Holiday outlook turns grimmer after dismal October

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ANNE D'INNOCENZIO | November 6, 2008 05:21 PM EST | AP

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In this Oct. 2, 2008 file photo, Yvonne Rodriguez, left, Star Caasi, 3, and Sara Luna shop for movies at a Wal-Mart Supercenter in Rosemead, Calif. Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the world's largest retailer, said Thursday, Nov. 6, 2008, its low-price focus and sales of Halloween merchandise boosted October same-store sales by 2.4 percent, ahead of expectations. (AP Photo/Ric Francis, file)

NEW YORK — Retailers suffered through the weakest October in at least 39 years, despite frenzied price cutting as they desperately try to pull in consumers who are too worried about their finances to shop.

The sales tallies from major retailers on Thursday _ many showing declines of 10 percent or more _ suggests that shoppers will remain skittish through the holiday season, buying presents for children but not much else.

"There was every reason for consumers not to shop," said Walter Loeb, a New York-based retail consultant. "Layoffs are rising, the stock market is tumbling. Consumers are feeling poorer."

One of the few bright spots was Wal-Mart Stores Inc., whose results show how much frugal consumers are focusing on necessities. The world's largest retailer also said it will cut prices on items from toys to laptops over the next seven weeks. Department store J.C.Penney Co. is also offering extended hours and markdowns of up to 60 percent this weekend.

The stunning and rare drop in sales last month, following an already weak September, showed the toll the financial crisis is taking on all shoppers, from teens to the affluent, and analysts expect no recovery until at least the second half of 2009.

Not even receding gas prices _ their rise a cause of angst for shoppers just a few months ago _ are expected to provide much relief for the holidays as consumers fixate on shriveling retirement funds and job security amid widespread layoffs. The number of people continuing to receive jobless benefits reached its highest level in more than 25 years, according to government figures released Thursday.

All of that is fueling more concern about the retail industry, which is expected to report its sixth consecutive quarter of profit declines when it reports third-quarter results this month. A growing number of merchants are facing a do-or-die holiday season, having already seen competitors like Mervyns LLC and Linens 'N Things forced to liquidate.

Loeb now predicts that total retail sales for the November-December period could drop 1 percent, compared with his original growth estimate of 0.5 percent. That would be the worst performance he's seen since at least the 1970s.

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He says shoppers may focus on buying presents for children and skimp for most everyone else.

Michael P. Niemira, chief economist at the International Council of Shopping Centers, described October's performance as "awful."

"This reflects the severity of the current financial crisis," he said.

According to the ICSC-Goldman Sachs index, sales fell 0.9 percent, the weakest October performance since at least 1969 when the index began. That compares to a 1 percent gain in September and is well below the 1.8 percent average pace so far this fiscal year, which for retailers begins in February. Niemira said October's decline is the first non-Easter related drop since at least 1986.

Excluding Wal-Mart, the October sales number was down 4.6 percent. The index is based on same-store sales, or sales at stores opened at least a year, which are considered a key indicator of a retailer's health.

As a result, Niemira now expects same-store sales for the combined November and December period to rise 1 percent; his original forecast was for growth of 1 percent to 2 percent.

Wal-Mart posted a 2.4 percent gain in same-store sales, better than the 1.6 gain projected by analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters. Including fuel sales, they were up 2.5 percent. But Target Corp. _ which has lagged behind Wal-Mart because of its heavier emphasis on nonessentials _ posted a 4.8 percent drop, worse than the 2.8 percent decline expected.

"We expect the recent challenging sales environment to continue into the holiday season and beyond as a result of the economic factors currently affecting consumer spending," Target's President and Chief Executive Gregg Steinhafel said in a statement.

Even Costco Wholesale Corp, hurt by currency effects, reported a 1 percent decline in October, compared with the 3.6 percent gain Wall Street projected.

But most mall-based stores fared even worse, reporting double-digit percentage sales declines. Penney reported a 13 percent drop in same-store sales at its department store business and cut the top end of its profit outlook. Macy's Inc. posted a 6.3 percent drop.

Luxury stores were hit hard as affluent shoppers cut back on designer clothing amid rising layoffs on Wall Street and shrinking bonuses. Nordstrom posted a 15.7 percent drop in same-store sales, while Saks Inc., which operates Saks Fifth Avenue, recorded a 16.6 percent drop. Saks also said it expects a "significant" decrease in profit margins for the third and fourth quarters as it ramps up discounting.

Even teens stayed away from malls. American Eagle Outfitters Inc. announced a 12 percent drop in same-store sales, while Abercrombie & Fitch Co. suffered a 20 percent drop.

NEW YORK — Retailers suffered through the weakest October in at least 39 years, despite frenzied price cutting as they desperately try to pull in consumers who are too worried about their financ...
NEW YORK — Retailers suffered through the weakest October in at least 39 years, despite frenzied price cutting as they desperately try to pull in consumers who are too worried about their financ...
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What part of the business model of cutting wages, destroying unions and cutting health and retirement funds did the business community not get. Um... No money, no purchases.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:00 AM on 11/07/2008
- DuganS1 I'm a Fan of DuganS1 20 fans permalink

The business community in most sectors has been doing very well until just last month. And business will recover like it always does. Unions by the way was a major, possibly the major, reason that inflation was so high and the economy had largely stagnated from 1969 until 1983.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:05 AM on 11/07/2008
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What part of the business model of cutting wages, destroying unions and cutting health and retirement funds did the business community not get. Um..... No money, no purchases.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:33 AM on 11/07/2008
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Oh, I checked your profile.
Sorry I said anything at all. Just forget it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:23 PM on 11/06/2008

Good. Let's see Americans get back to saving some money. We have been living beyond our means for decades and it won't hurt if we cut back a little. Of course jobs are going to be lost. But that's an opportunity because we need to learn how to produce more instead of defining box stacker positions as the major job opportunity we have to offer our kids.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 AM on 11/06/2008

Exactly. Bush's sevice economy is an economy that subjects the majority of this nation to live in poverty with a few super wealthy people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 PM on 11/06/2008
- DuganS1 I'm a Fan of DuganS1 20 fans permalink

If being in poverty involves driving an SUV, living in a big house, watching a big screen TV with 100 channels, and stopping at Starbucks every morning for their grande vanilla latte. Then yes, we are all in poverty.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:41 PM on 11/06/2008
- iambusto I'm a Fan of iambusto 5 fans permalink

i am surprised to see this whole "we need to give some cash to consumers so they can spend" thing going on.

Its recession. its time to SAVE not spend and spend. a lot of our GDP growth in the past was unsustainable. people flipping cars every 4 years (whats the national average in trading new cars in)...and people are surprised that car sales are tanking. retail is tanking.

how about saying, customers are wisening up.

you DONT need new cars every 4 years.
you DONT need to pay $80+ for sneakers/jeans (maybe i am a 32 year old slob :) )
you DEFINITELY DONT need to go to mall every other weekend.
you DONT need to eat out more than 4 times a month.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 PM on 11/06/2008
- DuganS1 I'm a Fan of DuganS1 20 fans permalink

Around here, people mostly wear $200+ jeans and eat out virtually every day (at least I do). Spending is ok if you can afford it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:27 PM on 11/06/2008
- DuganS1 I'm a Fan of DuganS1 20 fans permalink

American's saving is not necessarily a good thing, because it means companies will become less profitable and cut more jobs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:39 PM on 11/06/2008
- iambusto I'm a Fan of iambusto 5 fans permalink

look at the saving rate in the country. thinking your house as your ONLY retirement kitty and not having savings and investments is not good.

the whole thinking of supporting the GDP by consumer spending is terrible. Look at savings rates in China, India. and dont be blaming it because of jobs going there. Savings rates have been terrible in this country for a while now.

people do not need to trade in cars every 4 years. this whole crash in auto sales is ridiculous. its been unsustainably high for a long time.

retail sales have been unsustainably high for a long time. why spend so much money in electronics/clothes when you can invest with that money and see it double/triple in a decade or more.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:16 PM on 11/06/2008
- Tom95134 I'm a Fan of Tom95134 55 fans permalink
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People! Stop buying at Wal-Mart/Sam's Club and sending your money off-shore! Wal-Mart gets most of its products from China and shopping there doesn't do anything towards helping America recover from the economic crisis.

Do your Christmas shopping at the smaller locally owned stores. Yes, the prices will be slightly higher but just let it be known that Christmas will see fewer presents under the tree this year.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:35 AM on 11/06/2008

My wife and I will be sharing a nice pot of Hot Chocolate for our Christmas gift this year. Much rather see the money go into savings.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:26 PM on 11/06/2008
- racom I'm a Fan of racom 3 fans permalink

So, so true. Support your local community, buy locally when you can. You'll probably still find china junk but at least you will know where to return it to.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:43 PM on 11/06/2008
- JoeBlough I'm a Fan of JoeBlough 60 fans permalink
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The local stores get their inventory from China, also. The US doesn't make anything anymore.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:43 PM on 11/06/2008
- DuganS1 I'm a Fan of DuganS1 20 fans permalink

Only a small percentage of what you pay for something at Walmart actually goes to the factory in China that produces the good. This is why we don't manufacture most this stuff anymore. It's not profitable, there's no margin, the stuff is so cheap to simply get from abroad. This fact does not hurt American's.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:43 PM on 11/06/2008
- isis I'm a Fan of isis 20 fans permalink
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I just don't need stuff right now. But Costco has really great food so I imagine they will be able to hold on. GAP really does need to cut inventory. I like them but they always have so much. Old Navy was selling summer items for a dollar last time I was there. (I hear that tattoo parlors are doing a big business in peace signs today.)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:22 AM on 11/06/2008
- racom I'm a Fan of racom 3 fans permalink

With an economy in the tank expected sales were going to be low. The US is loaded up with debt so no surprise here, the thing that really outs me off is how the bottom feeder, walmart, gets the advantage due to low priced, imported crap. Many could see this coming, economy in shambles, lost jobs or part time, low paying work, high energy costs, health care issues along with a plethora of other problems, thanks to the incompetent administration. Bailouts for the rich and misery for the others.
And the hated walmart grows, just kinda goes with all the rest of the worst 8 years I've ever seen.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 AM on 11/06/2008

If Costco were to lower its yearly membership fee from $50 to $25, and rely on email notifications rather than paper (junk mail) ads, they could see their sales increase by as much as 30%.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:39 AM on 11/06/2008
- racom I'm a Fan of racom 3 fans permalink

Check their corp profits, they are the most reasonable you'll find. The yearly fee goes to keep good employee benefits, contrary to walmart. I pay the fee gladly and get good service as a result. I don't see the fee as an issue. I also get email notices from costco on sale items.
Also I see that walmart is at the bottom of the ratings of electronic stores list in CR , Dec 08.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:38 PM on 11/06/2008
- DuganS1 I'm a Fan of DuganS1 20 fans permalink

The membership fee is where they make their margin. How do you figure that by reducing the membership fee they'll make more money? I think it would be just the opposite. Plus, Costco shoppers tend to be middle to upper income earners who aren't dissuaded by the $50 fee.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:05 PM on 11/06/2008

The pool of middle to upper income earners is starting to dry up...or haven't you been paying attention?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:18 PM on 11/06/2008
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Maybe rewarding companies for laying off employees wasn't such a great idea. We have to have jobs out here to buy your crap.

Maybe not paying a living wage, or upping our health insurance premiums for lower coverage was foolish.

It made me sick every time the stocks soared when a company announced massive layoffs. The belief that those employees would just be absorbed into other businesses seemed incredibly short-sighted. The government conveniently stopped counting people on the unemployment rolls once they had been there a certain length of time.

There had to be a tipping point.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:38 AM on 11/06/2008
- iambusto I'm a Fan of iambusto 5 fans permalink

During recession, thats what companies are supposed to do. cust fixed costs.

What part of that business do people not understand.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:33 PM on 11/06/2008
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Businesses have been laying people off for years before this recession. Each time they did, the stock would climb and people would be jubilant. My point is that sooner or later, there is a tipping point. The stockholders begin to see declines in some of their other stocks when they celebrate all the layoffs at another one of their businesses. Eventually there is nobody who can afford to buy anything.
That's what the article is about. Walmart begin sounding the warning a couple of months ago because they noticed that sales of baby formula and groceries were taking place around the end of the month. Now there is a full blown recession and even the large, discount places are having problems.

I wouldn't be so cavalier about lay-offs in this economy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:19 PM on 11/06/2008
- DuganS1 I'm a Fan of DuganS1 20 fans permalink

People are counted as unemployed as long as they continue to activity seek work. The unemployment rate is not relegated only to the people who collect unemployment. Companies have always layed people off when business has weakened. This happened 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40, 50, 80, 100, 120, etc years ago. This is not some kind of new phenomena.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 11/06/2008
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