 PM EST | AP

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An aid worker looks on as residents wait for humanitarian aid distributed from a bus in Gori, northwest of the Georgian capital Tbilisi, Sunday, Aug. 17, 2008. Russian military authorities issued a flurry of conflicting reports Sunday about whether Russian troops had begun to pull out of South Ossetia, one of Georgia's two separatist provinces. (AP Photo/Darko Bandic)

GORI, Georgia — Russia's president promised to start withdrawing forces from positions in Georgia on Monday, but suggested they could stay in the breakaway region at the heart of the fighting that has reignited Cold War tensions.

Top American officials said Washington would rethink its relationship with Moscow after its military drive deep into its much smaller neighbor and called for a swift Russian withdrawal.

"I think there needs to be a strong, unified response to Russia to send the message that this kind of behavior, characteristic of the Soviet period, has no place in the 21st century," Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Sunday.

But neither Gates nor Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice would be specific about what punitive actions the U.S. or the international community might take.

Bolstered by Western support, Georgia's leader vowed never to abandon its claim to territory now firmly in the hands of Russia and its separatist allies, even though he has few means of asserting control. His pledge, echoed by Western insistence that Georgia must not be broken apart, portends further tension over separatist South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

In Gori, a strategic central city in the small former Soviet republic, there were signs of a looser Russian grip _ and scenes of desperation as Georgians crowded around aid vehicles and grasped for loaves of bread.

Georgia hit the Russia-backed separatist region of South Ossetia with a massive barrage on Aug. 7, and Russian troops rolled in, advancing far into the Caucasus Mountain nation and raising fears of a long-term occupation of a country at the center of a power struggle between a resurgent Russia and the West.

The troops would leave, a Russian lawmaker said, "sooner or later."

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"But how much time it will take, it depends, definitely, on how Georgians will continue to behave," said the lawmaker, Konstantin Kosachev, chairman of a Russian parliament foreign affairs committee.

Rice, who is flying to Europe on Monday to talk with NATO allies about what message the West should send to Russia, said Russia can't use "disproportionate force" against its neighbor and still be welcomed into the halls of international institutions.

"It's not going to happen that way," she said. "Russia will pay a price."

French President Nicolas Sarkozy warned Russia's president of "serious consequences" in Moscow's relations with the European Union if Russia does not comply with the cease-fire accord.

Later, Sarkozy said in an opinion article published on Le Figaro newspaper's Web site that if Russia did not "rapidly and totally" follow the pullout specified in the cease-fire, he would "have to call an extraordinary meeting of the Council of the European Union to decide what consequences to draw."

Medvedev had told Sarkozy that Russian troops would begin pulling back on Monday, headed toward South Ossetia. He stopped short of promising they would return to Russia.

The New York Times, citing anonymous U.S. officials who were familiar with intelligence reports, reported Sunday that the Russian military moved missile launchers into South Ossetia on Friday.

The U.S. officials told the Times that Russia deployed several SS-21 missile launchers to positions north of Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital. That would put the missiles within range of Georgia's capital, Tbilisi, the Times reported on its Web site.

The EU-backed cease-fire agreement calls for Georgian and Russian troops to withdraw to the positions they held before fighting broke out Aug. 7.

But Medvedev's silence on South Ossetia has fueled fears that Russia could annex the region, which _ like Abkhazia _ broke from Georgia government control in the 1990s and has declared independence. Getting Abkhazia alone would increase the length of Russia's Black Sea coast by more than 25 percent.

"Georgia will never give up a square kilometer of its territory," Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili told a news conference alongside Germany's Angela Merkel, the latest Western leader to visit Tbilisi and offer support for the country he has led on a pro-Western path, seeking to shake off a history of domination by Moscow.

"I expect a very fast, very prompt withdrawal of Russian troops out of Georgia," Merkel said in a courtyard at Saakashvili's official residence. She reiterated a Western promise that Georgia will eventually join NATO, but said she could not say when that would happen.

As Merkel spoke, Russian tanks and troops continued to control a wide swath of Georgia, including the main highway running through the country, the strategic central city of Gori, the western city of Senaki and the Senaki air base.

On Sunday evening, Russian armored personnel carriers and tanks carrying military hardware traveled away from Senaki on a road that leads to Zugdidi, a city just outside Abkhazia _ possibly pulling out, though their destination was unclear.

In the western town of Zugdidi, residents took to the streets earlier Sunday to protest the Russian presence in Georgia. Demonstrators including politicians and Orthodox priests carried religious icons and sprinkled holy water as they marched, some holding red-and-white Georgian flags of pictures of Saakashvili.

"We are waiting for more support from other countries because this is not a war between Russian and Georgia, it's a war between civilization and barbarism," said Eldar Kbernadze, a member of Georgia's parliament who was among the protesters.

Saakashvili alleged that Russian forces, far from withdrawing, had moved closer to the capital Saturday and vowed to defend Tbilisi if necessary. He also accused Russia of ethnic cleansing and said Georgia would not accept the future presence of Russian peacekeepers.

A large banner hanging Sunday in front of the Parliament building in central Tbilisi read: "No war, Russia go home."

On the outskirts of the city, hundreds of Georgian refugees tended to children, tried to wash near open taps and sought shelter in tents Sunday in a makeshift refugee camp.

Georgia's government minister for refugees, Koba Subeliani, said there were 140,000 displaced people in Tbilisi and the surrounding area.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon is considering sending over several high-ranking U.N. officials, including monitors and a top official with the U.N. refugee agency, according to a U.S. official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information.

Elsewhere, the Russian checkpoint at the entrance to Gori was less fortified than in previous days. In the city, where buildings were blackened by fire from fighting or bombing, there was a light presence of Russian troops and a few tanks.

Marc Baldan, a surgeon from the International Committee of the Red Cross, which delivered some medicine and food in Gori, said the city's hospital was functioning and that drugs for heart disease, hypertension and diabetes, unavailable during the conflict, had been delivered.

"Each day looks better," he said. "But we still do not have the full picture."

But as clusters of people gathered by aid vehicles in hopes of getting loaves of bread, others had even deeper worries.

"I do not know where my children are and you can imagine how I feel about it," one Georgian woman named Manana, who did not give her last name for fear of reprisals, told an AP television crew in Gori.

___

Associated Press writers David Nowak, Steve Gutterman and Jill Lawless in Moscow, and Michael Fischer and Matti Friedman in Tbilisi, Georgia, and Deb Riechmann in Crawford, Texas contributed to this report.

GORI, Georgia — Russia's president promised to start withdrawing forces from positions in Georgia on Monday, but suggested they could stay in the breakaway region at the heart of the fighting th...
GORI, Georgia — Russia's president promised to start withdrawing forces from positions in Georgia on Monday, but suggested they could stay in the breakaway region at the heart of the fighting th...
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- Vincero I'm a Fan of Vincero 4 fans permalink

bush and the loonies are playing with fire here.

Putin will never back down.

and silly Sarkozy cant do a thing about it so why warn Russia?

because this isa final attempt with bush in office to weakin Putin.

it will never happen and listen to the insane rantings of mccain, who if ever elected would gladly start a world war with Russia.

this is madness!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 08/17/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

Presumably the people championing South Ossetia and Abkhazia are also in favor of Quebec separating from Canada...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 AM on 08/17/2008
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 604 fans permalink
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Earth to clueless Jack, Quebec voted to stay with Canada. I'd have no problems if they wanted to become their own country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 AM on 08/17/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

And what was the margin?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 PM on 08/17/2008

The people of Quebec had a chance to determine their own futures The people of Quebec were allowed to vote democratically on this issue in a referendum in 1995 and they chose to remain with Canada.

Democracy settled that problem and we hardly hear about Quebec separatists any more.

How about the people of South Ossetia and Abkhazia? Shouldn't they be allowed to determine their own futures like the people of Quebec did?

Why are conservative so dead set against any kind of democratic solution here? I thought you people were the champions of democracy.

Does democracy only belong to the President of Georgia, or do the people of South Ossetia and Abkhazia get to use some of it too?

There should be an internationally supervised referendum allowing the citizens of these regions to determine their own futures democratically.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 PM on 08/17/2008

Since Quebec never ratified the Canadian constitution, they do have the legal right to seceede if they want to, but they would be making a serious mistake if they did.

It would be much wiser for Quebec to negotiate some additional guarantees with respect to language and cultural rights for Quebec from the national government and then finally ratify the Canadian constitution to gurarntee Canada's unity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:28 PM on 08/17/2008

FEAR! FEAR! Here we go one more election cycle - I wonder if the American voters, once again, will be lead into the voting booth based on their fears? You can put your money on the GOP's 'faith' that they can pull this out of their "hat of tricks" ONE more time.

My gut check, which usually isn't too far from the truth, is telling me that the Administration had a hand in what was started in Georgia for the sole rationale of being allowing the GOP pundits to put their infamous SPIN the John McCain is the only one with the "experience" to deal with the situation we now are facing with Russia - the ONLY ONE. I look at this just like the tape that surfaced from Bin Laden right before the 2004 election - FEAR! FEAR!!

My gut check is also telling me that this country had better truly FEAR ever having the temperment of a John McCain with his finger ready to push the BUTTON! Now this I reaaly FEAR>

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 AM on 08/17/2008

No confuse competence, fear, and prudence with recklessness. Reagan was able to bear down on Soviet Union and it collapsed. Weakness did not do it . A strong USA leader will mean the Russian Bear will be contained. Russia is a dissolving economy which only has Oil and Vodka to sell with decreasing population. Weakness to them will checkmate the novo czarist adventures of a new Putin Russia. That is why Ukraine and Poland are on our side. They know the Russians.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 PM on 08/17/2008
- geobushono I'm a Fan of geobushono 15 fans permalink

your comments are laughable. Russia accomodated Reagan by continuing their Afghan War, and bankrupting their Gov't.....­..........­.......We Americans on the other hand figured we'd go in and finish what the Russians couldn't finish, AND we'll rais 'em one additional­war....Ira­q.........­..still feeling clever there pancho?
Russia has more oil than god, and WHEN they decide to sell, I hope you have a lot of cangoods stored up, about 900 days should do it, because tghe West could resemble Leningrad in 1941....oh you might want to stock up on Chinese lead-paint toys for your kids.
Ukraine and Poland are an afternoon's diversion for Russia....­.....think back to shock and awe on Iraq....th­at'll help you get your head around it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:55 PM on 08/17/2008
- geobushono I'm a Fan of geobushono 15 fans permalink

I guess bush will go to the UN and bang his shoe on his desk......­...declari­ng, some People need to be colonialized by weenie Nations, not just by Superpower­s.......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:54 AM on 08/17/2008
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 604 fans permalink
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What about the self-determination of people? The very reason Georgia is now an independent country and no longer part of the Soviet Union? Riiiiight, it only applies to US-friendly regions, the Abkhazians and South Ossetians don't fit the profile, then screw them. Georgia gets to keep them.

The only thing the US is the undisputed world champion of is hypocrisy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:46 AM on 08/17/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

Sakashvili made a good point about the Sudetenland.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:53 AM on 08/17/2008
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 604 fans permalink
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So, why isn't Georgia still part of the Soviet Union?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:50 AM on 08/17/2008

Putin is not Hitler and it's intellectually creepy to start projecting Putin as a killer of five or six million Jews.

This is not Hitler. This is not WWII.

Some people are high on this idea but they need to come down from their trip right away.

It's pretty disrespectful to the people Hitler killed to project Hitler on Putin, who is pretty much the Russian version of a Republicrat.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 PM on 08/17/2008

The question to be asked is what of the people of Upstate NY want to leave New York and join Canada, and as well the people of Maine want to leave USA and join Canada, should the will of the people be respected?

Same issue as the Georgia situation

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:14 PM on 08/17/2008

I agree. These people are being treated like objects by Saakashvili. He's not talking about them like they're human beings who have the same rights to freedom and democracy that he enjoys.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 08/17/2008
- H2O I'm a Fan of H2O 3 fans permalink

The Founding Father knew these truths – And laid down a foundation of this simple truth – That all Men are created equal – A constitutional path - of a Nation that should never perish – That would give light unto the world – a Nation of Individuals - that always holds - truth and self responsibility – above the pride of self destruction.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 AM on 08/17/2008
- lyingtruth I'm a Fan of lyingtruth 16 fans permalink

The founding fathers had many unspoken exceptions about who was really created equal in their new country!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 AM on 08/17/2008
- SgtLucifer I'm a Fan of SgtLucifer 13 fans permalink

" That all Men are created equal "
---- ...."all Men !?" will that include black men, Mexican men, muslim men, all non-white men? Or is/was it just white Men. of course, women didn't count, since we all know they aren't Men. H2o, please tell me more...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 PM on 08/17/2008
- H2O I'm a Fan of H2O 3 fans permalink

Authoritarian past – Destruction of the American Constitution!

When we hear – People in This Repub Admin speaking of the past
- One needs to look no further back then the last 8 years.
- Massive spying on Americans – Massive economical war set against Americans – “ loss of jobs – bringing in cheap slave labor – Food prices out of reach for millions – massive home losses – Taxpayer bailouts only for the rich.
Millions of Americans put into poverty – reduced – to begging – from the Gov.

Pride comes before a fall:
The great transcended word of Heaven – and The simple warning to all Nations.
When a Nation – A society – A Group – A Individual – Becomes so Prideful – They can only hear and listen – To their own warped since of the world – and how life is for all – and in order to protect that pride – one becomes lost in their own lies of the world – The self of a Nation becomes one of – What I have done is okay and alright before our eyes – For it is only our eyes we serve.
All through-out history – lays the truth of these words – No Nation has ever lasted build upon the blood of others – All have fall before the truth of these simple words - Pride comes before a fall.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 AM on 08/17/2008
- Graywolf48 I'm a Fan of Graywolf48 78 fans permalink
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Just what in the hell are you babbling about? The quotation is a Hebrew proverb that warns that pride usually causes one to fail. I think you need to take a time out, try to gather your thoughts and then put them in understandable sentences and paragraphs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:29 PM on 08/17/2008
- jdenham I'm a Fan of jdenham 7 fans permalink

This is a prime example of why domestic politics has no place in foreign affairs. Senator McCain sending Liebermann and Graham undermines Bush and Rice dealing with the Russian. It appears Rove briefed President Saakashvili in July on how to play this politically, when he was there on vacation. Bush says we were caught off guard, but Rice had a secret meeting with President Saakashvili 2 days before Georgia attacked South Ossentia. Supposedly our Intelligence agency did not notice 20000 Russian troops amassing in South Ossentia. I wonder if Cheney forgot to tell Bush, because Bush seems oblivious to why Russia attacked.
Russia now has their foot on the pipeline that supplies oil to Europe and can cut that oil supply when ever they want. Russia is also tell the US and NATO not to put a missile systems on their borders. Whether the Bush Administration started this conflict for political purposes or stumbled into it with their incompotence, they have strenghten Russia and showed our weaknesses to the rest of the world.
Bush talks about throwing Russia out of the G8 , he better worry that they do not throw the US out of the G8. Russia can supply oil we wont be able if Russia decides to close that Pipeline. As for Georgia I feel bad for the people of Georgia, because President Saakashvili has listened to the wrong people and missjudged the Russians.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:38 AM on 08/17/2008
- shengirl I'm a Fan of shengirl 10 fans permalink

I agree, with a situation this dicey, free-lancing should be stopped and let the "official" envoys do their work. It seems evident that the Georgian president has already developed some seriously wrong ideas about American support, McC's "we are all Georgians" stuff, and he is still expecting us to intervene militarily. What other wrong ideas might he get from McC's two envoys? If O was doing this, the media would be inflamed with his "pretentions" at being "president­ial."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 PM on 08/17/2008
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Start your stop watches and see how long it takes for a Bush/Cheney oil crony to slip into Georgia and talk about "developing" their oil reserves.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 AM on 08/17/2008

Georgia doesn't have oil. The Georgian pipeline in question brings oil from the Caspian, which Georgia does not border.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 PM on 08/17/2008
- Graywolf48 I'm a Fan of Graywolf48 78 fans permalink
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There are no oil or gas reserves to be developed in Georgia. What oil is in Georgia, or at least passes through Georgia, is crude oil in a large pipeline that transports oil from the Caspian Sea to Turkish ports that then ship the oil to Europe and the US. This pipeline accounts for about 1% of the West's oil supply. The Russian's opposed the construction of this pipeline because is diminishes Russia's influence in the Caucuses and competes with Russian oil revenue. So although Georgia itself has no oil of its own, it does in a sense provide a portion of oil to Europe and the West. Thus America's interest in that region.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 PM on 08/17/2008
- jonjon66 I'm a Fan of jonjon66 8 fans permalink
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Israel is suspiciously absent of Russian criticism, why? because they've done the same thing to Lebanon and the Palestinian territories, where's the Bush admistrations outrage when Israel violated Lebanons' "territorial integrity"?

All with Bush & the U.S. blessings.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 AM on 08/17/2008
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Why can't our oil companies build their pipelines where they want to?

Aren't we the sole super power with God on it's side? The Taliban &

the commies just need to stop being so damn uppity and arrogant!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 AM on 08/17/2008
- randyjet I'm a Fan of randyjet 26 fans permalink

The more I listen to the President of Georgia, the more I am in sympathy with Russia. The guy is an outright liar and ideologue who wants to use US power for his own ends. He started the war by attacking and blowing up with artillery the capital of Ossetia at night when he could be sure of killing the most civilians. CNN reported that virtually every building in the capital was damaged which testifies to the ferocity of the attack and that Georgian troops occupied the city.

The fact is that Stalin was the one who drew the boundaries for Georgia in their favor. The US violated the Helsinki Treaty, the UN Charter, and international law in attacking Serbia and forcibly ethnically cleansing Kosovo of over 200,000 Serbs and Gypsies in concert with the terrorist KLA. We further broke our word that Kosovo would remain part of Serbia and recognized its independence. Russia is simply following the lead of NATO in what they are doing. If NATO can do it, then Russia can as well.

It is also absurd to state that Russia is taking over all of Georgia and is an outright lie as well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 AM on 08/17/2008

What would Jesus do?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 AM on 08/17/2008
- Nicolaus I'm a Fan of Nicolaus 9 fans permalink

Personally I would run for cover. No one can judge what the oil men and the arms manufacturers would lead our wise administration to do in the Caucuses.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 AM on 08/17/2008
- swooge I'm a Fan of swooge 13 fans permalink
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You mean you don't talk to him on a regular basis?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:41 AM on 08/17/2008
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I believe it comes under "Thou Shalt Not Kill" or "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbor's Goods and/or Wives" and a few others...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 AM on 08/17/2008
- 111 I'm a Fan of 111 34 fans permalink

Nothing

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:54 AM on 08/17/2008
- Nicolaus I'm a Fan of Nicolaus 9 fans permalink

The European Organization Security and Cooperation which faulted the election of the Georgian adventurer:

"The fate of South Ossetia must be decided by the people of South Ossetia. They live in very difficult conditions and the context of what has happened is quite complex," Marc Perrin de Brichambaut, secretary general of the Organization for Security and Cooperation Europe (OSCE), said at a news conference in the capital of North Ossetia."

This, Senator McCain should understand is the way the people of this planet want to resolve conflicts "...in the 21st Century." But then, I always felt the Senator really belongs to eras gone by, and not a moment too soon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 AM on 08/17/2008
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