Rachel Maddow, Pat Buchanan TV's New Odd Couple

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DAVID BAUDER | October 5, 2008 12:32 PM EST | AP

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In this image released by MSNBC, Rachel Maddow from MSNBC's "The Rachel Maddow Show," is shown on Sept. 23, 2008. (AP Photo/ MSNBC, Ali Goldstein)

NEW YORK — At 19, Rachel Maddow shared a house with friends in Philadelphia and wasn't paying much attention to the 1992 Republican National Convention on television until Pat Buchanan took to the podium.

She was transfixed. Buchanan's combative conservative speech, which denounced gay rights, was a milestone for people on two sides of a political divide. Either a call to arms or intolerant, depending on your point of view, it couldn't be ignored.

"Pat's culture war speech at the Republican convention hit me right between the eyes," said Maddow, MSNBC's new star and a lesbian. "He was, without euphemism, declaring that my own country was at war with me. I get it intellectually and strategically now, but at 19, I only got it emotionally."

So there's a certain irony that Maddow and Buchanan have a prime-time date many nights now on television.

"It's Pat" is a semi-regular feature on "The Rachel Maddow Show," a program that has surprised even the people who put it on with its success after only a month on the air.

Maddow is a regular on the liberal "Air America" radio network and had appeared frequently on MSNBC, particular on Keith Olbermann's "Countdown." She was given the 9 p.m. EST slot when network executives judged Dan Abrams' show a failure.

Its second week on the air, Maddow's audience was bigger than CNN's "Larry King Live." King won the third week and the two are settling into what promises to be a competitive battle behind Fox News Channel's dominant "Hannity & Colmes." During the week of Sept. 22, Fox's show averaged 3.2 million, CNN had 2.1 million and Maddow was at 1.7 million.

She has more than doubled the audience that MSNBC had been getting in the time slot, according to Nielsen Media Research, and is keeping much of the audience that watches Olbermann.

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Naysayers told MSNBC chief executive Phil Griffin that Maddow would be too much like Olbermann, and there was a risk in turning his prime-time lineup completely over to one political point of view.

Instead, Maddow is something of a happy warrior compared to Olbermann's increasingly dark prince. The Rhodes Scholar can lap almost anyone intellectually without making you hate her for doing it.

"She's likeable," Griffin said. "She smiles, she has fun. She's interesting."

If Olbermann's show has a drumbeat that drives it, Maddow's "got a little bit of a symphony," he said.

She also doesn't back down from a fight. Olbermann's "Countdown" is well-written and meticulous, but he relies on guests who rarely disagree with him.

Maddow frequently brings on guests to argue with her, none more so than Buchanan.

He can exasperate her, and vice versa. To date, it hasn't become nasty.

To a certain extent, Maddow credits Buchanan with giving her television career a push. A few years ago when Buchanan hosted a show at MSNBC, he remembered her and sought her out for work.

"I like debating things with Pat," Maddow said. "He's funny and quick and intellectually coherent, even when his views are totally toxic."

Thinking back to the culture war speech, Maddow sees how one of Buchanan's contribution to Nixon-era politics was the idea of "positive polarization," or dividing the country against itself and siding politically with the bigger half.

Buchanan, by e-mail, said that "Rachel and I get along fine," but didn't elaborate since he prefers not to participate in feature stories about MSNBC shows. He's a paid MSNBC contributor, but the cable network has become particularly noxious to Republicans, mostly because of Olbermann.

Griffin said he liked how Maddow and Buchanan played off each other during MSNBC's primary coverage in the spring. "They're 180 degrees apart but they like each other," he said.

Maddow is still juggling several ideas around, even with the fast start.

"Every segment, every minute of the show is still a work in progress," she said. "We're still trying to figure out what works best on air, what we're capable of producing well, what's fun. I expect that if we're lucky enough to still be on the air in a year, the show will look very different than it does now."

Her show completes the transformation of MSNBC, in prime-time, into a politically liberal network ("Countdown" and "The Rachel Maddow Show" repeat in another two-hour block at 10 p.m. EST). That has caused some consternation at NBC News, where some feel that MSNBC has damaged the network's reputation for impartiality. NBC was targeted for angry chants at the GOP convention, and John McCain's campaign pointedly snubbed Brian Williams in giving Sarah Palin interviews to Charles Gibson of ABC and Katie Couric of CBS.

Griffin feels the ratings prove that on cable, shows with a strong point of view have the best chance of success.

A board hanging in Maddow's NBC office is filled with scribbles, mostly indecipherable, of potential topics for her shows. It's still so new that the nameplate outside is blank.

"I still haven't really figured out when I'm supposed to be where, and how to make sure there's time in every day to do things like eat and sleep and read my e-mail," she said.

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On the Net:

http://www.msnbc.com/

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EDITOR'S NOTE _ David Bauder can be reached at dbauder"at"ap.org

NEW YORK — At 19, Rachel Maddow shared a house with friends in Philadelphia and wasn't paying much attention to the 1992 Republican National Convention on television until Pat Buchanan took to t...
NEW YORK — At 19, Rachel Maddow shared a house with friends in Philadelphia and wasn't paying much attention to the 1992 Republican National Convention on television until Pat Buchanan took to t...
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- SonyaInTx I'm a Fan of SonyaInTx 3 fans permalink

Gay or not, I love Rachel Maddow.

Radical or not I like Pat Buchanan.

Her show is must see TV for me. :)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:45 PM on 10/06/2008
- ricitizen I'm a Fan of ricitizen 17 fans permalink
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Oh spit! http://pollster.com/ just flipped their electoral map to 275 Obama, 163 McCain 115 Toss-up. And the toss-ups are VA, OH, FL, MI, IN, CO, NV and NH. Therefore they have him winning right now, even without VA, OH, FL! Wow!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:45 PM on 10/06/2008
- Morcat I'm a Fan of Morcat 8 fans permalink
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It's so nice to have a program where being intelligent isn't considered a handicap or character defect. I do think Pat will wear out his welcome before long. He is a good foil for Maddow, however I'm not so sure about his "intellectual coherence." Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:44 PM on 10/06/2008

PB is a loveable Archie Bunker type. My guess is that we all love and know somebody like him in our own families and that is why it works. Unlike some partisans (see Olberman or Coulter) who are graceless, angry, and full of raw hate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:38 PM on 10/06/2008
- jalapeno I'm a Fan of jalapeno 25 fans permalink
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Pat Bucchanan has a high pitched squeeky voice that is super irritating,

I wish he wasn't on sooo much !!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:31 PM on 10/06/2008

I wish he wasn't on at all.
The time for reasoned counterpoint is DONE. We can see with our own eyes what his administration has done.
I don't need to hear his whining and defenses just to be fair.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:17 PM on 10/06/2008
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In deference to Olbermann's plugging for the Rachel show, I watched a few times. No thanks. She's ok, but Pat-- good heavens! When people are that extreme, everything that comes out of their mouths sounds (ha, ha) funny. The worst was after the VP debate, when ask Pat B. responds with "Sarah Palin mopped the floor with Joe Biden". Huh? Don't know which was worse, all the "journalists" falling over themselves NOT to say "Palin isn't dumb as dirt-- but almost" or the delusional "mopping of floors" comment.

I know Maddow's an attempt at a moderate's perspective, but she comes off milk toast. Moderates are not milk toast! I think npr's "All things considered" does the best job.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:25 PM on 10/06/2008
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Well, it is high time that we liberal/progressive types have a place to scurry at the end of the day. Fake News, "Fair/Balanced", .......for conservati­ves.....MS­NBC for Libs. It makes perfect sense. There is money for the bigwigs to make on people like me, and they are beginning to come around to my way of thinking. Rachel is the best and I have been listening to her for years. I am still trying to find Sam Sedar, and hope to see/hear him soon. Hint, hint.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:24 PM on 10/06/2008
- kadene I'm a Fan of kadene 11 fans permalink

It makes it all the more interesting. That's what dissenting and opposition is all about. can you imagine how boring and predictable Rachel's show would be if all her guests thought the same?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:10 PM on 10/06/2008

I don't have to imagine how boring it would be if Maddow only had on guests that solely agreed with her...I just have to think of an episode of Olberman's propagandistic shtick and my eyes glaze over.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:30 PM on 10/06/2008

I wish she didn't have him on her show so much....he's very "Anti".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 PM on 10/06/2008
- WRPrintz I'm a Fan of WRPrintz 12 fans permalink

I see a lot of projection here, people putting their own lives on and into the views and tactics of the media.

That is exactly what they want. This is revenue folks, they want you involved so you spend cash where they want it.

Get focused on the content. Rachel is the queen of content and we need her to have a foil, not an echo chamber, to show people how her ideas have relevance, humor and dignity for all Americans. Pat is the friendly familiar face of the semi-rival you know in the workplace or at the bar, sometimes hostile, but never too serious a threat that you get to see Rachel take down every night.

Brilliant TV. Calling for his removal is a wrong programming move, and a wrong move in terms of fairness. We should not be asking for Liberals to behave like Faux news. Ever.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:53 PM on 10/06/2008
- Egghead I'm a Fan of Egghead 18 fans permalink

I totally agree. I also never get tired of watching her deal with Pat Buchanan. I'm always thinking, "How can she stand him? How can she not reach over and slap him one upside the head?" But she doesn't. She's even weirdly cordial. It's a strength, not a weakness. I also liked that she had (Pflotenba­uer?--what­ever her name is?) on. And THEN proceeded to dismantle her arguments, piece by piece.

Mind you, I like Keith Olbermann, too, but I'm glad Rachel Maddow's show is different.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:44 PM on 10/06/2008

MSNBC has 3 hours of right-wingness every morning with Joe Scarborough and his nodding Ed McMahon Mika. So I wouldn't call MSNBC a liberal network, it has some balance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 10/06/2008

Whereas I despise Pat Buchanan and all he stands for; I do love the give and take he and Rachel have. I think Buchanan is insane more often than not; especially when he says things like Palin won the VP debate. But it is a breath of fresh air to see two people on opposite sides of the fence debate in an adult manner without resorting to name calling and incivility.

Brava to Ms Maddow and her wonderful new show.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:45 PM on 10/06/2008
- leonyc I'm a Fan of leonyc 2 fans permalink
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While I disagree strongly with Pat Buchanan's socially conservative views, I strongly agree with him on foreign and economic policy, and have always found his insights to be very interesting and right on. {at values and encourages diplomacy and finds neo-cons destructive to the US interests. Pat advocates engaging Russia. His book "When the Right Went Wrong" speaks for itself. Pat was one of the first Republicans who openly critisized the Iraq War as unncessary, costly and counter-productive. I think his "Day of Reckoning" book is simply great, as it looks through a critical eye on America today - the country that has become dependent on China and other countries for pretty much everything.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:36 PM on 10/06/2008
- ShamusNYC I'm a Fan of ShamusNYC 12 fans permalink

...

Rachel even had on Nancy Photoschnauzer and was able to conduct a skillful respectful interview. A skill that eludes morons like O'Reilly.

.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:36 PM on 10/06/2008

It was a good program at the beginning. I stopped watching it. I don't have to have stealthy Faux News with Pat Buchanal on Madow's show. I can smell the dung by going to the gutter directly.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:25 PM on 10/06/2008
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