California Gay Marriage Banned As Proposition 8 Passes

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First Posted: 11- 5-08 12:14 PM   |   Updated: 12- 6-08 05:12 AM

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LOS ANGELES - In an election otherwise full of liberal triumphs, the gay rights movement suffered a stunning defeat as California voters approved a ban on same-sex marriages that overrides a recent court decision legalizing them.

The constitutional amendment -- widely seen as the most momentous of the nation's 153 ballot measures -- will limit marriage to heterosexual couples, the first time such a vote has taken place in a state where gay unions are legal.

Gay-rights activists had a rough election elsewhere as well. Ban-gay-marriage amendments were approved in Arizona and Florida, and Arkansas voters approved a measure banning unmarried couples from serving as adoptive or foster parents. Supporters made clear that gays and lesbians were their main target.

In California, with 95 percent of precincts reporting Wednesday, the ban had 5,125,752 votes, or 52 percent, while there were 4,725,313 votes, or 48 percent, opposed.

Similar bans had prevailed in 27 states before Tuesday's elections, but none were in California's situation -- with about 18,000 gay couples married since a state Supreme Court ruling in May. The state attorney general, Jerry Brown, has said those marriages will remain valid, although legal challenges are possible.

Spending for and against the amendment reached $74 million, making it the most expensive social-issues campaign in U.S. history and the most expensive campaign this year outside the race for the White House.

Elsewhere, voters in Colorado and South Dakota rejected measures that could have led to sweeping bans of abortion, and Washington became only the second state -- after Oregon -- to offer terminally ill people the option of physician-assisted suicide.

A first-of-its-kind measure in Colorado, which was defeated soundly, would have defined life as beginning at conception. Its opponents said the proposal could lead to the outlawing of some types of birth control as well as abortion.

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The South Dakota measure would have banned abortions except in cases of rape, incest and serious health threat to the mother. A tougher version, without the rape and incest exceptions, lost in 2006. Anti-abortion activists thought the modifications would win approval, but the margin of defeat was similar, about 55 percent to 45 percent of the vote.

"The lesson here is that Americans, in states across the country, clearly support women's ability to access abortion care without government interference," said Vicki Saporta, president of the National Abortion Federation.

In Washington, voters gave solid approval to an initiative modeled after Oregon's "Death with Dignity" law, which allows a terminally ill person to be prescribed lethal medication they can administer to themselves. Since Oregon's law took effect in 1997, more than 340 people -- mostly ailing with cancer -- have used it to end their lives.

The marijuana reform movement won two prized victories, with Massachusetts voters decriminalizing possession of small amounts of the drug and Michigan joining 12 other states in allowing use of pot for medical purposes.

Henceforth, people caught in Massachusetts with an ounce or less of pot will no longer face criminal penalties. Instead, they'll forfeit the marijuana and pay a $100 civil fine.

The Michigan measure will allow severely ill patients to register with the state and legally buy, grow and use small amounts of marijuana to relieve pain, nausea, appetite loss and other symptoms.

Nebraska voters, meanwhile, approved a ban on race- and gender-based affirmative action, similar to measures previously approved in California, Michigan and Washington. Returns in Colorado on a similar measure were too close to call.

Ward Connerly, the California activist-businessman who has led the crusade against affirmative action, said Obama's victory proved his point. "We have overcome the scourge of race," Connerly said.

Energy measures met a mixed fate. In Missouri, voters approved a measure requiring the state's three investor-owned electric utilities to get 15 percent of their electricity from renewable sources by 2021. But California voters defeated an even more ambitious measure that would have required the state's utilities to generate half their electricity from windmills, solar systems, geothermal reserves and other renewable sources by 2025.

Two animal-welfare measures passed -- a ban on dog racing in Massachusetts, and a proposition in California that outlaws cramped cages for egg-laying chickens.

Amid deep economic uncertainty, proposals to cut state income taxes were defeated decisively in North Dakota and Massachusetts.

In San Francisco, an eye-catching local measure -- to bar arrests for prostitution -- was soundly rejected. Police and political leaders said it would hamper the fight against sex trafficking. And in San Diego, voters decided to make permanent a ban on alcohol consumption on city beaches.


Ellen Urges California Residents To Vote No On Prop 8Ellen Urges California Residents To Vote No On Prop 8

Obama: California Gay Marriage Ban "Unnecessary"

LOS ANGELES - In an election otherwise full of liberal triumphs, the gay rights movement suffered a stunning defeat as California voters approved a ban on same-sex marriages that overrides a recent co...
LOS ANGELES - In an election otherwise full of liberal triumphs, the gay rights movement suffered a stunning defeat as California voters approved a ban on same-sex marriages that overrides a recent co...
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Jesus, I could have sworn we just had a progressive election and this was 2008, not 1938.
When are we ever going to stop treating fellow groups of peoples as sub-human?
That's all this amounts to, plain and simple.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:45 PM on 11/06/2008
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"dana72,"

Homophobia is like racism; both derail reason, and rot the souls and minds of the afflicted.

Your rant is frankly filled with racist overtones - I suspect unintended- as it is with genuine frustration with the Black evangelicals and their vocal, religious-based homophobic sermons of condemnation.

But that is the nature of *fear* grounded in *ignorance:* it makes mortal enemies out of those who by all rights should be the staunchest of allies.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 AM on 11/07/2008

This Was a progressive election. Democrats won, abortion rights and animals were protected, even astonishingly MTA measure passed. Perhaps the GL community notion that gay marriage rights are a part of progressive agenda is just that-- a claim. Food for thought.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 PM on 11/07/2008
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Here's some *food for thought* on this issue:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harvey-fierstein/historic-for-some-same-ol_b_142170.html

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 11/07/2008
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Will we EVER as a community get ANGRY ENOUGH to do something besides hold signs, chant, and donate millions to organizations?

"How's That Working For You"?

As ALL of these ANTI-LOVE, ANTI-FAMILY amendments and propositions continue to keep LGBT U.S. citizen's legal status as SUB-Americans, don't you feel good as U.S. tax-payers, knowing that your own state and country says your family and children are worthless in the eyes of the law while they take your money? Angry yet? No?!

Then keep paying your taxes and acting like everything is OK; keep playing by the rules, even though these "rules" do not even INCLUDE you OR your children!

Self-respect and self-esteem...............anyone? It is officially a Culture Tax War.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 PM on 11/06/2008
- kiwi1 I'm a Fan of kiwi1 7 fans permalink

No it's YOU who are Anti-family....

To make a Family you need the union of a man and woman.
Interesting thought tho... put 100 gay and lesbian couples on an Island and after 90 years the population would be "0"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 PM on 11/06/2008
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Hey, sport, better get your facts straight (pun deliberate) about this subject before you spout off:

http://www.guerrillascholar.com/cogito/?p=78

So do tell, how does being gay and wanting to marry your partner constitute a threat to the family?

Do tell.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:31 PM on 11/06/2008
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You can spurt out a baby. Brava! Really...impressive.

Too bad so many of YOU abandon your children, then complain when WE want to LOVE and RAISE them as our own. But it is YOU who are anti-family (my family), so YOU and EVERYONE ELSE can pay my taxes.

Please, by all means.....vote on that!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 AM on 11/08/2008

Homosexuals are a bit of a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. The main problem is that the square peg expects the round hole to be completely accommodating while being unrelenting themselves.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:54 AM on 11/08/2008

Among the astonishing amount of verbiage and attacks from GL community no discussion of facts, just melodrama.

Compared to California's registered Domestic partner law, what rights PRECISELY were lost in California due to 8?

Anyone willing to talk facts here?

Or are you all auditioning for amateur "Waiting for Guffman" production.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:16 PM on 11/06/2008

I would like to know more facts as well, but it's easy to look up. you're being lazy if you are interested and don't know. Magister, you don't have to be a condescending jerk to get your point accross. I live in Texas, straight, black female and I thinks gays should have to right to marry, but I think that gays really need all of the rights of a straight married couple, but because the word marriage is such a hot issue maybe it can be called a civil union. I think many straights just have a problem with it being called marriage and not with gays having the rights that go along with it. So just change the name for now and tell everyone you are married. However, either way I will support my GLTB brothers and sisters. Many religious white, blacks, and latino's voted yes for prop 8. It's the mormons that pushed this issue.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 PM on 11/06/2008

In another words you don't know the difference. Thank you for contributing more verbiage. Too bad no facts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 PM on 11/06/2008
- PlantGod72 I'm a Fan of PlantGod72 47 fans permalink
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When your 'marriage' is dissolved, or you are denied a marriage license, when you have to explain at the hospital, school, bank, insurance company, credit union, mortgage company, property manager/rental agent's office, etc, etc, AD INFINITUM, just WHAT exactly your spouse is to you, and why they should be acknowledged as your family, THEN come back and tell me how WILLING you are to discuss "just the facts".

Till then, save your smug 'requirements' for engagement!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 11/06/2008

Registered domestic partnership agreement takes care of ALL of the points in your post: credit union, insurance, school, bank,, hospital.... You know that and I know that. But thanks for melodrama.
Anyone with facts? Still waiting...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 PM on 11/06/2008

The Melodrama was all that propoganda about marriage, traditional families, and children being under attack from a bunch of people trying to opt into convention. The soft lighting, the upset mom cuddling her child as the voice over explanins that her daughter might be taught that two women could marry. Talk about melodrama.

All this hoo haw about using marriage to protect children. There's a new convention. Traditionally children have been sold and traded into marriage in exchange for property and money. Maybe we should push for a return to traditional marriage the way its been for a couple of thousands of years! Scary, huh?

But truth does not really matter in this debate. Things are changing. Support domestic partnership AND marriage for heteros and homos equally!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 11/06/2008

Agreed KSD, that some Yes on 8 ads were pure melodrama. Marriage to support children is a disingenuous argument. Yes.
But the hysterics from No on 8 didn't raise to rational debate, either. All that malarkey about Martin Luther King and Founding Fathers and theocracy was pixie dust.
And neither of the parties were ( are) willing to climb off the high horse and have a rational discussion.

The fact is that Dom.Partners and Civil Union is identical for all intents and purposes. NO ONE seems to produce a rational argument to the contrary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 PM on 11/06/2008

All we have to do is to look to Massachusetts to see what happened when homosexual marriage was allowed to take root..... and yes, all the things the "yes on 8" people claimed actually happened.

Prop 8 is really about protecting religious freedom from the far left, not about eliminating individual rights which are protected by AB 205.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:51 AM on 11/10/2008

Ok, I'll bite.

Barack Obama, who was born in the U.S. during a time that many states would not recognize his parents' mixed-race marriage, supports "SEPARATE BUT EQUAL" civil unions for gays. While the irony of that sinks in, please read on....

TO ALL WHO OPPOSE GAY MARRIAGE:
Most of you support separate domestic partnerships for gay people, but please listen to why that doesn't work.
The federal and state governments give married people about 1400 rights which are NOT easily codified in a single enforceable legal document. Domestic partnerships permit some of the 400 state rights and NONE of the 1000 federal ones. This leaves us to seek inclusion in the one word that currently encompasses all 1400: "marriage". That's all we're asking.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:27 AM on 11/07/2008

Respectfully, you're just cut-pasting a website without any understanding material contained within.

We're discussing CALIFORNIA Domestic Partnership-- with--- CALIFORNIA marriage law.

Proposition 8 passage ( or it failure) would bring NO changes to federal law. NONE.

Back to google :-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 PM on 11/07/2008

Domestic partnerships permit some of the 400 state rights and NONE of the 1000 federal ones.
---------------------------------
Sounds like a good reason to support anti-federalism

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 AM on 11/08/2008
- PlantGod72 I'm a Fan of PlantGod72 47 fans permalink
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As the LDS (Mormon) Church was instrumental in funding and pushing for this dispicable legislation, I called their administrative offices today, stating that I was calling for personal reasons regarding the church involvement with Prop 8 in California. The woman stated that they had received a number of calls already, and put me through to James Arne(?) who took my call.

I told him in a conversation (mostly a monologue) that lasted 5 minutes or so why I felt the church should NOT have interferred with what is a FAMILY issue, and asked him how he felt about what he and his church had accomplished. Somewhat to my surprise, he responded that he had "mixed feelings" about the action as he has 2 gay members in his own family. I went on to explain how this will impact my life, how his church has conveniently changed its own ideologies in the past to suit mainstream society---i.e. polygamy, blacks in clergy, etc---and how dispicable it is to disrupt and destroy the families of others.

He gave me all the time I wanted, and was very polite. I don't know what impact a conversation like this has, but I had to do SOMETHING to let these people know their actions and prejudices affect REAL people, and REAL families. I suggest you do likewise!

LDS offices: 801-240-2205

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/contact-us

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 PM on 11/06/2008

Be careful when you let the majority take rights away from the minority.....you may be next...........

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:44 PM on 11/06/2008

If you think that the victory of Prop 8 blows, then get on the horn with your senator, and representative, their leadership, and the Obama transition team and urge them toward swift and comprehenisve federal domestic partnership legislation and equal protection. The victory of Prop 8 should move this to the top of your to do list, and that of your new government in Washington. Don't wait until February, don't be lax about it. Take ownership of the agenda.

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

And remember to support domestic partnership rights for heterosexual couples also.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 PM on 11/06/2008
- janinius I'm a Fan of janinius 15 fans permalink
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As three more states - including one of the more liberal in the union - lined up against gay marriage on tuesday, I am reminded of UShistory and philosphy courses.

Freedom from religious persecution is a tenant in both the declaration of independence and the constitution our great country. What was experienced in CA,AZ,FL and AR, is EXACTLY that.

A fear expressed by Plato, Aristotle, Madison, Tocqueville, and J.S.Mill. If the majority rules, what is to stop it from expropriating the minority, or from tyrannizing it by enforcing the majority's religion, language, or culture? Madison's answer in The Federalist is the best known. He argued that the United States must have a federal structure. Although one majority, left to itself, would try to tyrannize the local minority in one state or city and another majority, left to itself, would do the same in another, in a country as large and diverse as the United States there would not be one national majority which could tyrannize over a national minority. But if there was, the powers which the states retained would be a bulwark against it. The separation of powers among legislature, executive, and judiciary at federal level would be a further protection against majority tyranny.

Critics of Madison have pointed out that his formula gives no protection to minorities which do not form a local majority anywhere. IE until the 1960s, the states' rights were used by the white majorities in the Southern states to oppress the local black minorities.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 AM on 11/06/2008

The definition of a bigot… is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.

Congratulations to the majority of Californians that voted yes on proposition 8. Your vote has made you a BIGOT!

Denying families that don’t fit your narrow view of what defines a family, and the rights that they should be equally entitled to IS WRONG. You are on the wrong side of history, and this shameful bigotry will not amend the constitution of California for long.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 AM on 11/06/2008
- wdw101 I'm a Fan of wdw101 20 fans permalink

it will give other states the time to do the same thing

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 PM on 11/06/2008

Can you please list precisely what rights were lost in Cal., if you can.
Compare to California's registered Domestic partner law.

Otherwise stop auditioning for the cast of Les Miserables.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 PM on 11/06/2008

Unfortunately young heterosexual couples in California are being discriminated against by not having the option to opt out of marriage in favor of domestic partnership. Please join me in supporting expanding domestic partnership laws in California to my heterosexual friends. Let's end the injustice now!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 PM on 11/06/2008
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At a rally last night in a gay neighborhood in Los Angeles, it was announced the owner of a popular restaurant contributed $6,000 to Yes on 8.

We may be a despised minority, but we have economic clout within our neighborhoods. The boycotts will begin now.

Don't expect me to patronize your business if you give money to enshirine discrimination and inequality into our State Constitution.

A bigot is entitled to free speech. Fair enough, but that same bigot is not entitled to our contribution to his livelihood.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:00 AM on 11/06/2008
- madzippy I'm a Fan of madzippy 2 fans permalink

Let's start now. What's the name of the restaurant?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:21 AM on 11/06/2008
- janinius I'm a Fan of janinius 15 fans permalink
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YES please advise . .. i have many friends in LA and am there quite often

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 AM on 11/06/2008
- wdw101 I'm a Fan of wdw101 20 fans permalink

just as we boycott the businesses that cater to the gay agenda

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:40 AM on 11/06/2008
- klandish I'm a Fan of klandish 83 fans permalink
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You never spent money on Gay businesses.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:44 AM on 11/06/2008
- janinius I'm a Fan of janinius 15 fans permalink
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good luck with THAT one. guess you won't be watching anymore tv or movies in the future ... not to mention, forget new clothing, computers and cars... a $ $

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:35 AM on 11/06/2008

Yes, ProudDan.
So how you going to identify gay owned business ? Maybe all gay owned business will place a pink triangle in the window? What silly melodrama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 PM on 11/06/2008

The Melodrama was all that propoganda about marriage, traditional families, and children being under attack from a bunch of people trying to opt into convention. The soft lighting, the upset mom cuddling her child as the voice over explanins that her daughter might be taught that two women could marry. Talk about melodrama.

All this hoo haw about using marriage to protect children. There's a new convention. Traditionally children have been sold and traded into marriage in exchange for property and money. Maybe we should push for a return to traditional marriage the way its been for a couple of thousands of years! Scary, huh?

But truth does not really matter in this debate. Things are changing. Support domestic partnership AND marriage for heteros and homos equally!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:06 PM on 11/06/2008

It's so disheartening to me that on the day many Americans voted to see the civil rights movement come to fruition in Barack Obama, they also chose to strip civil rights from their fellow citizens.

When I woke up after an election night of triumph to read this news, I couldn't help but cry. I'm so torn between joy and sadness, hope and devastation.

I can only continue to fight for my rights and the rights of my gay, lesbian, and bisexual brothers and sisters, and believe we will be able to love and commit freely someday soon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 AM on 11/06/2008
- wdw101 I'm a Fan of wdw101 20 fans permalink

not any time soon

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:41 AM on 11/06/2008
- janinius I'm a Fan of janinius 15 fans permalink
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does it hurt to fear your own urges?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 AM on 11/06/2008

Don't be so sure wdw. You're living in the blue now. Dread it all you want, but things are going to change.

We've got lots of great momentum and control of the judiciary. People may be feeling bruised up by prop 8, but in general Tuesday's general election was a massive defeat for the right wing. Prepare yourself.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:16 PM on 11/06/2008

You're a very sad individual. I pity you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:51 PM on 11/07/2008
- Keith52 I'm a Fan of Keith52 38 fans permalink
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I think the only way to get around this is to write a proposal that says Marriage is not a reason to receive benefits beyond individual benefits... of any kind. That will stop these people from caring if gays get married. Then individual benefits should be increased. Also benefits for people with children wether they be adopted or not. That would be a good compromise.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:10 AM on 11/06/2008

At least three separate legal challenges to Prop 8 area already being mounted.

Despite what many people are saying about how it can't be fought in court because it changes the Constitution, that isn't entirely correct.

People who would argue differently forget Colorado's Amendment 2. After it passed by a majority of voters in that state by targeting gays to strip them of any ability to claim discrimination, the court challenge mounted against the amendment won at every level right up to the US Supreme Court.

Prop 8 can be legally attacked in several ways, not first of which is the method it used to fundamentally alter the equal protection rights of a targeted group of people. The CA Supreme Court didn't hear that case before the election, but then they traditionally don't like to get involved in "speculative" cases. In this instance, the fact that Prop 8 losing would've made the case moot and a waste of their time.

This isn't over.

At the very minimum if the courts decide that Prop 8 was sound according to the rules it was passed under, then a simply majority vote should also be able to UNDO the prop. And from the look of it, there's more than enough good will out there to get an anti-Prop 8 measure in front of the voters again every couple of years until it wins.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:39 AM on 11/06/2008
- Crozier I'm a Fan of Crozier 69 fans permalink

You know, for gay and lesbian families seeking to obtain rights under law......" every couple of years until it wins" runs counter to what President-elect Obama calls ' THE FIERCE URGENCY OF NOW."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:57 AM on 11/06/2008
- klandish I'm a Fan of klandish 83 fans permalink
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Absolutely.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:46 AM on 11/06/2008
- LCRover001 I'm a Fan of LCRover001 22 fans permalink

I wonder how many of the pro lifes out ther would bare a gay child?

Those who fought against the civil rights also used religion and scripture to back their stance up.

Histroy is repeating its self and it will result in the same out come.

Those who hide behind religion to push hate are not doing God's work, they are doing the work of man.

Although the side of hate and intolerance has won this battle it will not win the war. History has taught us that those who repress others fail.

We are all Americans and we all deserve equality, my wife and I will pray for those of you who allow hate to guide your way that peace and the holy spirit will remove that venom from your hearts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:45 AM on 11/06/2008
- klandish I'm a Fan of klandish 83 fans permalink
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The "war" has just begun. There is no place for this sort of discrimination in our Country. Now that we have a black or multi-racial President this will quickly become the Civil Rights issue of the Century. I'm glad to see there are Spiritual or Religious people like you who understand what Jesus really said. I thank you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:52 AM on 11/06/2008
- wdw101 I'm a Fan of wdw101 20 fans permalink

yes there is a place.......CA

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 AM on 11/06/2008
- Palemoon I'm a Fan of Palemoon 247 fans permalink
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I adore reading stuff about great philosophers and some of our visionary forefathers. Thomas Jefferson is undoubtably one of my favorites, here are some quotes relating to this topic, and which are sure to be quite eye opening....

"The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society."

"Bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate would be oppression."

"Shake off all the fears and servile prejudices under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:46 AM on 11/06/2008
- Crozier I'm a Fan of Crozier 69 fans permalink

Theocracy is the form of government where the theology of a few becomes the civil law of the many. The Roman Catholic Church and the Russian Orthodox Church both had the Christian equivalency of the Islamic fundamentalist states we now see. A probable reason for the lack of religious denominational activity in Europe is the direct result of theocracy. Please note that until 1870 most of Italy was the Papal States - the most oppressive nation in Europe in the 19th century. Russian Orthodoxy was the theocratic underpining for laws in Czarist Russia.

In the USA, an unholy alliance was forged between Roman Catholicism and fundamentalist Protestant evangelicalism. These two entities are engaged in spiritual warfare. The pedophile scandal needed a scapegoat for the Catholics.....and gay families was their kneejerk response.
What can you say about the LDS Church? Mormons with gays and lesbians graduating from their Brigham Young University have had their earned degrees nullified if found to be openly gay or lesbian.

THIS IS THE TIME to make sure that the Courts reaffirm our rights over the will of the majority intent on tyranny over the equal rights of minorities.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:54 AM on 11/06/2008
- wdw101 I'm a Fan of wdw101 20 fans permalink

"Mormons with gays and lesbians graduating from their Brigham Young University have had their earned degrees nullified if found to be openly gay or lesbian."

did they know that was possible?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 AM on 11/06/2008
- NCGigi I'm a Fan of NCGigi 2 fans permalink

Awww, the Mormans just want all the chicks to themselves.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 AM on 11/06/2008
- Palemoon I'm a Fan of Palemoon 247 fans permalink
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That is a thought provoking post you make. I hadn't yet thought of the comparisons in which theological based societies oppressed their citizenry. But it can be seen especially clear in places such as Spain under Isabella's reign. For all her claimed purity, there were the many purges she carried out. Not to mention Spain is, and always will be, infamous for carrying out the most famous of the Inquisitions.

I'll have to ponder all of this more. There might be signs that the USA is slipping into that direction rather than the worry that it was fascism.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:11 PM on 11/06/2008

Many people seem not to understand the language of the California D.P. statute: “Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses.”

The win does nothing, but protect the definition of the word "marriage" as something only a "man and woman" can do. They get divorced as well and then get married again and in some cases again.

At the end of the day does it really matter what it's called if everyone has the same rights?

Could news media report the truth of the matter and the GLTB Community realize they got the last laugh. If it makes people feel better to believe that "Domestic Partnership" is not the same as "Marriage", it shows just how ridiculous people are.

As any emotionally intelligent person knows "Marriage" only has meaning if people are truly committed to each other and that is something only two people can decided for themselves and they can call it whatever they want. Please Note over 20% of all registered Domestic Partners in California are Straight Couples. Congrats Prop 8 organizers on making millions for yourself and duping others into lining your pockets.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:14 AM on 11/06/2008
- Palemoon I'm a Fan of Palemoon 247 fans permalink
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Ultimately, I agree that it doesn't matter what it's called. But whether it's a civil union, or a marriage, they must afford the same benefits to both in order for the name difference to not matter.

I'm a realist in that I know well enough that marriage and religion are two very separate things and they originally existed without each other. By religifyng marriage, is to integrate the Church into the fabric of our Government, which our forefathers were against.

Look at our existing marriage laws. In order for a wedding to count and be recognized by the State/Nation, it must be done a certain way. Either by a J.O.P. or via the Christian Church wedding. One is civil, the other religious. In the case of the religious version, a certain legalese is given to it in the form of making it the official way to be married. All other weddings, won't count and aren't recognized. Including my wish for a Celtic "tying the knot" wedding. I'd have to do that in a separate ceremony after the fact, in order for it to count. And I do not that think that's fair as that to me is a violation of my "freedom of religion" 1st Amendment right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:54 AM on 11/06/2008
- Crozier I'm a Fan of Crozier 69 fans permalink

IMHO, equality of expression to obtain all federal and state legal rights, MUST have retroactive status.

Your grandparents and parents and siblings, yes everyone alive and in a marital state, MUST SURRENDER THEIR MARRIAGE LICENSES AND BE PROVIDED WITH A CIVIL UNION DOCUMENT OR A TYING THE KNOT DOCUMENT.

NO, BUT HELL NO....YOU SAY......WELL SAME BACK TO YOU.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:05 AM on 11/06/2008
- suec03 I'm a Fan of suec03 12 fans permalink

The Domestic Partnership Act is state law and only regulates your status within the state. The federal government is not obligated to treat your domestic partnership like a marriage for purposes of filing joint tax returns or qualifying for survivor benefits under social security, veterans' benefits or government pensions unless the federal government elects to do so. The definition you printed would obligate the state as employer to treat a domestic partner as a spouse, but it does not seem to obligate a private employer to treat domestic partners as spouses.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:03 AM on 11/06/2008
- wdw101 I'm a Fan of wdw101 20 fans permalink

very true

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 AM on 11/06/2008
- suec03 I'm a Fan of suec03 12 fans permalink

What happens when your gay domestic partner's employer transfers your partner to another state where domestic partnerships are not recognized and where the voters have passed a statute to prohibit employers from being required to offer spousal insurance coverage for gay partners?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:26 AM on 11/06/2008
- wdw101 I'm a Fan of wdw101 20 fans permalink

there are no states that require a business to accept another states documents .......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 AM on 11/06/2008
- klandish I'm a Fan of klandish 83 fans permalink
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Yes it does matter what you call it. For the Church that professes love for children this is an abomination against them. Children who live in gay marriages face greater discrimination because they can't say their parents are married like their other friends.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 AM on 11/06/2008

Heterosexual couples where both partners are under the age of 62 are not permitted to register for domestic partnership status in the state of California.

"Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, persons of opposite sexes may not constitute a domestic partnership unless one or both of the persons are over the age of 62."

Separate but equal sucks. Let's do the just thing and extend domestic partnerships to our straight friends. I'm able to secure health care benefits for my registered partner, and vice versa, without having to resort to the alter, so why shouldn't my straight pals be offered the same rights?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:31 AM on 11/07/2008
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