Mormons Tipped Scale In Gay Marriage Ban With Money, Institutional Support And Dedicated Volunteers

Less than two weeks before Election Day, the chief strategist behind a ballot measure outlawing same-sex marriage in California called an emergency meeting here.

"We're going to lose this campaign if we don't get more money," the strategist, Frank Schubert, recalled telling leaders of Protect Marriage, the main group behind the ban.

Read the whole story here.

Comments

[GodBIessAmerica]

HuffPost's Pick

Jesus was not concerned with outward appearances, including one's gender. He was concerned with what's in a person's heart. If there's real love between two people, regardless of their sex or sexual orientation, you can believe God will bless it, after all, GOD is LOVE. With so much hate in the world, and a lot of it coming from the so called "religious right," wouldn't it be refreshing to embrace love instead? To all the Mormons, Catholics and Christians out there that are confused about where to stand on the issue of gay marriage, simply ask yourself, is that confusion coming from a place of love or a place of fear and hate? I believe God will continue to bless America, sanctify gay marriage and that this is merely a test that will ultimately prove love is stronger than hate and gay marriage is acceptable in the eyes of God. Peace be with you.

[Poyda]

Here is why logic never works on religious bigo ts:

Premise 1: Gay people are born gay (established by scientific studies of twins, and studies of prepubescent behavior, genetic markers, fact that all social cues are to NOT be gay as opposed to aspire to be gay etc.)

Premise 2: God created all human beings and bestowed them with equal and inalienable rights.

Conclusion: God is in favor of all human beings (including gay ones) enjoying their equal and inalienable rights.

Of course, religious people do not like the conclusion because it doesn't fit their big otry, so what do they do? They substitute the science-reality-based premise with another religious premise (i.e. Gays made themselves gay).

[bubbuh]

The Angel Moroni dropped off a gold-plated addendum in my garage this morning, saying that for every woman a Mormon marries he or she must marry a man as well.

Now, I know you're incredulous but I know it's true. There were signs and portents. And, He signed His name and the bottom.

[MourningDood]

What did he look like?

[helonias]

What kind of seer stones do you have, would you like to borrow mine

[typhoon1999]

When you can't argue the facts, you go to the stereotypes and prejudices about polygamy. Like the stereotype that gays try to convert children. It's wrong either way.

[AllanF]

How's that converting of Holocaust victims coming along? Locking the names away in the mountain? All on schedule?

[MourningDood]

What benefit did an LDS member derive for supporting this cause?

What punishment did they face for not supporting it?

What measures were taken to intimidate LDS members to volunteer, donate, or vote in one way or another?

Reading a statement one time during services?

-laugh-

[gifu]

A lil' LSD for the LDS might be the cure.........

[blasofsky]

Hey!

Two close friends and I recently started a grassroots site (http://OurVoicesForMarriage.com) as a response to Proposition 8 passing. It is a VERY basic, no-frills site that allows individuals to voice their sadness, their frustration, and, most importantly, their personal stories on how the passing of Proposition 8 effected them. Our hope is that President-Elect Obama will soon announce a GLBT liaison whom we can refer to this site, and, who in turn, will refer President Obama to it with the hope he will speak out and say, loud and clear, that discrimination written into any constitution is a violation of everyone's civil rights.

PLEASE take a moment, go to the site, and post YOUR story. The more voices we have the louder our message will be. . .

http://ourvoicesformarriage.com

Thanks!

[bannorhill]

The Supreme Court has never ruled that some sex "marriage" is a right. Over 40 states have laws and/or state constitutional amendments outlawing same sex "marriages" in their states. Not one of those statutes has been fount unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court. Until such a ruling same sex marriage is not a "right".

[YellowDogInRedCounty]

As usual, you leave out certain facts that lessen the impact of your statements.

First of all, you say the Supreme Court has never ruled that same sex marriage is a right. That's true but only because the issue has never come before them. You go on to say that over 40 states have laws and/or constitutional amendments outlawing same sex marriages. Factually you are incorrect - the number is somewhat less but still too many. The larger issue here, though, is that just because there is such a law and/or amendment does not make it right. We had legalized slavery at one time. It was not legal for women to vote at one time. Does that make it right?

You can say it is not a right but that does not make it so. Show me ANY reading of the US Constitution that says same sex marriage is not a right.

[MourningDood]

So you say that under the US Constitution all citizens have a civil right to the same taxation as any other?

California already has civil unions that grant almost every benefit that marriage does. The only inequality that I've come up with has to do with tax liability.

But it's pretty clear that the government is able to enforce a VERY unequal tax law, which is often catered to very specific groups of people to the exclusion of all others.

You seem to be arguing that a flat tax is in order, since people have a civil right to equal taxation.

[bannorhill]

OK here are the facts. Requests to review the constitutionality of same sex "marriage" bans have been appealed to the US Supreme Court. In EVERY case the US Supreme Court has refused to hear arguments which uphold the lower court rulings. That is ruling lets the lower court rulings stand.

On the marriage status go to
http://marriage.about.com/cs/marriagelicenses/a/samesexcomp.htm

The following states do NOT have a law or constitutional provision banning gay marriage:
Connecticut
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
Rhode Island
Vermont

That is 8 states. 42 States define marriage as between one man and one woman.

Same sex marriage is NOT a right. It does not matter how you or I read the Constitution until the US Supreme court rules otherwise it is not a right.

[lhsouthern1988]

boy are the writers of this article lacking on their research of how the mormon church has used their money and volunteers to unsurp legislation: think ERA! THey used the same tactics on defeating prop 8 as the ERA in the late 1970's.

[abbeyroad]

the "black voters blame game" is a tactic
devised by the yes on 8 churches to deflect blame off of themselves.

this isn't black / white issue.

[MourningDood]

Well, you can't blame the voters who voter 52+% to pass 8, (the ONLY people that matter in a ballot initiative) because that would be anti-democracy and anti-American.

And you can't blame the blacks who voted 70+% to pass 8, because that would be racist.

And you can't blame the Catholics, because too many people like and respect them.

But those Mormons, yeah, that's the ticket. It's ALL their fault...

[YellowDogInRedCounty]

I blame the Mor_ons more than the other groups because there were the biggest financial backers of the propostion.

[abbeyroad]

the lds mormons have been plotting this for YEARS.

internal lds memos -- here's the proof:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/3/15369/3779/711/651188

[MasterfullyInept]

Gee like evidence means anything anymore.If your on the right in this country you can do whatever the hell you want.The IRS has rules about tax exempt entities lobbying or otherwise trying to influence politics?Tough toenails.

[MourningDood]

Ooh, proof that they care about this issue??

Churches have directly been impacted by gay marriage laws already.

They have had to shut down adoption services in some states because the state was going to force them to cater to same sex couples.

Mormons didn't pass Prop 8, millions of Californians of all different religious and ethnic backgrounds all come together and did that.

The fact that people are SO mad at the Mormon church for reading a statement one time in their services tells us much more about the complainers than it does about the Mormon church.

[YellowDogInRedCounty]

Correction - They (churches) CHOSE to shut down adoption services. They didn't HAVE to.

[PlantGod72]

You're either ill-informed or simply dishonest and deliberately trying to mislead. I'll leave it to you to figure out which it is. The statement read "one time" was NOT the extent of the LDS involvement in pushing this disgusting law through .

[bannorhill]

You deliver a petition with 17,000 signatures. That is Less than 3% of the 600,000 signatures required to get Prop 8 on the ballot and about 0.2 % of California voters. Why should the Mormon church listen to you?

[MourningDood]

So let's sum this up.

The LDS church was the LAST of a large group of churches to join in on the Prop 8 cause. (So they apparently weren't slobbering all over themselves to go get those gays, blah blah blah).

They didn't use any church facilities, money, or resources to do anything for this campaign, and went to great lengths to make sure that there couldn't even be an appearance of doing so. This not "the church" weighing in, it was individuals acting of their own accord.

They were willing to go door to door and talk to people about this issue, which would be ADMIRED if they had been doing so for any other political organization.

And even if they were the deciding factor in this (2% of Californians deciding the vote?? Seriously??), the overall effect was simply to reassert the clearly expressed will of the voters against an activist mayor and activist courts who overruled everything based on a majority of 1.

What's the problem, again?

[MasterfullyInept]

See comment above by abbeyroad

[SUIGENEROUSLA]

Civil rights are not open to being voted on --see the 14th ammendment of the US Constitution and Brown v Board of Ed

[bannorhill]

Same sex marriage is NOT a Constitutional right. Over 40 states have laws and/or Constitutional definitions of marriage similar to Prop 8. They have been appealed to the US Supreme Court. In every case the Supreme Court has refused to overturn the lower court rulings that such laws are unconstitutional. Until the US Supreme court makes a ruling on same sex "marriage" similar to Brown v Board of Ed same sex "marriage" will not be a right.

[MourningDood]

Good thing this isn't a civil rights issue.

Never was, never will be.

[AllanF]

Are you a Mormon?

[YellowDogInRedCounty]

One too many "M's"

[YellowDogInRedCounty]

That is a lie. They most certainly DID use church facilities and church money.

How can you even think of using the word "ADMIRED" when it comes to removing equal rights from a specific group of people?

The problem "again", is that this church that enjoys tax-exempt status used their funds to sway an election and furthermore took action that denied rights from a specific, identifiable group of law-abiding, tax-paying citizens.

Shame on you . Shame on all of you.

[MourningDood]

Wrong. The millions of dollars put into the pro-8 campaign came from individuals, not from the church. That money wasn't tax exempt, any more than the millions that poured into anti-8 from out of state was. You have a fundamentally flawed understanding of the issue at hand.

[Retrofuturistic]

As usual, "religion poisons everything". A "real" god would be for everyone, not just for whites, males, and heterosexuals.

The FLDS, for example, an extreme form of Mormonism, shows what mainstream religion is like, brought to its logical conclusion. The goals of the FLDS patrirchs are the same as the goals of other religious patriarchs, whether it is James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, the Pope, or the Taliban---- power, profit, and control of sex. The bottom line (no pun intended) of ALL religion is control. BY men. OVER women and children. Over another race. Over another country.

Religion supports the state and the patriarchy. It justifies whatever the people in power want to do by saying that God wants what they want. It leads to fascism and theocracy.

It was probably designed so that, by controlling women, men could tell if their children were really their biological children. But now we have DNA testing, so we don't NEED it. Can't we just throw the whole thing out the window and make all the people in the world happier and more mentally healthy?

[dortmunder]

True true. To take it a step further, the Catholic church has benefited greatly over the centuries by banning marriage by priests. Think of it, if a priest or bishop (or some other clown in a funny hat) who also happened to be a landowner (as many were) had children he would most certainly be tempted to bequeath his estate unto them and not the church. They eliminated this problem by banning marriage in the priesthood. No marriage no children, no problem. Everything goes to the richest, most well-organized mafia clan in history.

[Poboy]

I'm glad you mentioned the Catholic Church.

Many people wonder why or how Columbus could discover America, given the already settled native populations.

Columbus got the authority to "discover" the new world from the Catholic Church, namely the Papal Bull of 1493.

http://www.manataka.org/page155.html

[pupbayer]

Most sources site the African American vote as the group that passed Prop 8. Why are so many AA's against gay marriage? I know Obama is but why are so many others? You would think that a group that has been so discriminated against historically would be the last to discriminate another group but evidently that is not so. Why?

[loria]

Most sources don't site African Americans as the group resonsible for the passage fo the amendment. Why don't you stop furthering this racist comment and read some of the articles which dispute this?

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/prop-8-myths.html

[KevinVT]

Don't buy the right's race-baiting koolaid!

[MourningDood]

Exactly. The gay agenda can't go anywhere if they attack blacks and minorities. But hey, Mormons are fair game because there is already a societal prejudice against them.

Gays don't want to try to take on a group capable of asserting their rights, they want to create a scapegoat that is less likely to be stood up for, and less likely to respond in kind with violence, hate, or other extreme actions.

[HHarvey]

Pupbayer, your the biggest conservative blogger on here. You're not fooling anybody.

[boogiewoman]

The Mormon Church didn't let blacks into the church until 1979.

[ramper]

There were black members with the early pioneers and Brigham Young. Blacks did not hold the priesthood until 1979. To have any understanding of that you may get more insight by talking to a black member today. It is not a defense of the issue but one gets more perspective by having real knowledge.f

[typhoon1999]

There were black members in 1832 and Elijah Abel was ordained into a high position of the priesthood in 1836. Joseph Smith ran for president and wanted to grant equal rights to black people in 1844. He wanted to sell federal land for money to free the slaves and educate them.

Some facts don't fit nicely with the gay rights narrative/ hipocrisy the last few days; probably why you'll lose supporters.