US, Poland OK missile defense base, riling Moscow

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VANESSA GERA and MONIKA SCISLOWSKA | August 20, 2008 06:09 PM EST | AP

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U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, left, and Poland's Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski, right, shake hands after signing an agreement to place a U.S. missile defense base in northern Poland, at the prime minister's office in Warsaw, Poland, Wednesday, Aug. 20, 2008. The formal signing comes six days after the two countries agreed to a deal that will see 10 U.S. interceptor missiles placed just 115 miles (180 kilometers) from Russia's westernmost frontier. (AP Photo/Czarek Sokolowski)

WARSAW, Poland — The United States and Poland signed a deal Wednesday to place a U.S. missile defense base just 115 miles from Russia _ a move followed swiftly by a new warning from Moscow of a possible military response.

For many Poles _ whose country has been a staunch U.S. ally _ the accord represented what they believed would be a guarantee of safety for themselves in the face of a newly assertive Russia.

Negotiators sealed the deal last week against a backdrop of Russian military action in Georgia, a former Soviet republic turned U.S. ally, that has worried former Soviet satellites across eastern Europe. It prompted Moscow's sharpest rhetoric yet over the system, which it contends is aimed at Russia despite Washington's insistence the site is purely defensive.

After Wednesday's signing, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice dismissed any suggestion the 10 missile defense interceptors _ which Washington says are intended to defend Europe and the U.S. from the possible threat of long-distance missiles from Iran _ represent a threat to Russia.

"Missile defense, of course, is aimed at no one," Rice said. "It is in our defense that we do this."

She denounced an earlier threat from a Russian general to target NATO member Poland, possibly even with nuclear weapons, for accepting the facility.

Such comments "border on the bizarre, frankly," Rice told reporters in Warsaw. "The Russians are losing their credibility," she said, adding that Moscow would pay a price for its actions in Georgia, though she did not specify how.

"It's also the case that when you threaten Poland, you perhaps forget that it is not 1988," Rice said. "It's 2008 and the United States has a ... firm treaty guarantee to defend Poland's territory as if it was the territory of the United States. So it's probably not wise to throw these threats around."

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Poland has been a staunch U.S. ally in both Iraq and Afghanistan. It sent combat troops into Iraq as part of the U.S.-led coalition and had 2,300 troops deployed there at its peak. That has been reduced to about 900, who will be pulled out in October. At the same time, Poland has been building up its military presence in Afghanistan, where it currently has some 1,600 troops.

Hours after the signing, Russia's Foreign Ministry warned that Moscow's response would go beyond diplomacy. The system to be based in Poland lacks "any target other than Russian intercontinental ballistic missiles," it said in a statement, contending the U.S. system "will be broadened and modernized."

"In this case Russia will be forced to react, and not only through diplomatic" channels, it said without elaborating.

Democratic Rep. Ellen Tauscher, who leads a key appropriations panel for missile defense, praised the deal. But she said that Democratic lawmakers intend to withhold funding for the interceptors planned for Poland until they are properly tested, a move that could delay the deployment for years.

The deal follows an earlier agreement to place the second component of the missile defense shield _ a radar tracking system _ in the neighboring Czech Republic, another formerly communist country now in NATO.

"We have achieved our main goals, which means that our country and the United States will be more secure," Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk told Rice after the signing.

Many Poles agreed. "After what happened in Georgia, I believe that this is good protection for us," said Kazimierz Dziuba, 49, a hospital worker in Warsaw.

The Georgian conflict "made the Americans agree to this deal sooner because the Russians are getting too bossy," Dziuba said.

Not all Poles were happy, however.

Alina Kesek, an 82-year-old retired office clerk who lived through World War II, when Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union divided Poland between them, and then experienced four decades of Moscow-dominated communist rule, said the Patriot missiles were a "kind of provocation" toward Russia.

"This means a threat from the Russian side," said Kesek. "I am not very pleased with this deal."

Some residents in the northern Polish town of Redzikowo, where the missile defense facility will be located, fear it may expose them to retaliatory attacks or other dangers.

Along with the main deal, the two nations signed a so-called "declaration on strategic cooperation," which is to deepen their military and political partnership.

It includes a mutual commitment to come to each other's assistance immediately if one is under attack _ enhancing existing obligations both have as NATO members.

The declaration also was accompanied by a promise from the U.S. to help modernize Poland's armed forces and to place a battery of Patriot missiles there by 2012.

Rice said the deal "will help both the alliance and Poland and the United States respond to the coming threats."

Poland and the United States spent a year and a half in formal talks, which snagged in the final phase on Poland's demands for the Patriot missiles and other points.

However, the deepening U.S.-Polish friendship dominated Wednesday's proceedings.

"In troubled times the most important thing is to have friends," Rice said. "But it is more important to have friends who share your values and your aspirations and your dreams. And Poland and the United States are those kind of friends."

Approval for the missile defense sites is still needed from the Czech and Polish parliaments. No date has been set for lawmakers in Warsaw to vote, but the deal enjoys the support of the largest opposition party as well as of the government.

____

Associated Press writers Matthew Lee, traveling with Rice, and Desmond Butler in Washington contributed to this report.

WARSAW, Poland — The United States and Poland signed a deal Wednesday to place a U.S. missile defense base just 115 miles from Russia _ a move followed swiftly by a new warning from Moscow of a ...
WARSAW, Poland — The United States and Poland signed a deal Wednesday to place a U.S. missile defense base just 115 miles from Russia _ a move followed swiftly by a new warning from Moscow of a ...
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Oh, patriot missiles, they are to defend Poland against Iranian attacks right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:05 PM on 08/20/2008
- sonofdy1 I'm a Fan of sonofdy1 3 fans permalink

No, from russian air attacks. Which seemed like an over-reaction to me before but now seems like a good idea.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:10 PM on 08/20/2008

Us needs poland as a backdoor to blackmail the rest of europe, on which it is loosing its grip. They hope to scare them into line.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:14 PM on 08/20/2008

Just great. Another war we cant afford to pay for or to fight. And some people still support this idiots.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:59 PM on 08/20/2008

I know that Poles are not happy with this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:56 PM on 08/20/2008
- TheImpaler I'm a Fan of TheImpaler 8 fans permalink
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I’m running out of space on some of my previous posts. So if you don't mind I'll repost two of my replies to your comment here: I disagree with some of your points! Not every nation in the world is arming. Those missiles would make zero tactical difference. Also, you are not going to like this but Poland should look for allies closer to its border, like Russia for example. Why not?


Russian threat is manufactured for domestic consumption. Islamo-Fascist threat was not sustainable in the long run, so now we are back to the old reliable enemy Russia. Please!!! I wonder if Polish government is using the fear card against its population the way our does? Probably so! Why else they would invite angry rhetoric from some nobody in Russia by allowing installation of missiles that, everyone knows, do not work anyway?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:12 PM on 08/20/2008

"Russian threat is manufactured for domestic consumption"

Unfortunately that is not the case. This is long range strategy, the US is losing power, and wants to press whatever advantages it has at its zenith, before major realignments and the next "era" is cemented.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:41 PM on 08/20/2008

When the hell are the democrats going to start a line of attack that we are incapable of dealing with this crisis or making any credible threats because we are completely tied down in the middle east in a fruitless war? A war that is the fault of Bush and McCain? When are they going to sound the alarm that we are on the brink of WWIII. Why are we letting this happen???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 PM on 08/20/2008

Letting it happen? Do you think Bush controls Russia? Yes, our military is currently busy. But what should we do, just tell Russia to take what they want, and have a good time? Because Georgia can't stop Russia, nor can Ukraine, or Poland, if attacked. We can stop Russia. Europe can probably stop Russia, if they unite and try.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:01 PM on 08/20/2008
- sonofdy1 I'm a Fan of sonofdy1 3 fans permalink

We can "stop" russia in 30 minutes but I don't think anyone wants to go that route. I sure as hell don't.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:07 PM on 08/20/2008
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Explain exactly what Russia is taking? They pushed Georgia out of South Ossetia after Georgia bombed civilians and the civilians screamed for help. The people of South Ossetia do not want to be part of Georgia. They consider Russia their ally. Russia didn't take a damn thing. All they did was smack down an illegal and immoral invasion of South Ossetia by a Georgian army that was completely financed and trained by the US and Israel. And the US, with this stupid "defense shield" that should be called an "offense shield" is just poking the bear, by planting missles on Russia's front doorstep. Once again, we're meddling with other countries and our MSM is lying through their teeth about the motives behind it. If Russia all of a sudden made a pact with Mexico to put a whole load of missles pointed at us along the Mexican border, do you think we'd just sit back and let it happen? No way. Or if Mexico invaded Texas and decided that Texas was going to be part of Mexico whether they liked it or not, and thousands of people were killed, would the US be called bullies for pushing the Mexican armed forces back across the border? No they wouldn't.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:23 PM on 08/20/2008
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If Russia did that they would only be following our example!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:30 PM on 08/20/2008
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Black or white. Invade or don't invade. Why can't you neocons think at least somewhat creatively? There are numerous responses we can make to Russian (or Georgian) aggression. We can also ANTICIPATE. Instead of the Bush (I and II) doctrine of 1) wait for a crisis, 2) dither, 3) react simply, and 4) ultimately throw large quantities of money at the problem, why not learn and anticipate, heading off trouble before it erupts into a crisis?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:30 PM on 08/20/2008

Never

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:25 PM on 08/20/2008

The US has long term strategic goals, in terms of containing Russia and China.
But this will backfire and will incite Russia and China to seek joint effort for
counteracting this trend. I guess sooner or later we will see the clash between
the West and the East. This Bush has really initiated the path towards the 3rd world war.
Oh well, that's what happens when you forget inter planetary expansion, you set
yourself for species extinction, whether it is D day caused by asteroid or a nuclear war.
All in all the human species has shown that even though it has great potential, it had
failed the test. In the meantime let us live while this planet is livable, my heart goes to
future generations. There will be heat, hunger, disease, etc...what a future....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 08/20/2008

Just what is it that "containing Russia and China" means? Containing them politically? Economically? Militarily? Ideologically?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:29 PM on 08/20/2008
- Forest I'm a Fan of Forest 7 fans permalink

The tragedy is that Poland is stuck in a Catch 22.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:47 PM on 08/20/2008
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You are wrong, they made a choice. They could have stayed out of this game that Bush/Rice is playing with Poland Ukraine and Georgia. The reason they joined NATO, put missles in Poland etc. is because the puppet Presidents are pulling in hundreds of millions in aid from USA. Make no mistake, this is a plan that started from day 1 with Cheney and the NEOCONS, they used 9/11 to create fear in Americans and with that fear they could spend their brains out and buy off/Install leaders in Afganistan,Poland and Georgia.
Russia will not allow this to happen, just like we wouldn't allow it in the western hemisphere.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:17 PM on 08/20/2008
- kallopolis I'm a Fan of kallopolis 2 fans permalink

So what are we going to do when Russia bombs (or attempts to bomb) the missle system in Poland?

Is the GOP this thick-headed to WANT WAR WITH RUSSIA?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:46 PM on 08/20/2008
- Bobleblah1 I'm a Fan of Bobleblah1 21 fans permalink

Russia will respond in an overwhelming manner to this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:44 PM on 08/20/2008
- sonofdy1 I'm a Fan of sonofdy1 3 fans permalink

Russia could. There is something going on behind the scenes here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 08/20/2008

Exactly my fear. And with the s*** hitting the fan this hard and seriously, you know what Fox is reporting? The fake sasquatch story. CNN is so caught up in the presidential race, they haven't reported anything on this either.

By the way, someone commented that this has Cheney's fingerprints all over it. Maybe so, but has anyone even seen him in the last 6 months? Where the hell is he?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:58 PM on 08/20/2008
- hypnus I'm a Fan of hypnus 35 fans permalink
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I believe the Bush Administration encouraged Georgia to provoke the Russians. This missile deal with Poland is also a part of a plan to provoke a new cold war. The G.O.P. see that terrorism doesn’t have the traction it once did, so now a new “be afraid, be very, very afraid” enemy needs to be hocked to panic the public so we’ll all run to Grandpa’s knee at election time. What a joke this all is. Why not just put a new name on the White House, call it, “The Home for the F*ucking Criminally Insane”.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:43 PM on 08/20/2008
- akkadian I'm a Fan of akkadian 6 fans permalink
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absolutely, divide and conquer..
bow your heads in fear...
hell and the devil, the commies, the cubans, the iraqis, al-qaeda
where would we be without fear?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:46 PM on 08/20/2008
- sonofdy1 I'm a Fan of sonofdy1 3 fans permalink

Proof?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:53 PM on 08/20/2008
- sonofdy1 I'm a Fan of sonofdy1 3 fans permalink

Or it could be russia wants its old power back.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:54 PM on 08/20/2008
- sonofdy1 I'm a Fan of sonofdy1 3 fans permalink

I believe the Bush Administration encouraged Georgia to provoke the Russians.
-------------

HUH??? Why on earth would they do that? Do you have any proof of that?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:50 PM on 08/20/2008

Yeah.... McCain's top advisor is the lobbyist for Georgia. Karl Rove recently met with the President of Georgia about a month before Georgia attacked civilians in South Ossettia. The Bush Administration has been trying to get missiles in Poland for awhile now, but haven't had an "excuse". They were for a long time insisting they needed them to guard against Iran, but Putin saw through that and saw it for what it is - a complete threat to Russia. Getting Georgia to provoke Russia was exactly what the neocons wanted - to create instability and allow John McCain to talk about foreign policy other than Iraq. The Georgian president was foolish enough to believe them that the U.S. 'had his back'. And now we get to put missiles in Poland, which helps create cold war instability (again a total advantage to the republicans whose only hope of staying in power is to scare people enough) and it has the added bonus of creating wealth for all the defense contractors.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 PM on 08/20/2008

I dunno... OIL comes to mind, it was the reason for illegally invading Iraq as McCain once metioned:

"My friends, I will have an energy policy that we will be talking about, which will eliminate our dependence on oil from the Middle East that will - that will then prevent us - that will prevent us from having ever to send our young men and women into conflict again in the Middle East."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:07 PM on 08/20/2008
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Are you that naive, or just a Fox viewer? The military industrial complex needs to be fed, Iraq is coming to an end, GE,Haliburton and Boeing need to be fed. Why would we invade a country that never attacked us (Iraq), we lied to get into that war and we are doing it again!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:21 PM on 08/20/2008
- Forest I'm a Fan of Forest 7 fans permalink

Consider the oil pipelines that run through the Caucasus on which the US is becoming increasingly dependent. As long as we have leaders who ignore conservation measures and get rich on going for more oil, there will be more wars which in turn will produce never- ending war profits and global conflicts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:27 PM on 08/20/2008

Give me a break. Conservatives don't want war. Nobody wants war with Russia, except maybe Russia, by the way they are acting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 PM on 08/20/2008
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PNAC neocons apparently do; war without end for profit.

Exxon John McCain is a signatory of the PNAC BTW.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:27 PM on 08/20/2008
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The way they are acting???? What do you expect ... What do you think we would do if Russia wanted to put nukes in our front yard??? We would want sanctions, blockades ... Heck ... we might even try a sure to fail agression against a sovreign nation near our borders.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:32 PM on 08/20/2008

Condoleezza Wright now says we will put missiles in Poland that aren’t pointed at anything. Anyone want to explain the logic in this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:43 PM on 08/20/2008
- MajorKong I'm a Fan of MajorKong 402 fans permalink
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They're anti-ballistic missiles, not surface-to-surface missiles. By themselves, they're defensive in nature. The Russians are worried, however, that they could be part of something larger and more threatening.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:25 PM on 08/20/2008

Bring it on!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:42 PM on 08/20/2008
- sonofdy1 I'm a Fan of sonofdy1 3 fans permalink

Rice dismissed blustery comments from Russian leaders who say Warsaw's hosting of 10 U.S. interceptor missiles just 115 miles from Russia's westernmost frontier opens the country up to attack.

------------------
This is actualy inaccurate. Russia borders poland through Kaliningrad (old east prussia) and has major bases there. How Russia thinks 10 intercepter missiles will stop 10,000 russian missiles is beyond me. Something else is going on here and this could get ugly fast.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:35 PM on 08/20/2008

Russia is definitely being incredibly deceptive, and apparently doesn't even mind if we can tell. 10 defensive missiles in Poland is no threat to them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 08/20/2008
- sonofdy1 I'm a Fan of sonofdy1 3 fans permalink

Something else is going on, I wonder where the other 6000 russian tanks are right now?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:01 PM on 08/20/2008

This is really a serious situation. If Russia makes a move against Poland, NATO will have to respond, effectively dropping us into WWIII. I am not being alarmist, just analyzing the situation:
1. US and NATO forces at war in Afghanistan (justified)
2. US invades Iraq (not justified)
3. Russia invades Georgia (probably not justified)
4. Musharraf steps down in Pakistan (stability questionable; nuclear armed; western border freely open to Taliban
5. US ticks off Iran and contemplating a military strike
6. Poland and US sign missle defense system deal and Russia threatens to invade Poland; NATO (most countries in Europe) forces respond

This effectively puts 6-10 nations either at war or facing the threat of war. On that scale, we are talking world war, basically. Absolutely terrifying.

What was Poland thinking? They have been at the center and decimated in WWI and WWII, and this time they've invited the same damned thing themselves! The Bush administration has place us in hell.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:35 PM on 08/20/2008
- sonofdy1 I'm a Fan of sonofdy1 3 fans permalink

Poland didn't exist at the being of WWI

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 08/20/2008
- sonofdy1 I'm a Fan of sonofdy1 3 fans permalink

being = begining

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:44 PM on 08/20/2008
- Pyrrhus I'm a Fan of Pyrrhus 7 fans permalink

Correct, but "Poland" in 1914 was partitioned between Austria-Hungary, Russia, and Germany. There were major campaigns fought in those regions that took the lives of hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians. Poles served in all three armies as well. So you're both right.

Plus Poland and Russia have traditionally been enemies since Ivan the Terrible. This animosity goes way back.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 PM on 08/20/2008

Well, technically you're right, but it had been carved up by other nations. But, that wasn't the point. The point is, why would they antagonize Russia?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:54 PM on 08/20/2008

And what is Russia thinking? What can they possibly gain here? Any big war they lose unless they go nuclear, in which case everyone loses in a big way.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:54 PM on 08/20/2008
- PatCroft I'm a Fan of PatCroft 16 fans permalink
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We did'nt have to go into Afghanistan. Don't forget that Ben Ladin was offered to us through a third party nation. We just have a military might that has no check and balance and is out of control. Best thing we can do is disarm ourselves. Especially if we have no control with this bind rage of power.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:25 PM on 08/20/2008
- akkadian I'm a Fan of akkadian 6 fans permalink
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Georgia vs Afghanistan and Iraq...
credibility gap?
what credibility gap?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 08/20/2008
- ripples I'm a Fan of ripples 6 fans permalink

well seeing as things are going so well in iraq we gotta find another mission for the 160k u.s. troops - lets see how about 25k to afghan and 125k to poland, the other 10k we can keep in reserve in case those pesky chinamen get uppity...and while we are at it lets put france on notice that if they don't get behind us this time then they can kiss paris goodbye, couple of well placed nukes will take care of those parisan snobs...oh yeah and if germany, italy, and england don't get on board with us then lets nuke them too...like the decider says, "you are either with us or against us"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:30 PM on 08/20/2008
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