Bayh's Defense Of Lieberman Wrong, Senate Expert Says

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First Posted: 11-14-08 11:54 AM   |   Updated: 12-15-08 05:12 AM

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Appearing on "The Rachel Maddow Show" earlier this week, Indiana Sen. Evan Bayh argued that Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman should keep his committee chairmanships, suggesting that the posts could be taken away at a later date if he misbehaves. But a Senate rules expert who spoke to the Huffington Post said this could prove more difficult than is presently assumed.

Attempting to put Democrats' fears to rest, Bayh told Maddow:

And the final thing I'd say is, if he does retain his chairmanship, we still exert oversight over him and control over him. He doesn't have the ability to just do whatever he wants. The caucus still has the right to remove him from that position at any time if he starts going off on some kind of tangent.

Bayh's rationale appeared persuasive to some Democrats, including former Clinton campaign operative Phil Singer, who wrote on his blog that the Indiana Senator's take was "not unreasonable."

But former Democratic Senate staffer Martin Paone suggested Bayh is under-educated on this matter. Paone, who became as the "secretary to the majority" in the Senate starting in 2001, notes that Republicans harbored similar desires in the past, but never executed them due to the threat of a filibuster.

"It takes a Senate resolution to change a chairmanship, and that resolution could be subject to a filibuster," Paone told the Huffington Post. Put simply, under Bayh's proposed scenario, Republicans would have every reason to filibuster a new Senate resolution taking Lieberman's chairmanship away if he was proving an effective antagonist of President Obama.

Paone noted that a similar game of political chess played out in the Senate's recent history. "We had a similar situation in the past with a Republican moderate senator, Mark Hatfield from Oregon, who voted the wrong way in the eyes of [former Sen. Rick] Santorum and others on the constitutional amendment on a balanced budget," Paone said. "There were rumblings they wanted to take his chairmanship away. But the ranking member on the committee was [Democratic] Sen. Robert Byrd, who wrote Hatfield a nice note saying, 'if they ever try to take your chairmanship away, I'll make sure we [Democrats] will filibuster such a resolution."

According to Paone, "the time to take a chairmanship away is when everybody is being appointed [at the beginning of the new Congress]. Everybody has an investment in that resolution. In order for everybody to benefit, that resolution has to pass. It's much more difficult to cherry pick in this fashion, to take one Senator's chairmanship, at a later date."

Asked if Bayh understands this complexity, Paone said "I'm sure he probably doesn't. There aren't that many people up there who do. It's not every day you want to change a chairmanship. And since the Hatfield matter never materialized, I think that shows why it's not as easy as some might think."

Appearing on "The Rachel Maddow Show" earlier this week, Indiana Sen. Evan Bayh argued that Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman should keep his committee chairmanships, suggesting that the posts could be t...
Appearing on "The Rachel Maddow Show" earlier this week, Indiana Sen. Evan Bayh argued that Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman should keep his committee chairmanships, suggesting that the posts could be t...
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Just get rid of him, period....It's bad enough that the proponent of change,Mr. Obama, is already surrounding himself with many of the same old people that have been around since Clinton. If that's what we wanted, then Sen. Clinton would now be the president elect. You can't tell me that there are no other qualified persons to fill all the vacancies coming up other than all the former Clinton surrogates. Please don't start this administration with this lie.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:22 PM on 11/14/2008
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Excellent point, but Hillary in mind has no integrity. It is true that she would command respect around the world, but the only way that I am okay with Hillary as Sec. of state is if her agenda is women's rights around the world. This would underminealqeada and thetalibanand bring much of the world out of impoverished conditions. For the environment poverty is not necessarily bad as long as people have humane conditions, rights, and the essentials.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:48 PM on 11/14/2008
- JolieN I'm a Fan of JolieN 5 fans permalink

Kick him out! He's a two head snake.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:17 PM on 11/14/2008
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What benefit come from allowing Lieberman to remain?
What harm may come from allowing Lieberman to remain?

That is the best way to look at it.

As I see it, more harm than good would come from taking it away. Even though he was/is a ratmustard

The voters will decide in a couple of years based on what they see during the next two years.

He is on probation either way.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:17 PM on 11/14/2008
- shadow322 I'm a Fan of shadow322 9 fans permalink
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To keep Lieberman in a position of honor, trust and authority is a slap in the face of so many who worked so hard to provide the Democrats with a chance to turn this government around. It is time to take a stance on integrity and show the country that our motto of "CHANGE" really means somerthing. LIEBERMAN MUST GO!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:05 PM on 11/14/2008
- markkraft I'm a Fan of markkraft 15 fans permalink

Silly and essentially moot argument, as Lieberman will lose reelection in 2010 to a real Democrat.

He doesn't want to ruin what's left of his legacy and is trying to play nice now... and I hear he might not even run in 2010, because he doesn't want to hurt his worth by losing badly.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:50 PM on 11/14/2008

I don't believe he's up for re-election until 2012.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:57 PM on 11/14/2008
- Tenderfoot I'm a Fan of Tenderfoot 2 fans permalink

It doesn't matter sack him,a rat will never change,I shouldn't talk like that about rats.They've never done anything to me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:29 PM on 11/14/2008
- sadler05 I'm a Fan of sadler05 2 fans permalink
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Hate to say it but Lieberman is not up for re-election until 2012 - we have a long time to put up with him. I for one want him to be out of elected office as much as I want Bush out of elected office.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:57 PM on 11/14/2008
- Pupster I'm a Fan of Pupster 14 fans permalink

His election isn't until 2012.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:00 PM on 11/14/2008
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 236 fans permalink

2012, and even if it were 2010, that would be two crucial years lost.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:02 PM on 11/14/2008
- roshni I'm a Fan of roshni 183 fans permalink

2012 is too long to wait.
Kick him out now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:18 PM on 11/14/2008
- spinns17 I'm a Fan of spinns17 53 fans permalink

i say burn him

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:49 PM on 11/14/2008
- Plowboy I'm a Fan of Plowboy 25 fans permalink

Now how can anyone say that it doesn't make sense? Consider that these same "Democrats" now working so energetically on behalf of the ultraNeocon Joe Lieberman couldn't become at all enthused in working against Bush's Neocon outrages. Consistency is there for all to see. One just has to look at it intelligently.
Calling a thing a gem doesn't make it one.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:41 PM on 11/14/2008
- anachoret I'm a Fan of anachoret 34 fans permalink

If Lieberman stayed, could he bog down or delay any investigations through the committee?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:35 PM on 11/14/2008
- roshni I'm a Fan of roshni 183 fans permalink

yes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:18 PM on 11/14/2008

Maybe lieberman has some dirt on all of them and they're afraid that he would leak it. Either that, or the Dems are the weak sisters we've been thinking they are.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:32 PM on 11/14/2008
- Totto I'm a Fan of Totto 44 fans permalink

Let Lieberman caucus with the Republicans whom he supports. He will lose his next election.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:12 PM on 11/14/2008
- theone718 I'm a Fan of theone718 23 fans permalink
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Bayh was pretty convincing but now I am mad about this all over again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:09 PM on 11/14/2008
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Me too. It made a lot of sense to me and now I am conflicted again in my feelings about the situation. I am however certain of my feelings for Mr. Lieberman.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:25 PM on 11/14/2008
- KathyinCT I'm a Fan of KathyinCT 65 fans permalink

TAKE ACTION NOW TO OUST LIEBERMAN.

HERE IS HOW TO HELP NOW: http://tools.advomatic.com/7/kickjoe

Click on link or paste it into browser -- it takes you to Firedog Lake's "call Congress" set up . They send you list of the senators who are making decision about Lieberman, provide talking points, and then literally connect you to the office, so you have no phone bill and you get to talk.

SENATOR LEAHY HAS BEEN BRAVE AND IS OPPOSING JOE -- WE NEED TO SUPPORT HIM AND REACH THE OTHERS.

WE ELECTED OBAMA. WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. CALL now!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:08 PM on 11/14/2008
- Daly I'm a Fan of Daly 19 fans permalink

I called but honestly congress needs a slicker tool for contact they work like it's 1950 - phones.
Seems they'd have better processes; but then they still run to floor to vote - gosh I hope technology makes it to the whitehouse. Good to hear Obama will use youtube.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:24 PM on 11/14/2008

Basically, the Democrats are whoring themselves for a vote. Its an important vote but would they
rather show some honor or prostitute themselves?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:08 PM on 11/14/2008

This is so true! I side with showing honor and ousting the creep!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:39 PM on 11/14/2008
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We need to boot Lieberman. Under no circumstance should he be given anything from the Democrats. Let him go and join the Republicans. He would be happier there, and I, as a Democrat, would be happier with him there as well.

BOOT Lieberman now!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:08 PM on 11/14/2008

If this were any other committee, Byah's rationale for leaving Lieberman as Chairman of Homeland Security might make sense from a strategic standpoint.

Question is, can we really trust Lieberman to vote WITH his FORMER party if Obama decides to dial back the previous administration's hawkish rhetoric and pursue diplomacy in the Mid East instead?

Judging by his actions, Joe's first loyalty is to AIPAC and the MIC (and, by extension, the Republican party), NOT to Obama, and NOT to Democrats.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:01 PM on 11/14/2008
- Pupster I'm a Fan of Pupster 14 fans permalink

When is the last time you heard of a chairman of a committee getting kicked out in the middle of a term? I've never seen it.

The committee is not just about the guy. He sets up an entire office to support that committee, filled with his guys on salary. A committee's personnel can be huge, much bigger than the senator's office. You can't just dump him on a whim later on.

If they are getting rid of him, they have to do it now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:02 PM on 11/14/2008
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