AP's Debate Factcheck: Kissinger, Ahmadinejad, And More

WASHINGTON — Some facts got lost when Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain confronted each other over the financial crisis, Iraq, the oil industry and more in the first presidential debate of the 2008 general election.

Here are examples:

OBAMA: "Senator McCain mentioned Henry Kissinger, who is one of his advisers, who along with five recent secretaries of state just said we should meet with Iran _ guess what? _ without preconditions."

MCCAIN: "Dr. Kissinger did not say that he would approve face-to-face meetings between the president of the United States and (Iranian President Mahmoud) Ahmadinejad. He did not say that. He said there could be secretary-level and lower-level meetings. I've always encouraged that."

THE FACTS: Obama was right that Kissinger called for meetings without preconditions. McCain was right that Kissinger did not call for such meetings to be between the two presidents.

In a foreign policy forum Saturday, Kissinger said: "I am in favor of negotiating with Iran." He went on to say "I actually have preferred doing it at the secretary of state level" and the U.S. should go into the talks with "a clear understanding of what is it we're trying to prevent. What is it going to do if we can't achieve what we're talking about? But I do not believe that we can make conditions for the opening of negotiations. We ought, however, to be very clear about the content of negotiations and work it out with other countries and with our own government."

OBAMA: "John, you want to give oil companies another $4 billion" in tax breaks.

THE FACTS: The $4 billion in tax breaks for the oil companies is simply part of McCain's overall corporate tax reduction plan and does not represent an additional tax benefit. In other words, the corporate tax reduction applies to all corporations, oil companies included. Both Obama and McCain have proposed eliminating oil and gas tax loopholes.

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MCCAIN: "I've been criticized because I called for the resignation of the chairman of the Securities and Exchange commission."

THE FACT: McCain did eventually call for the resignation of SEC Chairman Christopher Cox. But he first said that if he were president he would fire him, a step a president cannot take with the head of an independent regulatory agency. This is what McCain said on Sept. 18 during a rally in Iowa: "The chairman of the SEC serves at the appointment of the president and, in my view, has betrayed the public's trust. If I were president today, I would fire him."

OBAMA: Said he would make sure that the health care system "allows everyone to have basic coverage."

THE FACTS: If that sounds like universal health coverage, it's not. Obama picked his words carefully _ stopping short of claiming outright that his plan provides health care for all. He promises to make health insurance affordable but would only require that children have coverage, not adults. Estimates of how many would remain without insurance vary. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said during the primaries that Obama's plan would leave 15 million people uninsured.

MCCAIN: "We had an energy bill before the United States Senate. It was festooned with Christmas tree ornaments. It had all kinds of breaks for the oil companies, I mean, billions of dollars worth. I voted against it; Senator Obama voted for it."

THE FACTS: Obama did vote for a 2005 energy bill supported by President Bush that included billions in subsidies for oil and natural gas production. McCain opposed the bill on grounds it included unnecessary tax breaks for the oil industry. Obama voted to strip the legislation of the oil and gas industry tax breaks. When that failed, he voted for the overall measure. Obama has said he supported the legislation because it provided money for renewable energy.

OBAMA: "We're also going to have to look at, how is it that we shredded so many regulations? We did not set up a 21st-century regulatory framework to deal with these problems. And that in part has to do with an economic philosophy that says that regulation is always bad."

THE FACTS: Some of the abuses that occurred stemmed from the 1999 repeal of a Depression-era law that separated banks from brokerages. In legislation supported by former President Clinton and Robert Rubin, now a top Obama adviser and Treasury secretary in the Clinton administration, this separation was ended _ allowing banks and insurance companies to sell securities.

But while regular banks were strictly regulated by the government, Wall Street banks and other non-bank institutions _ many of the same institutions whose abuses led to the current crisis _ were allowed to operate with less regulation.

MCCAIN: McCain said Obama voted to cut off money for the troops in Iraq.

THE FACTS: Despite opposing the war, Obama has, with one exception, voted for Iraq troop financing. In 2007, he voted against a troop funding bill because it did not contain language calling for a troop withdrawal. The Illinois senator backed another bill that had such language _ and money for the troops.

MCCAIN: In a discussion of how the government could shrink spending, he said: "Look, we are sending $700 billion a year overseas to countries that don't like us very much."

The comment echoes one he made in his acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention earlier this month, when he was talking about money the U.S. spends on foreign oil. FactCheck.org says the U.S. this year is on track to spend $536 billion on imported oil _ not $700 billion _ and nearly one-third of that comes from friendly nations: Canada, Mexico and Britain.

MCCAIN: "Senator Obama twice said in debates he would sit down with Ahmadinejad, (Venezuelan President Hugo) Chavez and (Cuban President) Raul Castro without precondition."

OBAMA: "Now, understand what this means, 'without preconditions.' It doesn't mean that you invite them over for tea one day. ... There's a difference between preconditions and preparation. Of course we've got to do preparations, starting with low-level diplomatic talks, and it may not work, because Iran is a rogue regime."

THE FACTS: Obama was asked in a July 2007 debate whether he would be willing to meet "without precondition" with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Cuba and other rogue nations. Obama replied, "I would," adding that it was ridiculous to think that America is punishing such nations by refusing to speak with them. Time and again since then he has been forced to defend the statement, both by Democrats during the primaries and by Republicans.

Obama has tried to draw a distinction between a precondition and preparation. He has argued that he wouldn't demand that a foreign leader give in on some fundamental issue before the two sides met to discuss the dispute. But he has said "preparations" would require diplomatic contacts to gauge whether a formal meeting would be useful and to lay the groundwork for those talks

MCCAIN: Defending his call for Cox's resignation, McCain said the country has lost the sense of accountability exemplified by Allied commander Dwight Eisenhower on the eve of D-Day. He said Eisenhower wrote one letter to be released in the event of victory, which praised the troops, "and he wrote out another letter, and that was a letter of resignation from the United States Army for the failure of the landings at Normandy."

THE FACTS: Eisenhower prepared to take responsibility in the note to be delivered in the event of D-Day disaster but did not offer to resign.

The full text:

"Our landings in the Cherbourg-Le Havre area have failed to gain a satisfactory foothold and I have withdrawn the troops. My decision to attack at this time and place was based on the best information available. The troops, the air and the Navy did all that bravery and devotion to duty could do. If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt, it is mine alone."

___

Associated Press Writers Tom Raum, Lolita Baldor and Anne Gearan contributed to this report.

Comments

[Bitsko]

As for the Kissinger reference, Senator 0bama was totally right. He never mentioned the president in his comment.

[timberdoodle]

It doesn't matter who said what but rather what is important is McCain's position that these countries have to agree to how America perceives they should run their affairs and that is never going to happen regardless of what country you are talking with period. One country just can't tell another country how they conduct their affairs or how they have to change their culture to American ideals. That is just dumb.

[Whinger]

Why not President to President, the buck stops there!

No point talking to an oil rag, better talking to the mechanic!

[StephCaster]

"THE FACTS: Obama was right that Kissinger called for meetings without preconditions. McCain was right that Kissinger did not call for such meetings to be between the two presidents."

In other words, Obama was right about the key fact at the center of the debate point. And McCain was right about the irrelevant and trivial point he was making, that no one disagreed about to begin with.

[AlphaDoc]

>McCain was right that Kissinger did not call for such meetings to be between the two presidents.<

McCain was right about what Kissinger said, but wrong about what Senator Obama said. His retort was yet another attempt to mislead.

>Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said during the primaries that Obama's plan would leave 15 million people uninsured.<

But with affordable healthcare available to them. Mandating healthcare for people who are on the edge financially, rather than letting them decide for themselves, is dangerous business.

>The Illinois senator backed another bill that had such language _ and money for the troops.<

And McCain voted against it. He did, however, vote for the bill which contained money for studying the DNA of bears . . . one of his favorite targets.

> Obama was asked in a July 2007 debate whether he would be willing to meet "without precondition" with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Cuba and other rogue nations.<

As Senator Obama has pointed out on many occasions, "leader" does not mean Ahmadinejad, who answers to the religious leaders in Iran.

[LesserOf2Evils]

The notion that Henry Kissinger's name was mentioned numerous times in the Presidential debate without the term "war criminal" shows just how completely detached from reality we've become.

[lapdogs]

Hey Kissinger,

What about this March 15, 2008 article from Bloomberg News titled...

Kissinger backs direct U.S. talks with Iran
http://deseretnews.com/article/content/mobile/1,5620,695261802,00.html?printView=true

[lapdogs]

http://deseretnews.com/article/content/mobile/1,5620,695261802,00.html?printView=true

[OlderBudWeiser]

Copy and paste the entire link and you find in black and white Kissinger agreed to talks with Iran.
Score: Obama!

McCain needs some intense Palin type education.

[Diogenis]

Ahh, he's too old to perform.

[rafael44]

Who cares about what a pompous war ciminal thinks.

[ssgman]

John McCain is for Sec of state level talks without preconditions? Since when? This AP fact check is bogus. Or the part where the article says Obama is trying to make a distinction between pre-conditions and preparations! W_T_F!! Is this Fournier writing under a pseudonym?

[shelobo]

Kissinger was known for his unusual quotes ,that defined his thoughts,actions and choices he made 'unwisely' at times when he was asked about his views concerning issues here are just a few : “Power is the great aphrodisiac.” “Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy.” “I can think of no faster way to unite the American people behind George W. Bush than a terrorist attack on an American target overseas. And I believe George W. Bush will quickly unite the American people through his foreign policy.” American imperialism:
“The US must carry out some act somewhere in the world which shows its determination to continue to be a world power.” on the constitution:
“The illegal we do immediately. on depopulation

“Depopulation should be the highest priority of foreign policy towards the third world, because the US economy will require large and increasing amounts of minerals from abroad, especially from less developed countries.” The unconstitutional takes a little longer.” This is the man they have 'educateing Palin ?

[shelobo]

I suppose we should remember how secretive Kissinger was when he served under Nixon.The younger generation of voters only know what the read or are told about the Kissinger and Nixon reign over our country.It wasn't untill AFTER kissinger left office that his secret meetings with foreign leaders became public knowledge.Kissingers 'policies' and how he met with leaders of Foreign countries and handled issues on his terms are in a database now some heavily edited .Our young voters should really read up on the past histories of these so called 'famous' trustworthy politicans,as that was and is all Kissinger is a POLITICAN .Everything in our history tends to come in full circle before it's all said and done,IF McCain manages to lie his way into keeping his job as a Bush supporter ,this country will NEVER move forward ,it will remain stalled in the 'OLD' political era of this country.Dropping Bombs,launching massive air attacks into other countries with out regard to the loss of INNOCENT lives that will be lost ,are NOT the answer to todays problems.It's time for the old 'Wardogs' to retire with dignity while we still have a country left http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB66//

[MsYellowDog]

I remember VERY WELL that Kissinger was a glory hog,who worked secretly most of the time...and also quite the political operative in Washington...I didn't respect or believe anything he said at the time,and certainly he has NOT gained knowledge with age.

[boogiewoman]

Keep your friends close and your enimies even closer.

[gakabani]

To follow HK plan of action is also pathetic. A war criminal like HK giving still advice to our future president makes me puke. It seems that many Americans still forgot how the US helped Pinochet murder Chilean President Salvador Allende in 1973 with the blessing of HK and material support of the CIA and US administration. The chickens are coming home to roost! If we continue to seed terrorism all over the world with our demoniacal foreign policy, terrorism will one day come home, and it did. It is a disease that does not recognize boundaries.

Remember Noriega, Hussein, the Sha, Pinochet, Somoza, Mubarak, Marcos, what about the Saudis? They were and some still are supported by the US government to exploit and repress their own people.

Do we need to support criminals to get what we want? So much for freedom.

[itschuck2c]

Ok folks go here for a better take on the facts of the debate.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_debate_no_1.html

[JubilationLeigh]

Thank you for the link. Interesting reading.

[jsob]

I have to disagree that McCain got it right about Kissinger not calling for “face-to-face meetings between the president of the United States and Ahmadinejad.” While this is literally correct, Kissinger did not, as McCain claims, say that such a meeting should not happen, but that he “preferred doing it [negotiating with Iran] at the secretary of state level.” Obama was absolutely correct that Kissinger said we should meet with Iran without preconditions. McCain’s response avoided that fact.

[itschuck2c]

Excuse me?? How can you disagree when Kissinger himself stated that yes John McCain was correct and agreed with John.

[JinChicago]

this is how...

Kissinger Sept. 20: Well, I am in favor of negotiating with Iran. And one utility of negotiation is to put before Iran our vision of a Middle East, of a stable Middle East, and our notion on nuclear proliferation at a high enough level so that they have to study it. And, therefore, I actually have preferred doing it at the secretary of state level so that we -- we know we're dealing with authentic...

CNN's Frank Sesno: Put at a very high level right out of the box?

Kissinger: Initially, yes.But I do not believe that we can make conditions for the opening of negotiations.

[kathy001]

Just because Kissinger lied about what he had previously said does not mean that we need to buy that lie. We have the transcripts of what Kissinger said.

[MHR55]

From Sept. 16 UPI:

Kissinger, speaking Monday at George Washington University along with four other former U.S. State Department secretaries, said the next president should initiate high-level discussions with Iran "without conditions," ABC News reported.

[metalpipe]

Not sure I like the inclusion of the Clinton era culpability in our present economic mess without including good old boy Phil Gramm and his butt buddy McCain. Not to mention the multitude of warnings our fearless leader George got (and ignored) from nearly every State govt's banking experts for the past three years is also a crime. The whole thing just reaks.

[ErnestineBass]

Most of us already know about Gramm's culpability.

Clinton's role in this deregulation nightmare continues to be swept under the rug.

Just sayin'...

[kathy001]

I am glad to see Clinton's role in deregulation being brought to the light of day. But I still think that Gramm's role and his influence on McCain needs to be hammered at every opportunity. There are still plenty of people that do not know this and they need to hear it from Obama in a very public manner. Last night's debate would have been the perfect place for it, I think.