Obama Plans Guantanamo Close, US Trials

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MATT APUZZO and LARA JAKES JORDAN | November 10, 2008 10:45 PM EST | AP

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In this June 6, 2008 file photo, reviewed by the U.S. Military, a guard stands at a gate at the Camp Delta detention compound, which has housed foreign prisoners since 2002, at Guantanamo Bay U.S. Naval Base in Cuba. (AP Photo/Brennan Linsley, File)

UPDATES: Barack Obama Big News Page

WASHINGTON — President-elect Obama's advisers are crafting plans to close the Guantanamo Bay prison and prosecute terrorism suspects in the U.S., a plan the Bush administration said Monday was easier said than done. Under the plan being crafted inside Obama's camp, some detainees would be released and others would be charged in U.S. courts, where they would receive constitutional rights and open trials.

But, underscoring the difficult decisions Obama must make to fulfill his pledge of shutting down Guantanamo, the plan could require the creation of a new legal system to handle the classified information inherent in some of the most sensitive cases.

Many of the about 250 Guantanamo detainees are cleared for release, but the Bush administration has not able been to find a country willing to take them.

Advisers participating directly in the planning spoke on condition of anonymity because the plans aren't final.

The plan being developed by Obama's team has been championed by legal scholars from both political parties. But as details surfaced Monday, it drew criticism from Democrats who oppose creating a new legal system and from Republicans who oppose bringing terrorism suspects to the U.S. mainland.

Obama foreign policy adviser Denis McDonough said the president-elect wants Guantanamo closed, but no decision has been made "about how and where to try the detainees, and there is no process in place to make that decision until his national security and legal teams are assembled."

Obama seeks a break from the Bush administration, which established military tribunals to prosecute detainees at the Navy base in Cuba and strongly opposes bringing prisoners to the United States. At the White House, spokeswoman Dana Perino said Monday that President Bush has faced many challenges in trying to close the prison.

"We've tried very hard to explain to people how complicated it is. When you pick up people off the battlefield that have a terrorist background, it's not just so easy to let them go," Perino said. "These issues are complicated, and we have put forward a process that we think would work in order to put them on trial through military tribunals."

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But Obama has been critical of that process and his legal advisers said finding an alternative will be a top priority. One of those advisers, Harvard law professor Laurence Tribe, acknowledges that bringing detainees to the U.S. would be controversial but said it could be accomplished.

"I think the answer is going to be, they can be as securely guarded on U.S. soil as anywhere else," Tribe said. "We can't put people in a dungeon forever without processing whether they deserve to be there."

The tougher challenge will be allaying fears by Democrats who believe the Bush administration's military commissions were a farce and dislike the idea of giving detainees anything less than the full constitutional rights normally enjoyed by everyone on U.S. soil.

"I think that creating a new alternative court system in response to the abject failure of Guantanamo would be a profound mistake," Jonathan Hafetz, an American Civil Liberties Union attorney who represents detainees, said Monday. "We do not need a new court system. The last eight years are a testament to the problems of trying to create new systems."

Senate Judiciary Committee member John Cornyn, R-Texas, said it would be a "colossal mistake to treat terrorism as a mere crime."

"It would be a stunning disappointment if the one of the new administration's first priorities is to give foreign terror suspects captured on the battlefield the same legal rights and protections as American citizens accused of crimes," Cornyn said Monday, noting that the Senate overwhelmingly passed a nonbinding Senate bill last year opposing bringing detainees to the U.S.

Obama did not vote on that measure. He has said the civilian and military court-martial systems provide "a framework for dealing with the terrorists," and Tribe said the administration would look to those venues before creating a new legal system. But discussions of what a new system would look like have already started.

An Obama administration will want to avoid the criticisms that have marked the Bush administration's military commissions. Human rights groups and defense attorneys have condemned the commissions for lax evidence rules and intense secrecy. Some military prosecutors have even quit in protest.

"It would have to be some sort of hybrid that involves military commissions that actually administer justice rather than just serve as kangaroo courts," Tribe said. "It will have to both be and appear to be fundamentally fair in light of the circumstances. I think people are going to give an Obama administration the benefit of the doubt in that regard."

Some weren't so sure.

"There would be concern about establishing a completely new system," said Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., a member of the House Judiciary Committee and former federal prosecutor who is aware of the discussions in the Obama camp. "And in the sense that establishing a regimen of detention that includes American citizens and foreign nationals that takes place on U.S. soil and departs from the criminal justice system _ trying to establish that would be very difficult."

Though a hybrid court may be unpopular, other advisers and Democrats involved in the Guantanamo Bay discussions say Obama has few options.

Prosecuting all detainees in federal courts raises many problems. Evidence gathered through military interrogation or from intelligence sources might be thrown out. Defendants would have the right to confront witnesses, meaning undercover CIA officers or terrorist turncoats might have to take the stand, jeopardizing their cover and revealing classified intelligence tactics.

That means something different would need to be done if detainees couldn't be released or prosecuted in traditional courts. Exactly what remains unclear.

"I don't think we need to completely reinvent the wheel, but we need a better tribunal process that is more transparent," Schiff said.

According to three advisers participating in the process, Obama is expected to propose a new court system and may appoint a committee to decide how such a court would operate. Some detainees likely would be returned to the countries where they were first captured for further detention or rehabilitation. The rest could probably be prosecuted in U.S. criminal courts, one adviser said. All spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the ongoing talks, which have been private.

One challenge will be figuring out what to do with the 90 or so Yemeni detainees _ the largest group in the prison. The Bush administration has sought to negotiate the release of some of those detainees as part of a rehabilitation plan with the Yemeni government. But talks have so far been fruitless.

Waleed Alshahari, who has been following Guantanamo issues for the Yemeni Embassy in Washington, said the plan being discussed by the Obama team was an improvement over the current system. But he said he expects most detainees to be released rather than stand trial.

"If the U.S. government has any evidence against them, they would try them and put them in jail," Alshahari said. "But it has been obvious they have nothing against them. That is why they have not faced trial."

Whatever Obama decides, he should move quickly, Tribe said.

"In reality and symbolically, the idea that we have people in legal black holes is an extremely serious black mark," Tribe said. "It has to be dealt with."

UPDATES: Barack Obama Big News Page WASHINGTON — President-elect Obama's advisers are crafting plans to close the Guantanamo Bay prison and prosecute terrorism suspects in the U.S., a plan the Bus...
UPDATES: Barack Obama Big News Page WASHINGTON — President-elect Obama's advisers are crafting plans to close the Guantanamo Bay prison and prosecute terrorism suspects in the U.S., a plan the Bus...
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- RadGash I'm a Fan of RadGash 8 fans permalink

We must stop this insanity now. Close Gitmo, and get our troops OUT of Iraq and Afghanistan NOW!
Bush was SUCKERED into the trap set by OBL. OBL knew that downing a couple of sky scrapers wuold never harm our nation, unless our nation took the bate and did exactly what it did... OBL, like anyone readying this, easily predicted the reaction of such a trigger-happy Barney-esque leader. Bush's amateur reaction to 9-11 has done FAR FAR FAR more harm than the tragic loss on 9-11 ever did.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 PM on 11/10/2008
- JulieDole I'm a Fan of JulieDole 30 fans permalink
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Iraq has already ruled that troops will be gone from that country by 2011.

Now it's just a matter of what happens between now & then...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 PM on 11/10/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 244 fans permalink
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I hope they don't get rerouted to Afghanistan. Gordon Brown abd David Miliband made it infinitely clear this week that they don't plan to be doing much in Afghansitan, troop-wise. They were referring, they said, to the surge Obama wants to do there. They basically told the Americans to look elsewhere, get other countries to do their part. The problem is that these other countries don't want to and never did, they are content to let America et al fight for them. Nothing new there.

Anyway, it might be a problem, Obama said he did not want as many troops in Afghanistan as are in Iraq, about 150,00 is it? but he also said there'd have to be a lot more than, say, 38,000. This in his interview with Maddow.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 PM on 11/10/2008
- Evisionary I'm a Fan of Evisionary 2 fans permalink
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i'm thrilled that Guantanamo bay is closing. It was truely a black hole in our history. Detaining prisoners, who NEVER had a court date. How in America was this ever allowed to happen? I can't wait for Obama to restore all our civil rights!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 PM on 11/10/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 270 fans permalink
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The detainees at Gitmo are not US citizens.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:05 PM on 11/10/2008
- MIMom I'm a Fan of MIMom 109 fans permalink
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No, but they are HUMAN BEINGS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 11/10/2008
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So?

They're human beings with human rights.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 11/10/2008

Which makes their imprisonment there legal ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 PM on 11/10/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 332 fans permalink
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Irrelevant.
When the basic tenets of our government are ignored for some, we ALL suffer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 PM on 11/10/2008
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Sorry, we don't know that for sure.

We really don't.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 PM on 11/10/2008
- ccmd I'm a Fan of ccmd 18 fans permalink

Ita ly Speaks out aga inst PM: He Does Not Spe ak for Me
http://www.notspeakinginmyname.com/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 11/10/2008
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**********­***OFF-TOP­IC********­*******

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 PM on 11/10/2008
- Indyfromny I'm a Fan of Indyfromny 17 fans permalink
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Cool, the peoples voice is louder than that nimrod.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:12 PM on 11/10/2008
- myangeldog1 I'm a Fan of myangeldog1 102 fans permalink
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Ti amo Italia!!! Grazi! : )

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 11/10/2008
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Ah, THANK GOD! This is the one thing I've been praying for more than any other in this horrible Bush nightmare--just letting the people at Gitmo be treated with at least the minimum of justice and human decency.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 11/10/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 270 fans permalink
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The detainees at Gitmo are the best treated Moslim prisoners in the world. It is a finer and more humane prison than one will find anywhere in the middle east. For a captured terrist it is the promised land. Good food, a tropical climate, plenty of rest, and religious materials provided at no charge.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 11/10/2008
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What a remarkably unintelligent thing to say.

And factually untrue into the bargain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:10 PM on 11/10/2008

And the waterboarding cleans the sinus's out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 PM on 11/10/2008
- MikeGuy I'm a Fan of MikeGuy 3 fans permalink

And the rest of the entire world believes the US still engages in torture and false imprisonment. Coincidence?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:18 PM on 11/10/2008
- mrsmdressup I'm a Fan of mrsmdressup 372 fans permalink
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A Canadian citizen has been detained there since he was 15. Ask his family or the Canadian government if they think he has it good.

Yours has to be the stoopidest post of the day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:19 PM on 11/10/2008

And the constant playing of ear-splitting music is a headbanger's dream ..........­.......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:19 PM on 11/10/2008
- Snow97 I'm a Fan of Snow97 32 fans permalink
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"In reality and symbolically, the idea that we have people in legal black holes is an extremely serious black mark," Tribe said. "It has to be dealt with."

Like a child acting willfully and without thought to the consequences, George W. Bush leaves behind mind-boggling messes.

No solution to Guantanamo will be perfect -- especially as Bush's Administration has confirmed that Guantanamo houses innocent men who have been locked up for years because no one now knows what to do with them -- but any conscientious start is better than the status quo.

Thank goodness we finally have an adult behind the wheel.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 11/10/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 332 fans permalink
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When it happens, it will be one down and how many to go?
How does someone even tally the number of ways that Bush has brought shame upon our country?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 PM on 11/10/2008
- dentuso I'm a Fan of dentuso 429 fans permalink
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Count the number of years in office, then muliply by 365. Multiply that by the number of times Chen ey has been in his office, multiplied by the number of hours that Bush was awake, or had his lips moving.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 PM on 11/10/2008

For the self described "Christian Conservatives":

Wrongful conviction is denounced in the Bible:

Exodus 23:7 "Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked."

There must be at least two EYEWITNESSES to the alleged crime"

Numbers 35:30 "If anyone ki.lls a person, the mur.derer shall be put to de.ath at the evidence of witnesses, but no person shall be put to de.ath on the testimony of one witness."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 PM on 11/10/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 270 fans permalink
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No detainees at Gitmo have been executed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 PM on 11/10/2008
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Again, we don't know that do we?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:12 PM on 11/10/2008
- MIMom I'm a Fan of MIMom 109 fans permalink
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As usual, you choose to miss the point.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 PM on 11/10/2008

They are facing a possible de.ath sentence, you idjut.

Reading comprehension and logical thinking are yet two more entries on the long list of your inadequacies in life.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:14 PM on 11/10/2008
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you, dude, are straining out a gnat while swallowing a camel.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 11/10/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 244 fans permalink
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Jetta:

Re: your post on the Bla.ckston­e Ratio

Woulod you say that it would better for ten terr*rists to escape no matter what the consequences of that are, than for one innocent person to suf.fer? Or are you saying that it would be better for ten terr*rists to escape than for one innocent person to suffer. Here I set aside Bla.ckston­e and his ratio and just ask you your opinion, i.e. I am not asking for an interpretation, strict or otherwise, of the Bla.ckston­e thing itself.

The real trouble with things like this is that you get into numbers, then you get into the principle of the greatest good for the greatest number. Is it better for 100 innocent people to d.ie than for one innocent person to suff.er, supposing the ten gu.ilty ones who escape manage to get these 100 innocent persons kil.led? On the surface, I think most would say that it would be better for one innocent person to suf.fer than for100 innocent ones to d.ie...or not d.ie but just suf.fer. I.e. one person suffering is better than 100 suf.fering­.

I just ask. I did a paper on this for an ethics class and nearly went ma.d because the arguments, for and against, never sit still, if you know what I mean and you will.

abby

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 AM on 11/10/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 244 fans permalink
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Typing and spelling error, first sentence, it should read 'Would you say that it would be better...' etc.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 11/10/2008
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You've got some false equivalence gong on there.

Blackstone was speaking somewhat metaphorically about the need for scrupulous honesty in courts, and giving the accused the benefit of doubt---which is wat our legal system is based on, in part.

You can't compare d.e.a.t.h with freedom for the guilty---that's the false equivalence.

And logic, as a philosophical construct, often doesn't take into account the realities of human behavior.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 PM on 11/10/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 244 fans permalink
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I was not aiming at equivalence. I was applying a principle to a possible situation. If he doesn't want to answer it he doesn't have to. I could have asked it aside and apart from Blackstone's Ratio; it can be asked, and answered, in isolation. But I bet if I had, Blackstone would have been brought up.

It doesn't matter, on to other things...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 PM on 11/10/2008

The principle was contained in his Commentaries on the Laws of England.

He was writing about the rules of due process.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 PM on 11/10/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 244 fans permalink
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Yes. I just wanted to know what you thought of an application of it ike I put forward above. It is IS a principle, as you say. But perhaps this isn't the best place for it! I was just curious.

:]

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 PM on 11/10/2008
- T Pol I'm a Fan of T Pol 13 fans permalink

Somewhere in the Old Testament it says that it is better to let 10 guilty men go free than to punish one innocent man.

If you think about the simplicity of that in light of your "better one innocent person suffer than 100 innocent to suffer," how does someone other than the one innocent person decide that he/she will be the ONE to suffer? The complexity here is that the intrisic value of a human beings value cannot be quantified by numbers

Much as we recognize the potential damage that can be caused by one guilty person set free, it is still, at that point, POTENTIAL damage. Whereas to make an innocent person suffer is an actual act.

Whatever the outcome, I applaud the "thinking outside the box" of how to balance traditional due process with the sensitivies of national security.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:30 PM on 11/10/2008
- Lion24 I'm a Fan of Lion24 125 fans permalink
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What's with the American Airlines plane to DC?

Why isn't he flying in one of OUR planes (the US government)???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 AM on 11/10/2008
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What difference does it make?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 AM on 11/10/2008
- Lion24 I'm a Fan of Lion24 125 fans permalink
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He's the President-Elect. He shouldn't be flying "commercial" any more. No way. No how.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 11/10/2008
- iChoose I'm a Fan of iChoose 2 fans permalink

Are you crazy? You want the President to fly on commercial airlines?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 PM on 11/10/2008
- DFL I'm a Fan of DFL 37 fans permalink
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I FULLY SUPPORT MY NEW PRESIDENT! THE ADULTS WILL BE IN CHARGE AGAIN.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 AM on 11/10/2008

Rush is saying the Obama recession is in full swing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 AM on 11/10/2008
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I'm surprised it took him this long to blame Obama for Bush's economic failures.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 AM on 11/10/2008
- Sparky123 I'm a Fan of Sparky123 6 fans permalink

Just the beginning. Rush will continue to bad mouth Obama for the next 4 years. Be prepared for a very nasty run.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:05 PM on 11/10/2008
- theMightyT I'm a Fan of theMightyT 173 fans permalink

it's not Rush's fault... it's the O.xyCo.nti­n talking... just another dru.g-ad.d­led right wing hyp.ocrite­...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 PM on 11/10/2008
- Lion24 I'm a Fan of Lion24 125 fans permalink
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Rush is on the 'contin again. Have you heard his voice and demeanor?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 PM on 11/10/2008

I dont listen to him. I heard it on the Stefanie Miller show.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 PM on 11/10/2008
- dentuso I'm a Fan of dentuso 429 fans permalink
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Ah... the return of oxymoron.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:18 PM on 11/10/2008
- iChoose I'm a Fan of iChoose 2 fans permalink

Rush is a loser. All his barking fell on deaf ears. He is useless.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 PM on 11/10/2008

btw, for those posting about Obama and the bailout, I really believe deep down in his heart, he does not support the bailout. He still has to be extremely careful of the old white men still trying to control from behind the scene.(in fact they are desperately trying to hang on to their power).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:54 AM on 11/10/2008
- myangeldog1 I'm a Fan of myangeldog1 102 fans permalink
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There is so much more to this than we will ever know. O did what he had to do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 PM on 11/10/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 270 fans permalink
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So Obama is weak? Is that what you are trying to say?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:12 PM on 11/10/2008
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Before we shut the joint down; how about we lock up Hannity and Limbaugh in there? Since they feel the prison treated the prisoners more humanely than life in their homelands.

Might do Rush some good to loose a couple hundred lbs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:53 AM on 11/10/2008

That would get him down to a svelte 3,000 pounds ..........­.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 PM on 11/10/2008
- vippy I'm a Fan of vippy 70 fans permalink

Only makes sense to close it since most of them were not guilty anyway but caught up in the mess
and they were at the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:53 AM on 11/10/2008

That Obama dude is really weird. He called Nancy Raygun and apologized for a bad comment he made regarding her seances.
How can we have a President who admits when he has made a mistake. After the last 8 years it almost seems un-American.

BTW I am going to pray for a Palin / Jindal ticket in 2012.
Their slogan can be: Wit ch doctors and exor cisms for what ails America.

heh

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 AM on 11/10/2008
- Fightnmad I'm a Fan of Fightnmad 43 fans permalink
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Here's what's really going on:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/nigeria/3407882/Child-witches-of-Nigeria-seek-refuge.html

Disgusting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 PM on 11/10/2008
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