Obama Plans Guantanamo Close, US Trials

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MATT APUZZO and LARA JAKES JORDAN | November 10, 2008 10:45 PM EST | AP

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In this June 6, 2008 file photo, reviewed by the U.S. Military, a guard stands at a gate at the Camp Delta detention compound, which has housed foreign prisoners since 2002, at Guantanamo Bay U.S. Naval Base in Cuba. (AP Photo/Brennan Linsley, File)

UPDATES: Barack Obama Big News Page

WASHINGTON — President-elect Obama's advisers are crafting plans to close the Guantanamo Bay prison and prosecute terrorism suspects in the U.S., a plan the Bush administration said Monday was easier said than done. Under the plan being crafted inside Obama's camp, some detainees would be released and others would be charged in U.S. courts, where they would receive constitutional rights and open trials.

But, underscoring the difficult decisions Obama must make to fulfill his pledge of shutting down Guantanamo, the plan could require the creation of a new legal system to handle the classified information inherent in some of the most sensitive cases.

Many of the about 250 Guantanamo detainees are cleared for release, but the Bush administration has not able been to find a country willing to take them.

Advisers participating directly in the planning spoke on condition of anonymity because the plans aren't final.

The plan being developed by Obama's team has been championed by legal scholars from both political parties. But as details surfaced Monday, it drew criticism from Democrats who oppose creating a new legal system and from Republicans who oppose bringing terrorism suspects to the U.S. mainland.

Obama foreign policy adviser Denis McDonough said the president-elect wants Guantanamo closed, but no decision has been made "about how and where to try the detainees, and there is no process in place to make that decision until his national security and legal teams are assembled."

Obama seeks a break from the Bush administration, which established military tribunals to prosecute detainees at the Navy base in Cuba and strongly opposes bringing prisoners to the United States. At the White House, spokeswoman Dana Perino said Monday that President Bush has faced many challenges in trying to close the prison.

"We've tried very hard to explain to people how complicated it is. When you pick up people off the battlefield that have a terrorist background, it's not just so easy to let them go," Perino said. "These issues are complicated, and we have put forward a process that we think would work in order to put them on trial through military tribunals."

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But Obama has been critical of that process and his legal advisers said finding an alternative will be a top priority. One of those advisers, Harvard law professor Laurence Tribe, acknowledges that bringing detainees to the U.S. would be controversial but said it could be accomplished.

"I think the answer is going to be, they can be as securely guarded on U.S. soil as anywhere else," Tribe said. "We can't put people in a dungeon forever without processing whether they deserve to be there."

The tougher challenge will be allaying fears by Democrats who believe the Bush administration's military commissions were a farce and dislike the idea of giving detainees anything less than the full constitutional rights normally enjoyed by everyone on U.S. soil.

"I think that creating a new alternative court system in response to the abject failure of Guantanamo would be a profound mistake," Jonathan Hafetz, an American Civil Liberties Union attorney who represents detainees, said Monday. "We do not need a new court system. The last eight years are a testament to the problems of trying to create new systems."

Senate Judiciary Committee member John Cornyn, R-Texas, said it would be a "colossal mistake to treat terrorism as a mere crime."

"It would be a stunning disappointment if the one of the new administration's first priorities is to give foreign terror suspects captured on the battlefield the same legal rights and protections as American citizens accused of crimes," Cornyn said Monday, noting that the Senate overwhelmingly passed a nonbinding Senate bill last year opposing bringing detainees to the U.S.

Obama did not vote on that measure. He has said the civilian and military court-martial systems provide "a framework for dealing with the terrorists," and Tribe said the administration would look to those venues before creating a new legal system. But discussions of what a new system would look like have already started.

An Obama administration will want to avoid the criticisms that have marked the Bush administration's military commissions. Human rights groups and defense attorneys have condemned the commissions for lax evidence rules and intense secrecy. Some military prosecutors have even quit in protest.

"It would have to be some sort of hybrid that involves military commissions that actually administer justice rather than just serve as kangaroo courts," Tribe said. "It will have to both be and appear to be fundamentally fair in light of the circumstances. I think people are going to give an Obama administration the benefit of the doubt in that regard."

Some weren't so sure.

"There would be concern about establishing a completely new system," said Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., a member of the House Judiciary Committee and former federal prosecutor who is aware of the discussions in the Obama camp. "And in the sense that establishing a regimen of detention that includes American citizens and foreign nationals that takes place on U.S. soil and departs from the criminal justice system _ trying to establish that would be very difficult."

Though a hybrid court may be unpopular, other advisers and Democrats involved in the Guantanamo Bay discussions say Obama has few options.

Prosecuting all detainees in federal courts raises many problems. Evidence gathered through military interrogation or from intelligence sources might be thrown out. Defendants would have the right to confront witnesses, meaning undercover CIA officers or terrorist turncoats might have to take the stand, jeopardizing their cover and revealing classified intelligence tactics.

That means something different would need to be done if detainees couldn't be released or prosecuted in traditional courts. Exactly what remains unclear.

"I don't think we need to completely reinvent the wheel, but we need a better tribunal process that is more transparent," Schiff said.

According to three advisers participating in the process, Obama is expected to propose a new court system and may appoint a committee to decide how such a court would operate. Some detainees likely would be returned to the countries where they were first captured for further detention or rehabilitation. The rest could probably be prosecuted in U.S. criminal courts, one adviser said. All spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the ongoing talks, which have been private.

One challenge will be figuring out what to do with the 90 or so Yemeni detainees _ the largest group in the prison. The Bush administration has sought to negotiate the release of some of those detainees as part of a rehabilitation plan with the Yemeni government. But talks have so far been fruitless.

Waleed Alshahari, who has been following Guantanamo issues for the Yemeni Embassy in Washington, said the plan being discussed by the Obama team was an improvement over the current system. But he said he expects most detainees to be released rather than stand trial.

"If the U.S. government has any evidence against them, they would try them and put them in jail," Alshahari said. "But it has been obvious they have nothing against them. That is why they have not faced trial."

Whatever Obama decides, he should move quickly, Tribe said.

"In reality and symbolically, the idea that we have people in legal black holes is an extremely serious black mark," Tribe said. "It has to be dealt with."

UPDATES: Barack Obama Big News Page WASHINGTON — President-elect Obama's advisers are crafting plans to close the Guantanamo Bay prison and prosecute terrorism suspects in the U.S., a plan the Bus...
UPDATES: Barack Obama Big News Page WASHINGTON — President-elect Obama's advisers are crafting plans to close the Guantanamo Bay prison and prosecute terrorism suspects in the U.S., a plan the Bus...
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I'm confused. Is Guantanamo (the land) owned by the US? Leased from Cuba? What happens to the base if the prison is closed?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:12 PM on 11/10/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 269 fans permalink
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It will be sacked and looted by Cubans looking for medical supplies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 PM on 11/10/2008

Only by the Miami Mafia members.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:17 PM on 11/10/2008

What a completely absurd statement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:35 PM on 11/10/2008
- ZHarris2 I'm a Fan of ZHarris2 9 fans permalink

occupied..­.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:16 PM on 11/10/2008
- MikeGuy I'm a Fan of MikeGuy 3 fans permalink

Leased from Cuba. That it is not truly "American soil" is the failed argument made by the Bush Administration to the Supreme Court that habeous corpus for detainees didn't apply.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:20 PM on 11/10/2008
- cardtosser I'm a Fan of cardtosser 6 fans permalink
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If the prisoners had been treated as others in either the civilian or military legal systems both in detention and in trials, it wouldn't matter if they were held at GITMO or not. But as you say, you can't improvise law by claiming that GITMO is neither under the jurisdiction of US courts or the legal system of Cuba. Nor can you claim that the detainees are neither crimnals nor POW.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:41 PM on 11/10/2008
- cardtosser I'm a Fan of cardtosser 6 fans permalink
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The base doesn't change at all. It simply losses its crazy prison.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 PM on 11/10/2008
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Closing the prison isn't the same as giving up the territory.

It's been a US naval base since 1898.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 PM on 11/10/2008

YES!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 PM on 11/10/2008

This is a very misleading headline.
It makes it sounds like we are going to give back the land to Cuba when obviously we aren't doing that

As far as POW's....I­t seems to me that Guantanamo was where the least of our torture went on. Let me know when Obama decides to close down the cia "black sites." Until then its all just for show

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:07 PM on 11/10/2008
- JonG345 I'm a Fan of JonG345 6 fans permalink
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Obama 2012

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:07 PM on 11/10/2008
- baghdadjoe I'm a Fan of baghdadjoe 37 fans permalink

When can we start donating for Obama 2012? My wallet is standing by..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 PM on 11/10/2008

peggyleg is on pages 2 and 3 leaving replies to 20-30 minute old comments.

She always does that.

*HIC*

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 11/10/2008

just another behind the times tr00l.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 PM on 11/10/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 244 fans permalink
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Who is peggyleg? Not Pegi.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 PM on 11/10/2008
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It's the only way it can win an argument..­..........

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:15 PM on 11/10/2008

And so the quiet administration begins. Here's a bit lifted from The Washington Times:

"Over the weekend President-elect Barack Obama scrubbed Change.gov, his transition Web site, deleting most of what had been a massive agenda copied directly from his campaign Web site.

:Gone are the promises on how an Obama administration would handle 25 different agenda items - everything from Iraq and immigration to taxes and urban policy - all items laid out on his campaign Web site, www.BarackObama.com.

"Instead, the official agenda on Change.gov has been boiled down to one vague paragraph proclaiming a plan “to revive the economy, to fix our health care, education, and social security systems, to define a clear path to energy independence, to end the war in Iraq responsibly and finish our mission in Afghanistan, and to work with our allies to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon, among many other domestic and foreign policy objectives­.â€

“We are currently retooling the Web site,†said Obama spokesman Nick Shapiro.

"The site went active on Wednesday and was available to the public Thursday. The agenda items, which were active for at least part of the weekend, appear to have been deleted by late Saturday."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 11/10/2008

Quoting the Moonie Times?

Bless your heart!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 PM on 11/10/2008
- Graywolf48 I'm a Fan of Graywolf48 78 fans permalink
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Guantanamo we know about. How about all the secret "rendition" centers we maintain in countries like Egypt that do our real dirty work for us? Or the prison ships we maintain in international waters? Will we outlaw torture and make that law enforceable? We need to return to setting a positive example for the world. We've had 8 years of "friendly" fascism here at home. Unfortunately, it hasn't been so friendly for many citizens of the world. Guantanamo's closing is just one small step. We should be spreading democracy and justice by example, not by the point of a bayonet.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 11/10/2008
- rubberneck I'm a Fan of rubberneck 3 fans permalink

Obama better be real careful here. I don't like Gitmo as a detention center as much as the next person, but these people should not be afforded the same rights of Americans. They are war criminals.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 PM on 11/10/2008
- ZHarris2 I'm a Fan of ZHarris2 9 fans permalink

IF they were POWs they would be covered under the Geneva Convention.

They are detainees in legal limbo...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 11/10/2008
- theMightyT I'm a Fan of theMightyT 172 fans permalink

especially those ones that are there because their neighbors sold them out to settle old scores, or somebody needed a quick buck, or somebody got some names wrong... gotta especially watch out for those ones!

No Geneva Convention or humane treatment for them!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:07 PM on 11/10/2008
- Graywolf48 I'm a Fan of Graywolf48 78 fans permalink
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I'm afraid the real "war criminals" are not in Guantanamo, but in the White House and the Blair House right in Washington, D.C. I'm also sure they will never be charged with their crimes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:10 PM on 11/10/2008
- Collielady I'm a Fan of Collielady 84 fans permalink
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Wait a minute. They've been denied due process, so how can you state that they're war criminals?

And, if you want to deny them due process, because your mind is made up and facts just confuse you, then you'd better accept the same treatment for Americans abroad.

Do you even understand the laws, and why we have them?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:17 PM on 11/10/2008

As far as I can tell, *some* are war criminals, but many others, perhaps a majority of the prisoners, are either Taliban soldiers (i.e. normal POWs), or random people swept up by bounty hunters, and now too embarrassing to release.

The way to resolve these questions of fact are, indeed, through trials, as the justice system has done since the age of the Magna Carta.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 11/10/2008
- theMightyT I'm a Fan of theMightyT 172 fans permalink

I'll say this for peggyleg..­. she's entertaining as h.ell...

seriously peggy, if you ever get tired of your day job, take your routine out on the road... hit some comedy clubs for amateur hour.

I'm positive you'll bring down the house!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 PM on 11/10/2008

Especially after her second box of wine.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:07 PM on 11/10/2008
- ZHarris2 I'm a Fan of ZHarris2 9 fans permalink

She drinking on the job now? ;)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:10 PM on 11/10/2008
- myangeldog1 I'm a Fan of myangeldog1 102 fans permalink
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She should really consider at least eating breakfast before hand.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:14 PM on 11/10/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 269 fans permalink
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This thread is now about peggy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:15 PM on 11/10/2008
- ZHarris2 I'm a Fan of ZHarris2 9 fans permalink

The messenger as well as the message is topical.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:19 PM on 11/10/2008
- boophus I'm a Fan of boophus 10 fans permalink

Maybe Peggy should be sent to Guantanamo. She sure terrifies me LMAO

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:41 PM on 11/10/2008
- Norge I'm a Fan of Norge 22 fans permalink

That will be an excellent start and also http://www.soaw.org closer would be an end to death squade training and would begin the peace process with America's South American neighbors.

http://amnesty.org I can think would be very pleased with such a positive first start.

Have a nice day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 PM on 11/10/2008
- mirage2008 I'm a Fan of mirage2008 5 fans permalink

Shut it down Obama!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 PM on 11/10/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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Close Gauntanamo?

What is wrong with you people?

If we close Gauntanamo, where will we store Bush, Cheney, Rove, Wolfie, Rummy etc?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:58 PM on 11/10/2008
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Cheney's man-sized safe

----------­----------­----------­----------­----
http://www.reverbnation.com/ere
----------­----------­----------­----------­----

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 PM on 11/10/2008
- ZHarris2 I'm a Fan of ZHarris2 9 fans permalink

Nah, we should give them a trial, too ;)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 PM on 11/10/2008
- williamg I'm a Fan of williamg 251 fans permalink
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Ok. But only after a few weeks of extraordinary rendition.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 PM on 11/10/2008
- Nagarjuna I'm a Fan of Nagarjuna 43 fans permalink
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They will be hiding out in Paraguay:

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=5324

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 PM on 11/10/2008
- Durango I'm a Fan of Durango 144 fans permalink

Colorado has plenty of maximum security cells available.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 PM on 11/10/2008
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The Hague

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 11/10/2008

peggyleg's is a perfect representation of the conpervative mind.

Intelligence and critical thinking skills are disdained.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 PM on 11/10/2008
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But they are clearly very amusing. Nothing smells sweeter than a troII meltdown on a Monday afternoon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 PM on 11/10/2008

This is the most important signal to the American people that the Constitution is in the process of being restored - and to the world that the USA has chosen the course of decency. It's unsettling how many people have ended up in Guantanamo simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or - horror of horrors - having political views critical of America. Those guilty of terrorism should be tried and convicted. Those who have been victimized and railroaded should be given apologies and paid damages. Gitmo - along with the Patriot Act (and the associated, arbitrary, abuse of international passengers at US airports) - have been key blights on the international image of the USA. May it all end soon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:55 PM on 11/10/2008
- rubberneck I'm a Fan of rubberneck 3 fans permalink

Wear pink much?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:04 PM on 11/10/2008
- ZHarris2 I'm a Fan of ZHarris2 9 fans permalink

Dare think much?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 PM on 11/10/2008
- karinova I'm a Fan of karinova 27 fans permalink
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While I agree that Gitmo should be burned to the effin ground, stat, I don't think that's THE most important signal of a restoration to the Constitution.

Two words: habeas corpus.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:17 PM on 11/10/2008
- Rebecca I'm a Fan of Rebecca 37 fans permalink
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This was necessary. Glad to see it coming sooner rather than later in his administration.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:52 PM on 11/10/2008
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