"Joe The Plumber" Speaks: "It's Pretty Surreal"

UPDATE : Joe the Plumber: McCain "Appalled Me," Made Me Feel "Dirty"

COLUMBUS, Ohio — Who is Joe the Plumber?

He is Joe Wurzelbacher, an Ohio man looking to buy a plumbing business who came to symbolize the notion of "spreading the wealth" in Wednesday night's third and final presidential debate between Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain.

Earlier this week, when Wurzelbacher got a chance to speak with Obama when the candidate visited Toledo, he told Obama that his tax plan would keep him from buying the business that currently employs him.

Sensing an opening in the debate, McCain cited that exchange when the candidates were asked to explain why their economic plans are better than their opponent's. McCain said Obama's plan would stop entrepreneurs from investing in new small businesses and keep existing ones from growing.

"Joe wants to buy the business that he has been in for all of these years, worked 10, 12 hours a day. And he wanted to buy the business but he looked at your tax plan and he saw that he was going to pay much higher taxes," McCain challenged Obama.

"You were going to put him in a higher tax bracket which was going to increase his taxes, which was going to cause him not to be able to employ people, which Joe was trying to realize the American dream," McCain said.

McCain then looked directly into the TV camera and said: "Joe, I want to tell you, I'll not only help you buy that business that you worked your whole life for and I'll keep your taxes low and I'll provide available and affordable health care for you and your employees. And I will not stand for a tax increase on small business income."

Obama denied that was true.

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"Not only do 98 percent of small businesses make less than $250,000, but I also want to give them additional tax breaks, because they are the drivers of the economy," Obama said. "They produce the most jobs."

So what did Wurzelbacher (pronounced whur-zell-BAHK-er) think about being at the center of the debate?

"It's pretty surreal, man, my name being mentioned in a presidential campaign," he said minutes after hearing McCain utter his name.

In Toledo on Sunday, Wurzelbacher told Obama that he was preparing the company, which earns more than $250,000 a year, and said: "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?"

Obama said that under his proposal taxes on any revenue from $250,000 on down would stay the same, but that amounts above that level would be subject to a 39 percent tax, instead of the current 36 percent rate.

"And the reason why we're doing that is because 95 percent of small businesses make less than 250 (thousand). So what I want to do is give them a tax cut. I want to give all these folks who are bus drivers, teachers, auto workers who make less, I want to give them a tax cut," he said.

Wurzelbacher protested, saying he's been a hardworking plumber for 15 years and why should he be taxed more.

"It's not that I want to punish your success," Obama said. "I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you that they've got a chance at success, too."

At a later point in the discussion, Obama said: "I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody. But listen, I respect what you do and I respect your question, and even if I don't get your vote, I'm still gonna be working hard on your behalf because small businesses are what creates jobs in this country and I want to encourage it."

Wurzelbacher's name came up again when the debate turned to a discussion of health care policies.

He said Obama's reaction on the tax question left him feeling uneasy.

"I didn't think much of it the first time I heard it," Wurzelbacher said, adding that he still thinks Obama's plan would keep him from buying the business.

About McCain: "He's got it right as far as I go."

Even so, Wurzelbacher declined to say which candidate would get his vote on Nov. 4.

"That's for me and a button to know," he said.

___

On the Net:

McCain: http://www.johnmccain.com

Obama: http://www.barackobama.com

Comments

[Vern58]

OK, the man has gotten more than his 15 minutes. Back to our faltering economy anyone?

[WildHorseIndep]

I trust Joe more than either of the two who took painfully earned tax dollars from citizens and funded a drunken wall st. spa junket well into the future. Those who would vote for either McCain or Obama are loyal to party above practicality, above country, above anything reasonable.

[1differentdrummer]

I pay pretty close attention to the presidential campaign and I cannot imagine who you would choose above Obama. He's by far the most likely to turn this ship of ours around and get us back to where we belong.

[milo h minderbinder]

You trust a guy who's only moment of fame was based on lies?

So who ARE you going to vote for since it won't be either Obama or McCain?

[who38]

Joe and the AIG group are equally stupid. Wish someone would vet the AIG guys with as much gusto and publicity as they have Joe. I would enjoy reading and responding to that information. Maybe when their mistakes become daily fodder for the amusement of bloggers, they will think before acting.

[Kerris]

Just a plea from someone who actually paid attention in social studies class:

Could all the trolls on this and similar threads please learn the difference between a communist, a marxist, a socialist and a facist.

Obama really (honestly!) cannot be all of them at once. So get your insults straight.

[amaycatbaker]

So true.

[Knowitall]

If I'm not mistaken, I believe Obama's plan gives a tax exemption to start up businesses. Also, since it's apparent now that neither Joe nor his boss are plumbers yet, theirs (or his own company) would be start up business(es). Also, since Joe is making "about" $40,000 a year right now, he's a little bit short of $250,000 at this time, and in this economy, will not reach that profit anytime soon (probably never), SO either he was lying through his teeth, didn't understand Obama's plan or didn't want to understand Obama's plan, OR he was a plant. I think I'm going to go with all three.

[sonofsamphm1c]

Obama is a Marxist. I'm yellin' ya! Why else would he make a provision in his small business tax plan that will allow small businesses to be sold with no tax on the capital gain. That's commie stuff.

[milo h minderbinder]

You mean a Groucho or a Harpo Marxist?

[tploomis]

I am a small business owner. It bothers me when people decide to vote strictly on self interest, rather than on what is good for the country as a whole. A small business making more than 250,000 should pay more taxes. That's fair. If my business ever makes more than 250,000 in a year, I will gladly pay more taxes. Voters that think it's all about me, me, me don't have my respect. Yes, taxes are the price we pay for civilization.

[DAdvocate123]

If you make more than $250,000 a year and pay more taxes, you won't be able hire as many workers.

[sonofsamphm1c]

Hogwash.

If you make 250,000 a year, then you made the decision to take that money out of the business. NObody is making the owner do that. The business owner would be perfectly free to make 220,000. With the 30000 the owner could grow his business by paying existing workers a bonus, or by hiring additional workers, or a combination thereof.

[milo h minderbinder]

As I understand, it should have minimal effect on hiring because taxes are paid AFTER you've subtracted payroll.

Hiring another employee lowers your tax bill.

[bonchesva]

To "tploomis" - now you are a true "Maverick!" I really think you should be running for president! I truly mean that! As JFK said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." I applaud you for being someone who has the country's best interest at heart! You are a true American!

[MsDebate]

And you wear the big drawz with the greatest comment...YOU ROCK!!!!!!!

[who38]

You are correct. Voting self interest is not putting country first. If we need a tax increase in order to save the country, it seems to me that McCain would want to support it. Guess sacrifice is limited to non-monetary issues. Or is McCain saying, "Country first, my wallet!"

[NickOLess]

"Taxes are the price we pay for civilization."

Bingo. Moreover, the Obama increase on that $250K tax bracket amounts to something like 3%, or $7000 -- not enough to hire another employee, that's for damn sure.

[Tinsdale]

Actually, "Joe, The Plumber" is not a real person. He is a John McCain Avatar.

[4Detroit]

I don't know, but, I steal believe he is a McCain plant.

[coryco]

It's telling that his tax lien is about the same as what his tax cut would be under Obama's plan!

[bonchesva]

I do not believe McCain cares about "Joe the plumber", or "Joe six-pack" for that matter. I thought McCain's body language said it all at the debate.....he's a shifty, shady character.

[microbeast29]

To justsaynotofascism :

You obviously know nothing about small business in the construction industry. I am a contractor myself, yes Jo is not licensed, and here is why. In order to be licensed, you have to file Articles of Incorporation, meaning, the first stages of forming your own company. The license board will not grant you a license unless you have a company already! Joe never said he owned a company, but wanted to buy his bosses business. Joe can currently work under his bosses contractors license, legally, that's how companies work, there is 1 qualifier (the guy with the license) and his employees work under him, they can also be unsupervised..

[Tzimisce]

Not the case where Wurzelbacher works.
Lucas County, where Wurzelbacher and his employer reside, requires plumbers who perform work including sanitary drainage, water supply, storm drainage, and natural gas piping, to have licenses.

http://www.contractor-licensing.com/ohio/plumbing-license.html

[sonofsamphm1c]

Darn that county. Don't they know the Republicans are running an important national deception here?

[sonofsamphm1c]

The county official in charge of the issue says neither Joe or his boss has a plumbing license in that county.

Joe now says he is applying for a license. His boss? Who knows.

[Tzimisce]

It's also pretty amusing that you appear to have registered just to post this comment, which is so easily debunked.

[milo h minderbinder]

You work in the state of Ohio? Or you think the licensing of plumbers is the same in every state?

That's not what the state of Ohio says. At the very least he needs a journeyman or apprentice license, which he does not have. He also has never joined the plumber's union, they have never even heard of the guy.

I'll bet "Joe" and his boss get investigated over this.

[MarkInEugene]

The more money you make, the OTHER people are required to support your wealth. For example Larry Ellison, the CEO of Oracle requires millions of people including a hell of a lot of expensive infrastructure: ports, trains, trucks, commerce, an educated employee pool and on and on. Most people require very little to subsist on, but not millionaires !!!!

This is the reason why wealthy individuals should pay progressively higher tax. I'll leave it up to actuaries to determine how much higher. The point is, these people that say they should not pay more, use more of what this society is built on! There wealth requires a lot of buyers, sellers, distribution networks, etc.

As someone point out Joe the Plumber who's all bent out of shape for paying extra measly $1500 a year out of his quarter million dollar income. It is pure nonsense that so little an increase will prevent him from purchasing this business. LIES and GREED is what this is about.

Nobody wants to see hard working American's be penalized and these screams of Marxism are ludicrous! We all have to contribute to the welfare of the state, the environment, and our own health.

In the words of Phil Gramm, stop whining Republicans! And thank your lucky stars when you are wealthy and live in a country that supports and allows you to live the high life. BE GREATFUL AND STOP COMPLAINING!

[justsaynotofascism]

Great post! But...

Joe the Plumber's story has unravelled...

Joe is not a plumber, is not a union member, has never been licensed, has never been to a school or training facility to learn plumbing, and he's been an employee of a licensed plumber for 6 years. He makes somewhere around $40,000 a year, is registered as a republican, and voted in Ohio's 2008 republican primary.

In January, 2007, the Ohio Department of Taxation placed a lien against him because $1,183 in personal property taxes had not been paid, but there has been no action in the case since it was filed.

He's 34, his 13 year old son lives with him, and Joe (Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher) lived in Arizona 1997->2000.

Apart from some of his political views (rightwing/libertarian) which he's shared, that's what has been verified.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081016/NEWS09/810160418/-1/NEWS

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27221645/


***YOU can calculate your tax *SAVINGS* under Obama's plan here:

http://taxcut.barackobama.com/

[Tzimisce]

[cont'd]
From day 1 of his campaign, one of the core aspects of Obama's appeal has been his message of reconciliation of ideas that have until now been characterized as 'left' or 'right'. McCain has been quick to point out that he's voted with the Democratic Party 97% of the time, and that's a fair assessment. But the fact is that the core ideas of the Democratic Party can no longer be defined as leftist by any traditional measures. And in fact, the Republican party has moved FAR to the right during the years of Gingrich and Bush/Cheney. So in fact, there is no real mainstream left wing party remaining in America. It's now Centrist [mainstream Democrats] versus far-Right [mainstream Republicans].

[Tzimisce]

Cold War paranoia.
The last refuge of the scoundrel

The point that McCain and his drones miss is that the independent voter contingent does NOT vote on the basis of ideology. That's why it's not affiliated.

These attempts to paint Obama as hard-left because of alleged ties to Bill Ayers fall on deaf ears because without the specter of Communism looming over and threatening America anymore, the concept of 'hard-left' is rendered meaningless to all but the most ardent partisans. The Independent voters, they make their decisions based on pragmatic reasons. Right now, the economy is in shambles and it's Obama who's been able to much better communicate a cogent message for fixing the problems with it. Will any of his plans actually succeed? I frankly have no idea. I'm not an economist - though a majority of economists seem to believe that while his platform is far from perfect, it's superior to McCain's. The point is that his message is connecting with those independent voters who see pocketbook issues as the most important ones in this election. And those people aren't gonna care if Obama's 'share the wealth' message is somehow socialist because that specific message appeals to those who fall into those middle income brackets and will get a tax break under Obama's proposals.

[PSRinNJ2]

Last post for the night: You are destroying Joe because his question got Obama to answer it candidly, showing what he really is and what he really intends to do. You have hurled insults at me and one of you even threatened me, just for disagreeing with you. Do you know what you are?

[torbin]

I'm not hurling insults at you, just passionately disagreeing that Obama "revealed" he's a marxist. That's untrue.

[sonofsamphm1c]

It's a total lie.

[justsaynotofascism]

Too bad you ran away before answering posts. Hope you wake up in the real world.

[questor63]

I am really sorry about hurting your feelings, but bless your heart. People have tried to explain that Joe is Not a plumber, Joe is a lie. I am really sorry. Listen, its simple, Dems believe that you shound Not give 1% of the population all the wealth and hope they will throw you some crumbs. We found out over the last 8 years, they just take all their crumbs and buy a plane or something. We just want a fair shot at the American Dream. What Obama really wants to do is give us all a shot at this American Dream.

[who38]

As I understand it, Obama plans to use a 3% tax increase on income above $250,000 to fund social programs? If that is what he really is, I am more than happy to vote for him. You must understand that any person who must pay the extra tax can circumvent that by making a charitable deduction in the taxable amount, or opening a Roth IRA or a 401K, or giving money to relatives, etc. There are many loopholes that would allow a taxpayer to reduce their income below the $250,000 mark. Most of those people know this; that is why they are making more that $250,000 per year.

[justsaynotofascism]

The latest in the Joe NOT the plumber saga...

John McCain, in his tux and white tie, stood at the podium tonight at the Alfred Smith Memorial Foundation dinner and USED Joe once again. He was the butt of McCain's jokes and was laughed at heartily by that elitist S.O.B.

McCain couldn't care less about Joe. He only wanted to use him. McCain doesn't care are YOU either.

[bonchesva]

"justsaynotofascism" - You hit the nail on the head! McCain doesn't care at all about "Joe the plumber", or "Joe six-pack!" He would do just about anything to win. Look who he picked for his VP.....just to WIN! Do you notice how uncomfortable he seems in his ow skin? I've noticed it before but really saw it tonight when he and Obama were at that event this evening. He has very shifty eyes, which is a good indication that you can't trust that person.

[BobC46]

I have great respect for Joe, and zero respect for 0bama.

[justsaynotofascism]

You choose to admire the lying fraud. I'll take the honest man.

Barack Obama!

[TN]

You don't know Joe, you just say him for about 2 minutes and you don't know Palin cause she has answered less questions from reporters than Joe. You republicans just crack me up.

[justsaynotofascism]

We've been living in Bizarro World for the last 8 years and it's normal to them. Amazing, isn't it?

Orwellian

[Doug77]

I don't know how you could have respect for Joe. For someone who has been on tv all day espousing American exceptionalism and bastardized Jeffersonian small government pap, he really has no ambition at all. He's a plumber, and an insult to anyone who understands the origins of the small government movement. Jefferson believed in the pure possibility of man (by man he meant white males) shouldn't be hindered by government. Is anyone in the government trying to stop Joe from being a plumber? Did I miss some strict anti-plumbing legislation? Don't get me wrong it's fine if he wants to be a plumber, I worked my way through college as a janitor, I'm not making a class argument. Merely observing that Joe is one of many who mindlessly cling to the phrase "my money" and complain about big government when they aspire to nothing more than the mundane. His Straussian proclamations that the U.S. is the best country (he didn't elaborate on his metric for that judgement) and we shouldn't apologize only serve to illustrate the nearly complete absence of conscious thought on his part; he's a caricature and, while I find him embarrassing, were I a conservative, I would find him shameful.

[justsaynotofascism]

Joe isn't a plumber afterall. Look for my post up-thread for the story.

[DingoDave]

Which do you respect more?
That he is an unlicensed tradesperson, or that he is a tax cheat, or that he appears to be totally clueless about how Obama's proposals for tax reform would actually operate in the United States if the Democrats are elected?

[BobC46]

Obama's tax reform would "refund" money to those millions who do not pay a penny federal income tax, or correctly obama would give welfare payment in exchange for votes for democrats at Joe's expense.

[who38]

Then, sad to say, your respect is irrelevant.