Georgia President: We'll Never Give Up Breakaway Provinces

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CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA | August 17, 2008 11:56 PM EST | AP

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An aid worker looks on as residents wait for humanitarian aid distributed from a bus in Gori, northwest of the Georgian capital Tbilisi, Sunday, Aug. 17, 2008. Russian military authorities issued a flurry of conflicting reports Sunday about whether Russian troops had begun to pull out of South Ossetia, one of Georgia's two separatist provinces. (AP Photo/Darko Bandic)

GORI, Georgia — Russia's president promised to start withdrawing forces from positions in Georgia on Monday, but suggested they could stay in the breakaway region at the heart of the fighting that has reignited Cold War tensions.

Top American officials said Washington would rethink its relationship with Moscow after its military drive deep into its much smaller neighbor and called for a swift Russian withdrawal.

"I think there needs to be a strong, unified response to Russia to send the message that this kind of behavior, characteristic of the Soviet period, has no place in the 21st century," Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Sunday.

But neither Gates nor Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice would be specific about what punitive actions the U.S. or the international community might take.

Bolstered by Western support, Georgia's leader vowed never to abandon its claim to territory now firmly in the hands of Russia and its separatist allies, even though he has few means of asserting control. His pledge, echoed by Western insistence that Georgia must not be broken apart, portends further tension over separatist South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

In Gori, a strategic central city in the small former Soviet republic, there were signs of a looser Russian grip _ and scenes of desperation as Georgians crowded around aid vehicles and grasped for loaves of bread.

Georgia hit the Russia-backed separatist region of South Ossetia with a massive barrage on Aug. 7, and Russian troops rolled in, advancing far into the Caucasus Mountain nation and raising fears of a long-term occupation of a country at the center of a power struggle between a resurgent Russia and the West.

The troops would leave, a Russian lawmaker said, "sooner or later."

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"But how much time it will take, it depends, definitely, on how Georgians will continue to behave," said the lawmaker, Konstantin Kosachev, chairman of a Russian parliament foreign affairs committee.

Rice, who is flying to Europe on Monday to talk with NATO allies about what message the West should send to Russia, said Russia can't use "disproportionate force" against its neighbor and still be welcomed into the halls of international institutions.

"It's not going to happen that way," she said. "Russia will pay a price."

French President Nicolas Sarkozy warned Russia's president of "serious consequences" in Moscow's relations with the European Union if Russia does not comply with the cease-fire accord.

Later, Sarkozy said in an opinion article published on Le Figaro newspaper's Web site that if Russia did not "rapidly and totally" follow the pullout specified in the cease-fire, he would "have to call an extraordinary meeting of the Council of the European Union to decide what consequences to draw."

Medvedev had told Sarkozy that Russian troops would begin pulling back on Monday, headed toward South Ossetia. He stopped short of promising they would return to Russia.

The New York Times, citing anonymous U.S. officials who were familiar with intelligence reports, reported Sunday that the Russian military moved missile launchers into South Ossetia on Friday.

The U.S. officials told the Times that Russia deployed several SS-21 missile launchers to positions north of Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital. That would put the missiles within range of Georgia's capital, Tbilisi, the Times reported on its Web site.

The EU-backed cease-fire agreement calls for Georgian and Russian troops to withdraw to the positions they held before fighting broke out Aug. 7.

But Medvedev's silence on South Ossetia has fueled fears that Russia could annex the region, which _ like Abkhazia _ broke from Georgia government control in the 1990s and has declared independence. Getting Abkhazia alone would increase the length of Russia's Black Sea coast by more than 25 percent.

"Georgia will never give up a square kilometer of its territory," Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili told a news conference alongside Germany's Angela Merkel, the latest Western leader to visit Tbilisi and offer support for the country he has led on a pro-Western path, seeking to shake off a history of domination by Moscow.

"I expect a very fast, very prompt withdrawal of Russian troops out of Georgia," Merkel said in a courtyard at Saakashvili's official residence. She reiterated a Western promise that Georgia will eventually join NATO, but said she could not say when that would happen.

As Merkel spoke, Russian tanks and troops continued to control a wide swath of Georgia, including the main highway running through the country, the strategic central city of Gori, the western city of Senaki and the Senaki air base.

On Sunday evening, Russian armored personnel carriers and tanks carrying military hardware traveled away from Senaki on a road that leads to Zugdidi, a city just outside Abkhazia _ possibly pulling out, though their destination was unclear.

In the western town of Zugdidi, residents took to the streets earlier Sunday to protest the Russian presence in Georgia. Demonstrators including politicians and Orthodox priests carried religious icons and sprinkled holy water as they marched, some holding red-and-white Georgian flags of pictures of Saakashvili.

"We are waiting for more support from other countries because this is not a war between Russian and Georgia, it's a war between civilization and barbarism," said Eldar Kbernadze, a member of Georgia's parliament who was among the protesters.

Saakashvili alleged that Russian forces, far from withdrawing, had moved closer to the capital Saturday and vowed to defend Tbilisi if necessary. He also accused Russia of ethnic cleansing and said Georgia would not accept the future presence of Russian peacekeepers.

A large banner hanging Sunday in front of the Parliament building in central Tbilisi read: "No war, Russia go home."

On the outskirts of the city, hundreds of Georgian refugees tended to children, tried to wash near open taps and sought shelter in tents Sunday in a makeshift refugee camp.

Georgia's government minister for refugees, Koba Subeliani, said there were 140,000 displaced people in Tbilisi and the surrounding area.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon is considering sending over several high-ranking U.N. officials, including monitors and a top official with the U.N. refugee agency, according to a U.S. official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information.

Elsewhere, the Russian checkpoint at the entrance to Gori was less fortified than in previous days. In the city, where buildings were blackened by fire from fighting or bombing, there was a light presence of Russian troops and a few tanks.

Marc Baldan, a surgeon from the International Committee of the Red Cross, which delivered some medicine and food in Gori, said the city's hospital was functioning and that drugs for heart disease, hypertension and diabetes, unavailable during the conflict, had been delivered.

"Each day looks better," he said. "But we still do not have the full picture."

But as clusters of people gathered by aid vehicles in hopes of getting loaves of bread, others had even deeper worries.

"I do not know where my children are and you can imagine how I feel about it," one Georgian woman named Manana, who did not give her last name for fear of reprisals, told an AP television crew in Gori.

___

Associated Press writers David Nowak, Steve Gutterman and Jill Lawless in Moscow, and Michael Fischer and Matti Friedman in Tbilisi, Georgia, and Deb Riechmann in Crawford, Texas contributed to this report.

GORI, Georgia — Russia's president promised to start withdrawing forces from positions in Georgia on Monday, but suggested they could stay in the breakaway region at the heart of the fighting th...
GORI, Georgia — Russia's president promised to start withdrawing forces from positions in Georgia on Monday, but suggested they could stay in the breakaway region at the heart of the fighting th...
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I don't like the president of Georgia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:20 AM on 08/17/2008
- Lion24 I'm a Fan of Lion24 139 fans permalink
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Do you think P u t i n is some sort of day at the beach??

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 AM on 08/17/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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What is wrong with you? If one doesn't like the president of Georgia, then that means they are fans of Putin?

What type of simplistic nonsensical world do you live in?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 AM on 08/17/2008
- who38 I'm a Fan of who38 68 fans permalink

No, but he is more rational so he exerts more self control.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 AM on 08/17/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

Democratically elected leaders are the absolute worst!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 PM on 08/17/2008

What about democratic movements to secede from Georgia?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:30 PM on 08/17/2008
- FebM I'm a Fan of FebM 43 fans permalink

Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain
Phillip Butler (Former fellow POW)

http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:17 AM on 08/17/2008
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By what authority does President Bush have to say Russia can't "lay claim" South Ossetia and Abkhazia? He's not the king of the world, no matter what the sycophants around him are telling him. Georgia was bound under its act of secession from the Soviet Union to hold referendums in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Georgia has refused to honor the referendums from these regions to become part of the Russian Federation. South Ossetia is predominately Eastern Orthodox Christian and Georgia is now 60% Muslim. If we press for the "Balkanization" of Serbia and the former Yugoslavia, then what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. The truth is that this criminal administration supported the secession of Kosovo because it was politically expedient as a means of some inane attempt to make trouble for Serbia and their support of the Russian Federation. The entire world knows that the U.S. helped Georgia attack S. Ossetia (stay tuned for the war crimes that Russia will try to prosecute at the I.C.C.). The attempt to take South Ossetia for a larger "pipeline" buffer has failed. When resolving conflict comes down to violence it is absolutely laughable to hear the party that loses try to dictate terms like the U.S. and Georgia are trying to do by constant spin and lies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:17 AM on 08/17/2008
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Georgia Profile.

Religions:

Georgian Orthodox 65%, Muslim 11%, Russian Orthodox 10%, Armenian Apostolic 8%, unknown 6%

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    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 08/17/2008
- FebM I'm a Fan of FebM 43 fans permalink

Why I will not vote for McCain (Former POW)
http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:15 AM on 08/17/2008

The best analysis of the situation in Georgia: http://buchanan.org/blog/2008/08/pjb-blowback-from-bear-baiting/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:13 AM on 08/17/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 335 fans permalink
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Interesting quote from Pat Buchanan:
"People who start wars don’t get to decide how and when they end."

He might want to pass that pearl of wisdom on to his president.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 AM on 08/17/2008
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Pat Buchanan is a rather very smart man when there are no elections.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 AM on 08/17/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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I thought he made an excellent point here:

"When the Soviet Union broke into 15 nations, we celebrated. When Slovenia, Croatia, Macedonia, Bosnia, Montenegro and Kosovo broke from Serbia, we rejoiced. Why, then, the indignation when two provinces, whose peoples are ethnically separate from Georgians and who fought for their independence, should succeed in breaking away?"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 AM on 08/17/2008
- Nobrun I'm a Fan of Nobrun 7 fans permalink

Pat Buchanan? Wow! Hard to believe he wrote this. I'll start paying attention.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 AM on 08/17/2008
- Charmed I'm a Fan of Charmed 31 fans permalink

Pat Buchanan wrote that, just wow....I can't believe he use the line "chicken coming home to roost"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:53 AM on 08/17/2008
- SShaw490 I'm a Fan of SShaw490 38 fans permalink

Great find. Pat Buchanan is becoming a leading voice in an evolving split in the Republican party between conservatives and neoconservatives. I love Buchanan's summary of the McCain campaign message, "The jobs are never coming back, the illegals are never going home, but we'll have lots more wars."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 AM on 08/17/2008

Pat Buchanan has been a paleoconservative for decades, the rift between paleoconservatives and the more vocal neoconservatives (whose doctrine won out) is not recent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:28 PM on 08/17/2008
- unscum I'm a Fan of unscum 9 fans permalink

It's a great article. But I would argue America is in a long term decline, economically, geopolitically. NATO, as you can see in Afghanistan is now irrelevant. Americans are aggressive and they won't give away their superpower status easily. I'll turn the article on it's head, the expansion of NATO into Russia's "near-abroad" and the abrogating of the AMB treaty is an act of desperation. A desperate means to counter the fact that over the years Russia has been far more successful at cementing it's energy security with western Europe (the economies that matter) than the United States. The integrations of Russia and Europe is happening on many different levels, whether the Americans like it or not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 PM on 08/17/2008
- Agnim I'm a Fan of Agnim 6 fans permalink

Europe at war?
So what's new? lol

The only thing surprising is that so many months have passed since the last one in the Balkans. lol

Europe is such a powder keg; it does not take much to ignite these supposed 'civilized people' on the path to self-annihilation on a regular basis. lol

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 AM on 08/17/2008
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Yes we Americans are very "civilized" we've been in a state of war since the country was discovered, the only difference between us and the rest of the world is that we have youth on our side.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 AM on 08/17/2008
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 611 fans permalink
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FYI, Georgia is barely Europe...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:51 AM on 08/17/2008
- donaldw6 I'm a Fan of donaldw6 357 fans permalink
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War among the "uncivilized" is so amusing. lol

Sheesh!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:19 PM on 08/17/2008
- LTCKal I'm a Fan of LTCKal 8 fans permalink
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Let's talk about the REAL reason for all of this. There is only one road from Russia to Georgia, the Georgian Military Highway, and it goes right through both Ossetias. It is the main route for considerable and dangerous smuggling. Let's say you want to smuggle one of Russia's many unaccounted-for nuclear devices out of Russia. There is no border between North Ossetia and Russia, so that's easy. Then, the next border is Georgia/Russia, or more correctly North and South Ossetia. If the border is closed, certainly the local folks know how to go around it on their own terrain. Once in South Ossetia, there is no longer a border with Georgia, so the device ends up in Georgia. How secure is Georgia protecting its borders out to Azerbaidjan, Armenia, or Turkey? And who does this little smuggling escapade threaten first? Russia, of course, the Chechens would love to get a hold of it, or to sell it to Al-Quaida. Military moves are done for more than glory -- there's a real reason, pity no one is talking about why the Russians did what they did.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:11 AM on 08/17/2008
- who38 I'm a Fan of who38 68 fans permalink

Hey, there are 1000 "Israeli consultants" in Georgia. With their acclaimed prowess at intelligence, don't you think that they can stop any smuggling that is going on?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 AM on 08/17/2008
- 111 I'm a Fan of 111 34 fans permalink

It is probably about oil and not smuggling nuclear war heads out of Russia. People are talking about that pipeline that Europe is trying to control as the reason that Georgia is being considered for membership in NATO and why the Georgian president is hell bent on keeping South Ossetia under his control.

The president of Georgia talks about democracy and self determination but he wants to totally disregard these two territories votes for independence from Georgia.

These borders have been moving for thousands of years and Russia has been involved for a few hundred years. NATO countries should stay out of this and stop telling other countries what to do, especially in view of the crimes the US has committed without repercussion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 PM on 08/17/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 335 fans permalink
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"We'll never give up...blah, blah, blah..."

LOL!
Like he has a choice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:11 AM on 08/17/2008
- who38 I'm a Fan of who38 68 fans permalink

Is he talking about Iraq?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 AM on 08/17/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 335 fans permalink
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He's just emulating his biggest supporter and fellow failure.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:42 AM on 08/17/2008
- JoJoKewl I'm a Fan of JoJoKewl 32 fans permalink

Of course it's all about oil. I've been saying that about Iraq for five years now. At a fundamental level EVERYTHING is about energy and the eneergy right now is OIL.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 AM on 08/17/2008
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take a number and stand in line.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 AM on 08/17/2008
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Even a good stir-fry is all about the oil.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 AM on 08/17/2008
- who38 I'm a Fan of who38 68 fans permalink

LOL.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 AM on 08/17/2008
- biwee I'm a Fan of biwee 13 fans permalink

If you dig deep enough, you will find Richard Perle at the bottom of the
oil intrigue in Georgia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 AM on 08/17/2008
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don't you dare take any of the red jelly beans.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 AM on 08/17/2008
- who38 I'm a Fan of who38 68 fans permalink

What a surprise. Is Wolfie on the payroll too?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 AM on 08/17/2008
- Gordon I'm a Fan of Gordon 29 fans permalink

got a link?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 AM on 08/17/2008
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Hey people there is another country that claims ownership of another country.
Iraq claims ownership of Kuwait but when Saddam tried to take it guess who protested?
Just because a country claims to be democratic doesn't make them right you know.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 AM on 08/17/2008

The way the west likes to stick it to Russia is it any wonder miscreants like Putin come to power?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 AM on 08/17/2008

No one is innocent.
Georgia went in unnecessarily hard and violently, Russia has been waiting for a chance to teach Georgia a lesson.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 AM on 08/17/2008
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Are you saying Russia did a version of "Shock and Awe" or did the Russians take a page from the "overwhelming force" doctrine of Secretary of State Colin (Gen.) Powell

What goes around comes around as they say.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 AM on 08/17/2008

NO AMERICAN BLOOD FOR GEORGIA!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 AM on 08/17/2008
- Nobrun I'm a Fan of Nobrun 7 fans permalink

America will never spill blood for Georgia. But America will spill blood in Georgia for OIL.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:15 AM on 08/17/2008
- biwee I'm a Fan of biwee 13 fans permalink

No American blood for Israel.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 AM on 08/17/2008
- Nicolaus I'm a Fan of Nicolaus 9 fans permalink

Quite a demand!

Does this mean: American blood for the North-South oil pipeline designed for Afghanistan?
American blood for the Iraqi oil?

or is there some discrimination going on here?...

What is next? Go on: ban snatching handbags from women wearing glasses? One man's oil is another man's spoils... Right? Ask President Bush, Vice President Cheney, James Baker, VI, (or is it the VII? the IX? Whatever!) and any magnate who silently manned the helm in the US for the last 8 odd years

NC

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 AM on 08/17/2008

Did anyone catch Senator Obama echoing the the Bush "it's-all-­Russia's-f­ault" line the other day?

"One thing that's different is oceans no longer keep us safe."
--George Bush September 23, 2002

"...we know that the American people cannot be protected by oceans..."
--Barack Obama, July 15, 2008

There's an echo in here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:01 AM on 08/17/2008

Funny thing about truisms.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 AM on 08/17/2008
- sb250guy I'm a Fan of sb250guy 28 fans permalink
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When Bush says it, it echos hollow.

When Obama says it, it reminds me of why I like him. The important point to remember is that the brains that created the words are very different. Obviously, oceans don't physically protect nations the way they used to. Any idiot understands that.

Bush used that language to foment fear and a reactionary / nationonalistic response.

Obama's use of that language points to the fact that no nation is an island anymore. We live here on Earth together. We Americans value our constitution and our heritage but we must lead by example, not power.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 AM on 08/17/2008

Just how big of a spanking does Mr. Saakashvili want anyway?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 AM on 08/17/2008
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