Russians dig in but still promise Georgia pullout

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MIKE ECKEL | August 21, 2008 10:36 PM EST | AP

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A Russian armored vehicle is seen at a checkpoint near the village of Khurvaleti, about 60 kilometers (37 miles) northwest of the Georgian capital of Tbilisi, Thursday, Aug. 21, 2008. Russian control of the roads and uncertainty about the security situation has made it difficult for international groups to deliver aid, contributing to the desperation of Georgians in Gori and outlying villages. (AP Photo/Sergei Grits)

GORI, Georgia — Russian forces lingered deep in Georgia on Thursday, digging trenches and setting up mortars a day before Kremlin officials promised to complete a troop withdrawal from this former Soviet republic.

But a top Russian general said it could be 10 days before the bulk of the troops left, and the mixed signals from Moscow left Georgians guessing about its intentions nearly a week after a cease-fire deal.

Strains in relations between Russia and the West showed no improvement. NATO, Moscow's Cold War foe, said Russia had halted military cooperation with the alliance, underscoring the growing division in a Europe that had seemed destined for unity after the Soviet Union collapsed.

Western leaders remained adamant that Russia remove its troops and do it quickly.

President Bush told Georgia President Mikhail Saakashvili that the U.S. "expects Russia to abide by its agreement to withdraw forces," White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said. The Georgian leader called Bush Thursday, who is vacationing at his Texas ranch.

While refugees from the fighting over the South Ossetia region crammed Georgian schools and office buildings, a scattering of people left in a half-empty village said they were badly in need of basics.

"There is no bread, there is no food, no medicine. People are dying," said Nina Meladze, 45, in the village of Nadarbazevi, outside the key crossroads city of Gori. She said she stayed because she could not leave elderly relatives behind while other villagers fled to the capital, Tbilisi.

She said the village has been virtually abandoned since the war broke out. "I cannot go on like this anymore, I cry every day," she said.

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Russian troops still controlled nearby Gori, which straddles Georgia's main east-west road, and the village of Igoeti about 30 miles west of Tbilisi. On the road between Gori and Tskhinvali, South Ossetia's battered capital, Russian soldiers built high earthen berms and strung barbed wire in at least three spots.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev promised earlier that his forces would pull back as far as South Ossetia and a surrounding security zone by Friday.

Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov reiterated that late Thursday, saying the troops would begin pulling back toward South Ossetia on Friday morning and be finished by day's end.

But the commander of Russian land forces, Gen. Vladimir Boldyrev, said it would take about 10 days for troops not involved in manning the security zones to complete their withdrawal to Russia, moving "in columns in the established order."

That suggested Russian soldiers could still be holding territory in Georgia up to the end of August.

The European Union-sponsored cease-fire says both Russian and Georgian troops must move back to positions they held before fighting broke out Aug. 7 in South Ossetia, which has close ties to Russia. The agreement says Russian forces also can be in a security zone that extends 4.3 miles into Georgia from South Ossetia.

Russian troops are also allowed a presence on Georgian territory in a security zone along the border with Abkhazia, another separatist Georgian region, under a 1994 U.N.-approved agreement that ended a war there.

Around Georgia's main Black Sea port city of Poti _ outside any security zone _ signs seemed to point to a prolonged presence. Russian troops excavated trenches, set up mortars and blocked a key bridge with armored personnel carriers and trucks. Other armored vehicles and trucks parked in a nearby forest.

Officials in Poti said the city had been looted by the Russians over the past week. Associated Press journalists saw Russian troops carry tables and chairs out on armored personnel carriers Thursday as residents protested. An AP photographer and TV crew were briefly detained by armed soldiers near Poti, who seized their digital memory cards and videotapes.

Poti Mayor Vano Taginadze said Russian troops were setting up new roadblocks and "moving around in the city and looking and searching in different places." Residents in Poti demonstrated against the Russian presence, waving red-and-white Georgian flags and banners and shouting "Russian occupants go home" in English.

Some Russian troops and military vehicles were on the move, including 21 tanks an AP reporter saw heading toward Russia from inside South Ossetia. Elsewhere, tanks, armored personnel carriers and trucks were seen moving in both directions on the road from Gori to Tskhinvali.

French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner hailed the report of tank movements.

"We are waiting ... for the Russians to respect their word," Kouchner told reporters in Paris. "We waited twice with dashed hopes. This time, it appears that there is at least the beginning of a fulfillment."

Outside the South Ossetian capital, Tskhinvali, several ethnic Georgian villages were burning Thursday _ many days after fighting ended _ and bore evidence of destruction from looting. Some Ossetians said they were not prepared to live alongside ethnic Georgians anymore.

"It's not they, it's we who will erase them from the face of Earth," said Alan Didurov, 46.

Renowned conductor Valery Gergiev, who is Ossetian, led a requiem concert for the dead Thursday night in Tskhinvali _ part of an effort to win international sympathy for Russia's argument that its invasion was justified by Georgia's attempt to regain control of South Ossetia by force.

"We want everyone to know the truth about the terrible events in Tskhinvali ... with the hope that such a thing will never again happen on our land," Gergiev said before the concert, held in front of the badly damaged South Ossetian legislature before a crowd flanked by two armored personnel carriers.

In a move sure to heighten tensions, a U.S. Navy guided missile destroyer loaded with humanitarian supplies headed toward Georgia through Turkey's straits between the Mediterranean and the Black Sea. It was the first of three U.S. warships carrying blankets, hygiene kits and baby food to Georgia.

Paul Farley, a spokesman at the U.S. naval base in Crete, said all three would reach Georgia "within the next week." He did not give their exact destination.

The United States has carried out 20 aid flights to Georgia since Aug. 19. The U.N. estimates 158,000 people have fled their homes.

"We anticipate staying as long as there is need and helping to set up the economy, because it's very important that the economy begins to take on its normal aspects. But it depends on our ability to do full assessments throughout Georgia," Henrietta Fore, the administrator of the U.S. Agency for International Development, told reporters Thursday in Washington.

___

Associated Press writers Bela Szandelszky and Raul Gallego in Poti, Sergei Grits in Igoeti, Christopher Torchia in Gori, Yuras Karmanau in Tskhinvali, and Jim Heintz, David Nowak, Maria Danilova, Jill Lawless and Steve Gutterman in Moscow contributed to this report.

GORI, Georgia — Russian forces lingered deep in Georgia on Thursday, digging trenches and setting up mortars a day before Kremlin officials promised to complete a troop withdrawal from this form...
GORI, Georgia — Russian forces lingered deep in Georgia on Thursday, digging trenches and setting up mortars a day before Kremlin officials promised to complete a troop withdrawal from this form...
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- berrycooda I'm a Fan of berrycooda 24 fans permalink

Putin is a little man with big ambitions. Doesn't like that USSR is not there anymore.
It is now rich in oil and he is not going to leave Georgia until he gets control again.
The Russians have already torn up the roads, railroads, air fields and sunk their ships.
This was not necessary and he is stalling just like he has done for the last week or more.
He is pushing the envelope because he wants a confrontation with the U.S. , not Nato.
The Olympics are supposed to be there in a few years.....­good luck with that....

So what if we put missile shields up in Poland. It would protect Russia too if Iran starts something, unless Russia will side with Iran.
These are the kind of people we need protection from....Ho­theads who will stop at nothing if they want to push the nuclear button.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 PM on 08/21/2008
- emcd I'm a Fan of emcd 9 fans permalink

I don't know where to go to get the "real" story here, but this whole poor, poor Georgia posture smells!

Why have the Israelis been arming Georgia for months if not years? Why were National Guard troops from the state of Georgia sent to Republic of Georgia in July? Did the US buy Georgia's membership in the COALITION OF THE WILLING in Iraq by making an agreement with Georgia that they now are being called on the honor?

I am not suggesting Russia is innocent at all. What I am saying is view this through a different lens. How did we react when the Russians put missiles 90 miles away from our borders in Cuba? that is how close we are to their borders and not in just one location either.

What would you do if you were them?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:10 PM on 08/21/2008
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the US is posturing by putting missile bases in Poland, and the Russians are supposed to do what?
i think this is their way of saying, lets get it on, you cannot achieve anything by making aggressive comments directed at someone if you want a solution.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 PM on 08/21/2008

A a partner of NATO, Russia should be rejoicing over those missils, which are there to protect her people from terrorist rouge nations!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 PM on 08/21/2008

Wow, what a surprise..­.Russia is already in violation of the withdrawal agreement. It's no secret that Russia has been planning this operation for some time. Ossetia was just a pretext, a fig leaf to maintain some semblance of international respectability. They may have won this round but they will ultimately lose the larger war. Putin (and Russia writ large) should ask himself why is it that the countries that border Russia, given freedom of choice, much prefer an alliance with the West than to be part of the old Soviet empire. Within the answer to this question lies the fundamental reason Russia will ultimately fail in their quest to dominate Georgia and the rest of the region.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 PM on 08/21/2008

That's right. Russia is a big loser in this game. The European Union should seek another energy partner in a hurry! Russia must be bankrupted as is North Korea. Russia always fights when she has some money to spare!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:25 PM on 08/21/2008

"Ossetia was just a pretext, a fig leaf to maintain some semblance of international respectability. "

as in...

WMD's was just a pretext, a fig leaf to maintain some semblance of international respectability?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:35 PM on 08/21/2008

To all the trigger happy, drum beaters posting here lately...

Sorry, Senator Joe McCarthy already blathered your key talking points, utilizing the same tired rhetoric and "better dead than red witch hunts' back in the 50's. Are his disgraced antics suddenly back in vogue?

Why not just prod the humbled Russians into countering our NATO / military initiatives in Eastern Europe (and Iraq) by reintroducing their own "defensive" missile systems in Cuba, Bolivia or Venezuela. I'm sure Chavez wouldn't mind the additional troops, arms and support!

What would you have us do then? Invade these, now not so entitled, "sovereign states"? Begin a limited "tactical" nuclear exchange with "acceptable losses" and "minimal collateral damage"?

Of course, you keep ranting that we should just all shut up, with our "Blame America 1st type drivel" This while you, the more brilliant students of history, keep incessantly driving this nation headfirst into the dirt and possibly beyond. How can a group of posters collectively batting about .073, even venture an opinion about capturing a league championship?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:46 PM on 08/21/2008
- Agnim I'm a Fan of Agnim 6 fans permalink

The wild bush incited the horrible genocidal assault on Ossetia by encouraging the Georgian lunatic, Saakhasvili, to try and take Ossetia by force of arms.

And the wild bush has stiffen the resolve of the Russians by promising to send the US Navy to Georgia.

So of course the Russians are going to block Georgian port and prevent further NATO militarization of Georgia on their border.

Americans should be grateful that someone is finally putting a stop to the excesses of the wild bush, who is also destroying Americans Constitutional rights and liberties at home and is creating one foreign policy blunder after another.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 PM on 08/21/2008
- research I'm a Fan of research 276 fans permalink

Unfortunately reason is losing the propaganda war in the MSM.

"Georgia is just a little state trying to keep it's Independence from Russia" ?!?

NOT

Georgia attack the Disputed Ossitia after agreeing to a cease fire, at the prodding of McCains foreign adviser and with US and Israeli weapons and training.

Even KO only got it right in passing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:46 PM on 08/21/2008
- UnbiasView I'm a Fan of UnbiasView 20 fans permalink

Is Ossetia in Georgia?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 PM on 08/21/2008

South Ossetia is in Georgia

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:54 PM on 08/21/2008

Interesting logic, Georgia has the right to secede from Russia, but Ossetia doesn't have the right to secede from Georgia.

~~~

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/country_profiles/3797729.stm

Regions and territories: South Ossetia

Status: Break-away region of Georgia. Separated from Georgia in a 1991-92 war.

Mountainous South Ossetia, which is in Georgia, is separated from North Ossetia, which is in Russia, by the border between the two countries running high in the Caucasus. Much of the region lies more than 1000 metres above sea level.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:35 PM on 08/21/2008
- research I'm a Fan of research 276 fans permalink

Ossetia declared it's independence at the same time Georgia did. Georgia signed a cease fire, just before they attack.

Stalin grouped Ossetia with Georgia.

Is that who you want to support?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:57 PM on 08/21/2008

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSHO05105720080810?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0

Timeline: Conflict between Georgia and South Ossetia

June 2007 - South Ossetian separatists say Georgia attacked Tskhinvali with mortar and sniper fire.

August 2008 - Georgian forces attack South Ossetia's capital Tskhinvali to re-take the breakaway region. Russia says its troops were responding to the assault and Georgia's Saakashvili says the two countries were at war.

~~~~

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/14/AR2008081403048.html

Last week, Georgia's president invaded South Ossetia during the night, much as Adolf Hitler invaded Russia in 1941. Within hours, Georgian troops destroyed Tskhinvali, a city of 100,000, and they killed more than 2,000 civilians. Almost all of the people who died that night were Russian citizens. They chose to become citizens of Russia years ago, when Georgia refused to recognize South Ossetia as a non-Georgian territory.

~~~~

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e70_1219043031

Georgia attacked first, The Video
Here is further proof of who attacked first.
You can watch various news reports from diferent broadcasting corporations.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:38 PM on 08/21/2008
- Garvagh I'm a Fan of Garvagh 11 fans permalink

The astounding stupidity of Mikheil Saakashvili in launching the surprise attack against Russian soldiers in South Ossetia almost certainly will have the result of permanently detaching both South Ossetia and Abkhazia from Georgia. This is not necessarily a bad thing; the most important question is how the establish true stability and security in the Caucasus.

John McCain and his bearded menace of a Georgian lobbyist cum foreign policy adviser (Randy Scheunemann) clearly helped to inflate the already colossal ego of the Georgian president so that he brought about the present disaster. Saakashvili needs to learn to button his lip and to stop mouthing off against Russian leaders who seek stability in the Middle East.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:36 PM on 08/21/2008

Our boys may be tired of war but they can beat the Russians in this ball game, lets just look and see what they're up against:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/index.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 PM on 08/21/2008

Yeah right.....­...LOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:37 PM on 08/21/2008
- Tasies I'm a Fan of Tasies 22 fans permalink
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Don't you know the US only seeks military conflict against underdeveloped and weak third world nations? It's a marked trait of a bully.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:41 PM on 08/21/2008
- UnbiasView I'm a Fan of UnbiasView 20 fans permalink

Yeah I hate America too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 PM on 08/21/2008

America is a schoolyard bully and you folks wonder why you are so hated.....­....its not for your so called ''freedoms''.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 08/21/2008

Do you guys ever stop and THINK??

Do you really believe we are going to fight another nuclear power like Russia??

REALLY??

Why do you think we didn't invade North Korea, or allied Pakistan where the terrorists really are. And you think we are going to war with Russia?? You guys are just chest beating mental midgets that have watched too many John Wayne movies.

Further more...


More than our armed forces being spread too thin and weakened, wars and conflicts cost LOTS of money. As an example our venture in the ME is stimated to cost us a Trillion and a half, most of which we are borrowing from communist China.

Our economy is well..., in the toilet, we can not afford to oppose Russia who is having an economic upswing and Russia knows it.

A reversal of roles of the then USSR and the US back in the 80's. In which they were stuck in Afghanistan and we were experiencing an economic upswing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 PM on 08/21/2008
- Chavez08 I'm a Fan of Chavez08 58 fans permalink
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Sahskavilli fell for the old "my bosses in Washington said we've got your back if you take SO. You don't need to talk directly to Condi, she assured me...[wink­-nod] "

Too bad Sashki didn't talk to Saddam about U.S. State Dept. bait and switches.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:32 PM on 08/21/2008

Russia was totally justified in routing Georgian aggression. Also justified in degrading Georgian military capacity. But lets not get carried away here and turn it into a permanent occupation. This will hurt Russian strategic interests. And what would be the point? Georgians will take revenge on Saakawillie better than Russians could ( short of a quick sniper hit).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:31 PM on 08/21/2008
- UnbiasView I'm a Fan of UnbiasView 20 fans permalink

"This will hurt Russian strategic interests"

Take a look at the map . . . this is exactly what they want. If they roll a couple small countries, they will be neighbors with their buddies Iran.

BTW, this Georgian aggression you speak of . . . what country was it against?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 PM on 08/21/2008

I don't understand Bush or Condi's complaint. After all I suspect the Russians will withdraw "according to the conditions on the ground." Bush and Condi have been telling us all for several years that such a policy is the only reasonable thing to do.

Why do so many in the west have such a problem with Russia following Bush's lead?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 08/21/2008
- Swerinjer I'm a Fan of Swerinjer 9 fans permalink

Except for one difference: Unlike Russia we were the aggressors in Iraq.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 PM on 08/21/2008

Actually Bush/Cheney/Rice all thought they were only enforcing the Monroe Doctrine when they invaded Iraq. You know, the doctrine that says everything in the world is within our sphere of influence; that Old Europe no longer counts, effectively eliminating the separation of the U.S. and European spheres? And that "non-intervention" clause is just too quaint to bother with.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:16 PM on 08/21/2008
- UnbiasView I'm a Fan of UnbiasView 20 fans permalink

Wow, do you remember the agreement after the 1st Gulf war?

How many UN resolutions did Georgia break vs Iran?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 PM on 08/21/2008

America did not go to Iraq to steal land and infrastructure. The Russians are doing just that in Georgia. America did not go to oppress, but to lberate. Russia has oppressin in mind, for Georgia!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:32 PM on 08/21/2008

It IS about oil (energy)..­.. But it is also about power, geopolitical influence, national pride (Russia's), politics, a US election, a weakened super power(USA), economics, national defense (Russia's), an incompetent State Dept (USA), a military/political miscalculation of historic proportion (Georgia) (aided by arguably the most incompetent US administration in US history), a weakened UN, an emerging, more powerful Russia (price of oil/energy due in part to US occupation of Iraq and threats to Iran), an extremely powerful, focused,intelligent and potentially ruthless leader with his countrie's best interests at heart (Putin). I'm sure there's many more but I think I've made the point. It's a complicated and complex world in need of leaders who understand this and who I may or may not feel comfortable "having a beer with."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 PM on 08/21/2008
- K-Dog76 I'm a Fan of K-Dog76 8 fans permalink

Sammy1,

I agree with a lot of what you say...

My particular beef is "best interests at heart (Putin)."
If his best interest is OIL then you are correct. Because thats what controlling the port and pipeline are all about, and that's what he's grabbed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:35 PM on 08/21/2008

Yes, to control the flow of oil through Georgia (along with a warm water port) is in Russia's best interest. I may not agree it is right or fair that they do so but it would be difficult to make an argument that Putin does not think that this move is in Russia's econnomic, geopolitical interests. And Shaskashvilli (sp?) (along with US advice) gave Russia the perfect opportunity to move on Georgia that Putin wasted no time pouncing on (while sitting next to Bush who was giddily waving the flag (backwards) at the olympics.)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:08 PM on 08/21/2008

Breaking News: John McCain wants to Bring Back the Draft

This is serious Everyone!!!!!!!

John McCain wants to send your Sons to War

Please take his words seriously because it will be your Sons and daughters Lives you put on the line.

18-26 olds you are the one he is willing to send

40-55 olds these are your sons and daughters that he is willing to send

60 and over these my be you grand kids that he is willing to send

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 PM on 08/21/2008

Americans sometimes voted against their economic interests. This time, we will see if they will vote against their children's future.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:12 PM on 08/21/2008
- TheImpaler I'm a Fan of TheImpaler 8 fans permalink
photo

They vote against their children's future all the time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:45 PM on 08/21/2008

OK, I get it, you don't support Republicans. Neither do I. But this kind of childish stuff is not helpful.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:35 PM on 08/21/2008
- TheImpaler I'm a Fan of TheImpaler 8 fans permalink
photo

Good! Hopefully that would prevent stupid wars from being waged in the first place. Maybe then people would start paying attention. There are better ways to teach Americans geography. I doubt that someone like McCain would really welcome that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:38 PM on 08/21/2008
- K-Dog76 I'm a Fan of K-Dog76 8 fans permalink

Plumbervip,

Usually its the Democrats in congress that want to bring back the draft, since most volunteer military personel tend to be lower income minorities. Particular Dems have introduced it last year. example: Charles Rangel (D-NY)
H.R. 393: Universal National Service Act of 2007
To require all persons in the United States between the ages of 18 and 42 to perform national service, either as a member of the uniformed services or in civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, to authorize the induction of persons in the uniformed services during wartime to meet end-strength requirements of the uniformed services, to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to make permanent the favorable treatment afforded combat pay under the earned income tax credit, and for other purposes.
source:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-393

This is Serious everyone!!!! Don't blame McCain for this, there are plenty of other things to pick on him for. Hate McCain for all I care, but place the credit where credit is due...Its just important to get the facts straight if you want good government. Divided We Fail.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:43 PM on 08/21/2008
- grn1 I'm a Fan of grn1 8 fans permalink
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:52 PM on 08/21/2008
- Swerinjer I'm a Fan of Swerinjer 9 fans permalink

Nice link grn. Israel bet on the wrong horse and is pulling out. The US is stupidly backing them up. As if the world doesn't know Georgia is the aggressor. Bush couldn't make the US more despised if he tried.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 PM on 08/21/2008

Putin surely outwitted Bush on this. Russia under Putin is becoming a pariah!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:38 PM on 08/21/2008
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