US, allies contemplating action against Russia

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DEB RIECHMANN | August 17, 2008 11:59 PM EST | AP

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Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice returns to her motorcade after appearing on the Sunday morning television talk shows to discuss the crisis in Georgia, Sunday, Aug. 17, 2008, in Crawford, Texas. President Bush warned Russia on Saturday against trying to pry loose two separatist regions in Georgia and said Moscow must end military operations in the West-leaning democracy that once was part of the Soviet empire. (AP Photo/J. Scott Applewhite)

CRAWFORD, Texas — The United States on Sunday accused Russia of stalling its military pullback in Georgia, but the Bush administration is not rushing to repudiate Moscow for its actions.

The White House is struggling to figure out the best way to penalize Russia. It doesn't want to deeply damage existing cooperation on many fronts or discourage Moscow from further integrating itself into global economic and political institutions. At the same time, U.S. officials say Russia can't be allowed to get away with invading its neighbor.

Fighting broke out after Georgia launched a massive barrage Aug. 7 to try to take control of the separatist province of South Ossetia, which is heavily influenced by Russia. The Russian army quickly overwhelmed Georgia's forces, then drove deep into the country, bombed Georgian ports and military installations and tied up an east-west highway through the nation.

The New York Times, citing anonymous U.S. officials who were familiar with intelligence reports, reported Sunday that the Russian military moved missile launchers into South Ossetia on Friday.

The U.S. officials told the Times that Russia deployed several SS-21 missile launchers to positions north of Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital. That would put the missiles within range of Georgia's capital, Tbilisi, the Times reported on its Web site.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who briefed President Bush on the fast-changing crisis over the weekend at his Texas ranch, said, "There's no doubt there will be further consequences" to Russia.

She returned to Washington on Sunday and is flying to Brussels, Belgium, on Monday to talk with NATO allies about what message the West should send to Russia.

Rice is then flying to Warsaw, Poland, where she will sign a formal agreement with Poland for the establishment of a missile interceptor site there. Moscow has protested the U.S. plans for such a base so close to its borders.

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Russia can't use "disproportionate force" against Georgia and still be welcomed into the halls of international institutions, Rice said.

"It's not going to happen that way," she said. "Russia will pay a price."

But neither Rice nor Defense Secretary Robert Gates would be specific about what punitive actions the U.S. or the international community might take.

"We're going to take our time and assess what further consequences there should be to the relationship," Rice said.

The United States wants to take a tough stance against Russia, but there is much at stake.

"The facts are that the United States has to work with Russia on Iran, on nuclear problems of proliferation, on a whole raft of trade issues at a time in which the United States has a huge domestic deficit," said Sen. Richard Lugar, the senior Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

And holding open the prospect of taking steps against Russia gives the United States some leverage in pushing Russia to withdraw from Georgia. But nothing is expected to happen in a hurry, and the United States doesn't want to turn the conflict into a fight between the former Cold War rivals.

"There is no need to rush into everything," Gates said. "We don't want to do it unilaterally.

"I think there needs to be a strong, unified response to Russia to send the message that this kind of behavior, characteristic of the Soviet period, has no place in the 21st century," he said.

Asked whether Russia should be kicked out of the Group of Eight major industrialized states, or whether it should be kept from joining the World Trade Organization, Gates replied vaguely, saying the U.S. and its allies can choose from a broad menu of possible punitive steps. Russia already is feeling repercussions, he said.

"The whole world is looking at Russia through a different set of lenses than just a week and a half or two weeks ago, so there are already consequences," Gates said. "I think they may not appreciate the magnitude of those consequences yet. The longer they take to get out and to observe the cease-fire that's been declared and the arrangements that have been worked out, I think the greater those consequences will be."

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said Russian troops will begin leaving Monday, but made no mention of leaving the separatist province at the heart of the conflict between the countries.

The Bush administration is hopeful yet skeptical that Russia will honor its pledge to withdraw troops quickly from Georgia under terms of a cease-fire it signed Saturday.

"My own view is that the Russians will probably stall and perhaps take more time than anybody would like," Gates said. "I think we just need to keep the pressure and ensure that they abide by the agreement that they've signed and do so in a timely way."

The Russians say they're going to take their time in leaving the South Carolina-sized democracy that declared its independence in 1991.

Konstantin Kosachev, chairman of the Russian parliament's foreign affairs committee, said Russian forces will be out of Georgia "sooner or later," but how much time it takes depends on how Georgia behaves.

Echoing Bush's call to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq depending on conditions on the ground, Kosachev said: "If I would ask you ... `How fast the American forces can leave Iraq?' ... the answer would be, as soon as we have guarantees for peace and security there.

"The same answer would be toward this situation: as soon as we are assured that Georgians will not continue to use military force against South Ossetians and against Abkhazians" _ residents of two separatist areas of Georgia now overrun with Russian troops and abandoned by Georgian soldiers.

Rice and Gates pressed the administration's case during appearances on five Sunday talks shows _ Rice on "Fox News Sunday," CBS' "Face the Nation" and NBC's "Meet the Press," and Gates on ABC's "This Week" and "Late Edition" on CNN. Kosachev and Lugar also appeared on CNN.

CRAWFORD, Texas — The United States on Sunday accused Russia of stalling its military pullback in Georgia, but the Bush administration is not rushing to repudiate Moscow for its actions. The Wh...
CRAWFORD, Texas — The United States on Sunday accused Russia of stalling its military pullback in Georgia, but the Bush administration is not rushing to repudiate Moscow for its actions. The Wh...
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BOMB BOMB BOMB...BOMB BOMB uh ...Russia. Dang, that doesn't sound right. Somebody help a brother with this first verse. CFF

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:54 PM on 08/17/2008
- Mr Grey I'm a Fan of Mr Grey 5 fans permalink

What a large steaming pile! We have the blind leading the blind and they are getting ready to fall into that pit. You don't piss on Russia. Napoleon did it, failed. Hitler did it, failed. Russia is a BIG country. It is led by cold, hard people. For the Russian leadership, whether Tsarist, Communist, Stalinist or Putinist, people mean little to the overall goals of Russian power. Except as fodder for the mill. It is so sad because the people of Russia are amazing in so many ways.

Bush may have looked into Putin's soul, but he did not see anything Putin didn't want him to see. In that battle of wits, Dubya was witless. It may look like Russia's army is in command of the situation. They are merely one tool among many. In the battles of modern civilizations, it is not arms or armies that control the situation anymore. Russia lost in Afghanistan because it was a economic and political debacle. We are losing the so called war on terror for the same reason. Russia learned a hard lesson. Thing have changed.

It is diplomatic and economic power that gets things done. Today you no longer carry a big stick, you play it smart, think 10 moves ahead and carry a big fat wallet. Our current leadership does not use diplomacy, does not play it smart and has squandered our economy. As such we will have little to say one way or the other about this situation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 PM on 08/17/2008
- who38 I'm a Fan of who38 63 fans permalink

"people mean little to the overall goals of Russian power" Can't the same be said of the US? 4000+ Americans killed in Iraq (who knows how many Iraqis have died). All so that we could export democracy? Sure. Rumsfeld should be indicted by the World Court, followed by Cheney and Bush.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 AM on 08/18/2008
- Mr Grey I'm a Fan of Mr Grey 5 fans permalink

We are not even close yet. No one know how many millions of Russians died during the Stalin's Great Purge and the time of Collectivization.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 PM on 08/18/2008

"Bush may have looked into Putin's soul, but he did not see anything Putin didn't want him to see."

Was there ever any doubt? Putin is ex-KGB. Bush can barely speak his native tongue without tripping over it.

So much for electing a "guy you can have a beer with."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 AM on 08/18/2008
- bluesnot I'm a Fan of bluesnot 13 fans permalink

Yes, Russia, you must pay a price.

How does $2.99 sound? Yes, we accept rubles or euros. Thanks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 PM on 08/17/2008
- Fight4USA8 I'm a Fan of Fight4USA8 10 fans permalink

There is nothing worse than a woman bully, then again Rice is the mouth piece of George Bush the #1 "Rambo & Bully of the World".

It seems to me the only logical person in the Bush Admin. is Defense Secretary Gates, who sounds thoughtful and logical in this crisis.

...Abkhazia and South Ossetia people don't recognize Georgia, they even have Russian passports and Russian peacekeepers have been there since 1993.

... President Saakashvili of Georgia is the one who sent his tanks first, so Russian had to send it's tanks to protect the people from Saakashvili aggression. But the logical Bush is saying we have to punish Russia.

What sort of response can be expected from Russia if the USA goes ahead with its missile defense system?

Russia's response:

First the [anti-ballistic missile] ABM systems are not for intercepting missiles, but for preserving Europe in the sphere of USA external defense policy. It's against independent Europe.

Secondly, it is necessary to keep explaining to the USA that UNILATERAL ACTIONS don't lead to greater security of the USA.

Thirdly, if neither the first nor the second helps, and the threats increase, we created means that would overcome ABM systems, and they are already being created and we test-fired such missiles.

It's beyond me why Congress will let Bush (Rambo), who will be out of office in less than 4 months will let him sign the missile defense system deal with Poland?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 PM on 08/17/2008

"Russia will pay a price"

Ahahahahah­ahahahahah­aha *wipes tears* Good one.

We don't have a leg to stand on, and thanks to this episode in Georgia, the world is now fully aware of it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 PM on 08/17/2008
- Totto I'm a Fan of Totto 40 fans permalink

I M P O T E N T

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 PM on 08/17/2008
- sassafra I'm a Fan of sassafra 19 fans permalink
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the allies don't have to do squat. the russians have activated their own 50 year domestic ira -like terrorist network with this blunder...the Georgians .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 PM on 08/17/2008

Right, and give Russia the excuse they would looove to get so they can march into and totally take over Georgia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 PM on 08/17/2008
- Totto I'm a Fan of Totto 40 fans permalink

Well, the totalitarian Soviet Union held together for awhile.
And just who are the "allies"? We don't have any, anymore.
They don't trust our lying leaders.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 AM on 08/18/2008

Sensible Georgians are more likely to attack Saakashvili than Russia.

Most people there are rather more realistic about Ossetia and Abkhazia.

There were no massive civilian casualties in Georgia from Russians (unlike in Ossetia from Georgia).

The guy pictured in this BBC footage is going to need to use his US citizenship and passport sooner rather than later:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/08/saavashvili-eat.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 AM on 08/18/2008
- darthdarcy I'm a Fan of darthdarcy 48 fans permalink
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I know the perfect way to punish Russia...!

Reenact strict regulations on the Commodities and Futures market as well as ICE and the London traders and also Dubai...

Bring the price of Oil and Gas down to where it belongs at $55-58 per barrel, this would strengthen our dollar and economy and end the huge windfalls of billions that Russia has been receiving due to the criminal manipulation of these markets, by those such as Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley among others...!

McCain's economic Guru Phil Gramm had a lot to do with enriching Russia so it could return to this adventurous aggressive nature....McCain and Gramm did a lot to help Russia due to the Enron Loophole..also the Goldman Sachs Loophole....

So end the market manipulation to hurt Russia and help America..?

I wish Barack Obama would finally admit to this being the situation and give Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley and UBS back their money...!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 PM on 08/17/2008

Sounds good, but to accomplish anything resembling that, we first need to dislodge the corporate control of our government.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 AM on 08/18/2008
- hmmmmmer I'm a Fan of hmmmmmer 27 fans permalink

Someone please explain to me how we missed this? Wasn't there some danger in trying to take Georgia into NATO being so close to Russia and given the past history? Didn't we know Putin was extremely angry over that move, along with what has been going on with the old Soviet block?

Has this administration done anything other than worry about Iraq?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:20 PM on 08/17/2008
- Totto I'm a Fan of Totto 40 fans permalink

...but George looked into Pootie's soul, and saw that it was "goood"!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 PM on 08/17/2008

"Someone please explain to me how we missed this?"

um, pretty much the same way we missed this one....

Presidential Daily Briefing August 6, 2001- "Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in US"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 PM on 08/17/2008
- wotcanisay I'm a Fan of wotcanisay 5 fans permalink

Thanks to George W Bush, America has been reduced to impotence.

The economy is bankrupted. The banking system is bankrupt. Huge deficits. Military over stretched. Respect for America all over the world gone. Fear gone - let us face an unpalatable truth - David Petraeus for all his good work is runnig a model which cannot be sustained for the longer term - and the "shock and awe" military power of America is now no longer in evidence.

GWB has brought us to our knees. Why are we still having him as our President?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:17 PM on 08/17/2008
- Toonadude I'm a Fan of Toonadude 15 fans permalink

1. Who won American Idol ?
2. Who got voted off the island ?
3. Where is my prozac ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 PM on 08/17/2008
- RJII I'm a Fan of RJII 77 fans permalink
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who's staring on "dancing with the Stars" this season?

want one of my Lexapro?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 PM on 08/17/2008
- Totto I'm a Fan of Totto 40 fans permalink

And guess what?
Soon we will have his twisted ugly twin, John McCain!
You ain't seen nothin' yet!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 PM on 08/17/2008
- RJII I'm a Fan of RJII 77 fans permalink
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Shrub F--ked us royally all in the name of security.

bwa haa. our military is stuck in the sand, we're broke, china owns us, companies are going south, major banks are failing monthly, states like CA are seeing 41% foreclosures, layoffs, fallen tax revenues, crime going up ....

thanks stupid fear mongering republicans (and some dems) for thrusting your "american values" on everyone-- retards.
Reacting out of fear is always bad. Bush needs the war tribunal treatment like Saddam.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 PM on 08/17/2008
- Totto I'm a Fan of Totto 40 fans permalink

Bush/Cheney and PNAC saw Iraq as a giant pool of oil and cash cow for US and an enchanted democratic revolution would sweep the Middle East. So what if hundreds of thousands die. That's the "Great Game"!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 PM on 08/17/2008

Kind of reminicent of the US and Russia (the USSR then) back in the 80's except, the EXACT OPPOSITE.

And while it took the USSR 10 years in Afghanistan to get to the point we now find ourselves in, the Republican/NeoCons have done it in half of the time.

Pooty must be laughing himself to sleep every night.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 AM on 08/18/2008
- Exhaust I'm a Fan of Exhaust 3 fans permalink

Impotence? Really?
Seems to me that Putin signed the agreement we wanted him to sign.
Bush has hurt the "trust" and the "word" of the USA. As bad as things are for the USA now, Putin still doesn't have the respect that we do or the power and he knows it. We still have what Putin wants, but he undermines his own dreams, by being a bully.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:04 AM on 08/18/2008
- who38 I'm a Fan of who38 63 fans permalink

Dream on. Almost any country in the world has more respect for Putin than for Bush. Just wait until "draw down" time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:37 AM on 08/18/2008

Impotence, as in our military is over streched and hurting and our economy is weak while Russia is experiencing a boom. Remember it takes money to wage conflicts, like the tons of $ we are borrowng from China for our little ME venture.

One litle thing people are forgetting, Russia has rebuilt their armaments and military during their economic growth. Recall the little parade they held a few months ago? And now this strike with impunity at something the US was working on. Do you see the message??

And as far as the "agreement", Putin has learned a "valuable" lesson from Shrub. And that is he can ignore international laws with the same impunity that the US has. So he can make all the symbolical motions he wishes, like signing an agreement he is not fulfilling (His troops are still sitting there).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:51 AM on 08/18/2008
- Guynemer I'm a Fan of Guynemer 6 fans permalink
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia#2008


The Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) has also kept track of the numbers of Russian journalists killed since Vladimir Putin came to power in 2000.

"According to CPJ [Committee to Protect Journalists] research, Russia is the third deadliest country in the world for journalists over the past 15 years, behind only the conflict-ridden countries of Iraq and Algeria," the Committee to Protect Journalists said in a June 2007 statement. "A total of 47 journalists have been killed in Russia since 1992, with the vast majority of killings unsolved."

Kirill Pankratov criticized CPJ for applying different standards to different countries and for classifying some suspicious deaths of Russian journalists as "confirmed".

Since 2000, according to the CPJ, 17 journalists have been killed in Russia "in the line of duty". A total of 14 were murdered in retaliation for their journalism; "two died in crossfire; and one was killed while covering a dangerous assignment". The CPJ continues to investigate the deaths of eight other journalists to see if their deaths were also related to their work. None of the 14 murders committed since 2000 has been solved and "13 bear the marks of contract hits", according to the group.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 PM on 08/17/2008
- Crowhaul I'm a Fan of Crowhaul 12 fans permalink
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There should be a requirement that , prior to any "action" being taken against Russia, Bush & Cheney be tried at The Hague....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:10 PM on 08/17/2008
- Buddysingh I'm a Fan of Buddysingh 6 fans permalink
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BTW...I was talking to some Ruskies friends and I know that they are biased but how come there is no mention of some 2000 Ossetians being butchered by the Georgian forces. Also, they claim that the Georgian army was being advised by the the US advisors. If this is so, how come no mention of this in the press? Are we so biased in the western press that we will not report such an incidence. Can someone throw some light on this?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 PM on 08/17/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 323 fans permalink
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It was the middle of last week, but I saw multiple mentions of both stories.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 PM on 08/17/2008
- Totto I'm a Fan of Totto 40 fans permalink

You got it! Welcome to 1984...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 PM on 08/17/2008
- Exhaust I'm a Fan of Exhaust 3 fans permalink

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Were the 2000 dead civilians or separatist forces? In any case, the deaths on both sides were bad and some can argue pointless too. Can you trust the numbers given by Putin or Georgia? They are both going to give the numbers that put them in the best light.
Food for thought...why would Russia kill and bomb in any other area of Georgia, other than the Ossetia province? Pushing Georgia out of the Ossetia province should have been enough. Revenge for the death of some of their "Peace keeping forces" in that area? Maybe.
Excessive...yes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 PM on 08/17/2008
- andyg I'm a Fan of andyg 5 fans permalink

It part of Russia PR game with there own people, other media not reporting it because it not true.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:38 PM on 08/17/2008
- Totto I'm a Fan of Totto 40 fans permalink

Uh, Andy, it is true. Look it up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:51 PM on 08/17/2008
- Tom95134 I'm a Fan of Tom95134 53 fans permalink
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And just who will make Russia pay that price? Surely not George Bush.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 PM on 08/17/2008
- Toonadude I'm a Fan of Toonadude 15 fans permalink

The Heritage Foundation's revised definition of "appeasement" will be released in tomorrow's talking points to Rush and Hannity. Be sure to tune in.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 PM on 08/17/2008
- RJII I'm a Fan of RJII 77 fans permalink
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I have a question, that's probably gonna get me killed. But here it goes...what happens to KRB, Halliburton and Blackwater militias once we finally leave Iraq/Afganistan (on paper)? These are zillion dollar semi-secret corporate militias who won't losgive up our tax revenues nicely.

Is Georgia next.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 PM on 08/17/2008
- who38 I'm a Fan of who38 63 fans permalink

Yes, followed by Poland.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 AM on 08/18/2008

News Flash - just in from Burpleson AFB: "General Jack Ripper...issued an order to 34 B-52's to, uh, attack their targets inside Russia."

"Yes gentlemen, they are on their way in, and no one can bring them back. For the sake of our country, and our way of life, I suggest you get the rest of SAC in after them. Otherwise, we will be totally destroyed by Red retaliation. Uh, my boys will give you the best kind of start, 1400 megatons worth, and you sure as hell won't stop them now, uhuh. Uh, so let's get going, there's no other choice. God willing, we will prevail, in peace and freedom from fear, and in true health, through the purity and essence of our natural bodily fluids. God bless you all"

Whaddya got to say to that POOTY?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:05 PM on 08/17/2008
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What can be said that Slim Pickens didnt say better?

YeeeeeeHaa­aaawwww!!!­!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 PM on 08/17/2008
- darthdarcy I'm a Fan of darthdarcy 48 fans permalink
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POE...!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 PM on 08/17/2008
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