Phoenix, Philadelphia, Atlanta Mayors Want Share Of The Bailout

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CHRIS SUNDHEIM | November 14, 2008 10:32 PM EST | AP

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The Philadelphia skyline is seen in a In a Monday, June 16, 2008 file photo taken from Camden, New Jersey. The mayors of Philadelphia, Atlanta and Phoenix asked the federal government Friday, Nov. 14, 2008, to use a portion of the $700 billion financial bailout to assist struggling cities. (AP Photo/Tom Mihale, File)

Mayors of three cities hit hardest by the economic crisis _ Philadelphia, Atlanta and Phoenix _ asked the federal government Friday for a piece of the $700 billion bailout package, saying they need help just like financial institutions.

Mayor Michael Nutter of Philadelphia said he wants "to make sure that cities and metro areas are at the table, that their voices are being heard, that our challenges and problems are well understood, so that we can get relief."

The mayors proposed providing loans to help cities pay pension costs. They also want $50 billion in loans for infrastructure investments and additional one-year loans to cities that are unable to borrow cash because of tight credit markets.

"The future prosperity of this country is tied directly to our ability to provide basic services and quality infrastructure to our citizens," Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin wrote in a letter to Rep. Charles Rangel, chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee. "We are at serious risk in failing in that most basic public responsibility."

President-elect Barack Obama has also called for some sort of aid to state and local governments so they do not have to raise taxes or lay off workers while the federal government tries to revive the economy. But he has not proposed or endorsed a specific plan.

In Atlanta, an expected budget shortfall of $50 million to $60 million means that 4,600 city employees will have their weekly hours and pay cut by 10 percent. The city has also adopted a hiring freeze for most agencies and dipped into its reserves for $12 million.

And those were not the first budget cuts. Earlier this year, Atlanta laid off 372 employees, eliminated about 900 jobs and raised some fees.

The mayors made their request in a letter to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson.

Story continues below

Asked about the request, a Treasury spokeswoman referred to Paulson's statement Wednesday that assistance to state and local governments was not the purpose of the bailout funding.

"The focus ... is to stabilize financial institutions and strengthen the financial system, promote lending and so on," Paulson said.

U.S. cities have seen revenue fall 4.3 percent from last year, according to Chris Hoene, director of policy and research at the National League of Cities.

For the first time since 1985, a survey showed that revenue from property, income and sales taxes are all down simultaneously, and widespread cuts in services are likely, he said.

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg said he is open to receiving federal assistance, but he doesn't think it's likely.

"We would certainly love to have our share of it," he told reporters Friday. "Everybody's lining up now. There's no industry that isn't saying 'We need a bailout.' There's no government entity that all of a sudden isn't saying 'We need a bailout.'"

Other cities such as Dallas and Wilmington, Del., hope to obtain help from a separate assistance package being promoted by the U.S. Conference of Mayors. Congressional leaders plan to push for a second round of economic-stimulus measures in a lame-duck session next week.

In Lexington, Ky., officials would like $125 million to hire more police and make improvements to a wastewater treatment plant, the airport and the city's downtown.

"These aren't luxury items," Mayor Jim Newberry said. "These requests represent pent-up needs for the basics."

In San Jose, Calif., Mayor Chuck Reed initially said Friday that he planned to request his city's "fair share" of the bailout package _ 2 percent, or $14 billion _ to pay for mass transit improvements and expansion of the area's clean-technology businesses. He reversed course later in the day, saying he wouldn't request the bailout money at this point.

In Philadelphia, the city pension system lost more than $650 million in the first nine months of the year.

Last week, Nutter announced the city would lay off municipal employees, cut salaries, close most of its swimming pools and shut nearly a dozen library branches to cope with a $108 million shortfall this year caused by declining business and real estate tax revenue. The deficit could grow to $1 billion over five years, he said.

Phoenix's budget deficit is at least $200 million and could reach $250 million by June if tax revenues keep sliding. That figure represents up to 22 percent of the city's $1.2 billion general fund, which pays for most city services.

City officials say the cuts will affect every department. Phoenix will probably reduce hours at libraries, community centers and public pools and cut bus routes, among dozens of other actions.

If the government agrees to help, Phoenix could use the money to build new police and fire stations, water-treatment plants and extensions to a new light rail network.

"We're going to have to do this in order to keep our city growing and healthy and safe," Mayor Phil Gordon said.

___

Associated Press writers Kimberly Hefling in Washington, Sara Kugler in New York, Chris Kahn in Phoenix and Jason Dearen in San Francisco contributed to this report.

Mayors of three cities hit hardest by the economic crisis _ Philadelphia, Atlanta and Phoenix _ asked the federal government Friday for a piece of the $700 billion bailout package, saying they need he...
Mayors of three cities hit hardest by the economic crisis _ Philadelphia, Atlanta and Phoenix _ asked the federal government Friday for a piece of the $700 billion bailout package, saying they need he...
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Detroit's City Council also asked for $10 billion bailout from the feds too....In the meantine, my family and I are requesting a $5 million bailout, I mean its chump change compared to these other people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:41 PM on 11/14/2008
- MNmommy I'm a Fan of MNmommy 407 fans permalink
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I'd settle for a cool 50k.

Seriously - that'd pay for a lot of the extras I feel like we might need to give up if certain costs keep skyrocketing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:45 PM on 11/14/2008
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I'd settle for dinner for two at my favorite restaurant.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 PM on 11/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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I wouldn't give those despicable crooks a dime...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 PM on 11/14/2008
- vinny I'm a Fan of vinny 103 fans permalink
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can you provide the link to those bailout forms?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:49 PM on 11/14/2008

Give me a break. I saw what Phoenix has been doing with regard to growth since 2000. That greedy build, develop L.A attitude has gotten them in trouble due to poor planning and over spending. Why should they get bailouts for running their businesses poorly. Is their Senator going to fight that battle for them?
On that note, the US auto industry makes me sick. They've been whining for 20+ years that foreign imports were hurting their business but did absolutely nothing to compete except make bigger and uglier gas guzzlers. They should have been investing in re-tooling factories over those 20+ years and would have invested in their longevity. Now they need money for making crappy cars that we don't want and not heeding market research data? They should fail if they can't compete for whatever reason. I strongly oppose Pelosi on this one. No -f-in way should they get bailed out. They all need to grow up and start thinking progressively about business and politics. What will it be next? The cable companies? Fast food industry? Department stores? Sheesh.
Thanks a lot Bush and Co. We all lose.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 11/14/2008
- arvada I'm a Fan of arvada 60 fans permalink
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Bailouts for blue states.Wooden nickels for red states

Wood that be mean? 8)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:45 PM on 11/14/2008
- arvada I'm a Fan of arvada 60 fans permalink
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oops ( would )

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:46 PM on 11/14/2008
- vinny I'm a Fan of vinny 103 fans permalink
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True about Phoenix. East Valley speculation has been rampant. Houses are way over-priced.

True about American auto industry. When are they going to stop making crappy products?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 PM on 11/14/2008
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 321 fans permalink

There products are not that crappy.. its not the 1980s. I see no difference naymore in My Toyota car and my American made products and neither do the recall numbers or consummer report. But keep thinking like that and you will be out of work.

Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:02 PM on 11/14/2008
- WLA I'm a Fan of WLA 323 fans permalink
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The rethugs on this thread are right. We need to round up and execute the old, poor and blue-collar citizens. That's what we need to do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:37 PM on 11/14/2008

Yep. If it wasn't for old people and union members, the economy would be just peachy keen. Why won't these people work for $2/hour right up until the moment that they die? Ungrateful, lazy b*stards.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:41 PM on 11/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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I will not go quietly!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:43 PM on 11/14/2008
- SCG I'm a Fan of SCG 110 fans permalink
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.... and hire young cheap third world workers to replace them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 PM on 11/14/2008
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Steps to fix the economic crisis:

#1 - end the illegal occupation of Iraq - $10b a month

#2 - end the failed, counterproductive 'war on dr-ugs' - $200b a year

#3 - end the irresponsible Bush tax cuts

#4 - public works projects to keep workers working and spending

#5 - no bailout for car makers without stipulations that they build better handling, more efficient, and more reliable vehicles

It really is that easy

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'ere - Atlanta Progressive Jazz
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    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:37 PM on 11/14/2008

I agree 100% with this. There are ways to cut the spending without throwing everybody under the bus.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:38 PM on 11/14/2008
- WLA I'm a Fan of WLA 323 fans permalink
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YEP.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:42 PM on 11/14/2008
- Invox I'm a Fan of Invox 10 fans permalink
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#6 - End the $15b year subsidies for drug companies.

Anyone else with a suggestion. Maybe we can solve this right here!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 11/14/2008
- RnR I'm a Fan of RnR 30 fans permalink

stop all subsidies to oil companies and thereby eliminate the illusion that oil is more economical than solar/wind etc.,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:41 PM on 11/14/2008
- ZHarris3 I'm a Fan of ZHarris3 28 fans permalink
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stop all subsidies for nukes and thereby eliminate the illusion that nuclear energy is even remotely economically viable.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:44 PM on 11/14/2008
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 321 fans permalink

Have the Government set the price of the drugs as does the rest of the world. That way we will not pay 5 times as much for the same drug and the rest of the world will have to pay more instead of us subsidizing the cost of their drugs... that will save this country 200 billion or more per year.

Go to a single payer system and that will save us 800 billion per year since we spend 3 times as much on healthcare and 40% of that goes to insurance companies.

Close down some of those 750 Foreign bases. And when your just 25% of the worlds GDP and no longer 53% you cant spend more on your militray than the rest of the world combined. another 200 billion in savings and you would still spend 4 times more than anyone else.

Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 PM on 11/14/2008
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I sencond these ideas.

Especiall the phony wars...eye-rack and the PHONY war on drugs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 11/14/2008
- ZHarris3 I'm a Fan of ZHarris3 28 fans permalink
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The spending on the drug war is about $60 billion, still excessive, and the $200 billion black market could be taxed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 11/14/2008
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I sencond these ideas.

Especiall the phony wars...eye-rack and the PHONY war on "dr-ugs."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:40 PM on 11/14/2008
- johnmorgan I'm a Fan of johnmorgan 17 fans permalink

Eye-rack is part of the phony war on terror.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 11/14/2008

Coming soon, hyperinflation? Might be time to look over your old stamp collection -- Germany, 1923. Get a feel for what is coming.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:36 PM on 11/14/2008
- Big0725 I'm a Fan of Big0725 23 fans permalink
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I have a 6 months supply of ramen. I'll be fine!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 11/14/2008
- StevieRae I'm a Fan of StevieRae 17 fans permalink
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This request from state governments (at all levels) is the huge elephant in the room. We think retail sales are off and companies are laying off or declaring bankruptcy, wait until you local government, city, county and state begins their cuts.
Be prepared to hear that cuts will have to be made to education, police and fire unless you're willing to pay more in property or sales taxes. It's going to get ugly.

Maybe like those who are espousing that GM should be allowed to go into bankruptcy to completely change its business, labor agreement, etc., this calamitous event will cause us to review the role (s) of local government. What governmental services are vital and necessary vs those local municipal/county extra services that seem to grow when revenues are high?
As painful as it will get maybe we have an chance in a lifetime to decide the roles of government by doing a review that all businesses are doing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:36 PM on 11/14/2008

How about assisting rust belt cities that never experienced a significant rebound in the 90s?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:35 PM on 11/14/2008
- salsmom I'm a Fan of salsmom 5 fans permalink

This is a runaway train with no conductor or engineer on board.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:35 PM on 11/14/2008
- Invox I'm a Fan of Invox 10 fans permalink
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ENOUGH! All of this crap should be called to a halt NOW! Bush and Paulson snookered and snowed Congress and the American people one last time. Banks who have received cash and still won't make loans because they prefer to give employee bonuses and buy other banks should have their accounts frozen and all taxpayer money left returned to the Treasury. AIG'S accounts should be frozen and the same goes for them. Send it back NOW! No more bailout money to anyone unless it's directly to the American taxpayer. This whole thing has been a sham and a crime. We're now at a point where it's survival of the fittest and those left standing can start all over again. Nearly all of this is a result of greed, corruption and poor management. I don't want to pay for any more of it! This is WRONG!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 11/14/2008
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You are sooooo right!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:49 PM on 11/14/2008
- SCG I'm a Fan of SCG 110 fans permalink
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Economist Ravi Batra has an excellent idea, the government buy shares of the auto cos. until they have 60% control, then allow the auto workers to govern those shares.

They'll know where the d.ead wood and bottlenecks are in the company. Share the sacrifice to get the companies back on their feet.

They couldn't do much worse than our vastly over paid CEO's

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 PM on 11/14/2008

No a bad idea at all. And you're right, they can't do any worse than the id*ot CEOs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 11/14/2008
- SCG I'm a Fan of SCG 110 fans permalink
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They've dirt cheap now. And if your a worker you know first hand how a company's management is or isn't functioning. Who better to pin point improvements, and have a stake in the game?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:37 PM on 11/14/2008
- ZHarris3 I'm a Fan of ZHarris3 28 fans permalink
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As long as you didn't take my free car every 3 months, free insurance and free gasoline...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:36 PM on 11/14/2008
- Big0725 I'm a Fan of Big0725 23 fans permalink
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That's one smart south Asian! Was he on Thom Hartmann today?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 11/14/2008
- SCG I'm a Fan of SCG 110 fans permalink
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Yes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:43 PM on 11/14/2008
- donaldw6 I'm a Fan of donaldw6 357 fans permalink
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Now you're talking! Batra is a brilliant economist, and if we're really serious, we'll start listening to people like him. Why pretend that we can just throw money at them, and think they're ever really going to change? This would generate plenty of enthusiasm, and spark lots of creativity in the auto industry, which happens to be exactly what we need.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:42 PM on 11/14/2008
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You are right, we have been asking the foxes what to do about the hen house security, or rather lack of.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:50 PM on 11/14/2008
- MIVOTE I'm a Fan of MIVOTE 168 fans permalink
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I like it!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:46 PM on 11/14/2008
- CharlesJ I'm a Fan of CharlesJ 16 fans permalink
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NO way... I am begining to regret this bill as it has done nothing to help Mainstream America. I am slowly beginnning to believe that the city, county and state governments as well as corporate America needs to suck it up just like the vast majority of Americans are having to do. The all have Chapter 11 and 13 bankruptsy as an option, each and everyone of them have that option. I lost everything in a chapter 7 bankruptsy that cost me my home remodeling business when the Housing Market collapsed. It is not that I miss managed a thing, the market just dried up and there was no work. Corporate America to inclued city, county and state governments as well as the big 3 auto makers have miss managed their assets some have even squandered them with perks outrageous salaries and of course just careless spending. They should suck it up like millions of us business owners that went under, they should also suck it up just like 95% of all Americans are having to and have done for the past year or more.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:32 PM on 11/14/2008
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It will be interesting to see if you are sining the same tune when your house catches fire and no one shows up because the city you live in "sucked it up"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:35 PM on 11/14/2008
- jojojo I'm a Fan of jojojo 11 fans permalink

sucking it up should mean that city workers--including cops and firefighters--give back some of their benefits. Everyone else is losing benefits, they should too. In NYC, they work lots of overtime their last year or two and get more in pension than they did in base pay while working. that's just not right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:44 PM on 11/14/2008
- CharlesJ I'm a Fan of CharlesJ 16 fans permalink
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Thats something I dont have any more after the bankruptsy. Lost the house, furniture, vehicle, savings and 401K, plus put 22 employees on the unemployment line. So if that house goes up in smoke, the bank now owns it, they have not been able to unload it since they took it, so maybe they would benefit from that. What ya think.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:39 PM on 11/14/2008
- jojojo I'm a Fan of jojojo 11 fans permalink

Exactly, and the workers should share the burden, whether auto workers in Detroit or bus drivers in Philly. I'm in a union, but sometimes unions are too expensive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:36 PM on 11/14/2008
- Big0725 I'm a Fan of Big0725 23 fans permalink
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I beg to differ on that.

Wages drive the demand and demand drives the economy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 PM on 11/14/2008
- Big0725 I'm a Fan of Big0725 23 fans permalink
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Charles, I'm sorry for your misfortune, but your company doesn't provide essential services.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:57 PM on 11/14/2008

I think we are all missing something here: One of our biggest problems started with homeowners and those adjustable rates mortgages that went up with such high increases in payments. This is where it started. Where is the money for these homeowners? Sure, there has been a ripple effect. But we must remember, the foreclosures are increasing, October has the highest percentage increase. We have got to find a way to stop this. As the FED bails out these banks, insurance companies, and cities, what we need to do is to have these mortgages adjust to the current true market value. Why should a homeowner have a mortgage of $200,000 when the house in only worth $60,000? No sane person will continue paying on such a mortgage. Fast modification on these loans is the answer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:30 PM on 11/14/2008
- jojojo I'm a Fan of jojojo 11 fans permalink

But how about those of us who lived within our means and didn't buy houses we couldn't afford? Now we're supposed to pay for our neighbors' overspending on houses, boats, restaurants? Why did we bother to live within our means? We should have spent, spent, spent, using your logic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 PM on 11/14/2008
- Big0725 I'm a Fan of Big0725 23 fans permalink
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That's my gripe too JoJoJo!

I've been living in either very nice apartments that cost more than a mortgage or in sh!tty apartments to save up for something decent of my own that didn't cost $300,000 for a 3/2 in a crappy neighborhood.

Where's our prize for being fiscally responsible?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:43 PM on 11/14/2008
- vinny I'm a Fan of vinny 103 fans permalink
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I agree.

There's no reason why the rest of us have to support with the over-priced housing market with our tax dollars.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:45 PM on 11/14/2008
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You seem to begrudge helping those who have fallen on hard times.

That's a very unattractive attitude.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:50 PM on 11/14/2008
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This is a country. This isn't about YOU. We rise or fail AS A NATION! I am happy you are doing well. I have been laid off twice in one year. One of those jobs was shipped overseas. I don't know what you do, but I do pray it is secure. You should care about your fellows. What happens if it gets so tough the streets are filled with desperate people?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:54 PM on 11/14/2008
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 321 fans permalink

Just freeze the bottom prices to 2004 Appraised value. Thats stops the fall and does not coswt anything.

The housing loan problem just exposed the much larger financial problems and our weakness as a borrow and spend economy as opposed to a super MFG power. The exporting of mFG and not having a single payer system, and free trade which no one else practices.. instead of fair trade is the problem. Oil speculation caused by the repugs and wasting 3 trillion In Iraq were much more of the problem than sub prime housing., along with huge trade deficits.

On CNBC today , there was one guy saying that this would all be over if the capital gains tax was just droped to zero! LOL... It was decreased and look where that got us?. No one likes taxes... but no one likes a bankrupt government. If you dont like taxes then why do you support Troops all over the world?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 11/14/2008
- truthforme I'm a Fan of truthforme 9 fans permalink

Our problems started way before that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:41 PM on 11/14/2008
- Big0725 I'm a Fan of Big0725 23 fans permalink
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I've heard more than one economist tell people that are way upside down on their mortgage to simply walk away from it. With the tightness of the credit markets already, there doesn't seen much to lose but doing so.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 PM on 11/14/2008

Has Nutter done anything while he's been mayor? Philadelphia has got great resources and great people, it should be able to power through this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:29 PM on 11/14/2008
- deeppeace I'm a Fan of deeppeace 56 fans permalink
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Great resources?! Something's changed in the last 6 years?! It was a p!$$-hole when I left.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 PM on 11/14/2008

Just because it smells like a pi$$hole doesn't actually make it a pi$$hole.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:35 PM on 11/14/2008
- jojojo I'm a Fan of jojojo 11 fans permalink

If we do bail out cities and auto companies--and it looks like the auto industry must get help to save jobs-- part of the deal ought to be reduced medical and pension benefits for workers and retirees. Reduced, not eliminated, then progressively phased down for future workers. Unions are good things. I belong to a union. Sometimes, however, unions can be too powerful and too expensive, whether it's city workers or auto workers. I lived in NYC for 30 years, and the bus drivers, for instance, would work lots of overtime in their last 2 or 3 years, thereby ensuring that their retirement pay, after 20 years, was higher than their base pay they earned while on the job! Same for cops and firefighters. That's just not the way it ought to be, though police and firefighters should be taken care of. Not, however, the ones who fake disability, which happens more than you would believe. Fake a disability, and lose your pension forever, period.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 PM on 11/14/2008
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Those concessions are already in the 2010 contracts for the UAW workers. It's a done deal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 PM on 11/14/2008
- jojojo I'm a Fan of jojojo 11 fans permalink

but not in city workers contracts..and yes, UAW has done givebacks, before this all went to hell. If more are needed, so be it. You and I shouodn't be the only ones to sacrifice so UAW can keep thier jobs, they may need to sacrifice further.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 11/14/2008
- WLA I'm a Fan of WLA 323 fans permalink
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Yes. Scr3w the workers. They were the ones who let the auto companies bleed out. The CEO's kept trying their best, but those damm workers kept holding them back from progress.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:36 PM on 11/14/2008

Yeah, those 8-figure salaries and perks at the top have nothing to do with it. Clearly it's all the workers' fault.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 11/14/2008
- dmsdzinr I'm a Fan of dmsdzinr 28 fans permalink

HEY Let's ALL ask for OUR piece of the PIE! I need a bailout TOO!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 PM on 11/14/2008
- ZHarris3 I'm a Fan of ZHarris3 28 fans permalink
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Sorry, you get cake...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 PM on 11/14/2008
- Big0725 I'm a Fan of Big0725 23 fans permalink
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No soup for you!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:30 PM on 11/14/2008
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