Rachel Maddow, Pat Buchanan TV's New Odd Couple

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DAVID BAUDER | October 5, 2008 12:32 PM EST | AP

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In this image released by MSNBC, Rachel Maddow from MSNBC's "The Rachel Maddow Show," is shown on Sept. 23, 2008. (AP Photo/ MSNBC, Ali Goldstein)

NEW YORK — At 19, Rachel Maddow shared a house with friends in Philadelphia and wasn't paying much attention to the 1992 Republican National Convention on television until Pat Buchanan took to the podium.

She was transfixed. Buchanan's combative conservative speech, which denounced gay rights, was a milestone for people on two sides of a political divide. Either a call to arms or intolerant, depending on your point of view, it couldn't be ignored.

"Pat's culture war speech at the Republican convention hit me right between the eyes," said Maddow, MSNBC's new star and a lesbian. "He was, without euphemism, declaring that my own country was at war with me. I get it intellectually and strategically now, but at 19, I only got it emotionally."

So there's a certain irony that Maddow and Buchanan have a prime-time date many nights now on television.

"It's Pat" is a semi-regular feature on "The Rachel Maddow Show," a program that has surprised even the people who put it on with its success after only a month on the air.

Maddow is a regular on the liberal "Air America" radio network and had appeared frequently on MSNBC, particular on Keith Olbermann's "Countdown." She was given the 9 p.m. EST slot when network executives judged Dan Abrams' show a failure.

Its second week on the air, Maddow's audience was bigger than CNN's "Larry King Live." King won the third week and the two are settling into what promises to be a competitive battle behind Fox News Channel's dominant "Hannity & Colmes." During the week of Sept. 22, Fox's show averaged 3.2 million, CNN had 2.1 million and Maddow was at 1.7 million.

She has more than doubled the audience that MSNBC had been getting in the time slot, according to Nielsen Media Research, and is keeping much of the audience that watches Olbermann.

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Naysayers told MSNBC chief executive Phil Griffin that Maddow would be too much like Olbermann, and there was a risk in turning his prime-time lineup completely over to one political point of view.

Instead, Maddow is something of a happy warrior compared to Olbermann's increasingly dark prince. The Rhodes Scholar can lap almost anyone intellectually without making you hate her for doing it.

"She's likeable," Griffin said. "She smiles, she has fun. She's interesting."

If Olbermann's show has a drumbeat that drives it, Maddow's "got a little bit of a symphony," he said.

She also doesn't back down from a fight. Olbermann's "Countdown" is well-written and meticulous, but he relies on guests who rarely disagree with him.

Maddow frequently brings on guests to argue with her, none more so than Buchanan.

He can exasperate her, and vice versa. To date, it hasn't become nasty.

To a certain extent, Maddow credits Buchanan with giving her television career a push. A few years ago when Buchanan hosted a show at MSNBC, he remembered her and sought her out for work.

"I like debating things with Pat," Maddow said. "He's funny and quick and intellectually coherent, even when his views are totally toxic."

Thinking back to the culture war speech, Maddow sees how one of Buchanan's contribution to Nixon-era politics was the idea of "positive polarization," or dividing the country against itself and siding politically with the bigger half.

Buchanan, by e-mail, said that "Rachel and I get along fine," but didn't elaborate since he prefers not to participate in feature stories about MSNBC shows. He's a paid MSNBC contributor, but the cable network has become particularly noxious to Republicans, mostly because of Olbermann.

Griffin said he liked how Maddow and Buchanan played off each other during MSNBC's primary coverage in the spring. "They're 180 degrees apart but they like each other," he said.

Maddow is still juggling several ideas around, even with the fast start.

"Every segment, every minute of the show is still a work in progress," she said. "We're still trying to figure out what works best on air, what we're capable of producing well, what's fun. I expect that if we're lucky enough to still be on the air in a year, the show will look very different than it does now."

Her show completes the transformation of MSNBC, in prime-time, into a politically liberal network ("Countdown" and "The Rachel Maddow Show" repeat in another two-hour block at 10 p.m. EST). That has caused some consternation at NBC News, where some feel that MSNBC has damaged the network's reputation for impartiality. NBC was targeted for angry chants at the GOP convention, and John McCain's campaign pointedly snubbed Brian Williams in giving Sarah Palin interviews to Charles Gibson of ABC and Katie Couric of CBS.

Griffin feels the ratings prove that on cable, shows with a strong point of view have the best chance of success.

A board hanging in Maddow's NBC office is filled with scribbles, mostly indecipherable, of potential topics for her shows. It's still so new that the nameplate outside is blank.

"I still haven't really figured out when I'm supposed to be where, and how to make sure there's time in every day to do things like eat and sleep and read my e-mail," she said.

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On the Net:

http://www.msnbc.com/

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EDITOR'S NOTE _ David Bauder can be reached at dbauder"at"ap.org

NEW YORK — At 19, Rachel Maddow shared a house with friends in Philadelphia and wasn't paying much attention to the 1992 Republican National Convention on television until Pat Buchanan took to t...
NEW YORK — At 19, Rachel Maddow shared a house with friends in Philadelphia and wasn't paying much attention to the 1992 Republican National Convention on television until Pat Buchanan took to t...
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- pgurlatl I'm a Fan of pgurlatl 13 fans permalink
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I have to admit. I like that he is on the show pretty regularly. I think sometimes as much as we hate to admit it, ying really needs their yang.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:33 PM on 10/06/2008
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Rachel is a VERY attractive person ... and I'm not even a lesbian!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:31 PM on 10/06/2008
- missjabez I'm a Fan of missjabez 18 fans permalink
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I'm not a lesbian, either, but if I were, I'd like Rachel to be my Sugar Mama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:31 PM on 10/06/2008
- renatam I'm a Fan of renatam 95 fans permalink

Can't think of a better epitaph for the "culture wars" profitably ushered in by the post-Civil Rights/Women's Rights Nixonian and Lee Atwater era -- to hold back the tide of CHANGE -- than for Rachel to DEBATE Pat Buchanan as often as possible.

Rachel is capable of taking on Pat -- and, had he lived, William F. Buckley himself. Rachel is a worthy heir to Gore Vidal and Dick Cavette, and I am grateful Keith Olberman championed her and, MSNBC realized their tired frat-boy lineup (Joe Scarborough, Chris Matthews, Pat Buchanan, David Gregory et al) was dated and stale. When pundits are BEHIND the American citizenry and are desperately trying to obscure from the Republican disasters for corporate profits to satisfy advertisers and war profiteering -- it is time to ADJUST.

MSNBC is the caboose of the zeitgeist of the American people. It will be interesting to see what the cheerleading CNBC does -- w/an imploding economy and their star CEOs do perp walks after Hearings - next year, via a Dem Congress.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:21 PM on 10/06/2008
- AnalyzeIT I'm a Fan of AnalyzeIT 65 fans permalink
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Rachel is one, if not the best.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:21 PM on 10/06/2008
- katedog I'm a Fan of katedog 10 fans permalink
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I love the Rachel/Pat combo.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:16 PM on 10/06/2008
- Prism I'm a Fan of Prism 6 fans permalink

Intelligent people can disagree intelligently and with civility. I find the fact that she is comfortable engaging the loyal oppositon impressive, fearless and yet quite frankly exhilirating in that BOTH points of view get a fair hearing. Far too rare on cable these days. Pat Buchanan is a PERFECT foil. There is real chemistry here. Olbermann is far too angry to engage the other side with class, so he doesn't even try . Like most bullies, he can dish it but can't stand any scrutiny of his own hyperbolic partisan rants. He's intellectually deadening, enjoying only the mean-spirited propaganda he venomously spews with relentless frequency. A real turn off. He can hide in his echo chamber. Give me the fesity progressive chick and her Republican Yoda any day!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:11 PM on 10/06/2008
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Rachel Maddow is the best news and commentary on television.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:11 PM on 10/06/2008
- fass I'm a Fan of fass 2 fans permalink

I like Rachel. I always watch her after keith olberman. she pretty and she is very smart. keep up the good work.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:09 PM on 10/06/2008
- Forest I'm a Fan of Forest 7 fans permalink

Rachel Maddow is choice and Pat Buchanan is unlike his Fox conpatriots in that he speaks from the heart, not from script.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:05 PM on 10/06/2008
- AxelDC I'm a Fan of AxelDC 94 fans permalink
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Rachel Maddow represents the best of TV journalism. MSNBC should be proud to have her on their network.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:48 PM on 10/06/2008
- darter22 I'm a Fan of darter22 18 fans permalink

I love Rachel and I love her new show. I've even gained a new respect for Pat as a voice of conservative reason (sometimes). A refreshing change from the kooks on Faux.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:43 PM on 10/06/2008
- DeeW I'm a Fan of DeeW 27 fans permalink

Rachel is amazing and I've always enjoyed her banter with Buchanan. I like that they are so opposite of each other yet they seem to really enjoy the debate, and also seem to like each other ... not that I see them hanging out off camera a lot, but I think there's a level of respect despite their differing views.

As for Kieth, I've been a fan but he's best when he's not wigging out. When he asks insightful questions and is being funny that's great. His rants or "special comments" often leave him sounding a bit unhinged. Lately I've been changing channels when those come one ... enough already.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:17 PM on 10/06/2008
- alembic54 I'm a Fan of alembic54 3 fans permalink

As Vito Corleone once said: "Keep your friends close; your enemies closer."

By the way did Pat get a total woody after Gidget the Pit Bull Palins performance in the VP debate>

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:58 PM on 10/06/2008
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Lesbian Show is better sounding name.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:53 PM on 10/06/2008
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Functor A. Sphincter has a nice ring to it too

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:52 PM on 10/06/2008

haha are you kidding me?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:58 PM on 10/06/2008
- fass I'm a Fan of fass 2 fans permalink

why you have to go there. idiot

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:10 PM on 10/06/2008

Ah, whatever Functor.

If whomever she has breakfast with is that important to you, don't watch.

Our gain, your loss.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:12 PM on 10/06/2008

I really like Rachel Maddow; the show is worth watching. I like Pat Buchanan for the reasons that Rachel herself stated in the article above: " "I like debating things with Pat," Maddow said. "He's funny and quick and intellectually coherent, even when his views are totally toxic."
Rachel is liberal; Pat is conservative. There should be a place in mainstream media for genuine, legitimate voices (not the pseudo-nonsense of the hannity-combs ilk) from a true liberal-progressive philosophy and a true conservative (not the faux poseurs that are most Republicans) philosophy. There ARE real differences but we no longer see them or hear them because of the blurring in the current undifferentiated Republican-Democrat categories. Bring on Bernie Sanders and Bob Barr; Dennis Kucinich and ?who? Richard Shelby (R-AL). Ralph Nader and Rachel Maddow versus Bob Barr and some other true conservative. That could be some good television and a good experience for an electorate ignorant of the actual philosophical differences in those politcial schools of thought. World Wide Wrestling of the Minds!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:42 PM on 10/06/2008
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