Gay Rights Rallies Held Nationwide To Protest California Marriage Ban

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JAY LINDSAY | November 15, 2008 11:52 PM EST | AP

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Alexander Sanchez of San Francisco, waves a rainbow colored flag to a large crowd of supporters of same-sex marriage as they cheer in front of San Francisco City Hall on Saturday, Nov. 15, 2008. Thousands of demonstrators gathered to listen to speakers and protest the passage of Proposition 8, a ballot measure amending California's constitution to ban same-sex marriage. The event is part of a simultaneous protest planned in hundreds of communities. (AP Photo/Darryl Bush)

BOSTON — Gay rights supporters waving rainbow colors marched, chanted and danced in cities coast to coast Saturday to protest the vote that banned gay marriage in California and to urge supporters not to quit the fight for the right to wed.

Crowds gathered near public buildings in cities large and small, including Boston, San Francisco, Chicago and Fargo, to vent their frustrations, celebrate gay relationships and renew calls for change.

"Civil marriages are a civil right, and we're going to keep fighting until we get the rights we deserve as American citizens," said Karen Amico, one of several hundred protesters in Philadelphia, holding up a sign reading "Don't Spread H8".

"We are the American family, we live next door to you, we teach your children, we take care of your elderly," said Heather Baker a special education teacher from Boston who addressed the crowd at Boston's City Hall Plaza. "We need equal rights across the country."

Connecticut, which began same-sex weddings this past week, and Massachusetts are the only two states that allow gay marriage. The other 48 states do not, and 30 of them have taken the extra step of approving constitutional amendments. A few states allow civil unions or domestic partnerships that grant some rights of marriage.

Protests following the vote on Proposition 8 in California, which defined marriage as between a man and a woman, have sometimes been angry and even violent, and demonstrators have targeted faiths that supported the ban, including the Mormon church.

However, representatives of Join the Impact, which organized Saturday's demonstrations, asked supporters to be respectful and refrain from attacking other groups during the rallies.

Seattle blogger Amy Balliett, who started the planning for the protests when she set up a Web page three days after the California vote, said persuasion is impossible without civility.

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"If we can move anybody past anger and have a respectful conversation, then you can plant the seed of change," she said.

Balliett said supporters in 300 cities in the U.S. and other countries were holding marches, and she estimated 1 million people would participate, based on responses at the Web sites her group set up.

"We need to show the world when one thing happens to one of us, it happens to all of us," she said.

The protests were widely reported to be peaceful, and the mood in Boston was generally upbeat, with attendees dancing to the song "Respect." Signs cast the fight for gay marriage as the new civil rights movement, including one that read "Gay is the new black."

But anger over the ban and its backers was evident at the protests.

One sign in Chicago, where several thousand people gathered, read: "Catholic Fascists Stay Out of Politics."

"I just found out that my state doesn't really think I'm a person," said Rose Aplustill, 21, a Boston University student from Los Osos, Calif., who was one of thousands at the Boston rally.

In San Francisco, demonstrators took shots at some religious groups that supported the ban, including a sign aimed at the Mormon church and its abandoned practice of polygamy that read: "You have three wives; I want one husband."

Chris Norberg, who married his partner in June, also referred to the racial divisions that arose after exit polls found that majorities of blacks and Hispanics supported the constitutional ban on same-sex marriage.

"They voted against us," Norberg said.

In Salt Lake City, where demonstrators gathered just blocks from the headquarters of the Mormon church, one sign pictured the city's temple with a line adapted from former Republican vice president candidate Sarah Palin: "I can see discrimination from my house."

More than 500 demonstrators in Washington marched from the U.S. Capitol through the city carrying signs and chanting "One, two, three, four, love is what we're fighting for!"

A public plaza at the foot of New York's Brooklyn Bridge was packed by a cheering crowd of thousands, including people who waved rainbow flags and wore pink buttons that said "I do."

Protests were low-key in North Dakota, where people lined a bridge in Fargo carrying signs and flags.

Mike Bernard, who was in the crowd of hundreds at City Hall in Baltimore, said Proposition 8 could end up being a good thing for gay rights advocates.

"It was a swift kick in the rear end," he said.

In Los Angeles, protesters gathered near City Hall before marching through downtown. Police said 10,000 to 12,000 people demonstrated.

Supporters of traditional marriage said the rallies may have generated publicity but ultimately made no difference.

"They had everything in the world going for them this year, and they couldn't win," said Frank Schubert, co-manager of the Yes on 8 campaign in California. "I don't think they're going to be any more successful in 2010 or 2012."

In Chicago, Keith Smith, 42, a postal worker, and his partner, Terry Romo, 34, a Wal-Mart store manager, had photos of a commitment ceremony they held, though gay marriage is not legal in Illinois.

"We're not going to wait for no law," Smith said. "But time's going to be on our side and it's going to change."

___

Contributing to this report were Associated Press writers Rupa Shenoy in Chicago, Adam Goldman in New York, JoAnn Loviglio in Philadelphia, Sarah Brumfield in Baltimore, Linda Ashton in Salt Lake City, Blake Nicholson in Bismarck, N.D., Tom Verdin in Sacramento, Calif., and Kamala Lane in Washington.

BOSTON — Gay rights supporters waving rainbow colors marched, chanted and danced in cities coast to coast Saturday to protest the vote that banned gay marriage in California and to urge supporte...
BOSTON — Gay rights supporters waving rainbow colors marched, chanted and danced in cities coast to coast Saturday to protest the vote that banned gay marriage in California and to urge supporte...
 
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As I said in earlier posts, the best defense is offense. I say we join the Zoophi-Right Revolution, or the Beastiality-Rights Revolution whatever it's called and get the whole freaky right worried about other people for a change!

If you don't know what I'm talking about watch COMING SOON for free at http://www.comingsoon.cz.

Another great documentary is THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS featuring an incredible soundtrack by Stevie Wonder,

You can see it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiFapKB59Ow

All of these works demonstrate the Equality and Unity in All of nature, which is the antithesis of the Bible's view, where Humans are at the top of the physical hierarchy.

I say EQUALITY FOR ALL ;-)))

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:34 PM on 11/17/2008
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I wonder how long it is going to take for the Supreme Court to get these cases and overturn the marriage ban? Within the next year or two?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:40 AM on 11/17/2008

Sooner I hope! BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 AM on 11/17/2008

It all depends if the CA Supreme Court decides to examine the documents presented by OUR side and examine the documents on THEIR side at the earliest possible place on the docket...or table it for future forecast.

If we keep up the pressure and the rallies and the streets.....they are politicians, albeit the majority appointed by Republican governors, albeit moderates, we should have it adjudicated rather quickly in the spring of 2009.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:16 PM on 11/17/2008

the disgrace is, that an underlying reason why propoiston 8 succeeeded in california in an electeon cycle when democrats swept the elections, is that obama is on record, like almost all the democratic party leadership, as not supporting same sex marriages.

then too, as obama drew huge numbers of african amercian's to the polls, exit polling shows that 70 percent of those voters, voted for propoisiton 8.

what should really be on trial here, is not smae sex marriage, but the cowardly leadership of the democratic party on the issue of gay civil rights, as democrats take a back seat on gay civil rights and trip all over each other, runnign away from supporting gay marriage because they believe it is polictically expedient to do so.

how many more "slave states" is the democreatic party and our newly elected prresident going to allow to stand in opposiiton to full gay civil rights, as its leadership sides with the right wing biggots.

are we really suppposed to believe that obama, the clintons, the new v.p, biden, and all the rest of the 'progresive" democrats are so out of touch with mainstream america, the udner thirty generation, the majority of their constituency, that they would have us believe they are really personally opposed to same sex marriage.

for what they wrongly perceive, as exepdiency, in a changed poltical environment, they cling to defensive politics, , and are continuting to enable the biggots and hate mongers in callifornia and elswehere.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:32 AM on 11/17/2008

Gays don't hurt children, POLYGAMISTS do. BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 AM on 11/17/2008

As difficult as it is to read some of your words, we gays and lesbians live with the knowledge that one political party is on record to do us no good, but do us no harm, and the Republicans will do us no good, and moreover, would like to do us permanent harm.
'
Given that choice, you vote for the Democrat who is electable and who will keep his promise to do no harm. The last Democrat, of course, made that promise and gave us DADT and DOMA. Those lessons teach us eternal vigilance.

Let's face it....those who want to provide us with second tier-rights and privileges less than marriage....or a step above jumping the broom.... is the Democrats fearful of losing an election on a Rovian trick and awakening the theocratic tiger .

WE KNOW what the Republicans want...recriminalize sodomy.....redefine mental illness......remove RDP, civil unions and keep DOMA and enact an FMA.

WE PRAY that the Republicans and especially their Theocrats will become so enfeebled that we can let some testosterone flow into the Democratic gonads and like 1965, find a leader willing to finally provide us with our human rights.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:09 PM on 11/17/2008
- Mort I'm a Fan of Mort permalink
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On a site that has consistantly diminished and ridiculed Mormons, all of a sudden they're a hugely powerful influence? That's nuts! Catholics had a major role in this too, as did other groups. But it goes beyond that. No one group speaks for all Americans. On this issue, all sides have lobbied ferrociously. Everybody has an opinion and each is convinced they're right. And every time it turns into a fight, we all lose.

In this case it's not a matter of "fault" anyway. The majority of VOTERS in CA voted one way. Not one church or another. The population voted, which is how our system was designed to work.

Personally, I think rights should not be limited. But the blaming and demonizing won't solve that. Tolerance can't be won with a club over the head. That only polarizes the sides and creates more of the already miserable us vs them habit we seem to have about all our differences. We need to stop being enemies before we can be friends.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:42 AM on 11/17/2008

Why do I have a feeling that the PR firm hired by the LDS is busy on this blog and others? There is a tone on many blogs that simply says," Why are you blaming the blameless Mormons?" I saw that PR CEO this morning spewing that same sorry slime on CNN and MSNBC. Bait and switch is being used.....aren't blacks or papists to blame?

They may be only 12 million in population, but they are a tremendously powerful group in this country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 11/17/2008
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Standard MO.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:44 PM on 11/17/2008

I'm a married heterosexual with a preschooler. I attend the Catholic Church (although I can't say that I am a strong church goer)s, but don't subscribe to all of their views on matters. I don't see at all how homosexuals getting married is going to threaten marriage or my child. As a physician, I believe as well as most good biologists do that you are born either heterosexual or homosexual. My child will be one or the other. I will love her either way. A lot of the problems are due to misinformation and ignorance. Education needs to play a more vital role in getting others to understand.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 AM on 11/17/2008
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It's good to see that one can be a,"strong church goer, but [yet] don't subscribe to all of their views on matters."

Remember the Rev. Wright fiasco where your logic did not play so well with many others?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 AM on 11/17/2008

I said I am not a strong church goer. I mostly go for my wife and child as I am spiritual but not religious. I believe in a higher power, but not necessarily Jesus Christ, and religion. Read it again. Church's do a lot of good in the world as well as a lot of bad as we saw recently. I don't follow what you mean about the Rev Wright comment. Please explain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 AM on 11/17/2008

Oh, I follow what you're saying. Yes, many did think that Obama must have believed everything Rev. Wright espoused. That is ridiculous. I certainly would not want to go along with everything our priest or especially the Vatican has said.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:11 AM on 11/17/2008

"I'm a married heterosexual with a preschooler."


You have established your non-homosexual creds and implied non-bias.


." I attend the Catholic Church (although I can't say that I am a strong church goer)s, but don't subscribe to all of their views on matters"

If you're still attending, I can assume that you escaped being molested by a homosexual priest. Many Catholic children and adolescents were not so fortunate.


" I don't see at all how homosexuals getting married is going to threaten marriage or my child."

Who has ever said it will "threaten" your marriage? It will devalue marriage in general just as overpermissiveness regarding divorce has.

"As a physician, I believe as well as most good biologists do that you are born either heterosexual or homosexual. "

Professonial creds noted. So the belief that homosexuality being genetically determined is indicative of a "good" biologist (but only "most" of them"). So you believe that this form of behavior is genetic. Do you believe that other aspects of behavior such as antisocial, criminal are as well, Doc? Do you have scientific evidence to support your beliefs? Do the "most good biologists" have scientific evidence to support their belief that homosexuality is genetic? Do the few "good" biologists have scientific evidence that it is not?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:46 AM on 11/17/2008
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pathetic

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:53 AM on 11/17/2008
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Homosexuality IS genetic!

I can recall being in "NURSERY" and found myself complimenting the looks of other boys at the age of THREE!

I didn't know what the hell was going on at the time but I just knew when I saw another attractive boy, it was his hand that I wanted to hold when the classs lined up for recess.

Again, age THREE!

So EXPLAIN THAT ONE!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:33 AM on 11/17/2008

GAYS don't hurt children, MORMONS do. BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:37 AM on 11/17/2008
- Manx I'm a Fan of Manx permalink

NBC news devoted about 20 seconds to the gay protests. They gave much more time to a story about falling dominoes. CBS gave it more time and much better coverage.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:37 AM on 11/17/2008

Seems like the Mormon's should lose their tax exemption by getting involved in this way. But, I read that it is only if a church outwardly backs a political candidate. LDS has been behind on a lot of issues including race.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 AM on 11/17/2008

I'm not sure why a church can't get political unless they want to lose their tax exempt status but a political action group can be tax exempt and get political. Why don't all the churches become political action groups? Anyway, it is time to move on, there were two votes and the homosexuals lost. They can't get married in California no matter how many protests there are around the country. There are states and countries where homosexuals can get married or hitched. It isn't discrimination if two homosexuals can't get married and I'm surprised. I question some of these protesters intelligence, especially protesting a vote. How can you protest a vote especially if you don't even live in the state where the vote was taken? This country definitely needs to teach more government in the schools.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 AM on 11/17/2008
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You say,"anyway, it is time to move on"...

--- > Back To The Supreme Court, That Is!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:32 AM on 11/17/2008

some people said there would never be non-discrimination laws 25 years and now they exist in 28 states.................want to bet what will happen in 2033?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:56 AM on 11/17/2008
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Bigotry & Racism throughout the US...Shameful!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 AM on 11/17/2008
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It was in the 80's the Mormon Church allowed "ethnic Minorities" to become full members of the Church. How big of them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:06 AM on 11/17/2008
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IMO they are a bunch of hypocritical polygamists!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 AM on 11/17/2008

Yeah but only because they were going to lose tax exempt status. GAYS don't hurt children, MORMONS do. "BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 AM on 11/17/2008

What's to stop a Proposition to ban Divorce? Divorce is marriage's greatest threat, and even Jesus Christ in Scripture completely denounced it though it was permitted in only certain circumstances by the Old Testament.

If the state can redefine marriage on one level, how can it not be taken further?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 AM on 11/17/2008
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That is an EXCELLENT point. and the best one I've heard in a long time. If California's constitution can be altered to ban same sex marriages, then it should be amended to make divorces illegal.

Hell - they started this, let's keep it going. Like Obama said regarding McCain's campaign - "we will not throw the first punch, but be certain that we will throw the last one."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:21 AM on 11/17/2008

Thousands of MORMON CHILDREN SUFFER. "banking on heaven . com"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:41 AM on 11/17/2008
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Tes, you do have an excellent point!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 AM on 11/17/2008

What's to stop one? Probably lack of popular support,

How can it not be taken further? It can be. All you need is to garner enough votes. Go for it.
As it stands, the portion of the wedding vows stating "until death do us part" is a false oath.
Either the ability to divorce should be rescinded or the oath should be changed to "until death or divorce do us part".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 AM on 11/17/2008

Mr. Snarkopolitan and I were at the NYC protest: thousands lined Broadway on both sides, carrying homemade signs: str8ts against h8, now can I vote on YOUR marriage? and one of my favorites, "SPEND your ENERGY on LOVE!"

A lot of families, toddlers, babes in arms, and NO CRYING! that I heard. The mood was smiling, excited, resolute. We were impressed with the sheer masses of people. Great cheers went up periodically as double decker tour busses passed slowly, the tourists giving thumbs-up, waving, raising cameras and clenched fists.

We never got close to the speakers, but could hear them, especially one who took Olbermann's quote from the Rubaiyat, thundering: "We're HERE! Write OUR Names In the Book of Love!" It was incredibly moving to be a part of that day.

Today, the Daily News had no pictures, and only a couple of paragraphs on an inside page. It said that "hundreds" attended the rally. Perhaps a few people should email them with a correction. I will.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:53 PM on 11/16/2008
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Somebody go grab Pat Robertson and some of his cronies, Cali's on fire and they need all the help they can get!!
Seriously folks, call and contribute to the Red Cross to help those in need if you can!
Stuart & Robert Wyman-Cahall
Las Vegas, NV 89142

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:48 PM on 11/16/2008

it is pretty bad here -- there are very few people out on the roads

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:58 PM on 11/16/2008
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to little to late. better planning next time. the pro prop 8 ran a better campaign. don't take it for granted next time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:24 PM on 11/16/2008

the courts exist to protect the minority from the majority, no one gets to vote on fundamental civil right ultimately,,,,,,,it never works in the end

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:46 PM on 11/16/2008
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So "better ads" that base their appeal on peoples fear instead of intellectual, moral and emotional maturity is still getting your vote huh? Sad for you and all like you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 AM on 11/17/2008
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That attitude reminds me of a story.

In the south they found a black man wrapped in chains drowned in a swamp.

As they pulled the body out, the sheriff remarked,

"Just like a black man to go swimming with chains on."

Blaming the victim will not absolve you of your un-American bigotry.

You should be ashamed, but you're not.

That's one of the symptoms of socio-pathology.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 AM on 11/17/2008
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Sociopathy

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:59 AM on 11/17/2008

I was at the San Diego rally and it was very impressive. I would say that easily a third of the marchers were straight. There were several mainstream churches and their supporters there as well participating. It was exciting and exhilirating. When we finally reached the downtown area the chanting got stronger and louder and was awesome hearing the voices bounce off the buildings. But what I find extremely interesting is that it seems that San Diego had the LARGEST rally. Huh? You mean to tell me that NYC and Chicago and LA which are MUCH bigger than San Diego didnt surpass our size? I dont think the reporting is accurate from those places. Reports are stating that Chicago had only 2000 people and LA 12,000 and NYC only 7,000. What? My friends in all these cities beg to differ. Regardless it was great and the support from the people at Huffpo has been AMAZING!!

When I marched and seeing all the people of ALL shades, colors and walks of life, all I could think of were the words of our President Elect, Barack Obama "NOTHING CAN STAND IN THE WAY OF THE POWER OF MILLIONS OF VOICES CALLING FOR CHANGE"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 PM on 11/16/2008
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I was there in little old conservative San Diego Saturday during the march and it did appear there were plenty of Straights. They know what's at stake - their friends happiness and fears of dwindling Civil Rights for everyone. Get with it Straights, this isn't just a Gay" issue. What's next on the Religious Rights Sate Prop. agenda: abortion rights, adoption rights, censorship, taxation or abolishment on many of the pleasures (or vices) the Mormons disapprove of. Just put your imagination to work on all that the Religious Right wants to take away from us secular sinners. Now vote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:40 AM on 11/17/2008

Yes, I agree - NY Chas no civil marriage, and yet accepts same-sex marriages legally performed elsewhere........Chicago has zilch rights, and so on and so on......and it would seem that those who have nothing would realize that the time is now....THE FIERCE URGENCY OF NOW....when only in 1976 you were considered sick, when in 2003 you were a felonious sodomite.....and only since 2004 could you have civil marriage anywhere legally in the US....but only statewide. A nation with DOMA and a neighbor with full legal civil marriage rights since 2003.

I know that for a long time, we have needed a leader to shepherd our fight. It is NOT Barney Frank of MA, who does not marry his longtime and permanent partner, or many other celebrities that come to mind. But we need someone to lead our struggle.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:35 PM on 11/17/2008

I agree, but give it time. Minorities are oppressed peoples who are despairing after generations of hopelessness. Significant movements often begin with small numbers pioneering the effort.

Remember the class on the Revolutionary war in social studies ? one-third were patriots while one-third were loyal to the Crown and one-third were completely apathetic as to the outcome !!

Several Civil Rights leaders have often spoken or written about the apathy to MLKJR at first. Many black Americans were oppressed persons who trusted that no black person could achieve justice. Many blacks dismissed Dr. King as "uppity" himself ....since he possessed accredited credentials academically. The initial marches were thin, indeed !!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:30 PM on 11/17/2008
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    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 PM on 11/16/2008
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well see just how the mormons have "won".

they screwed themselves BIGTIME.

the courts are starting precedures on overturning prop 8 this week. they have also started investigating just how it got onto the ballot in the first place.

there is no doubt prop 8 will be overturned.

and the mormons have put themselves under a VERY BRIGHT SPOTLIGHT.

many more people in this country now know the ugly truth about mormons. they are disgusted.
even some mormon members have left in desgust !!!!

i know for a fact (inside info) that the LDS is freaking out right now.
they've been scrambling with their lawyers all weekend.

the boycotts will hit mormons' wallets very hard. utah tourism will suffer.

and say goodbye to that tax exemption.


they haven't won anything.
they lost because of their ignorance and a long history of bigotry.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:52 PM on 11/16/2008
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From your keyboard to the Goddesses' eyes!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:58 PM on 11/16/2008

yeah, i think the next time a big push is made like this by the leadership, the rank and file will question it privately and the call will not be answered as it was now, because it will be seen as a big waste of money, after it is overturned.................

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 PM on 11/16/2008

they may learn a lesson from Catholics, and realize that eventually people in a religion go their own way, no group is monolithic in its thinking and action forever..........Mormonism is just starting to "mature" in that way..........

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 PM on 11/16/2008
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Speaking of being on the wrong side of history:

"For nearly 150 years, the Mormon Church had taught that ALL blacks were cursed. Hence, a black Mormon male could not hold the highly regarded LDS Priesthood1 because of his dark skin..."

http://www.christiandefense.org/mor_black.htm

I wonder if all those black fundamentalists who supported Prop 8 realize who THEY got in bed with!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:18 PM on 11/16/2008
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they got in bed with Barack Obama. who does not support gay marriage. he supports unions. this was about gay marriage.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:27 PM on 11/16/2008
- Mort I'm a Fan of Mort permalink
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No, they didn't teach that "ALL blacks were cursed." The "curse" you refer to was Cain's and his alone. And as far as who can hold the priesthood... that has been an evolving thing over the centuries. Anciently, only Levites could be ordained. Thankfully things have changed over the years, in all churches and communities. But let's not make this about race. There's plenty to beat each other up over gay rights without doing that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 AM on 11/17/2008

Wow getting your antiMormon talking points from a known antiMormon group. If I have any questions about gay rights i will consult Anita Bryant. The church will not lose its tax exemption and anyone who thinks they will has never read the IRS regs. You can disagree with the church's position as many people do including many members but to vilify one church while not looking at all the groups who opposed the prop just makes it less likely gay marriage will ever pass.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:40 AM on 11/17/2008

Artemis34, I notice you forgot to mention women can't be priests in the Catholic church. Or that many protestent churches still don't allow a gay minister. Or that both the catholic and protestent churches segregated their memberships during the days before the 1970's in the south. Or that No. African arab muslims STILL practice 'chattel slavery of African blacks'. Or that the muslims were big profiteers on the slave trade to the europeans. Or that muslims still have a death sentence on gays. Or that old christian missionaries had a death sentence on Native-Americans who wanted no part of christianity. You only criticize one group, thats 'cherry-pickin'.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 11/17/2008
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