Gay Marriage Bans Succeeding

State amendments to ban gay marriage did well across the country with voters in Arizona and Florida approving proposals to outlaw same-sex marriage and Californians on the verge of passing such an amendment in their state.

The proposal in Arizona was a stripped-down version of an amendment that was narrowly voted down two years ago. In Florida, social conservatives spent millions to push their ballot drive:

Florida's gay marriage amendment drew the most attention, with dueling groups pumping more than $5 million into TV advertising and statewide campaigns. Same-sex marriage has been illegal in Florida since 1997, but supporters argued a constitutional shield was necessary to make sure judges would never overturn the law.

And the most closely-watched gay marriage ban, California's Proposition 8, had slightly more support, 52% to 47%, with almost 60% of precincts reporting.

According to the Los Angeles Times:

A measure to ban gay marriage in California led in early returns Tuesday although the final outcome remained in doubt, leaving advocates on both sides in suspense about the most divisive and emotionally fraught contest in the state this year.

Proposition 8 would amend the California Constitution to define marriage as being only between a man and a woman.

Comments

[DSphoto]

I think it's pretty important to separate "marriage" as a civil issue and the religious sacrament of marriage. My hetero marriage had no religious component. We married at the courthouse - our official marriage, the affirmation of our civil contract, and then six months later had a ceremony in Vegas attended be extended family and friends. Had we simply gone to the courthouse, had our marriage certificate affirmed by a judge, and left it at that, we'd still be no less married. Religious people have no monopoly on marriage, no matter what they believe. The idea that marriage is a religious issue is fundamentally incorrect. It is a LEGAL issue in the United States. The legal rights conferred by marriage are not granted by a church, a religious sect, or a religious official. Legal rights are conferred by the state, always have been, always will be.

[Researchguy66]

And, in the case of most states, those legal rights cannot be conferred to people who live outside a narrowly proscribed, religiously defined lifestyle.

[johnnylafontaine]

"The legal rights conferred by marriage are not granted by a church"
Except that the Mormon and Catholic churches raised ten of millions of dollars and organized en masse to write hate into our Constitution. Any political Californian knows that our own elected representatives aren't even allowed to pass a budget without a supermajority but the civil rights of so many can be abridged by a simple majority. Anyway as I told the biological half of my legally married mothers, this will be in the courts faster than the votes are counted because our state nondiscrimination act recognizes the rights of LGBT, so maybe it was good that the churches spent so much money on an issue that will inevitably win. Maybe they can raise the price of the temple garments or sell some more parish land. This will mobilize the LGBT community in ways that should make Salt Lake shake like a 8.0 tremblor

[Changeizgood]

That is not the point. They believe they do. That is the problem.

They believe it to the death, so, don't mess with their word for union. Create your own, since the bible doesn't give reference any union, accept Sodom and Gomorrah, I would tread very carefully and make the union "Legal"

[itmaybetoolate]

Separate but equal, right?

[AngryCitizen]

In the face of so much hope with the election of President Obama, I as a gay American must deal with the fact that so many would discriminate against me through Constitutions which were meant to give rights, not take them away or create a seperate and unequal class of citizenship. America still has growing up to do.

[CSP]

70% African Americans voted yes. Ironic.

[FlamingLibrul]

Unfortunately, African Americans overwhelmingly refuse to see equality for Gays and Lesbians as being a civil rights issue. From my experiences, African Americans are often offended with the comparisons made between Gays and civil rights struggles throughout history.

I find this more sad than ironic.

[MarkBoston]

I always find that to be shocking .. That blacks of ALL people so openly and joyfully express bigotry towards gays... as if " now that we're in" we get to beat down a group as well ... IT's SO AMERICAN .. SHAME on them !!! SHAME., 99% of this comes from their churches that foster hate from their crazy preachers

[Khill]

Not really, 90% of blacks are religious and hold fast to there beleifs so I'm not surprised and for the last time (which I know I will have to say again...... sigh) BLACKS DON'T SEE THE STRUGGLES OF AFRICAN AMERICANS IN THIS COUNTRY THE SAME AS GAYS it's just like the IRISH didn't see there struggles in this country the same as African-Americans and so on down the line and any black person on any given day is going to say this: "No one has to know you're sexuality unless you say it, I can't hide my skin color." and I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong I'm just saying how it is....

[walk0nwalls]

I am so disappointed.

[rafael44]

i am terribly dissapointed coming from people that once were discriminated against using the same bible that so much cherish.

[CSull2005]

The Mormons finances much of this (don't they support polygamy???) and the catholci group "The Knights of Columbus" - as well as the catholic church itself (among others). These are the groups that should be holding their head in shame over this vote. Truly a profound embarassment for the whole world to see. Ignorance and intolerance on such a grand scale.

However, the GLBT community is nothing if not resilient and the false sense in the belief that people will "do the right thing" will now be forever shaken. There will be a lot of anger too - and the Mormons will be in for a wake-up call their arrogance deserves.

[CSP]

Its open season on Mormons in Chi-town already...

[mrone2]

Putting access to equal rights for a minority to a "popular vote" seems more than a bit un-American. I'm sure that the South would have LOVED to have had the opportunity to vote on access to equal rights for Blacks in America.

[Researchguy66]

Ironically, it was African-Americans who supported both Proposition 8 and Amendment 2 most strongly.

Interestingly enough, in Florida at least, this amendment could strip a large number of heterosexual domestic partnerships of their legal and financial benefits.

[CSP]

Maybe we should take a page from their book and get violent, burn some stuff, and boycott...

[tomjones44]

the right supreme court judges will help

[MarkBoston]

in a way they did ... it was called the civil war.

[mrone2]

The end of the civil war did not grant equal rights to the black community, that did not come until much much later when the court struck down Jim Crow laws in 1965.

[OutsiderSA]

It amazes me that this can pass with so small a majority. Usually in most democracies, changes in legislation requires a two thirds majority.

Well you folks can always come to SA and get married as gay rights are well embedded here and no the sky did not fall.

Seems you folk have a way to go yet but the dismantling of the fringe stranglehold has begun. This will not be on BO's to do list so there will be much petitioning and litigation till you get a Roe vs. Wade scenario.

[Researchguy66]

The U.S. Constitution is very difficult to amend, but each state has its own requirements for its own constitutions. I personally think ballot proposals are pretty stupid. No one understands them and that's what we pay representatives for anyway. The religious right seems to like them though.

[clayfisher]

What is the legal redress for an amendment in a state constitution that violates the whole of the U.S. Constitution? Nope, this is not over and will not be over until there is unencumbered freedom for all.

[milo h minderbinder]

California has some wacked ways of doing things.

Seriously, a simple majority for a constitutional amendment is just flat out stupid.

[johnnylafontaine]

Yes, we do have whacked ways of doing things.
A simple majority of voters to change the constitution but a supermajority for our elected officials to pass an annual budget. We never said we were perfect just better than Alaska

[rafael44]

Should we expect anything better from the samer people that elected a third rate actor as their governor ?

[Richcelt]

Words (proper words) cannot express the bitter disappointment I feel in the people of California right now. I thought that we might be better than this. I thought we might be smarter than this.

As heartened as I am by Obama's victory, it's tempered with this disappointment. I am no better than my gay friends, and yet these people say that I have more right to my marriage than they do. I don't see it. I don't believe it.

For those who asked, yes this can be taken to the courts. It will have to be left to the United States Supreme Court to strike down all of these state bans. They still all violate the 14th Amendment (and possibly the 1st Amendment too).

This is one of the last civil rights movements, and it will be the longest, most bitterly fought ones in our history.

[hiprogloho]

(Cont.)

It is not hateful to prefer tradition over chaos or definition over redefintion. If the day comes when gays get over themselves and not make two wrongs a right via reverse discrimination that is the day that change may come for them as it did for Afro-American leadership. But to be labeled a hater simply because your meaning of a word is different than someone else's is the argument of a bully, a sadist or a masochist. When you get personal with insults, it lowers civil debate to the level of a verbal brawl.

My best best friend in high school was gay and later died of AIDS. Grew up in MA where the redefinition is all inclusive. But is it really so when gay causes are hip and straights are pushed to the side and taken for granted? Think about that. Squeeky wheel gets the oil while the rest flatten. As populations dwindle, just hope the bedrock of procreation that you accuse of hate doesn't die. Or else gays may have to develop anal birthing sex organs to save the human race from straight boogie man extinction.

[Pigliacci]

Whose tradition?

Tradition in Christendom forbids divorce.

Tradition in much of the Islamic world sanctions plural marriage.

Traditional Mormonism also sanctions polygamy.

Whose tradition shall we write into our Constitution?

[starboymikey]

Personally I'm with Groucho Marx: "Of course gays should get married. Why shouldn't they suffer like the rest of us?"

[OkieIntellectual]

Wow, what a rambling stream of conciousness. I see words there, but they don't make much sense. This isn't an issue of definitions, its an issue of human rights. So-called "traditional" marraige is a lie told by the Christian church. In all of pre-christian Europe, it was common for homosexual couples to be joined in spiritual and legal union with absolutely no distinction from heterosexual couples. The emphasis was on two people who wish to commit to each other, share property and joint responsibility. Those traditions run far deeper than anything the Christian faith can come up with.

[Researchguy66]

For what its worth, marriage until very recently had little if nothing to do with love. It was a simple contractual agreement that dealt mostly with a bundle of property rights.

[RandyN]

Please explain how allowing gays to marry will affect heterosexuals.

[milo h minderbinder]

Let me clear something up for you.

You're not a hater because you define a word differently.

You're a hater because you insist that everyone else must follow YOUR morality and because you insist on violating the civil rights of others.

[wembles]

we need to organize a "day without gays". one day in which everyone who is gay or supports gay rights takes a day off! send a message that we are strong. we will not accept legalized discrimination!

[RandyN]

I'm in!

[CSP]

I agree. And no matter how people feel about all this, they better expect me to react angrily. Very. I gotta live with their decision, then so do they. And its gonna to hurt, hiproglohole. (Sorry I and other gays did not kiss your *ss so you'd vote for fairness.)

[dmcd354]

Just goes to show you that scorched earth lies and fear campaigns can still win even in "liberal" California especially when those lies invovle children. They all seemed to be saying "Be very afraid of the gay people everyone, they're out to warp your children's minds!" What a load of bile! Hey, I've got an idea! Let's pass a consitutional amendment to kick churches off their cushy tax exempt status if they buy a political campaign will scare tactics and lies!

[MourningDood]

There is so much ignorance here about the funding poured into the Prop 8 initiative that this bears repeating.

MORE money was spent AGAINST prop 8 than FOR it.

MORE money came in from out of state AGAINST prop 8 than FOR it.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-moneymap,0,2198220.htmlstory

An inconvenient truth?

[HunkaPunka]

what's your point?

[Khill]

The point is funding is the name of the game

[CSP]

No, that makes me feel a little better--the fact that CA needed money to fight this kind of crap is the disgusting part, idget. So what the heck is your point about "inconvenient?"

[metatron1970]

I live in Mississippi but sent money to the No on Proposition 8 campaign. California is regarded as a haven for progressive thinking in America, and it is a shame Californians voted to legalize discrimination of this sort based on the bigotry and baseless fears of evangelicals and reactionaries. I am very disappointed this morning even while I am elated over Obama's victory. How likely is it this proposition can be struck down in a Supreme Court ruling on the matter?

[deeppeace]

Disgraceful. We need to make this our next domestic issue.

[all74]

Until the uus (un-united states) takes this final step into the light, fully bans discrimination, and ensures equality for all under its laws, the rest of the western world will look at it with suspicion. The uus is still on the brink of being a f a s c i s t state, Obama will or no. And realize that religious f a s c i s m is no different than any other form, including n a z i s m.

This whole thing saddens me deeply as a Christian. Jesus did not allow intolerance, but instead stood and spoke for the marginalized and oppressed. In our day, Jesus would be ministering to the gays and lesbians, not by trying to convert them but by actually caring for them and speaking out against the injustice and hatred spewed upon them. How any Christian could have voted for one of these propositions is beyond me. There is simply no excuse. They have become the Pharisees.

I am dual (Canadian and uus) and this is making me seriously consider renouncing my uus citizenship. Absolutely sickening.

[sangean]

As a Californian, I have been appalled at our ballot initiative system. We require a "super majority" in the legislature to pass a budget every year, yet we tolerate a process that allows our state constitution to be amended with a one vote majority. This is deeply flawed and has allowed our enlightened citizens to, for the first time, take away a right that has been granted. The pro-8 campaign was funded, largely, by the Mormon Church (no small irony there) and many out of state right wing religious groups like Dobson's. Hopefully, there will another initiative that negates 8 next year. This is an example of why we have judges to exercise oversight on popular decisions.