Scientists Trace The Origin Of AIDS Virus

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MALCOLM RITTER | October 1, 2008 03:35 PM EST | AP

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NEW YORK — The AIDS virus has been circulating among people for about 100 years, decades longer than scientists had thought, a new study suggests. Genetic analysis pushes the estimated origin of HIV back to between 1884 and 1924, with a more focused estimate at 1908.

Previously, scientists had estimated the origin at around 1930. AIDS wasn't recognized formally until 1981 when it got the attention of public health officials in the United States.

The new result is "not a monumental shift, but it means the virus was circulating under our radar even longer than we knew," says Michael Worobey of the University of Arizona, an author of the new work.

The results appear in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature. Researchers note that the newly calculated dates fall during the rise of cities in Africa, and they suggest urban development may have promoted HIV's initial establishment and early spread.

Scientists say HIV descended from a chimpanzee virus that jumped to humans in Africa, probably when people butchered chimps. Many individuals were probably infected that way, but so few other people caught the virus that it failed to get a lasting foothold, researchers say.

But the growth of African cities may have changed that by putting lots of people close together and promoting prostitution, Worobey suggested. "Cities are kind of ideal for a virus like HIV," providing more chances for infected people to pass the virus to others, he said.

Perhaps a person infected with the AIDS virus in a rural area went to what is now Kinshasa, Congo, "and now you've got the spark arriving in the tinderbox," Worobey said.

Key to the new work was the discovery of an HIV sample that had been taken from a woman in Kinshasa in 1960. It was only the second such sample to be found from before 1976; the other was from 1959, also from Kinshasa.

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Researchers took advantage of the fact that HIV mutates rapidly. So two strains from a common ancestor quickly become less and less alike in their genetic material over time. That allows scientists to "run the clock backward" by calculating how long it would take for various strains to become as different as they are observed to be. That would indicate when they both sprang from their most recent common ancestor.

The new work used genetic data from the two old HIV samples plus more than 100 modern samples to create a family tree going back to these samples' last common ancestor. Researchers got various answers under various approaches for when that ancestor virus appeared, but the 1884-to-1924 bracket is probably the most reliable, Worobey said.

The new work is "clearly an improvement" over the previous estimate of around 1930, said Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in Bethesda, Md. His institute helped pay for the work.

Fauci described the advance as "a fine-tuning."

Experts say it's no surprise that HIV circulated in humans for about 70 years before being recognized. An infection usually takes years to produce obvious symptoms, a lag that can mask the role of the virus, and it would have infected relatively few Africans early in its spread, they said.

___

On the Net:

Nature: http://www.nature.com/nature

NEW YORK — The AIDS virus has been circulating among people for about 100 years, decades longer than scientists had thought, a new study suggests. Genetic analysis pushes the estimated origin of...
NEW YORK — The AIDS virus has been circulating among people for about 100 years, decades longer than scientists had thought, a new study suggests. Genetic analysis pushes the estimated origin of...
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I think.....

that an over-involved sense of detached irony is killing us all.

.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:41 PM on 10/02/2008
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For years - every year - the new york times, scientific american, the washington post, the la times and others have posted a new monkey theory on the origin of aids. Each one has dutifully presented it as fact because "everyone knows" AIDs originated from Africans eating, playing with or having sex with monkeys. Of course, thinking people don't question this - only conspiracy theorists. If you actually read the cited studies, their conclusions are drawn from mathematical projections, flawed or disputed and contradictory tests of genetic fragments backed by long cherished and seldom challenged assumptions of African behavior, the similarity of HIV to SIV (though Visna virus has more similarities) and previous research noting the same litanies. When are we going to actually base conclusions on hard evidence? The only undisputed earliest cases of AIDs or HIV are from Europeans and White Americans in the 1970s and 80s. Why are we not following those evidence trials back in time?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 PM on 10/02/2008
- DaOne I'm a Fan of DaOne 44 fans permalink
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This doesn't surprise me. Viruses, disease, organisms all develop over time. Given how complicated HIV seems to be it makes all the more sense that its origins may be much longer than previously thought.

Mind you I have some old fries from McDonalds sitting on the counter and they may very well pre-date the aids virus so who knows.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 PM on 10/02/2008
- bayside I'm a Fan of bayside 38 fans permalink
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I dont believe it..All the bribery in the world will not make be believe it..Not as gullibe as I used to be..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 AM on 10/02/2008
- ProFromOre I'm a Fan of ProFromOre 8 fans permalink

Here is an interesting perspective on the cause of many of the diseases that have been labeled "AIDS". It'll make you think.

http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/hiv/sblubejob.htm

abridged excerpt from the above article:
"in 1906 Harvey Wiley, the founder of the FDA, conducted experiments on people (with permission) trying to determine the harmful effects. Upon repeated introduction of small, concentrated amounts of benzoate: night sweats, fever, muscle loss, anorexia, lymph swelling, etc.. The same symtoms of AIDS, TOS, SMON, CFS, illicit drug use, and other benzene-induced conditions.

Dr. Wiley testified before congress that the use of benzoic acid, boric acid, salicylates, and cinnamic aldehyde (found in "hot" lubricants) would be disastrous and even succeeded in banning them for a few years. Unfortunately, due to economic and political pressures from food and petrochemical companies, Dr. Wiley was overruled and expelled from the FDA, which he founded.

Dr. Wiley's ominous prediction in his book that serious epidemics arising from the use of these chemicals would occur in the future. Today, we have benzoic acid (or sodium benzoate, benzoate of soda, methylparaben, propylparaben, or paraben) added to all sorts of foods and drinks as a preservative. It is also found in another product almost exclusively used by the gay community: lubricants. "

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 AM on 10/02/2008
- Krackonis I'm a Fan of Krackonis 6 fans permalink

"Aids is a Socia-Political imposition". The directing of and killing of certain undesirable classes happen in WW2 and just 20 years alter they invent a drug to do what gassing could not do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 PM on 10/02/2008
- RumiSouth I'm a Fan of RumiSouth 34 fans permalink
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You people are worse than creationists.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:54 PM on 10/02/2008
- RumiSouth I'm a Fan of RumiSouth 34 fans permalink
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Seriously?! It's the LUBRICANTS and not the VIRUS?! You expect me to believe this nonsense?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:55 PM on 10/02/2008
- KitWit I'm a Fan of KitWit 2 fans permalink

100 years? Didn't dinosaurs exist then?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:32 AM on 10/02/2008

Only in Wasilla, Alaska.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 AM on 10/02/2008

they are lying... trying to look for excuses. AIDS is from the lab targetting a specific group (people) 's genes

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:00 AM on 10/02/2008

And dinosaurs roamed the earth 5000 years ago, the earth is flat, climate change is a vast conspiracy by scientists to bankrupt the US and Katrina was an act of God to punish the debauchery of New Orleans. Yea, we have heard it all before from those like Hannity, promoting their agenda of ignorance, intolerance and greed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:47 AM on 10/02/2008
- RumiSouth I'm a Fan of RumiSouth 34 fans permalink
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There are NO genes specially susceptible to HIV. That's pure, unadulterated male cow poop.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 PM on 10/02/2008
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With the population bomb exploding and resources around the world dwindling how exactly does disease treatment aid in the continuation of the species? Does survival of the fittest have any meaning in today's interventionist world?

Just though I would ask.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:00 AM on 10/02/2008
- Dynamohum I'm a Fan of Dynamohum 59 fans permalink

Obviously someone who has never been afflicted with chronic illness. The interventionist part is probably because there is HUGE money in it. Charity and goodwill maybe a smidgen, but mostly greed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:03 AM on 10/02/2008
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Wrong! You tell me your chronic diseases and I will tell you mine.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 PM on 10/02/2008
- glesslib I'm a Fan of glesslib 24 fans permalink

Then don't take an antibiotic the next time you get a strep throat or pneumonia. Survival of the fittest and interventionism, you know.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:14 AM on 10/02/2008

Your question could be clearer. Do you mean survival of the fittest gene (which, if your thinking in evolutionary terms is the only thing you can mean)? If that is the case then in the context of the above article you would be looking at the survival of something like 1 in every hundreds of millions of people, as the gene for HIV resistance is extremely rare. Also, the continuation of the human species is of no more or less importance than the survival of any other species. We will eventually go extinct. In the meantime I think I would err on the side of relieving and preventing suffering, rather than cling to the idea that there is a pre-ordained narrative to existence and label arbitrary actions I disagree with as interventionist.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 PM on 10/02/2008
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There is no preordained narrative to life. The possibilities are unlimited. However a population of less than two billion is the magic number. Population will crash!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 10/02/2008

My dear Doug77, a succinct and rational explication. Little else remains to be said.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:07 PM on 10/02/2008

So does this mean that Patient zero, you remember the gay guy from Montreal Canada who was labelled the first carrier for sleeping with monkeys in Africa, is actually not patient 0.

Does this also mean that AIDS is in fact not a gay disease at all but the result of bush meat eating carnivours?

Guess that puts a damper on all the BS that has been circulating over the past 30 years.

Of course that is if you actually believe all of this article as well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:32 AM on 10/02/2008

In the early 1980s, I was a student at Mississippi State University. As an art major, I was taking a figure drawing class taught by a particularly racist young European American professor, who is now deceased. While the students were sketching a model, he was incessantly ranting at his "captive audience" about the evil Haitian immigrant "boat people" who, according to him, were infiltrating our country like cockroaches and infecting our entire population with AIDS. Most of us sat there and listened to this toxic garbage, unwillng to take a stand by complaining about him -- an act which would surely have resulted in our being targeted with harassment and persecution by the tightly wound clique of the art professors.

Later, this same professor publicly made an insulting remark about Native Americans, and since he was thus targeting my people, I openly and publicly complain about the man to this day, with no qualms whatsoever. Unfortunately, when I post my complaints, the powers-that-be at MSU will often delete my writings about him, censoring the information under the false belief that we live under a fascist regime. Truly disgusting behavior on their part, all the way around.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:23 AM on 10/02/2008

Let me get this straight, you were intimidated by art professors?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:53 AM on 10/02/2008

Upon weaving my way through your PC euphemisms "European American" (the guy was white), I managed to piece together what was really going on there.
Your homosexual art professor, who was stricken with AIDS as a result of his repetitious engagement in so do my, was in deep denial and shifting the blame to the Haitians. Subsequently, he fl amed out from the disease. Your perception was correct. Had you taken a stand and complained about him, the other homosexual art professors would have made your life unbearable. Hell hath no fury......­....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 AM on 10/02/2008

Hopefully he died a horible death from AIDS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 PM on 10/02/2008

I can't wait to hear you guys tell us exactly who brought the WTC down...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:38 AM on 10/02/2008
- Krackonis I'm a Fan of Krackonis 6 fans permalink

They have mirrors in the Oval Office...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:30 PM on 10/02/2008
- cjk002 I'm a Fan of cjk002 33 fans permalink
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Don't these guys know that the religious fundamentalists figured this one out years ago?

God created AIDS to punish gay people!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 PM on 10/01/2008

I'm gay and I figured that one out...than­k you fundamentalists! You opened my eyes...now I am only 100% gay instead of 150% gay!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 AM on 10/02/2008
- janinei I'm a Fan of janinei 13 fans permalink
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now was this a hard choice? I have been considering the gay life style, well, because I am bored.... want to feel a part of the counter culture and shunned, it just sounds like so much fun! ;-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 PM on 10/02/2008
- zanbama I'm a Fan of zanbama 13 fans permalink
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Are you a dum-dum or something.­.....becau­se AIDS affects heterosexuals as well. You don't know how GOD is punishing anyone, because you are not on his level. I lost many friends some gay some married with children SO DON"T SAY THINGS YOU DON"T KNOW and try to belittle people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:23 AM on 10/02/2008
- glesslib I'm a Fan of glesslib 24 fans permalink

I believe that statement was meant to be ironic. No one with two brain cells rubbing together actually believes that God sends plagues to punish people. And you are correct, AID infection goes across all lines. This man is mocking the fundamentalists who have such hurtful beliefs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:21 AM on 10/02/2008
- JBS I'm a Fan of JBS 19 fans permalink
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Sarcasm.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:38 AM on 10/02/2008

Relax, zanypoo, before you have a coronary. Our little friend cjk was being sarcastic. What with the fetish that liberals have for satire and irony, nothing cracks me up quite like when one of you fails to recognize it and goes flying off on a rant.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 AM on 10/02/2008
- WorldGriot I'm a Fan of WorldGriot 10 fans permalink
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I am not a scientist but today I heard a phenomenal press conference by Gary Null that gave some very impressive information regarding Robert Gallo and the HIV/AIDS nexus. Janine Roberts talked about her book on how Gallo Knew that HIV was NOT connected to AIDS and that the industry continues to pursue this even though the fast majority of AIDS cases DO NOT possess the HIV virus and most HIV carriers never develop AIDS. Here is a place to listen to the debate which I find provocative. http://www.prncomm.net/PRNindex.php . Here is a list of those who support this question as to whether HIV causes AIDS. Don't be political here and don't take this as my position; just do as our constitution allows and approach this with an open mind and pass the word to those much more qualified to examine it. http://www.gnhealth.com/doubters_list.html . What I find astonishing is that this particular article appears on the same day of the press conference denying that HIV causes AIDS. Something is afoot and I don't know what but I am thoroughly intrigued by the debate. keep it alive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:59 PM on 10/01/2008
- suec03 I'm a Fan of suec03 11 fans permalink

As I recall, even the 1993 HBO movie of Randy Shilts "And the Band Played On" made note of Robert Gallo's contrary theory. In it Dr. Gallo was pursuing another lead that led to a dead end. Is there something new here?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:57 AM on 10/02/2008
- Krackonis I'm a Fan of Krackonis 6 fans permalink

Look up Aids Theory, Gallo and Merck/Litton on Youtube. A few clicks and you will be looking at this article going "Flipping liars!"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 PM on 10/02/2008

The US Special Virus Cancer Program is the origin of the Aids virus. Gallo worked there before 'discovering' hiv. This whole hiv doesnt cause aids crap is disinfo to keep people from discovering the truth.

or maybe they just spent more money than on the Manhattan project to create tens of thousands of gallons of cancer virus that they never needed to use because by chance nature makes the same stuff and starts infecting blacks and gays???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:03 AM on 10/02/2008
- RumiSouth I'm a Fan of RumiSouth 34 fans permalink
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"This whole hiv doesnt cause aids crap is disinfo to keep people from discovering the truth."

I'm copying this comment to put in my paranoia museum.

It's a classic example of competing conspiracies obeying Osborne's Third Law of Paranoia: THEY are ALL in it TOGETHER, with "THEY" being anyone but the individual theorist, not exclusive of all other theorists.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:05 PM on 10/02/2008
- darthdarcy I'm a Fan of darthdarcy 48 fans permalink
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Start in Langley Virginia..­.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:55 PM on 10/01/2008
- Yuma I'm a Fan of Yuma 3 fans permalink
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CIA?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:16 PM on 10/01/2008
- darthdarcy I'm a Fan of darthdarcy 48 fans permalink
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Tell no one of this...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:12 AM on 10/02/2008

I totally agree with mytake! There was a great documentary on the CBC (canadian broadcasting corporation) about the origin of aids. It points a lot to human faults especially with polio testing in the 50s!

Its weird when stars and the beautiful people parade around sponsoring million dollar events for the cure for aids, when according to fact there is never a cure for a virus. Viruses don't just die off, they're always inside you. The campaigning never says "billion dollar black tie dinner for famous people for the PREVENTION of aids," rather for a cure.What a perfect viral weapon to attack blacks (africa), the poor and disenfranchised, and in the beginning the homosexuals.

No one has ever died from AIDS either, they have died from another disease. There have been swarms of people especially in the 80s-90s who died from aids-related heart attacks, which are never caused by the virus but the medication.

Also, the western blotter test, if proven positive must be tested at least two times more to prevent a false positive, which is done in the west. In africa the WHO sponsors just one test and it is proven that a few diseases come up positive on the first blotter test, i.e. malaria.

Im too tired to mention my sources but there was a very well written article in rolling stone in the 90s on this, and a few others, all were written in or reported by respectable news sources.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 PM on 10/01/2008
- Dynamohum I'm a Fan of Dynamohum 59 fans permalink

That's right, just rant and rave, that'll always solve problems. You are just a corncucopia of misinformation!! Many viruses have been brought under control or blocked by vaccines. Ever heard of polio? heard of chicken pox? heard of ppd? heard of tetanus? heard of hepatitis?

While there is not cure for viruses, there are vaccines that, when given to a person, their immune system builds up antibodies to the virus, and that means natural immunity when actually exposed to said viruses.

Once HIV destroys a persons immune system and their T4 cells fall below 200 (normal 1000-1200), couple with OPPORTUNISTIC INFECTIONS, yields an AIDS diagnosis. Technically you are right no one dies from AIDS, people die from complications of AIDS (no immune system left).

Having lived with it for 25+ years, and AIDS for 14, I can say that the medicines HELP prolong life. You are correct that many of the medications taken long term cause side effects in some individuals, like heart attacks, high cholesterol, lipodystrophy, lipoatrophy, diabetes and a host of tother ailments. Now, with medication life if prolonged, for if a person took none, the disease would progress and they would die much more quickly, then with someone on meds.

No one is holding out for a cure, most scientists are looking for a vaccine, Viruses cannot be cured. Tryiing to scare people into believing that testing doesn't work is just plain wrong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 AM on 10/02/2008
- jfh I'm a Fan of jfh 8 fans permalink

western blotter test???

it is western blot test.

if you can NOT correctly name the test, why should we believe the rest of your rant is correct?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:05 AM on 10/02/2008
- ProFromOre I'm a Fan of ProFromOre 8 fans permalink

Mis-stating blot with blotter doesn't negate someone's argument. If you don't agree with him, say why. If you believe it's inaccurate, then state so and prove it.

YOU don't do anything to contribute to the conversation or disprove him by nitpicking about a test name and proclaim they're "ranting".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:24 PM on 10/02/2008
- blooddoc I'm a Fan of blooddoc 8 fans permalink
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To use the old cliche, let's not bandy semantics here. Whether you die from pneumocystis, or lymphoma, or Kaposi's sarcoma, an AIDS patient is still dead and HIV was the root cause. In diagnosis, you use the tools you have at hand, and right now that is the ELISA and Western Blot analyses, which actually correlate very well with clinical findings. In medicine, you will always wind up treating a number of people who don't need treatment it to get to the people that do, and outside of viral load testing, there is no test that accurately tells you if an HIV+ patient might be able to avoid drug treatment. Vaccine development will be difficult because, as noted, this virus mutates so quickly. We have a long way to go.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:07 PM on 10/02/2008
- ProFromOre I'm a Fan of ProFromOre 8 fans permalink

I was surprised to read research that states benzoic acid can cause Karposi's sarcoma. (see my post above for a reference to the article.)

There's also research that ties a blood storage preservative to pneumocystis.

I find it interesting to hear natural medicine viewpoints and see how different they are. My education and training is based upon the traditional medicine view, so there's been many times I've been VERY surprised.

TO give you one example, since her teens, my wife has had a long term diagnosis of psoriasis. After years of frustration, some one suggested she see a Washington naturopath in her 30's. In a short period of time, he determined she most likely had a potato allergy. She works hard to keep potato out of her diet and when she is successful, the 'psoriasis' like symptoms disappear.

The biggest challenge is removing vitamin A palmitate from her diet. It is a common preservative used in ALL low-fat and non-fat milk products.

There are thousands of chemicals we ingest that NO ONE really knows what the long term effect of ingesting them will be. The chemicals haven't been around that long.

I'm not saying I'm sold on the idea that HIV & AIDS symptoms are definitively caused by certain chemicals, but when you look at the accepted 'causation proof', it isn't that definitive either. Someday we'll learn what the true relationships between chemical ingestion and certain diseases. Then our grandchildren & great-grandchildren can snicker about our ignorance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:19 PM on 10/02/2008
- MyTake I'm a Fan of MyTake 32 fans permalink
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Right on, yet more disinformation on that genetically surface polished virus molecule that the white blood cells cannot lock onto to eliminate it.

The authors of his article should check in with Dr.'s Gallo and Kawalski who worked in the U.S. biological warfare lab at Fort Detrick and brought that chimp virus molecule into human biology.

The would also do well to check the inner records of the Rockefeller University laboratories for a guiding light since David Rockefeller is a major sponsor of global depopulation. Here he is in action before some UN committee: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=ClqUcScwnn8. At his age, he should be retired or placed in jail for all the crimes that he has sponsored in his adult life time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:54 PM on 10/01/2008
- Dynamohum I'm a Fan of Dynamohum 59 fans permalink

No more conspiracy theories PLEASE!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 AM on 10/02/2008
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