Gay Marriage Bans Succeeding

State amendments to ban gay marriage did well across the country with voters in Arizona and Florida approving proposals to outlaw same-sex marriage and Californians on the verge of passing such an amendment in their state.

The proposal in Arizona was a stripped-down version of an amendment that was narrowly voted down two years ago. In Florida, social conservatives spent millions to push their ballot drive:

Florida's gay marriage amendment drew the most attention, with dueling groups pumping more than $5 million into TV advertising and statewide campaigns. Same-sex marriage has been illegal in Florida since 1997, but supporters argued a constitutional shield was necessary to make sure judges would never overturn the law.

And the most closely-watched gay marriage ban, California's Proposition 8, had slightly more support, 52% to 47%, with almost 60% of precincts reporting.

According to the Los Angeles Times:

A measure to ban gay marriage in California led in early returns Tuesday although the final outcome remained in doubt, leaving advocates on both sides in suspense about the most divisive and emotionally fraught contest in the state this year.

Proposition 8 would amend the California Constitution to define marriage as being only between a man and a woman.

Comments

[GeorgeBeatty]

Why do we all miss the point. The problem is not Christian belief that homosexuality is a sin. Christ taught that to look on a woman inappropriately was a sin.(" All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God") is a fundamental principal of our belief. Another is ("he who claims to be without sin is a liar and the truth is not in him"). Where the rubber meets the road is what is the remedy for sin both mine and yours. The remedy is not to deny it's existence, neither is it to pretend that one sin can be remedied and another not. How foolish it would be of me to believe that Christ's blood was adequate for my folly and not adequate for yours. I sin every day and am still offered the mercy of Christ and the fellowship of my church. I would not condemn my church for condemning my sin however. I will confess it to Christ and receive His forgiveness. Christians owe the same mercy love and forgiveness to the homosexual as they offer me. I owe the homosexual the same fellowship that I offer any other. I can not honestly allow him to believe that I consider him to be without sin. He just has a different one than I do.

[JafafaHots]

Actually, you miss the point.

The point is religion has no place in politics. Nobody has the right to legislate their mythology onto others.

[PresWatch]

Another point is that homosexuality is not a sin; so take your unctuous attitude and stuff it where the sun don't shine!

[liebo76]

Let's put this energy to continue our fight. We have the youth on our side. Change will come, but we need to rise up and demand equal rights and not look back. My heart goes out to all of America that supported equal human rights in California, Arizona, Florida and Arkansas and we still need your help to make this right. We need to rally more of our allies to stand up against the tyranny and fear mongering that make people believe that somehow we have a negative impact on the people of our community, city, state, country and world.

Please stand with me and continue this fight. It will be the fight of our lives. My eyes are opened to what lies our opposition will tell what deceitful campaigning and fear mongering they will stoop to. We have learned a lot in the campaign about what we need to do from here on out.

Change is around the corner for us. But for now, thank you America for voting Obama in. I am proud to be a part of that campaign and I believe that he will be able to help our fight.

[Changeizgood]

Remember words mean something. It is time you categorized the "civil union' for gay couples, that allow for the same rights as married heterosexual citizens. The majority don't want their ceremony of heterosexual union, linked to what they call (excuse me if it sounds... crass" an biblical abomination. You won't be able to teach an old dog new tricks on that one, however, every citizen understands love and rights to see your loved one of how many years. They understand the value of being able to inherit, what your loved ones have left you behind, when their own family members, turned their backs on them, when they came out. Yes We understand.

But the phrase and sanctity of heterosexual marriage, connects them to the very God, that doesn't approve of your union. Fortunately, the Constitution, is not the bible, and you do have rights to be joined.

Just not under the name of "marriage" according to their heterosexual bible or religious books. Therefore, they also see it as "blasphemy" in God's name.

Just try and change that, it will never happen, it's like asking them to renounce God.

So, in compromise.....if the same rights to hospice visits, funerals, inheritance through death of a partner is a problem. Enter it as a "Civil Union Partnership" and try that by the Courts or Constitutional system.

Good luck! I feel for you, we AA have only been able to vote for the last 43 years, and look at the suppression.
spiritually.

Momma

[CSP]

Waiting outside with my bat...expecting those Mormon bicycling boys annnny minute now....lol

[madzippy]

New thread:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/05/california-gay-marriage-b_n_141429.html

[GoodGuysandBadGuys]

ya know, I am glad about obama's victory but this issue shows that we've still got serious amounts of f-heads in this country.

[DavePotts]

The one blotch on an otherwise amazing election Tuesday.

Headline in the Village Voice says something to the effect of, "Cheer up GOP, America still hates gays."

How anyone can not see that two consenting adults have an inalienable right to contract with one another is beyond me. It's an issue of freedom of association, and no matter how you slice it, the ballot measures designed to "protect traditional marriage" are borne of hatred and little else.

[Changeizgood]

Not all Americans hate gays, Jesus taught us to love our neighbors and brothers and sisters.

I claim not one religion, for I am Spiritual and in touch with God's word and Jesus laws by Moses.

These that claim the blood of Jesus, cannot, for they hold hatred in their hearts. Some of you are lawyers, I'm sure you know how to legalize ur sh*t. Go for it.

If you are really serious about your partnership, write WILLS and have them notorized. If you want to take your partners name, then this "Civil Union Partnership" should be used for these purposes, to not allow, contested wills of the partner's wishes.

YES WE CAN??

What do you think, you are a unique sect of people nationally, why not have a devine name to call your partnership, that no one can contest?

Say it: Civil Union Partnership, kinda sounds strong enough to fight in court, eh?

Sounds like a passable law.

[kickingass08]

So what happens to Ellen and Portia? do they have to send back the wedding china? it's so not fair...

[milo h minderbinder]

Good question, is there a solid answer on whether it's retroactive?

[i approve this message]

Not yet. From what I've read, people THINK it's not retroactive. Nothing definitive.

[Changeizgood]

Count themselves lucky and go get a "Civil Union Partnership" judge to notorize and seal your partnership. I would make a way, even if we had to change the name of the cause.

Dig!

[barackcan]

I am gay and totally agree. The problem is that most of my gay friends don't care enough about this issue. Politics are not high on the priority of most gay men for some reason.
Sad.

[jlarue]

We lost this battle, people but not the war!!!!!I It is not over. Be hopeful and persevere. Name calling and anger will not advance our cause......I watched history last night in the presidential election. This is still our history to make!!!!!!

[mrcontinental]

It is not the politicians you have to be concerned with, it is your neighbors that you have to reach out to. The anger and finger pointing does nothing but turn people off and they tune you out. Being accused of being a gay basher half way through the discussion does no one any good and if anything makes people far less likely to even entertain the idea in any meaningful way. Federal legislation will not change anyones mind. Fear, ignorance, intolerance, and bigotry are here to stay but there is always a way to overcome it and lashing out is not it. We have to work together to do it and there are many people out there who are willing to listen as long a the discussion is kept civil but as soon as the venom starts flying it's human nature to fight and resist. None of us are perfect and decades of religious indoctrination will not be overcome over night but when your neighbors can be made to see that there is nothing to fear we will all move forward and the contry will be better for it but until then there is work to be done. 51% against gay marriage is discouraging but 49% for is most encouraging and shows that we are not all homophobes so don't give up on all of us just yet.

[Changeizgood]

Mr. Continental, you are right, I'm of those 49% that want your coupling to be legalized to fight ignorance and fear. But as you have learned in the Obama campaign that truth works and knowledge of the pain. Any movie producers in your lot, that can script and put it on bravo or lifetime.

Also as I said in a few posts up, it's a poor mouse with one hole to climb into. So when a door is closed, look for a window. aka "Civil Union Partnership" This will keep the word hounds at bay, and allow you to call your union legal, for the your rights as a citizen of America under Constitutional law.

Try it, it just may protect you.

Good luck and cheer up, the youth aren't as cookoo. Soon they will all die off and the people will guide their laws for the future, the way we vote again to do it.

Peace.

[JafafaHots]

"Federal legislation will not change anyones mind."

Federal power ended segregation. It took the National Guard. If it had been up to waiting for the people to change their minds, the south would still have Jim Crow.

If it had to wait for slaveholders to be convinced it was wrong to hold slaves, there would still be slaveholders.

We don't have to change their minds. We just have to remove their ability to dictate others' lives. They don't have to like it... but after they have their power to oppress taken away, THEN we can worry about soothing their wounded feelings.

[JHCowboy]

I think that the African American community is the community that our GLBT community needs to reach out to. We should help and serve in any way we can to make their lives better as that could be a huge help. You know that many African American Churches are getting to be more and more Gay supportive and affirmative. I hope this trend continues. Also the rising younger generation is far more supportive of gay marriage than the older folks.

[gypsy508]

The measure has lost in California too. Polls began slipping in favor of the ban about the time the ads hit the airwaves and, in my opinion, the ads opposing the ban were terrible. They were well-produced technically but unfortunately began by explaining that gay marriage did not force teaching the "gay agenda" in school. In other words (for the same reason Democrats used to lose elections) they took the bait. People found themselves watching a commercial about school children and hearing about gay marriage. Dumb. Especially since - to my eye - television commercials in favor of the ban arguing that very point were much fewer (it seems like they bought mostly radio time). The commercials then followed with a very strong "discrimination is wrong" theme, which again was well produced, but they would have been better served explaining the particulars of why marriage is important. I mean, the gay community is not exactly economically disadvantaged like black communities are. It is a seriously stretch to try to compare the two. But there are important reasons why marriage is different from civil unions. I never heard that case in the ads.

[Pigliacci]

Good points, but just remember that the gay community is just as diverse as any other and extends far beyond SOMA. Not all LGBT folks are affluent, and most African Americans, for that matter, are not poor.

[starboymikey]

Actually, one purpose of the American Constitution is to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

It may be hard to imagine, but there was a time when African American were not allow to marry whites. Now imagine an alternate reality were Christians, Jews, Muslims or any group were prevented from marrying freely by popular vote.

The notion that we are somehow "protecting marriage" by legislating that it can only be between a man and a woman is a red herring. Heterosexual marriage is in no danger from "gay marriage," not any more than the institution of marriage was threatened by interracial unions. The main backers of this measure simply used fear and bigotry to force others to bow to the beliefs of religious fanatics who want to control the lives of the rest of us.

We can all expect the success of this measure to open up a gigantic can of worms in terms of prejudicial constitutional amendment by direct popular vote. Want to keep gay students out of your schools, start a ballot measure. Want to keep Muslims out of government? Amend your state constitution by plebiscite.

Here's a question to ponder: under the assumed California law, will transsexuals be allowed to marry "ordinary" men or women? If so, must they be post-op? How about if two transsexuals want to marry each other? I'd love to see a case like this come to court. It will show the country just how absurd these laws are.

[huffnpuffn]

Another question to ponder is how many bigots are going to stand in the way when someone wants to marry a dog? Or how about last decade when Dennis Rodman's married himself? Should his action be legally recognized and protected? Why not?

When anyone can marry anyone or anything, the whole idea of marriage becomes meaningless. That's what the "Yes on 8" crowd fears.

[milo h minderbinder]

The whole "marry a dog" argument is bull.

A dog isn't a consenting adult. They don't really fear that, it's just an excuse for their bigotry.

[Palemoon]

Your are correct, your first sentence is what the 9th Amendment of our Constitution says, which is part of our original "Bill of Rights". They simply used old english terms to say it, so alot of people cannot fully grasp what it means.

[peachesmahoney]

As a gay man in California, I am totally disappointed in my state. It is disheartening that hate groups who don't even live here can successfully poison the well and manipulate the minds of voters.

[wijg]

Hate groups dressed up as Christians.

[joeyp404]

Thanks goodness people can still cling to their homophobia in the winds of change.

[greeniefromOH]

Why do we always crave a scapegoat in our world? Everything is someone's fault, and right now in our history, we've decided to make an example of gays.

It will serve these states right to lose this upwardly mobile and competent segment of their population to more liberal states until they right this wrong. We need to protect them at the national level, however. This is just plain wrong.

[AynRand123]

Good point about scapegoats! Would that liberals thought about problems that way all the time.

[Changeizgood]

Start small... crawl before you walk...careful steps are sure steps...

Shhhhhhhhhhhh! listen to what I post....... it will work and the BS is over. Now if you are just as small minded over the actual word "marriage" as the Christian right wing nutz, I think you guys and gals need to check you meds.

Work it, you know how, legally.

Do a couple of movies where a mean spirited family member ran the gay person off, and when the gay person is dying, they are rich through their partnership and plot with the mean spirited, as a villain, trying to eliminate the partner of their family, to inherit, after treating this person like a cancer.

It's moving, can be used to connect emotionally and gets to the heart of the matter. Add some hospitals that don't allow visits and make it felt. You should be able to do that. People have to know that because your gay, doesn't mean you don't feel the hatred or prejudice.

Now which one of your is the millenial Spike Lee?

You can do it and in five years,. this may not be a problem anymore.

[itmaybetoolate]

Well, in the midst of one of the happiest days in American history, we see that prejudice is still alive and well in our country. But, I will not despair because ALL things are possible in this country!!!!!!

[Changeizgood]

Welcome to our world. AA.
Racism is alive and kickin.

but there is HOPE for a better day. Get to work in "Gollywood".