"Joe The Plumber" Speaks: "It's Pretty Surreal"

UPDATE : Joe the Plumber: McCain "Appalled Me," Made Me Feel "Dirty"

COLUMBUS, Ohio � Who is Joe the Plumber?

He is Joe Wurzelbacher, an Ohio man looking to buy a plumbing business who came to symbolize the notion of "spreading the wealth" in Wednesday night's third and final presidential debate between Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain.

Earlier this week, when Wurzelbacher got a chance to speak with Obama when the candidate visited Toledo, he told Obama that his tax plan would keep him from buying the business that currently employs him.

Sensing an opening in the debate, McCain cited that exchange when the candidates were asked to explain why their economic plans are better than their opponent's. McCain said Obama's plan would stop entrepreneurs from investing in new small businesses and keep existing ones from growing.

"Joe wants to buy the business that he has been in for all of these years, worked 10, 12 hours a day. And he wanted to buy the business but he looked at your tax plan and he saw that he was going to pay much higher taxes," McCain challenged Obama.

"You were going to put him in a higher tax bracket which was going to increase his taxes, which was going to cause him not to be able to employ people, which Joe was trying to realize the American dream," McCain said.

McCain then looked directly into the TV camera and said: "Joe, I want to tell you, I'll not only help you buy that business that you worked your whole life for and I'll keep your taxes low and I'll provide available and affordable health care for you and your employees. And I will not stand for a tax increase on small business income."

Obama denied that was true.

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"Not only do 98 percent of small businesses make less than $250,000, but I also want to give them additional tax breaks, because they are the drivers of the economy," Obama said. "They produce the most jobs."

So what did Wurzelbacher (pronounced whur-zell-BAHK-er) think about being at the center of the debate?

"It's pretty surreal, man, my name being mentioned in a presidential campaign," he said minutes after hearing McCain utter his name.

In Toledo on Sunday, Wurzelbacher told Obama that he was preparing the company, which earns more than $250,000 a year, and said: "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?"

Obama said that under his proposal taxes on any revenue from $250,000 on down would stay the same, but that amounts above that level would be subject to a 39 percent tax, instead of the current 36 percent rate.

"And the reason why we're doing that is because 95 percent of small businesses make less than 250 (thousand). So what I want to do is give them a tax cut. I want to give all these folks who are bus drivers, teachers, auto workers who make less, I want to give them a tax cut," he said.

Wurzelbacher protested, saying he's been a hardworking plumber for 15 years and why should he be taxed more.

"It's not that I want to punish your success," Obama said. "I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you that they've got a chance at success, too."

At a later point in the discussion, Obama said: "I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody. But listen, I respect what you do and I respect your question, and even if I don't get your vote, I'm still gonna be working hard on your behalf because small businesses are what creates jobs in this country and I want to encourage it."

Wurzelbacher's name came up again when the debate turned to a discussion of health care policies.

He said Obama's reaction on the tax question left him feeling uneasy.

"I didn't think much of it the first time I heard it," Wurzelbacher said, adding that he still thinks Obama's plan would keep him from buying the business.

About McCain: "He's got it right as far as I go."

Even so, Wurzelbacher declined to say which candidate would get his vote on Nov. 4.

"That's for me and a button to know," he said.

___

On the Net:

McCain: http://www.johnmccain.com

Obama: http://www.barackobama.com

Comments

[elZaphod]

When my wife started her brief career as a Realtor, she incorporated and kept all business expenditures (many) and revenues (few) separate from our personal return. It was easy, took about a day and a couple hundred bucks if I recall correctly. If old Joe is too dumb to do that the hell with him. Probably been sniffing too much Drano. Sorry, my coworkers and I have been having a running email joke about this guy all day.

[CBS]

Here is a man who is not a plumber but works for a plumber and who allegedly owes back taxes and is worried that he will net out 250K and have to pay more taxes under Obama's plan. Where do the Reeps find these people??? The poor man will probably have even more financial problems than he can imagine after this. And the point that is being made on MSNBC is the failure of the McCain campaign to vet this guy. Sound familiar? Think Sarah Palin.

[WallStreetNobody]

Why is HuffPost so behind on this story? This guy has been all over the networks railing against Obama calling him a socialist, meanwhile every other blog and even the MSM have outed this guy for being a complete fraud - he's not a plumber, he doesn't pay his taxes, and he only makes $40,000 per year so would pay much less in taxes under Obama than he would under McCain.

[wrathofcon]

Some families with an income of $40,000 could lose up to 40 cents in vanishing credits for every additional dollar earned from working overtime or taking a new job. As public policy, this is contradictory. The tax credits are sold in the name of "making work pay," but in practice they can be a disincentive to working harder, especially if you're a lower-income couple getting raises of $1,000 or $2,000 a year. One mystery -- among many -- of the McCain campaign is why it has allowed Mr. Obama's 95% illusion to go unanswered.

well he is getting screw by Obama no matter what he makes.

[TrueThis]

Under the Obama Biden Tax Calculator show that if a family makes $40,000 he would get a tax cut of $1036+ and under McCain's tax cut of only $472. Middle class would actually get screwed under McCain plan. Facts not fiction.

http://taxcut.barackobama.com/

[GuyFawkes]

This GOP plant is going to start sprouting roots pretty soon.

[Budokan]

He's not a plumber but he is Joe the Republican.

[ProfessorVP]

I understand Joe is "flabbergasted" by all the media attention and prefers to live his life privately. So naturally, he called a press conference this morning outside his house. Of course! Who wouldn't?

[GeoLee]

Perhaps Samuel the Sham would be a better name for this guy. Why should he worry about about any small business taxes? It sounds like he does not pay all is taxes anyway. ..he has tax liens against him, has not license in the county that requires one...he may be a good an decent guy, but is it not convenient that his middle name is Joseph.

[TrueThis]

Did you see the house? It didn't look like a house of an enterpenur that makes $250,000.

[MojoHand]

So Joe is not a licensed plumber and has never even apprenticed or passed a plumbing test. Maybe we should start calling him Joe the Non-Plumber. This freak has about as much chance of buying that business as I do. He doesn't make even 50K much less over 250K, plus he's got a lien on his house for unpaid taxes. To cap it all off he says he's opposed to Social Security. Maybe the best name for him is "Joe the Tool". Typical know-nothing McCain supporter.

P.S. Another black-eye for McPalin. Joe must be in the bag for Obama too.

[GuyFawkes]

His name's not even Joe, apparently.

This is all a set up, a way to play on Palin's "Say it isn't so, Joe", and - la! - a real Joe.

[LaMosca]

Yeah -- he's actually "Sam the Shyster"

[red-or-green]

Wait, didn't Obama meet with "Joe"? But he is McCain's "buddy"? Is this the Republicans stealing yet another piece of Democrat's marketing efforts. You know, like "change"?

[mvkolar]

Isn't it interesting that as McCain's advertising budget is running low, suddenly Joe 6'pack becomes real in the person of Joe Plumber? What an amazing effective form of free advertising. I smell a plant. Am I the only person in America who can see the strategy involved here? Or does everyone have such a blind faith in 'coincidence'? Come on now people. Think.

[Mishymalkin]

He wasn't a plant. McCain's campaign is stupid, but it isn't brain dead.

It is a laughingstock on the news. This is not good press.

[PeterLoffredo]

This morning "Morning Joe" Scarborough was shilling for John McCain and the ubiquitous "Joe the Plumber," the invisible star of last night's final presidential debate. JTB, it seems, felt really upset that if he started a business and it made a profit of a quarter of million dollars or more, he'd have to pay taxes. HELLO?! The story goes that Joe would rather fire all of his employees, or close down his business, or move it offshore, than pay those doggone taxes.
In the face of the rampant corruption and scandalous pilfering and back-and-bank-breaking financial crisis we're in due to deregulation (as per the trickle down shell gamers), is anyone, besides Joe the Plumber, Morning Joe and John McCain really naive enough to believe that the greedy and ego-driven blowfish of the world would suddenly become benevolent if just given their way? I'm sorry, but didn't we just try that? How'd it go? More jobs? Yeah, for illegal laborers and kids in China. In the U.S., the unemployment rate is at a 4-year high. Cheap prices? The Consumer Price Index just went up again by close to 10 percent, while real wages have declined. Better goods? How did your kid like the lead-painted toys from China?
C'mon, Morning Joe! Wake up and smell the coffee!
Peter Loffredo
http://fullpermissionliving.blogspot.com/

[Speakupper]

Joe is emblematic of the middle class voter that is duped into voting against his own best economic interests because he aspires to be wealthy some day. In the meantime, they keep electing people whose policies make it harder for them to actually get ahead in the real world.

I think Joe's story is what is referred to as a "teachable moment". Obama may not get Joe's vote, but this should be a great way to illustrate the real differences between Obama's policies for small businesses vs McCain's.

[EarthToZoey]

Agreed 100%. Great post.

[Budokan]

Excellent, incisive point.

[Tblack]

duped really is the keyword...time and time again...duped.

The worst part is..he's one of the rare people have a short convo with Barak...Obama took his question seriously....gave him a answer...and all Joe did was lie to his face and put his bald head under the scrutiny of the entire free world.

[TheNoBullExpress]

After the morning talk shows, internet news and daily mega dose of coffee, I had to 'sit down' with the paper and couldn't stop thinking about comments from Joe The Plumber.

All I could smell was Karl Rove

[TN]

Just like everything else McCain does, this whole Joe the Plumber thing is going to backfire. when we get done vetting Joe the Plumber, he's going to make McCain look like the fool that he is. There is no way in hill that that guy's got 2 million to buy his boss's business. If that business nets after payroll, supplies, gas, depreciation and repairs, 250,000, than that business is worth at least 2 million dollars.

This is all made up, or some kind of pipe dream. Joe the plumber says this will be gone in two days, he wishes. Me's thinks Joe's a fake.

[StephenJK]

How much do you REALLY have to make in order to fall into that 250K threshold?

My guess is that you would have to make a lot more money than 250K to fall into that income level. What, with tax write-offs, itemization for business expense and all of the rest of it. I'm pretty sure you could make around 300-400K and depending on how good your accountant is and how anal you are, you could squeeze that down below the 250K mark.

Am I wrong here? Is there anything wrong with the numbers I randomly threw out there?

[classc 1]

You are exactly right!!! That is why McCain's position is so ridiculous. Why do you think all economic plans proposed by McCain are designed to help the wealthest 2% in this population stay the wealthiest 2%? It's not a burden to be a business owner...it is the only way to wealth!!!

First of all, as a business owner, you can deduct virtually ANY expense. Looking at the average business owner..here are some very typical expenses. Rent, supplies, materials, employee salaries, your own health insurance, liability insurance, telephone/cell phone, gas/car, entertaining, gifts...etc...the list goes on and on. Trust me...you pay far less proportiantely when you are a business owner than when you are merely an employee. So to actually have earnings of $250,000...an owner is making substantially more...and this is before his or her personal deductions such as children and a mortgage!!!

What do people think that the Rich Dad/Poor Dad books were about? The author understood that in order to ever acheive wealth in this country, you MUST own your own business. That is why that garbage about business paying the second highest rate in the world in taxes is ridiculous. They have a good thing going and want it to continue. The McCain agenda is clear...the wealthiest 2% must maintain their economic position. So yes...it's about class warfare...just maybe not the class groupings that you think.

[sonofsamphm1c]

First, unless you want a roommate in prison, your accountant can only deduct that which is legal to deduct, and it's pretty cut and dried - unlike the heyday of creative accounting where I cut my teeth.

Say a small business has a customary 10% profit, and that is in essence is the owner's salary. That means it would have to gross $2,500,000 in order to drop a $250,000 income on the owner. The deductions would be employee salaries, payroll taxes, state and local taxes, interest expense, utilities, rent, advertising, etc.

Could a 20-man plumbing company gross that? With ease. McBush wants people to believe there are a large number of people out there who are making $250,000 or more, and he's simply lying. There are not.

[etcetc]

yeah- i am a business owner- i grossed 204,000 last year, and was only able to pay myself 35k after i paid all my expenses.

so i'd have to gross a lot lot more to make it to 250k profit

[StephenJK]

Thanks for the info. Five percent of the population should not complain so loudly when they live so comfortably and the proposed tax hike is a mere 3%. They sound as ridiculous as they always have with their whining about the government ripping them off in an alleged scam of "socialism". What a joke.

[tallcoolone47]

How is it that the left can find out anything about Billy Joe Bob Nobody in 72 hours, but we can't get the skinny on Obama's connections to Acorn, Tony Rezko or Bill Ayers in over 2 years??

[AtlantaBlueNProud]

It could have something to do with you not being very smart. You ever google?

[EarthToZoey]

Gee, maybe because there is no "there there".

Try taking the tinfoil hat off and look at the facts, not the cooked up nonsense by gossip blogs.

Also, Daily KOS and HuffPost aren't the bible on information either. Check all of your sources before forming opinions. Critical thinking is good for people on all sides of the issues.

[cariintexas]

Funny? The media is starting to report on some of the EXACT same things that both huffpost and dailykos has reported, AND they're still investigating. I haven't heard anyone on either blog site refer to themselves as " the Bible"

[Frostfly]

two of those three questions were answered (again) in the debate. perhaps you need to open your eyes?

[TN]

Uh, because there isn't anything, duh!

[classc 1]

Unless you are admitting that the right wing moon-n*uts are id*iots...the answer should be obvious...because THERE ARE NO legitimate connections between Obama and these organizations!!! Two years and what do you wing-n*uts have...? Nada!!! Move on already!!!

[dhertzfe]

I watched a video on Yahoo when this guy was interviewed by ABC Good Morning America. He stated “He was contacted by the McCain Campaign to show up at the rally and Obama showed up.” A definite plant by the McCain Campaign.

[EarthToZoey]

That is B.S.

I watched the same Good Morning America video and he stated flat out that he was never contacted by the McCain campaign or any campaign.

Also, the guy LIVES in the neighborhood where OBAMA randomly showed up.

There is no need for conspiracy theories. Obama wins on the issues. Let's stick to them.

[cariintexas]

A B Stoddard just reported on MSNBC that "Joe the Plumber" worked for Mc Cain.

[milo h minderbinder]

E2Z is absolutely right.

Sounds like he was contacted AFTER the debate to come to some future GOP rally.

He had no contact with anyone before meeting Obama, and it wasn't at a rally, it was going through a neighborhood.

[Rondo]

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/joe-in-the-spotlight/?hp

- must read, especially the last paragraph

[FedUp60]

News stories are coming out that Joe the plumber doesn't even have a plumber's license. Did the GOP hire him? We would all like to not pay taxes but where else is the money going to come from? Bush promised no taxes as McBush has. Our economy tanked and an Iraq invasion costing us billions followed. I have paid the most taxes as a middle class citizen making less than $60,000/year and last year for the first time, I ended up paying the IRS even after claiming 0. Joe sounds very selfish stating that if he made a lot of money he wouldn't feel it fair to pay higher taxes. It isn't that much of a tax hike until it gets into the millions!

[CalenHardt]

Here's a fantastic and short photo essay that looks into Joe the Plumber's status as the "most virile political force to come out of Ohio since Presidents Harrison, Harding, Garfield and McKinley."

http://www.dfw.com/124/gallery/50724.html