Rachel Maddow, Pat Buchanan TV's New Odd Couple

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DAVID BAUDER | October 5, 2008 12:32 PM EST | AP

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In this image released by MSNBC, Rachel Maddow from MSNBC's "The Rachel Maddow Show," is shown on Sept. 23, 2008. (AP Photo/ MSNBC, Ali Goldstein)

NEW YORK — At 19, Rachel Maddow shared a house with friends in Philadelphia and wasn't paying much attention to the 1992 Republican National Convention on television until Pat Buchanan took to the podium.

She was transfixed. Buchanan's combative conservative speech, which denounced gay rights, was a milestone for people on two sides of a political divide. Either a call to arms or intolerant, depending on your point of view, it couldn't be ignored.

"Pat's culture war speech at the Republican convention hit me right between the eyes," said Maddow, MSNBC's new star and a lesbian. "He was, without euphemism, declaring that my own country was at war with me. I get it intellectually and strategically now, but at 19, I only got it emotionally."

So there's a certain irony that Maddow and Buchanan have a prime-time date many nights now on television.

"It's Pat" is a semi-regular feature on "The Rachel Maddow Show," a program that has surprised even the people who put it on with its success after only a month on the air.

Maddow is a regular on the liberal "Air America" radio network and had appeared frequently on MSNBC, particular on Keith Olbermann's "Countdown." She was given the 9 p.m. EST slot when network executives judged Dan Abrams' show a failure.

Its second week on the air, Maddow's audience was bigger than CNN's "Larry King Live." King won the third week and the two are settling into what promises to be a competitive battle behind Fox News Channel's dominant "Hannity & Colmes." During the week of Sept. 22, Fox's show averaged 3.2 million, CNN had 2.1 million and Maddow was at 1.7 million.

She has more than doubled the audience that MSNBC had been getting in the time slot, according to Nielsen Media Research, and is keeping much of the audience that watches Olbermann.

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Naysayers told MSNBC chief executive Phil Griffin that Maddow would be too much like Olbermann, and there was a risk in turning his prime-time lineup completely over to one political point of view.

Instead, Maddow is something of a happy warrior compared to Olbermann's increasingly dark prince. The Rhodes Scholar can lap almost anyone intellectually without making you hate her for doing it.

"She's likeable," Griffin said. "She smiles, she has fun. She's interesting."

If Olbermann's show has a drumbeat that drives it, Maddow's "got a little bit of a symphony," he said.

She also doesn't back down from a fight. Olbermann's "Countdown" is well-written and meticulous, but he relies on guests who rarely disagree with him.

Maddow frequently brings on guests to argue with her, none more so than Buchanan.

He can exasperate her, and vice versa. To date, it hasn't become nasty.

To a certain extent, Maddow credits Buchanan with giving her television career a push. A few years ago when Buchanan hosted a show at MSNBC, he remembered her and sought her out for work.

"I like debating things with Pat," Maddow said. "He's funny and quick and intellectually coherent, even when his views are totally toxic."

Thinking back to the culture war speech, Maddow sees how one of Buchanan's contribution to Nixon-era politics was the idea of "positive polarization," or dividing the country against itself and siding politically with the bigger half.

Buchanan, by e-mail, said that "Rachel and I get along fine," but didn't elaborate since he prefers not to participate in feature stories about MSNBC shows. He's a paid MSNBC contributor, but the cable network has become particularly noxious to Republicans, mostly because of Olbermann.

Griffin said he liked how Maddow and Buchanan played off each other during MSNBC's primary coverage in the spring. "They're 180 degrees apart but they like each other," he said.

Maddow is still juggling several ideas around, even with the fast start.

"Every segment, every minute of the show is still a work in progress," she said. "We're still trying to figure out what works best on air, what we're capable of producing well, what's fun. I expect that if we're lucky enough to still be on the air in a year, the show will look very different than it does now."

Her show completes the transformation of MSNBC, in prime-time, into a politically liberal network ("Countdown" and "The Rachel Maddow Show" repeat in another two-hour block at 10 p.m. EST). That has caused some consternation at NBC News, where some feel that MSNBC has damaged the network's reputation for impartiality. NBC was targeted for angry chants at the GOP convention, and John McCain's campaign pointedly snubbed Brian Williams in giving Sarah Palin interviews to Charles Gibson of ABC and Katie Couric of CBS.

Griffin feels the ratings prove that on cable, shows with a strong point of view have the best chance of success.

A board hanging in Maddow's NBC office is filled with scribbles, mostly indecipherable, of potential topics for her shows. It's still so new that the nameplate outside is blank.

"I still haven't really figured out when I'm supposed to be where, and how to make sure there's time in every day to do things like eat and sleep and read my e-mail," she said.

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On the Net:

http://www.msnbc.com/

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EDITOR'S NOTE _ David Bauder can be reached at dbauder"at"ap.org

NEW YORK — At 19, Rachel Maddow shared a house with friends in Philadelphia and wasn't paying much attention to the 1992 Republican National Convention on television until Pat Buchanan took to t...
NEW YORK — At 19, Rachel Maddow shared a house with friends in Philadelphia and wasn't paying much attention to the 1992 Republican National Convention on television until Pat Buchanan took to t...
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- bltmn I'm a Fan of bltmn 14 fans permalink
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I'm far to the left of Buchanan and far to the right of Maddow, but I really like them both. They are each rather pure forms of their ideological niches, meaning they are consistent in their views and don't waver or back down.

They are also both incredibly intelligent and articulate; passionately outspoken without ever being shrill or demeaning. The higher level of their interaction, as opposed to the open contempt that seems to pervade every other 'political' discussion, is what makes them so interesting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:39 PM on 10/06/2008

I totally agree.

The thing I'm liking about Rachel more and more is her curiosity, and her ability to let people she differs hugely with, have their say.

She doesn't play Gotcha Journalism. She's polite and respectful to people you just KNOW she doesn't agree with, and that engenders respect and civility in her guests.

Even Nancy Pfotenhauer last week was watchable. None of the shrill partisan McCain talking points - you could see Rachel disagreed with every word she said, but she didn't make it an issue.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:09 PM on 10/06/2008
- knerd I'm a Fan of knerd 22 fans permalink
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I am so proud of Rachel. I have been in her corner for years and I see her as another daughter.
He approach to politics on television is revolutionary. She doesn't fit the pundit stereotype.

Congrats, Rachel !!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:32 PM on 10/06/2008
- Truthdude I'm a Fan of Truthdude 2 fans permalink
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Rachel Maddow is my favorite lesbian.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:26 PM on 10/06/2008
- BBackSoon I'm a Fan of BBackSoon 47 fans permalink
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Ok as a reasonable person (Liberal) I will say that every once in a while I agree with Buchanan. But it still shocks me when it happens.

‘The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes’ – Winston Chruchill

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:23 PM on 10/06/2008
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It's like being turned on by a picture of your grandma when she was young and at the beach

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:55 PM on 10/06/2008
- BBackSoon I'm a Fan of BBackSoon 47 fans permalink
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Great, now I feel dirty!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:51 PM on 10/07/2008
- demfriend I'm a Fan of demfriend 24 fans permalink
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I have foloowed Rachel since hearing her on Air America and liking that she had a brian and was never afraid of using it. A fight maybe but mostly to make sure the full information was out so decsions could be made based on the real story. When she started for Keith Olberman whom I adore, I was happy to see her advance her career in such a way. She followed his lead in the the show but also took in new people to comment/advise and did not always agree with her. Keith has kept some she brought on which is something he should have don. Others have fallen away from his show because they were no longer people who could even talk about issues but brought their own and therefore are not seen on MSNBC period. Dana Milbank was one who bit the hand that fed him for many sessions and gave him a name he didn't have before. But Rachel isn't so political as she is fair and smart and that will keep her going up the ladder no matter who insults her.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:06 PM on 10/06/2008
- ncd I'm a Fan of ncd permalink

P.B. causes me to suck a lemon through a straw, use your imagination .I think R.M. is great,
she has the most marvelous style and smile.
Can't MSNBC find some one other than P.B, this man is so abrasive.
I thought the end was in sight, after his on air display, following S.P. Speech. I do hope he had a change if undies with him..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:05 PM on 10/06/2008
- peachykeen I'm a Fan of peachykeen 8 fans permalink
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I totally agree with you. I Tivo Rachel, Keith and Chris. When PB comes on any of them, I just spin right thru it. Just can't stand to listen to the man. It makes no difference whether I agree with what he is saying or not. He's like running your fingernails down a blackboard.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:24 PM on 10/06/2008
- booker52 I'm a Fan of booker52 32 fans permalink
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I like Countdown, but it's true Keith doesn't have anyone on that disagree's with him, while Rachel does and that is what makes her show interesting. She can have nasty ol Pat B on and she can just about make him purr. She is funny and yes interesting. She does her homework and it shows. She is not in your face about it either. I do know that if you are not on your toes she can make some folks look like fools, but that is their problem, not hers. Love her show.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:42 PM on 10/06/2008

Love Rachel's show. She's sooo smart. It's so exciting to have an intelligent woman on the air. I think Pat is well, you know, Pat. You know he's completely out of touch and his views are extreme to say the least. But in the end you just know he's not as mean as his words sound. I think he's a good foil for Rachel. As for NBC news, I can't see why they should be worried about the "liberal" MSNBC when they still have that turkey Brokaw running Meet the Press. Yesterday he talked about Barack Obama's "besotted base." Talk about elitist media. I miss Tim Russert.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:41 PM on 10/06/2008
- Islandtime I'm a Fan of Islandtime 14 fans permalink
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I don't agree with anything Buchanan says, but have always liked him for some reason.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:38 PM on 10/06/2008

same here. i have come to understand it's because:

A. He often battles republicans ideologically and does so coherently with a solid foundation for his opinions and beliefs.

B. He doesn't just call names. He actually forms intellectually-stimulating, intelligent ideas and presents them for debate.

As far as conservatives go, he's true to his ideals and doesn't sell out his principles for the expediency of winning a political debate. That's to be admired even if I vehemently disagree with 99% of what he debates.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:51 PM on 10/06/2008
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C. He doesn't always take himself too seriously.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:56 PM on 10/06/2008

Pat is just as bad as Liz on the View. The sound of his voice is a killer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:29 PM on 10/06/2008
- shades3 I'm a Fan of shades3 34 fans permalink

Two things, besides his political views, bother me about Buchanan. One is his mega-irritating voice that is horribly grating in it's lowest registers and audible only to dogs in it's highest registers.
His obvious irrational adoration of Sarah Palin is just embarassing.
Get real, Pat!!
Palin is one of those women other women either buddy up to in self-defence, or wish she would move out of town.
Her phoniness makes most women's skin crawl.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:32 PM on 10/06/2008

I have enjoyed Rachael from the beginning and she gives PB a good run for his money. As for Sarah "Pit Bull" Palin, a REAL interview one on one with Rachael would really show her for what she is and kick her butt. Keeping her hidden behind the "good ole boy" network is cowardice at the highest level by her handlers. I DARE them to let her come on Rachael's show.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:40 PM on 10/06/2008
- Zoolie I'm a Fan of Zoolie 4 fans permalink

I was prayinng at least Maddow would resist having that jerk on her show.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:21 PM on 10/06/2008

Buchanan is the man!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:13 PM on 10/06/2008
- paulbk I'm a Fan of paulbk 2 fans permalink

Rachel Maddow is a breath of fresh air and a national treasure. Rachel’s civility and IQ lifts cable-talk out of the mud. Not a trivial task.

A heartfelt thank you Rachel!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:07 PM on 10/06/2008
- AnitaBreak I'm a Fan of AnitaBreak 2 fans permalink

PB is just like everyone's uncle. You know, the angry grandwizard, anti-sem uncle not the cool one that bought you 3.2 beer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:58 PM on 10/06/2008

Rachel is a national treasure.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:53 PM on 10/06/2008
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