McCain Camp Responds To False Palin 'Banned-Books' List

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First Posted: 09- 9-08 12:29 AM   |   Updated: 10- 9-08 05:12 AM

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In a page right out of the Obama playbook, John McCain's campaign is responding directly and forcefully to a smear email campaign currently making the rounds. Betting against the conventional wisdom -- which, until this cycle, held that scurrilous rumors were not worth drawing attention to via a rebuttal -- the Republican nominee is disputing the charge that Sarah Palin supposedly banned a list of books when she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska.

Introducing the comprehensive memo to reporters in an email that recalls the Obama camp's "Fight the Smears" missives, McCain spokesman Brian Rogers decried "the latest false smear spreading from liberal blogs to the mainstream press - that Governor Palin banned books as Mayor of Wasilla. This is categorically false. The fact is that as Mayor, Palin never asked anyone to ban a book and not one book was ever banned, period."

That is true, though not a comprehensive account of the matter. The librarian in question has admitted that she only ever heard from Palin in the abstract on the issue of whether books could be pulled from library stacks. After the librarian responded that she would oppose such a move, no further discussions were held with Palin. Certainly, there was no official list drawn up. However, in a fact the McCain email leaves out, Palin approached the librarian three times to ask about the possibility, which could legitimately appear to some as something of a pressure campaign (especially considering that Palin attempted to have the librarian removed afterward).

Still, the list of books supposedly banned under Palin's tenure is transparently fake. What's interesting, however, is the fact that the McCain campaign responded to this issue with the same force Obama has used to combat rumors about his religion or alleged support for "infanticide." Was there a sense in McCain's universe that the banned books trope was potentially similar in terms of its crippling ability?

Democratic pollster Mark Mellman noted that it's not terribly surprising that McCain would choose to fight this smear, since "book-banners have had a bad reputation in America for a long time," adding that he's never done polling on it because "it's pretty extreme." Still, Mellman can see why the McCain-Palin ticket would have additional cause to fight against this particular lie, since other legitimate knocks against Palin could combine to paint an anti-education picture in the minds of some swing voters. Palin has, for example, declared herself open to teaching creationism alongside evolution in public schools. "That's already a problem for them," Mellman said, "since creationism is a real issue. Americans are very religious, but they also believe science ought to be taught in public schools. This issue [of banned books] seems to be in a different category in addition to being false, but it's related."

But Republican strategist Alex Castellanos took a different view, suggesting that continued media scrutiny on even the legitimate facts of the Wasilla library episode could move moderate voters in Palin's direction. "I think if the media keeps attacking Palin for things like this, her favorable ratings will climb to over 80 percent like they did in Alaska," Castellanos told the Huffington Post. "A mom being concerned about what kind of books our kids read and asking rhetorical questions about what can legally be done to protect them? What's wrong with that? ... This kind of foolishness is making her a hero to more than the evangelical right. It will make her a hero to working class women."

Regardless of how the issue (and its attendant coverage) shakes out with hard-to-predict swing voters, it's clear that the McCain campaign isn't taking any chances with the false charge of banning a particular list of books. (The fake list can be viewed here.) One other aspect of the GOP's response is worth noting, as well. It took the McCain campaign the whole weekend to issue a response to the emerging smear after its first appearance late last week -- a lifetime in rapid response years. Beyond the question of the fake banned book list, the question of Palin's role in the Wasilla library scene was first raised by Wasilla resident Anne Kilkenny in an August 31 email that has been widely distributed online. One explanation for the McCain camp's comparatively laggard pace of response is hinted at in their own research. Several articles cited by the McCain campaign in today's rebuttal email come from Wasilla's local newspaper, the Frontiersman. As the Huffington Post reported last week, GOP operatives lagged behind Democrats in requesting the paper's full archives for research.

In a page right out of the Obama playbook, John McCain's campaign is responding directly and forcefully to a smear email campaign currently making the rounds. Betting against the conventional wisdom -...
In a page right out of the Obama playbook, John McCain's campaign is responding directly and forcefully to a smear email campaign currently making the rounds. Betting against the conventional wisdom -...
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This is a case of "the pot calling the kettle black". I guess it's okay for John Bush to spread vicious lies about Obama but doesn't like it much when it happens to affect him. tsk tsk. What goes around comes around - The law of karma is pretty strict. It doesn't pick and choose.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 PM on 09/09/2008
- wdw101 I'm a Fan of wdw101 20 fans permalink

all book banning is not bad. my community got the book "why johnny has two dads" removed from the library in the elementary school....I don't have any problem with that....it was directed for 2nd to 3rd grade reading

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:58 PM on 09/09/2008
- zenlikejen I'm a Fan of zenlikejen 19 fans permalink
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All book banning IS bad - the fact that you don't understand that is beyond me....and no, I refuse to explain it to you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:21 PM on 09/09/2008
- laocoon I'm a Fan of laocoon 30 fans permalink

Restricting books to some age groups is one thing but if you read the story it seems Mrs Palin was asking the "rhetorical" question and suggesting that there might be demonstrations against some books. It would be consistent with her overall world view- it seems to me -to ban certain books.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 PM on 09/09/2008
- wdw101 I'm a Fan of wdw101 20 fans permalink

so now should we give free access to porno for kids.........how liberal are you?
protecting kids is important to me maybe not you

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:09 PM on 09/09/2008
- JinChicago I'm a Fan of JinChicago 2 fans permalink

so now kids with gay dads can feel outcasted? did you remove 'everyone poops' cause it deals with scat? would you ban 'huck finn' cause the word N***** is used?



way to be hypocritical!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 PM on 09/09/2008
- zenlikejen I'm a Fan of zenlikejen 19 fans permalink
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Now you'll have to explain to him what 'scat' means.....I'm pretty sure he banned anything beyond a 3rd grade reading level, anyway.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:23 PM on 09/09/2008
- wdw101 I'm a Fan of wdw101 20 fans permalink

how am i hypocritical? that book was inappropriate for 2nd and 3rd grade kids.......using your logic we should give these kids the joys of sex book..............

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:03 PM on 09/09/2008
- wrylass I'm a Fan of wrylass 4 fans permalink

Then I think your community most definitely deserves to have Ms Palin as your mayor. I think it would really work out well for all of us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:38 PM on 09/09/2008
- wdw101 I'm a Fan of wdw101 20 fans permalink

i would prefer VP

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:59 PM on 09/09/2008
- katedog I'm a Fan of katedog 10 fans permalink
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WOW! Your community moved a "two dads" book off the shelf. Keeping them sheltered, keeps them socially stunted. Because, seriously, the rest of the real world has moved on. Probably onto a new prejudice however, but the two mommy-daddy issue isn't worth the misconception and anger.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 PM on 09/09/2008
- wdw101 I'm a Fan of wdw101 20 fans permalink

2nd and 3rd grade kids do not need that

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:58 PM on 09/09/2008
- GSMRaleigh I'm a Fan of GSMRaleigh 3 fans permalink

Do all mayors in the US require a test of loyalty from the town librarian?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 09/09/2008
- odoreida I'm a Fan of odoreida 5 fans permalink

Most mayors don't retain appointees from previous administrations. Why do you insist that Palin be an exception to that rule?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:54 PM on 09/09/2008

Nobody's insisting anything except that the McCain campaign admit the documented fact that Palin attempted to fire this woman because she would not ban books. Instead they point to a fake list to obfuscate the whole issue, when the basic premise of the accusations are true.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 09/09/2008
- RG5626 I'm a Fan of RG5626 11 fans permalink
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Most mayors don't retain "political" appointees. I think in most towns, the librarian is not considered a political appointee.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 09/09/2008
- valleygent I'm a Fan of valleygent 24 fans permalink

Palin is a book burner!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 PM on 09/09/2008
- odoreida I'm a Fan of odoreida 5 fans permalink

Tell us, please, what books Palin has burned.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:54 PM on 09/09/2008
- zenlikejen I'm a Fan of zenlikejen 19 fans permalink
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Pshaw...what's with all the asking for 'proof' now?? I thought the idea was to make blind accusations and run with them like there's no tomorrow? It's the only reasonable explanation as to why I still run into the slow-thinkers who are STILL banging the Rev. Wright/Muslim drum......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 PM on 09/09/2008
- valleygent I'm a Fan of valleygent 24 fans permalink

Repeat after me... RADICAL CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALIST equals book burner. Ever hear of metaphor? Repubs use them regularly...but can't handle it when used against them. Ahh poor baby...Sarah Palin is a book burning card carrying radical.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 PM on 09/09/2008

The thing about Ms Palin is the more nutty she appears the more the nuts like her.

And don't forget, the Republicans invented the "creating our own reality" tactic. They are perfectinng it with the Palin candidacy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 PM on 09/09/2008
- vulvina I'm a Fan of vulvina 4 fans permalink
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i am nuts and i love her for her entertainment value. but she should never hold a higher office.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:23 PM on 09/09/2008
- aege8th I'm a Fan of aege8th 4 fans permalink

I'm eating her up with a spoon! I've never watched a soap opera in my life, nor reality TV or any or nighttime soaps either....but this story is mesmerizing! I was up til 3am last night trolling the blogosphere! True, some of the stories may be false (or red herrings) but ultimately, you cannot deny that she's a right wing nut job who, like McCain will say anything and do anything to perpetuate her own "narrative." No wonder he feels she's his "soul mate." Wonder how long it'l be before those two have an affair??? (If he hadn't met her just the once, I'd suspect they were already having one!)

I would LOVE to see the GOP hoisted by their own petard, unfortuntely, McC and O are pretty much neck and neck. It makes me sad to realize that half my compatriots fall for/support this BS, but I guess statistically, half the population is of below average intelligence.

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a Republican. But I repeat myself." - Harry Truman

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 PM on 09/09/2008

4 Reasons Democrats have everything to gain from the rise of
Sara Palin in National Politics.

AND

4 Reasons Democrats & Obama Campaign should praise
Sara Palin for being a 'DO-GOODER' politician.

http://www.e-paperview.com/4reasons.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 PM on 09/09/2008
- Chillinout I'm a Fan of Chillinout 125 fans permalink
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Tr0ll spammer

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:22 PM on 09/09/2008
- DaOne I'm a Fan of DaOne 45 fans permalink
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Protect me from books...................

Don't you worry, your small insular mind does that for you............

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 AM on 09/09/2008
- Kerris I'm a Fan of Kerris 3 fans permalink

Okay, I checked out the list. Did anyone for even a second think the Wasilla library even had that many books?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:50 AM on 09/09/2008
- odoreida I'm a Fan of odoreida 5 fans permalink

How do they manage to take time out from their guns and religion to open a book?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:55 PM on 09/09/2008
- NeoStar9 I'm a Fan of NeoStar9 15 fans permalink

The list might be fake but the woman was still fired. People still came to her support. The event did happen and it still needs to be explained.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 AM on 09/09/2008
- DuPageDem I'm a Fan of DuPageDem 23 fans permalink

Oh, no, see, that's not how it works. You put out straw-man bait, then discredit the bait, then claim the issue is off the table. Just ask Dan Rather. The fake list probably came from Karl Rove.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:12 PM on 09/09/2008
- odoreida I'm a Fan of odoreida 5 fans permalink

She wasn't fired. Everybody was sacked and Palin rehired the librarian the next day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 PM on 09/09/2008
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Sure. After Palin's petty, vindictive point was made. Spare me from people like this. Can we PLEASE get back to these issues?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:25 PM on 09/09/2008

What on earth would the lovely MsSarah want to ban books for? Does she read? Of course she reads the bible, it seems to be her major reference. Did she read the part on adultery? John McCain is a wonderful example of adultery. Don't tell me John sinned forty years ago and should be forgiven. John and Bill, both wonderful examples of loving dads.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:35 AM on 09/09/2008

For a bible reader she sure lies a lot.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:14 PM on 09/09/2008

What makes you think that these kind of "Christians" actually read the bible?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 PM on 09/09/2008
- odoreida I'm a Fan of odoreida 5 fans permalink

Instead of reading blogs and scurrilous emails, why don't you just insist that all candidates take a Wasserman test? That ought to satisfy your weird, prurient interest in politics.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 09/09/2008
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"A mom being concerned about what kind of books our kids read and asking rhetorical questions about what can legally be done to protect them? What's wrong with that?"

wow. so she thinks kids need to be protected from BOOKS? i don't care what my kid reads and i don't want somebody else deciding what she can and can't read. narrow minded-ness is not an attractive quality.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 AM on 09/09/2008
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This was the statement that hit me the hardest, too.

As a mother, I can make these choices for my kids, not EVERYONE'S kids.

Abusing your position to tell all kids what they can and can't read is unacceptable.

Keep your hands off of our books, Palin.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:41 AM on 09/09/2008
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And stay out of our Ob/Gyn offices, too. You made your choice - you have no right to think you can choose for other women. Sad thing - this only becomes such a hot bed of discussion during election time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 PM on 09/09/2008
- laocoon I'm a Fan of laocoon 30 fans permalink

Removing books means adults cannot read them. Restricting certain age groups is different but should not be done by a sole dictator- there should be broad input and there is the odd question she asked about "what if" there were demonstrations. those who want to see no evil wont see any evil but I dont feel obliged to cover my own eyes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 PM on 09/09/2008

"A mom being concerned about what kind of books our kids read and asking rhetorical questions about what can legally be done to protect them? What's wrong with that?"

The logical answer to this question proposed by a Republican hack rests within the question itself. It's the responsibility of "mom's" and parents to determine what their children should or shouldn't be reading, not the government. Get the heck out of the dictating what I as a citizen should be reading. Palin's plot to attempt to replace the librarian with one of her own was foiled. It's obvious she desired to ban books that didn't meet with the far right wing Christian good house of approval. This woman is dangerous people, and we have to stand up in greater numbers than support her so she can be sent back north to Alaska...we they can have her as far as I'm concerned. Palin/McCain, no way, no how, not in this lifetime!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 AM on 09/09/2008

She wants to tell us what our kids should read
She wants to tell women what to do with our bodies
She wants to talk crap about people who work in poor communities to help them find jobs
She wants to fly in a copter' and shoot wolves
She left a town of 6500 with 20 million in debt, when she took the office the town had none
She fires people for personal reasons
She doesn't believe the only thing my kid should learn about sex is to not have any (that always works ask Bristol)

Wow, she's female, and she's cool and she's pretty, I'm voting for Jmac/Pit Bull 08!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:19 PM on 09/09/2008

How about a book by David Duke on the Jews?

lol

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 PM on 09/09/2008
- fivecard I'm a Fan of fivecard 6 fans permalink

I think it's time for Palin to start doing sit-down interviews--say, with David Gregory--so that she can clear up this book-banning business....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 AM on 09/09/2008
- wdw101 I'm a Fan of wdw101 20 fans permalink

she will pick the venue and time......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 AM on 09/09/2008
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No - the time will be picked for her with someone who will soft ball the questions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:07 PM on 09/09/2008
- jupitor I'm a Fan of jupitor 2 fans permalink

She did fire the librarian, and she did want certain books removed and than said this lady didn't support her views to fire her! tha city surrounded this lady and fought for her job!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:16 AM on 09/09/2008
- odoreida I'm a Fan of odoreida 5 fans permalink

"She did fire the librarian, and she did want certain books removed"

None of that is true, and repeating it won't make it true. It will only make you look like you don't care what kind of hogwash you post.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 PM on 09/09/2008
- jupitor I'm a Fan of jupitor 2 fans permalink

This woman is a ticking time bomb of fireing everyone who doesn't agree with her believes, or can't live up to her idea's! She is going to be the next president, because she's going to black mail Mccain for telling so many lies about her after they are in office.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 AM on 09/09/2008
- odoreida I'm a Fan of odoreida 5 fans permalink

I hope you are as indignant when Obama -- assuming he gets elected -- fires Bush's cabinet and appoints all new people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:58 PM on 09/09/2008

I'm sorry please the Obama campaign should insist on her answering the question if it is Gods will that the Repubs win? I mean the war, the pipeline, all God's will according to her, so if it is God's will and God is so powerful then why do they need to even campaign? Furthermore, if they are God's agents then answer this:
Who's will are the Dems representing....go on answer that......PLEASE

Don't people with faith believed that God is here for everyone in equal measure, and that God speaks for all of us,? Yet she is suggesting that she speaks for GOD? Why is this not being hammered, this is scary loonytunes stuff...oh and does McCain believe it too?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 AM on 09/09/2008
- wdw101 I'm a Fan of wdw101 20 fans permalink

the devil that is why the spelling should be demon-crats

wacko

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:11 AM on 09/09/2008
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 230 fans permalink

Projecting again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 AM on 09/09/2008
- DeniseD I'm a Fan of DeniseD 26 fans permalink

The Republicans act like they are God's little soldiers. They really should ask themselves WWJD? From the way they are running their campaign they either don't remember Jesus' teachings or they have conveniently forgotten them. I don't think Jesus would be pleased with all of the lies and name calling coming out of the McCain camp and his Republican supporters.

Banning books goes against the Constitution. I want a President who follows the law and upholds the Constitution. Who better to do that than someone with a law degree from Harvard and who taught Constitutional law at University of Chicago?
Obama/Biden '08

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 AM on 09/09/2008
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I am not a Christian - I am a Nichiren Buddhist. People have the right to decide for themselves what philosphy makes sense for them. I don't believe there is a god who pulls strings or who chooses which side to support and who gets involved in things like pipelines, etc. Your philosophy should give you the strength to change the negatives in your own life and turn them around to bring you happiness. In other wrods - it's a personal thing. It shouldn't be used to win elections. It's only been very recently that politicians have had to continually say in the media what devote Christians they are. Being a Christian doesn't make you a good person - in fact - for some people - it seems to give them permission to be hateful. I don't understand why people want to do that. Many Christians are like that. I don't know any Buddhist who are. It's sad when people use their religion like that - although I realize that not all do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:17 PM on 09/09/2008

No. Jewish God not same. Muslim God not same.

lol

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:23 PM on 09/09/2008
- NTO08 I'm a Fan of NTO08 19 fans permalink

The innuendo mill is getting a little whacko...why are Obama's fans so obsessed about her?
They launched the same level of smears on Hillary, rehashing ancient, idiotic Repub lies and embellishing them with new nitwit insults. It only served to alienate a lot of women...smart money would say to cut the crap and focus in on her policies and stands on substantive issues, not ridiculously moronic stuff.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:02 AM on 09/09/2008
- vsign I'm a Fan of vsign 34 fans permalink

I don't think they can help themselves. It seems that O supporters on here do insults and innuendos and obsessive smears about women with little thought of the consequences.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 AM on 09/09/2008
- jupitor I'm a Fan of jupitor 2 fans permalink

No, we are scared to death this inexperienced woman is a heart beat away from running this country, and can't even side with womens rights, or the rights to have equal pay for women!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 AM on 09/09/2008

You said "women with little thought".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 AM on 09/09/2008
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Have you read any conservative blogs lately?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:19 PM on 09/09/2008
- DeniseD I'm a Fan of DeniseD 26 fans permalink

The truth is Palin tried to have books banned from the library and fired the librarian when she wouldn't submit to her requests (she asked her 3 different times). The librarian was reinstated when the citizens fought for her job.

The email list is what was the fraud, not the fact that Gov. Palin tried to get books banned. This is truly scary stuff.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 AM on 09/09/2008
- wdw101 I'm a Fan of wdw101 20 fans permalink

what books?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 AM on 09/09/2008
- odoreida I'm a Fan of odoreida 5 fans permalink

"The truth is Palin tried to have books banned from the library and fired the librarian when she wouldn't submit to her requests (she asked her 3 different times)."

The truth is that she didn't do any of those things. See: http://www.newsweek.com/id/157986

Reposting this isn't going to change it from a lie to a fact. Not everybody is as gullible as you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 PM on 09/09/2008

This is baseball I'm not a fan I'm a supporter because I care what happens to this Country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 PM on 09/09/2008
- odoreida I'm a Fan of odoreida 5 fans permalink

"The innuendo mill is getting a little whacko...why are Obama's fans so obsessed about her?"

Because he's spiraling downwards in the polls, and they're worried sick that he's going to lose in November.

Of course, their frantic lies aren't helping their situation. By propagating this crap, they're setting themselves up for a further debunking.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:09 PM on 09/09/2008

Everyone should be careful before spreading rumors about Palin that turn out to be false. Check out www.newsweek.com/id/157986. In my office every time one of these rumors is proved false, it makes the dems look petty.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 AM on 09/09/2008
- plooger I'm a Fan of plooger 15 fans permalink

Yeah, but how do the muslim & unpatriotic smears against Obama come across? And how about all the lies being spread about Obama?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 09/09/2008
- odoreida I'm a Fan of odoreida 5 fans permalink

Are you saying that that makes it okay to deliberately lie about Palin?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:10 PM on 09/09/2008

If you read the article, you see that the basic premise of these "rumors" is true. No, there was no specific list of banned books, but she asked three times whether some books could be banned, and when the librarian refused, she tried to have her fired. Are you deliberately trying to obfuscate the issue?

And when you say "unsubstantiated rumors" of this kind make the democrats look petty, how then do you judge the "muslim baby-killer who refuses to pledge allegiance to the flag" accusations that are leveled at Obama from the McCain camp?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 09/09/2008

Furthermore, your link leads to nothing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 PM on 09/09/2008
- odoreida I'm a Fan of odoreida 5 fans permalink
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:04 PM on 09/09/2008
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And what about all the lies the Reps have spread?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:20 PM on 09/09/2008
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