Rachel Maddow, Pat Buchanan TV's New Odd Couple

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DAVID BAUDER | October 5, 2008 12:32 PM EST | AP

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In this image released by MSNBC, Rachel Maddow from MSNBC's "The Rachel Maddow Show," is shown on Sept. 23, 2008. (AP Photo/ MSNBC, Ali Goldstein)

NEW YORK — At 19, Rachel Maddow shared a house with friends in Philadelphia and wasn't paying much attention to the 1992 Republican National Convention on television until Pat Buchanan took to the podium.

She was transfixed. Buchanan's combative conservative speech, which denounced gay rights, was a milestone for people on two sides of a political divide. Either a call to arms or intolerant, depending on your point of view, it couldn't be ignored.

"Pat's culture war speech at the Republican convention hit me right between the eyes," said Maddow, MSNBC's new star and a lesbian. "He was, without euphemism, declaring that my own country was at war with me. I get it intellectually and strategically now, but at 19, I only got it emotionally."

So there's a certain irony that Maddow and Buchanan have a prime-time date many nights now on television.

"It's Pat" is a semi-regular feature on "The Rachel Maddow Show," a program that has surprised even the people who put it on with its success after only a month on the air.

Maddow is a regular on the liberal "Air America" radio network and had appeared frequently on MSNBC, particular on Keith Olbermann's "Countdown." She was given the 9 p.m. EST slot when network executives judged Dan Abrams' show a failure.

Its second week on the air, Maddow's audience was bigger than CNN's "Larry King Live." King won the third week and the two are settling into what promises to be a competitive battle behind Fox News Channel's dominant "Hannity & Colmes." During the week of Sept. 22, Fox's show averaged 3.2 million, CNN had 2.1 million and Maddow was at 1.7 million.

She has more than doubled the audience that MSNBC had been getting in the time slot, according to Nielsen Media Research, and is keeping much of the audience that watches Olbermann.

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Naysayers told MSNBC chief executive Phil Griffin that Maddow would be too much like Olbermann, and there was a risk in turning his prime-time lineup completely over to one political point of view.

Instead, Maddow is something of a happy warrior compared to Olbermann's increasingly dark prince. The Rhodes Scholar can lap almost anyone intellectually without making you hate her for doing it.

"She's likeable," Griffin said. "She smiles, she has fun. She's interesting."

If Olbermann's show has a drumbeat that drives it, Maddow's "got a little bit of a symphony," he said.

She also doesn't back down from a fight. Olbermann's "Countdown" is well-written and meticulous, but he relies on guests who rarely disagree with him.

Maddow frequently brings on guests to argue with her, none more so than Buchanan.

He can exasperate her, and vice versa. To date, it hasn't become nasty.

To a certain extent, Maddow credits Buchanan with giving her television career a push. A few years ago when Buchanan hosted a show at MSNBC, he remembered her and sought her out for work.

"I like debating things with Pat," Maddow said. "He's funny and quick and intellectually coherent, even when his views are totally toxic."

Thinking back to the culture war speech, Maddow sees how one of Buchanan's contribution to Nixon-era politics was the idea of "positive polarization," or dividing the country against itself and siding politically with the bigger half.

Buchanan, by e-mail, said that "Rachel and I get along fine," but didn't elaborate since he prefers not to participate in feature stories about MSNBC shows. He's a paid MSNBC contributor, but the cable network has become particularly noxious to Republicans, mostly because of Olbermann.

Griffin said he liked how Maddow and Buchanan played off each other during MSNBC's primary coverage in the spring. "They're 180 degrees apart but they like each other," he said.

Maddow is still juggling several ideas around, even with the fast start.

"Every segment, every minute of the show is still a work in progress," she said. "We're still trying to figure out what works best on air, what we're capable of producing well, what's fun. I expect that if we're lucky enough to still be on the air in a year, the show will look very different than it does now."

Her show completes the transformation of MSNBC, in prime-time, into a politically liberal network ("Countdown" and "The Rachel Maddow Show" repeat in another two-hour block at 10 p.m. EST). That has caused some consternation at NBC News, where some feel that MSNBC has damaged the network's reputation for impartiality. NBC was targeted for angry chants at the GOP convention, and John McCain's campaign pointedly snubbed Brian Williams in giving Sarah Palin interviews to Charles Gibson of ABC and Katie Couric of CBS.

Griffin feels the ratings prove that on cable, shows with a strong point of view have the best chance of success.

A board hanging in Maddow's NBC office is filled with scribbles, mostly indecipherable, of potential topics for her shows. It's still so new that the nameplate outside is blank.

"I still haven't really figured out when I'm supposed to be where, and how to make sure there's time in every day to do things like eat and sleep and read my e-mail," she said.

___

On the Net:

http://www.msnbc.com/

___

EDITOR'S NOTE _ David Bauder can be reached at dbauder"at"ap.org

NEW YORK — At 19, Rachel Maddow shared a house with friends in Philadelphia and wasn't paying much attention to the 1992 Republican National Convention on television until Pat Buchanan took to t...
NEW YORK — At 19, Rachel Maddow shared a house with friends in Philadelphia and wasn't paying much attention to the 1992 Republican National Convention on television until Pat Buchanan took to t...
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How did Pat Buchanan weasel his way on the Rachael Maddow show?

The show is still new let Rachael do it! Bad match...Pa­t belongs on Fox . Hate him!

DOES HE EVER GO HOME?
DOES HE EVER SLEEP? A VAMPIRE!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 PM on 10/06/2008

I think Rachael wanted to do a little Hannity & Colmes theme with her playing Hannity (whom she obsesses over (him and Tucker Carlson (her secret crush))).

If Pat doesn't work out she should get Tucker to do the show and she can sit on his lap (not figuratively like Colmes with Hannity, literally) during his segment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:49 AM on 10/11/2008
- AnalyzeIT I'm a Fan of AnalyzeIT 63 fans permalink
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When Rachel is talking this man, (Pat) needs to shut the "F" up. He thinks he's on Fox News, etc. we watch MSNBC to get away from the yelling and talking over someone when they are trying to talk.

SO PAT, if you're going to be a guest - SHUT UP and CALM DOWN. Sheeesh!!!!

Obama-Biden 2008

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 PM on 10/06/2008
- oldguru I'm a Fan of oldguru 28 fans permalink
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As Pat Buchanan gets more desperate, his voice goes up another octave. Pretty soon he will make no audible sound at all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:23 PM on 10/07/2008
- Yurdelite I'm a Fan of Yurdelite 26 fans permalink

You can always let the MSNBC Pres ident know:

msnbc.comfin@msnbc.com
msnbc.comsnbc.com

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:25 AM on 10/23/2008

when i hear that hot air bag Pat Buchanan, i quickly turn the channel

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 PM on 10/06/2008
- deminmo I'm a Fan of deminmo 16 fans permalink

MSNBC did the smart thing in putting Rachel Maddow on the air.
She is a great balance to Buchannan and despite his gruff demeanor,
is also very astute about politics. I happen to like both a lot, and hate
to miss the show. I hope it has many successful years.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:05 PM on 10/06/2008
- siney I'm a Fan of siney 10 fans permalink
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i agree...i like this strange pairing and love that maddow gleefully takes buchanan on....he is sharp and coherent and once and a blue moon buchanan says something that even i can agree with....i suspect it is these qualities that attract maddow to buchanan intellectu­ally...bes­ides, keep your enemies closer, no?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:43 AM on 10/07/2008

Rachel is great to watch as she is whip-smart, works to create a discussion on topics with guests, has a great attitude and sense of humor that even got an ultra-conservative relative laughing when he watched a segment of her show that I pointed him to. And unlike the Big KO, who even in my opinion has become too big on myself and has guests that merely support or parrot his opinions, she has guests who will challenge her point of view. And that allows her to use her knowledge, intellect and composure to challenge them back in an effective manner. Very good commentary journalism in my book. Keep it up!

P.S. Just for the record, and if I am any indication of the new generation of politicall­y-progress­ive news watchers, the viewership of MSNBC shows as reported by the ratings maybe seriously understated as I only watch cable news shows using my computer as I find it much more convenient to watch clips and episodes on my own time versus the set times they are broadcast AND watch MSNBC first and mostly, in part because of the quality of shows, but also because its video website IMHO is the best designed. In fact, I don't even know whether Fox or CBS have video websites. Do they????

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 PM on 10/06/2008
- IQ I'm a Fan of IQ 12 fans permalink
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In a 1977 column urging a "thrashing" of gay groups, Buchanan wrote: "Homosexuality is not a civil right. Its rise almost always is accompanied, as in the Weimar Republic, with a decay of society and a collapse of its basic cinder block, the family." (New Republic, 3/30/92)

"Rail as they will about 'discrimination,' women are simply not endowed by nature with the same measures of single-minded ambition and the will to succeed in the fiercely competitive world of Western capitalism­." (syndicated column, 11/22/83)

"The real liberators of American women were not the feminist noise-makers, they were the automobile, the supermarket, the shopping center, the dishwasher, the washer-dryer, the freezer." (Right from the Beginning, p. 149)

On AIDS, Buchanan wrote in 1983: "The poor homosexuals -- they have declared war upon nature, and now nature is extracting an awful retribution (AIDS)." (Los Angeles Times, 11/28/86) Later that year, he demanded that New York City Ed Koch and New York Gov. Mario Cuomo cancel the Gay Pride Parade or else "be held personally responsible for the spread of the AIDS plague." "With 80,000 dead of AIDS, our promiscuous homosexuals appear literally hell-bent on Satanism and suicide," Buchanan wrote in 1990 (syndicated column, 10/17/90). In the 1992 campaign, he declared: "AIDS is nature's retribution for violating the laws of nature." (Seattle Times, 7/31/93)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 PM on 10/06/2008
- FdeBear I'm a Fan of FdeBear 53 fans permalink

In a 2008 commentary on his website he said 'black people need to get down on their knees and be thankful for being brought to this country". He also called Obama a shyster and a black con man. He has utter contempt for black people. He referred to a black female journalist who was debating him on TV as "a gal". He believes in Manifest Destiny. I wish they'd kick his cot out of the studio and his comb-over behind off the air.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:51 AM on 10/07/2008
- IQ I'm a Fan of IQ 12 fans permalink
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Buchanan's words and actions-

Buchanan chided the Republican Party for overreacting to David Duke and his Nazi "costume": "Take a hard look at Duke's portfolio of winning issues and expropriate those not in conflict with GOP principles, [such as] reverse discrimination against white folks." (syndicated column, 2/25/89)

Buchanan called for closing the U.S. Justice Department's Office of Special Investigations, which prosecuted Nazi war criminals, because it was "running down 70-year-old camp guards." (New York Times, 4/21/87)

-"The 'negroes' of Washington had their public schools, restaurants, bars, movie houses, playgrounds and churches; and we had ours." (Right from the Beginning, Buchanan's 1988 autobiography, p. 131)

Buchanan's advice to Pres. Nixon-

in an April 1969 memo not to visit "the Widow King" on the first anniversary of Martin Luther King's assassination, warning that a visit would "outrage many, many people who believe Dr. King was a fraud and a demagogue and perhaps worse.... Others consider him the Devil incarnate. Dr. King is one of the most divisive men in contemporary history." (New York Daily News, 10/1/90)

"integration of blacks and whites -- but even more so, poor and well-to-do -- is less likely to result in accommodation than it is in perpetual friction, as the incapable are placed consciously by government side by side with the capable."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:33 PM on 10/06/2008

Pat Buchanan su cks, Rachel needs to stop letting republicans come on her show. Other than that, the show is great.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:27 PM on 10/06/2008

I like seeing Pat debate Rachel. It's nice to see different viewpoints. That's what makes Rachel's show so interesting. I get bored watching Keith Olbermann because he is so predictable. It's ironic that Pat made that speech about cultural wars and now he is a guest on a lesbian's show. Shows how far we have come in this culture.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:21 PM on 10/06/2008

C'mon Rachel, if anyone can find out if Buchannan was really "Deep Throat" (from All the President's Men) you can.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 PM on 10/06/2008

Rachel Maddow has the most interesting & informational talk show on Air America I am glad to see her on msnbc I wish her well

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:12 PM on 10/06/2008

I admire Rachel for taking poor old Pat off the "has been" line and making him her sidekick - just like Edgar Bergen had Charlie McCarthy or Buffalo Bob had Howdy Doody. You can bearly see Rachel's lips move when Pat pontificates. Pat the perfect foil for a major Phd.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:03 PM on 10/06/2008
- AussieJim I'm a Fan of AussieJim 7 fans permalink
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I think RM is gorgeous (I am a lesbian trapped in a male body - kinda lucky I s'pose)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:48 PM on 10/06/2008
- demofem I'm a Fan of demofem 21 fans permalink

I too remember my shock when Pat Buchanan announced the 'culture war' twenty years ago. It does my heart proud to see 'my side' via Rachel Maddow show him what it feels like, instead, to be included, listened to and taken seriously. She wins intellectually and she wins spiritually. It's a beautiful thing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:47 PM on 10/06/2008
- cbeenthere I'm a Fan of cbeenthere 4 fans permalink

sometimes you think P Buchanan is mellowing; then he has to go and spoil it. I admire R Maddow for dealing with him.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:38 PM on 10/06/2008
- GJP2006 I'm a Fan of GJP2006 11 fans permalink
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Rachel is great and I like Pat Buchanan, surprisingly. I disagree with most of his views but I agree with Rachel's quote: "I like debating things with Pat," Maddow said. "He's funny and quick and intellectually coherent, even when his views are totally toxic."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:37 PM on 10/06/2008
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