Rachel Maddow, Pat Buchanan TV's New Odd Couple

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DAVID BAUDER | October 5, 2008 12:32 PM EST | AP

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In this image released by MSNBC, Rachel Maddow from MSNBC's "The Rachel Maddow Show," is shown on Sept. 23, 2008. (AP Photo/ MSNBC, Ali Goldstein)

NEW YORK — At 19, Rachel Maddow shared a house with friends in Philadelphia and wasn't paying much attention to the 1992 Republican National Convention on television until Pat Buchanan took to the podium.

She was transfixed. Buchanan's combative conservative speech, which denounced gay rights, was a milestone for people on two sides of a political divide. Either a call to arms or intolerant, depending on your point of view, it couldn't be ignored.

"Pat's culture war speech at the Republican convention hit me right between the eyes," said Maddow, MSNBC's new star and a lesbian. "He was, without euphemism, declaring that my own country was at war with me. I get it intellectually and strategically now, but at 19, I only got it emotionally."

So there's a certain irony that Maddow and Buchanan have a prime-time date many nights now on television.

"It's Pat" is a semi-regular feature on "The Rachel Maddow Show," a program that has surprised even the people who put it on with its success after only a month on the air.

Maddow is a regular on the liberal "Air America" radio network and had appeared frequently on MSNBC, particular on Keith Olbermann's "Countdown." She was given the 9 p.m. EST slot when network executives judged Dan Abrams' show a failure.

Its second week on the air, Maddow's audience was bigger than CNN's "Larry King Live." King won the third week and the two are settling into what promises to be a competitive battle behind Fox News Channel's dominant "Hannity & Colmes." During the week of Sept. 22, Fox's show averaged 3.2 million, CNN had 2.1 million and Maddow was at 1.7 million.

She has more than doubled the audience that MSNBC had been getting in the time slot, according to Nielsen Media Research, and is keeping much of the audience that watches Olbermann.

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Naysayers told MSNBC chief executive Phil Griffin that Maddow would be too much like Olbermann, and there was a risk in turning his prime-time lineup completely over to one political point of view.

Instead, Maddow is something of a happy warrior compared to Olbermann's increasingly dark prince. The Rhodes Scholar can lap almost anyone intellectually without making you hate her for doing it.

"She's likeable," Griffin said. "She smiles, she has fun. She's interesting."

If Olbermann's show has a drumbeat that drives it, Maddow's "got a little bit of a symphony," he said.

She also doesn't back down from a fight. Olbermann's "Countdown" is well-written and meticulous, but he relies on guests who rarely disagree with him.

Maddow frequently brings on guests to argue with her, none more so than Buchanan.

He can exasperate her, and vice versa. To date, it hasn't become nasty.

To a certain extent, Maddow credits Buchanan with giving her television career a push. A few years ago when Buchanan hosted a show at MSNBC, he remembered her and sought her out for work.

"I like debating things with Pat," Maddow said. "He's funny and quick and intellectually coherent, even when his views are totally toxic."

Thinking back to the culture war speech, Maddow sees how one of Buchanan's contribution to Nixon-era politics was the idea of "positive polarization," or dividing the country against itself and siding politically with the bigger half.

Buchanan, by e-mail, said that "Rachel and I get along fine," but didn't elaborate since he prefers not to participate in feature stories about MSNBC shows. He's a paid MSNBC contributor, but the cable network has become particularly noxious to Republicans, mostly because of Olbermann.

Griffin said he liked how Maddow and Buchanan played off each other during MSNBC's primary coverage in the spring. "They're 180 degrees apart but they like each other," he said.

Maddow is still juggling several ideas around, even with the fast start.

"Every segment, every minute of the show is still a work in progress," she said. "We're still trying to figure out what works best on air, what we're capable of producing well, what's fun. I expect that if we're lucky enough to still be on the air in a year, the show will look very different than it does now."

Her show completes the transformation of MSNBC, in prime-time, into a politically liberal network ("Countdown" and "The Rachel Maddow Show" repeat in another two-hour block at 10 p.m. EST). That has caused some consternation at NBC News, where some feel that MSNBC has damaged the network's reputation for impartiality. NBC was targeted for angry chants at the GOP convention, and John McCain's campaign pointedly snubbed Brian Williams in giving Sarah Palin interviews to Charles Gibson of ABC and Katie Couric of CBS.

Griffin feels the ratings prove that on cable, shows with a strong point of view have the best chance of success.

A board hanging in Maddow's NBC office is filled with scribbles, mostly indecipherable, of potential topics for her shows. It's still so new that the nameplate outside is blank.

"I still haven't really figured out when I'm supposed to be where, and how to make sure there's time in every day to do things like eat and sleep and read my e-mail," she said.

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On the Net:

http://www.msnbc.com/

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EDITOR'S NOTE _ David Bauder can be reached at dbauder"at"ap.org

NEW YORK — At 19, Rachel Maddow shared a house with friends in Philadelphia and wasn't paying much attention to the 1992 Republican National Convention on television until Pat Buchanan took to t...
NEW YORK — At 19, Rachel Maddow shared a house with friends in Philadelphia and wasn't paying much attention to the 1992 Republican National Convention on television until Pat Buchanan took to t...
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The segment with Buchanan is called "It's Pat"?! That's hysterical. I hope he's in on the joke.

It's time for political androgeny . . .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:03 PM on 10/06/2008
- foxbat I'm a Fan of foxbat 102 fans permalink
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I love the way that she and Pat play off of each other on her show. I recall that when the show first started, she used to refer to Pat lovingly as "my fake uncle." To some extent, that's what they remind me of ... an uncle and a niece ... a generation apart, with different ideas of the world, one conservative and rooted in the old and the other liberal and looking toward the future ... all the while, appreciating each other even if they don't necessarily agree. Sometimes Pat pushes it a bit though and comes across as a little condescending, but Rachel's strong enough to take sleights and make the deliverer pay without being nasty about it. Reminds me a little of Obama.

In a sense, I'd like to see a little more conservati­ve/liberal confrontations be more like this. It's nice to see people who disagree with each other still be able to have a civilized discourse where there doesn't have to be conqueror and vanquished.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:02 PM on 10/06/2008
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Agreed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 10/06/2008
- Marcee I'm a Fan of Marcee 2 fans permalink

Yes, somehow this Maddow-Buchanan duo/duel works effectively. Part of Maddow's strength is her unfailing courtesy to guests whether arch conservatives or liberals. While I have little in common with Buchanan's beliefs, it seems to me both he and Maddow share a well tuned sense of humor so any political dust up is exactly that --- a mere dust up--- and not a cut throat disagreement with one the victor and the other the defeated. I like the matchup.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 PM on 10/06/2008
- pbg I'm a Fan of pbg permalink

Pat Buchanan is a hard-bitten, unvarnished Nixonian conservative with a racist streak a mile wide--but he knows how to argue and is willing to do so. He listens to Rachel's positions and speaks to them.
Ib this era of interrupt-­the-speake­r, shout-her-down, Limbaugh-modeled duckspeakers, it's a important distinction.
I agree that liberal/pr­ogressives have little enough facetime as it is, but here's the challenge: name another conservative you'd rather have opposite Rachel.
I can't name a single one. Can you?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:00 PM on 10/06/2008
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George Will

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:30 PM on 10/06/2008
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i was gonna say that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:30 PM on 10/06/2008
- isadora I'm a Fan of isadora 15 fans permalink

Virtually every moment of her program, which I try not to ever miss, is electric and riveting. What energy! Remember the strange mix of the (then conservative) Arianna and the now-leadin­g-U.S. senate candidate Al Franken? And what came of that spicy blend of contrasts? Nothing but great things. This woman is a rocket! Go Al!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:00 PM on 10/06/2008
- amantell I'm a Fan of amantell 6 fans permalink

Maddow and Buchanan really are an odd couple. My impression for quite some time has been that the reason Buchanan appears so frequently on MSNBC is that he doesn't have anywhere else to go. He seems to be more of a Republican cheerleader than an astute analyst at times, and he's often more taken with political theater than he is with substantive policy--except when the subject is immigration, due to his transparently obvious xenophobia. Watching him yesterday on The McLaughin Group slobbering over Palin, who's charismatic and mildly attractive, but hardly striking, made me continue to think how boorish he is. I guess Maddow really does want to debate an opposing point of view. I can't help but think she's deserving of a better foil.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:59 PM on 10/06/2008

Amen, thank you very much. This man gets on my last nerve and I often wonder if he something else he could be doing. He couldn't shut up talking about how Biden should handle palin very carefully, along with a lot of the other talk show folk; then the very next day, he was saying that Biden didn't do a good job. I wish Maddow could do one of the debates. I really feel that she could make certain people answer the questions that are asked. I would pay to see her interview palin. I am so sick and tired of her crap passing for campaigning.

I can never understand why they would ask Buchanan what the Dems. should do. I can't imagine The Obama campaign ever taking advise from him. In all his vile talk about Black Americans, I'm certain that he would only suggest how they could lose. I can't stand that man......h­e and palin hold equal rating in my book. Yuk!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:22 PM on 10/06/2008

How true. At times Pat plays the Idiot card---the belief that most
Americans and most of his fellow pundits are just plain stupid and will fall for the utterances of a "well respected' pundit. Just like when he states that Palin (all bluff, no substance) wiped the floor with Biden at the VP debate and cites the rigged Fox Luntz polls and other right wing surveys as evidence. Not surprising that a lot of his colleagues accept his idiocies without comment. Morning Joe on MSNBC comes to mind.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 PM on 10/06/2008

I agree. I have absolutely nothing to learn from Pat Buchanan. He is now the Willard Scott of MSNBC.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 PM on 10/06/2008
- oldtree I'm a Fan of oldtree 7 fans permalink

Pat has a long term contract on NBC. He is going to show up on her show and any other because they have to put him on. When the contract expires, so will he. He is a nixon stooge and pretends to be a conservative. Would that he not repeat the GOP's crap when you can see the pain on his face repeating it. He is an open tell when he lies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 PM on 10/06/2008

You KNOW he's lying when he starts that Santa claus-type chuckle!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:00 PM on 10/06/2008
- katocat I'm a Fan of katocat 26 fans permalink

I don't think Pat really believes half of what he says, but he's kinda fund to watch.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:55 PM on 10/06/2008

He believes it ALL...and he's a freakin horror to watch and hear!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 PM on 10/06/2008

Rachel hasmore class and actual knowledge in her little toe than Boorish Buchanan has in his entire body!! I wish she'd tell him off right on the air! He's a perfect pundit for the time in America when women and Blacks could NOT vote!! He's a disgrace to MSNBC!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:55 PM on 10/06/2008
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I get the feeling that Rachel and Pat can spar for an entire hour on the set and then go to the local bar for a beer afterwards and talk like chums.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 PM on 10/06/2008

I get the feeling that MSNBC has decided to cash in on the aftermath of the outright hostility, fit-throwing, teeth-gnashing, spit flying tirade which Maddow was reduced to more than once, on air, but Buchanan. He wound her up and we were forced to watch her flop around like a pinata in a wind tunnel. She totally lost it. It was funny. Buchanan sat back and marveled. The fact that they remain on air together is a publicity ploy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 PM on 10/06/2008
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I must have missed all of those occasions. Usually, when I see the two of them sparring, she runs rings around him and he sits there trying to call her a "marxist" on every turn.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:47 PM on 10/06/2008
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Rachel Maddow exemplifies what is good with America.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:43 PM on 10/06/2008
- proveit2me I'm a Fan of proveit2me 6 fans permalink

I agree. Unfortunately, Pat Buchanan exemplifies much of what is wrong with America. He is also nearly unwatchable.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 PM on 10/06/2008

I wish I was as smart as her.

Why are folks afraid of intellectualism? I think it's cool.

Maddow can talk articulately and I've never seen her be condescending even if she finds herself at the opposite ideological spectrum with a guest. She'll make her points, but does it with grace. It's a beautiful thing and so uncommon in the MSM, no wonder why she's grabbing ratings. I hope she sets a new standard that is emulated. Hopefully the era of blithering idiots for talking heads is on the wane? Probably not, but one can hope.

Too bad she's not straight, I'd have a new crush.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:43 PM on 10/06/2008

Foolish comments! Also in the first line,you proved you weren't as smart as SHE by saying,"her"!! Take a 7th grade English grammar course...i­f you even got THAT far!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:59 PM on 10/06/2008
- corkonian I'm a Fan of corkonian 2 fans permalink

You're the foolish one - fuzzynormal made some well thought-out points and modestly admitted that they are attracted to intellectualism, inspite of their insecurity about their own. Shame on you for belittling that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 PM on 10/06/2008
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Being an a$$hat with two missing spaces is far more egregious than misusing the nominative pronoun case following a comparison.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:18 PM on 10/06/2008
- popizzy I'm a Fan of popizzy 4 fans permalink

Can I just say I waited up until 1am to see Ms. Maddow's show after the VP debate like she did for the presidential debate but MSNBC just re-aired the VP debate. Needless to say I was disappointed because I really like her show.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:43 PM on 10/06/2008

She's awesome.

But I think the set of her show looks kind of cheap and ugly. I hope they can fix that. You can tell it's the same place Abrams had his show, but now it has a wall with red and blue blocks and some TVs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 10/06/2008
- UtahLady I'm a Fan of UtahLady 6 fans permalink
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I would simply LOVE to see Palin on Maddow's show. Maddow would smile while shredding, and Palin wouldn't know what was coming next. Maddow is great.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 PM on 10/06/2008
- WriterGuy I'm a Fan of WriterGuy 10 fans permalink

And that's why you'll never see it...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:09 PM on 10/06/2008

Pat has always been more of a libertarian than a republican. He has always questioned our foreign policy stance towards Israel. He also punched out a cop in his younger days. He's lively and likable and makes a good foil for Rachel.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 PM on 10/06/2008
- isadora I'm a Fan of isadora 15 fans permalink

Libertarian? goldcoastsailor has a fogged memory. Buchanan was employed for several years by Richard Nixon, and remains a staunch, even adoring, defender of both Nixon and Sprio Agnew. Agnew, I remind you of fuzzy memory, was a law and order Republican who shouted it from the housetops--and was a bribe-taking, unconvicted felon the entire time he served as VP. Republican PR man is what I'd call Mr. B.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:05 PM on 10/06/2008
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