Pelosi Pledges Aid To Automakers, Strings Attached

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KEN THOMAS | November 15, 2008 05:44 PM EST | AP

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Chevrolet salesman Philip Jordan, center, assists Charlotte Olson, right, who's looking to buy a car for her 18-year-old daughter, Kari Olson, left, Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2008, in downtown Los Angeles. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson called autos a "critical industry" Wednesday but said a $700 billion financial rescue program wasn't designed for them. The White House was noncommital, but said it was open to new ideas. (AP Photo/Ric Francis)

WASHINGTON — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Saturday the House would provide aid to the ailing U.S. auto industry, requiring that the industry meet new fuel-efficiency standards, produce advanced vehicles and restructure "to ensure their long-term economic viability."

Pelosi, D-Calif., did not disclose the amount of funding House leaders intend to seek for the industry _ automakers have been seeking $25 billion in loans to stabilize their sinking companies. But she said the funding should come from the $700 billion financial bailout approved by Congress in October.

"A restructured, competitive American automobile industry will continue to play a crucial role in our national economy and in the global marketplace," Pelosi said in a statement.

The move sets up a conflict with the White House, which has opposed using the bailout funds to help General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC. The Detroit companies have been battered by an economic meltdown that has choked their sales and frozen credit.

U.S. automakers are lobbying lawmakers furiously for an emergency infusion of cash. GM has warned it might not survive through year's end without a government lifeline.

President-elect Barack Obama said he believes that aid is needed but that it should be provided as part of a long-term plan for a "sustainable U.S. auto industry" _ not simply as a blank check.

"For the auto industry to completely collapse would be a disaster in this kind of environment," Obama said in an interview with CBS's "60 Minutes" that will air Sunday. "So my hope is that over the course of the next week, between the White House and Congress, the discussions are shaped around providing assistance but making sure that that assistance is conditioned on labor, management, suppliers, lenders, all of the stakeholders coming together with a plan _ what does a sustainable U.S. auto industry look like?"

Pelosi said the plan would call for "immediate, targeted assistance" and must include several principles, including the restructuring of the companies "to ensure their long-term economic viability," new fuel-efficiency standards, and the development of advanced vehicles.

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She said it would include "even stronger limits on executive compensation and assurances to protect the taxpayer." House aides said the legislation was still being developed and a specific funding level had not yet been reached.

Pelosi did not mention any plans for the UAW to make any concessions as part of the legislation. UAW president Ron Gettelfinger told reporters earlier Saturday the problem is not the union's contract with the auto companies.

"The focus has to be on the economy as a whole as opposed to a UAW contract," Gettelfinger said. The union has said it made several concessions in its 2007 labor agreement, setting lower pay for new hires and placing retiree health care liability into a trust run by the UAW.

Facing an uphill battle in Congress and stiff opposition from President George W. Bush, supporters of the government bailout have considered reducing its $25 billion size. A House aide said Saturday that $25 billion was still the amount being discussed.

"There's a need for immediate action," Alan Reuther, the United Auto Workers union's legislative director, said Friday. He said one option under consideration was a smaller, more targeted amount of funding "that would get the companies through to March."

Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich., said negotiations were taking place among senators on what the amount should be. "This is about getting enough votes to be able to solve the problem," she said.

Other auto suppliers and dealers with showrooms empty of customers plan to join the effort Monday when Congress returns following the Nov. 4 elections. The key Senate vote on preventing opponents from blocking the package could occur as early as Wednesday.

Democrats want to carve a portion of the $700 billion that the Bush administration is using to bail out banks, insurance companies and other financial institutions. The White House on Friday came out firmly against the approach.

White House press secretary Dana Perino said the administration would rather Congress expedite the release of a separate $25 billion loan program for the development of fuel-efficient vehicles and have the loans used for more urgent purposes as the companies struggle to stay afloat.

"Democrats are choosing a path that would only lead to partisan gridlock," Perino said.

Pelosi said Saturday that any attempt to divert money from the loan program would be a "step backward in assuring the viability and competitiveness of the U.S. auto industry."

Environmentalists and Pelosi have vehemently opposed using that money for anything other than designing and building vehicles that get higher gas mileage and produce less pollution. Democrats hold a 37-seat majority in the House and bailout supporters foresee little difficulty winning its passage there.

But the measure needs 60 votes to survive in the Senate, where Democrats will hold a razor-thin 50-49 majority when President-elect Barack Obama gives up his seat on Monday. A furious search was on for a dozen Republicans to break the anticipated filibuster from opponents.

Several Republicans have already lined up against it. "Like most Americans who are concerned about the direction of our economy and more federal spending, I must also ask _ when is enough, enough?" said Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas.

Two Republicans _ Kit Bond of Missouri and George Voinovich of Ohio _ said they will back the plan. Several other Republican senators have signaled they might accept a rescue if strict conditions are put on Detroit's Big Three companies, including management and salary changes, union concessions and a commitment to making more fuel-efficient vehicles.

Bond, whose home state of Missouri has several auto plants, said the concept of government mixing with the free market was "very troublesome." But he added, "We have to act in unique times of crisis when tens of thousands of Missouri workers are in danger of losing their jobs."

Democrats are modeling their bill on the bailout terms that the Bush administration has used for doling out $290 billion to banks and insurance companies. The government would get an ownership stake in the auto companies in exchange for the loans to ensure that taxpayers would get their money back if they return to profitability.

WASHINGTON — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Saturday the House would provide aid to the ailing U.S. auto industry, requiring that the industry meet new fuel-efficiency standards, produce advanc...
WASHINGTON — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Saturday the House would provide aid to the ailing U.S. auto industry, requiring that the industry meet new fuel-efficiency standards, produce advanc...
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- Rasaria I'm a Fan of Rasaria 4 fans permalink

Where is Moveon in this? There is no upside for the Democrats by supporting this and Nancy Pelosi will go down in history as one of the worst Speakers ever if she persists in this folly. $25 Billion would go along way to providing aid to families who were laid off if one of these companies goes under. Why are we not looking at that as a real option? I just cannot fathom why we are supporting complete ineptitude at the expense of the people who need help most. Why can't Nancy find a Silicon Valley entrepreneur who knows a lot a bout alternative energy and running a lean, mean company to take over this mess? Oh right, she has never held a private sector job and doesn't get it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:13 AM on 11/16/2008
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So our government should either allow American automakers to collapse completely so that we will be totally dependent on foreign manufacturers for transportation OR the government should go into the business of dictating who should run a company?!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:42 AM on 11/16/2008
- Nickesq I'm a Fan of Nickesq 8 fans permalink

Yes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 AM on 11/16/2008
- TheImpaler I'm a Fan of TheImpaler 13 fans permalink
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It is really hard to say where you stand on the issue by the way you structured your reply. However, if you are implying that there is something insidious in being dependent on foreign manufacturers you are off base. I do not think that it matters whether plant producing automobiles is owned by Germans, Japanese or Koreans. The bottom line is that the cars are made here. Also, the issue of ownership is tricky one; who knows who owns anything this days, who controls majority of the stock?

Seems to me that we would be better off if our government decided to spend the money on buying controlling interest in successful manufacturers producing here than purring the money down the drain by trying to save inefficient ones.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:41 AM on 11/16/2008
- TheImpaler I'm a Fan of TheImpaler 13 fans permalink
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“Where is Moveon on this?” That is excellent question. Perhaps we need new Moveon? My guess is that there is as much consensus on this issue within Moveon as there is in this forum. There appears to be a need for a new voice, new single issue advocacy group, perhaps it is time to start something new?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:10 AM on 11/16/2008
- bikerdude I'm a Fan of bikerdude 75 fans permalink
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Come on, you can hardly swing a dead cat around without hittig some new single issue advocacy group.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:16 AM on 11/16/2008
- JJeff88 I'm a Fan of JJeff88 23 fans permalink

Needs to be done, but frought with danger.

Overriding philosopy should be: (a) no blanket outlays of cash to the Big 3 (who are likely to just spend it on the wrong stuff anyway, (b) target outlays as investments in specific programs (i.e. mileage efficiency, retooling for electric or natural gas etc.) that have a definite 5, 10, 15 year payout plan and (c) insist that any every investment-outlay request be accompanied by impact statements concerning jobs, environmental footprints etc.

One way around the "bail-out" push-back would be to repackage this as a "Conservation/Green Energy" program with every dollar targeted toward a specific related outcome (while simultaneously letting Detroit reallocate existing monies - currently directed toward these ends - back toward jobs, liquidity, credit, operations etc.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:05 AM on 11/16/2008
- Nickesq I'm a Fan of Nickesq 8 fans permalink

This is a great idea. It creates a new metric for measurement beyond quarterly profits, which is essential if automakers are going to change their way of doing business. Fresh management is still necessary to make the change.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 AM on 11/16/2008
- starlady7 I'm a Fan of starlady7 29 fans permalink

Totally agree, but add that they need also to find a way to convert existing cars and trucks to increase mileage cleanly...could be alot of money in this and also save individuals from having to purchase a new vehicle during this financial crisis when money is so tight! Definitely to be done as a "CONSERVATION/GREEN ENERGY' Program!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 AM on 11/16/2008

San Francisco had the chance to vote for real change when Cindy Sheehan ran against Pelosi, but no, San Francisco loves having a war criminal and corporate sell out to represent them.
Americans keep sending the same bunch of do nothing scum-bags back to Washington year after year and think things will change. The Congress has a lower approval rating than that alcoholic, drug abusing war time deserter and war criminal george bush , and you wonder why America is in such a pickle, and a kosher one at that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:00 AM on 11/16/2008
- HHarvey I'm a Fan of HHarvey 30 fans permalink
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Oh , if there was anyone inexperience to work in a government position it was sheehan, spare me. Thank god San Franciscans were smart enough, and by the way I don't like Pelosi either but they needed a better person to run against her. I like Jackie Spier and wish she could take her place.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 AM on 11/16/2008
- Nickesq I'm a Fan of Nickesq 8 fans permalink

I, too, would have voted Pelosi out with a viable alternative. It is just too hard to run against incumbents with the current electoral system and the money from lobbyists and special interest groups that floods the system.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 AM on 11/16/2008
- dphilip I'm a Fan of dphilip 41 fans permalink

Strings attached from the democrats?? I'm sure that it's more like a "trip wire".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 AM on 11/16/2008
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As in a booby trap? That should be the case. Government bailout of an industry should be something feared by that industry. They should feel like they are tiptoeing through a mine field.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:44 AM on 11/16/2008
- Tropiholic I'm a Fan of Tropiholic 20 fans permalink

How about bailing out the millions of honest hardworking Americans who haver lost their jobs, their homes and their life savings??? This is an OUTRAGE!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 AM on 11/16/2008
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$1,000,000,000,000

306 M people = $3268 each

220 M adults = $4545 each

economic stimulus you can believe in !!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 AM on 11/16/2008

Impressive numbers. You are right. It's looks like doom time for every INDIVIDUAL. I

The US economy as a WHOLE, despite its current economic woes, is largely solvent. We have a large tax base both business, private individuals, rich and middle income. Our economy is drawing at least $15-16 TRILLION per year for the last 16-17 years. In that sense, $700 billion bail out is not the end of our economy. FAR FROM IT. We also can borrow on our own currency, and that is a huge advantage.

I have mixed feelings of the bail out. I favor it because of the 100 of thousands direct/indirect employees that would be lost if we let them fail. The Big 3 are operating in a world market and failure will be viewed as weakness and a huge black eye for USA's image. But I favor Ackerman's posit of packaged bankruptcy. GM/Chrysler/Ford are essentially bankrupt anyway, packaged bankruptcy may be the right answer, to wipe out their debts. They are worth $2-3 billions, VERY CHEAP, but even Buffet will pass. Package Bankruptcy will let them RE-organize, structure, negotiate wage and Union Contracts. Their combined debt is unsustainable, a $25B or 50B will not save them. So why put more monies for a leveraged capital ?

I don't speak with authority, 'am just a concerned 28-year-old with mortgage, student loan and a car note. I don't expect to be bailed out. At least not just yet.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 AM on 11/16/2008

It's not that simple. If the auto industry goes down and takes 30 million jobs with it the government then has to pick up the tab of unemployment and pension benefits.

Couple this with the fact that many extra unemployed people without the education necessary to succeed in many employment opportunities and you have the perfect recipe for disaster.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:01 AM on 11/16/2008
- Nova16 I'm a Fan of Nova16 34 fans permalink

I believe a bailout is in order according to the conditions stipulated by some excellent comments provided in this thread. If this nation can squander $600 bilion to fund a phony war in Iraq, it has to be willing to save as much of this deteriorating economy it can in order to restructure the economy. The reason we were able to escape from the Great Depression is that our factory system was still in tact even though the finacial system was in failure. If we totally destroy our manufacturing base we have nothing left to help with a recovery.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 AM on 11/16/2008
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End the war, stop being the Santa Claus of the petroleum industry and overhaul the tax code. That should cover the bill!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 AM on 11/16/2008
- MossyOak I'm a Fan of MossyOak 62 fans permalink
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This economic crisis is the perfect opportunity to elicit change, not just in the automakers but in the public's mind as well. We have to face the fact that Americans wanted those huge, gas guzzling SUVs by the millions, so Detroit cranked them out. It's not Detroit's fault, it's ours. Now is the perfect oppoortunity to reset the mindset that green is cool.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 AM on 11/16/2008
- scooperss I'm a Fan of scooperss 75 fans permalink
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Maybe you wanted a gas guzzler but one criteria of mine when it comes to vehicles is gas mileage.

Infuriates me to see one person riding around in a hummer. SUV, or super sized pickup truck. Sure maybe they can afford the gas but they're just making it harder for everyone else.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:37 AM on 11/16/2008
- dphilip I'm a Fan of dphilip 41 fans permalink

Hey, you talk just the way that Rush says that liberals talk...That's funny isn't it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 AM on 11/16/2008
- swanie I'm a Fan of swanie 39 fans permalink
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The costs that NEED TO BE INCURRED to save Detroit:

1 - Fire everybody above the grade of vice president (e.g., senior VP, exec VP, etc., and any and all Presidents, CEOs, and ALL THE BOARD MEMBERS OF ALL THE COMPANIES! They have proven their incompetence ! ! !

2 - Sell Chrysler - it is an absolute loser and will not survive.

3 - Downsize Ford. Sell everything except the Ford and Lincoln car lines. Eliminate ALL vehicles that weigh over 6,000 pounds, including SUVs, trucks, and any other vehicles that exceed the limit.

3 -Downsize GM. Sell or simply close Hummer. Sell Pontiac and Buick. Keep ONLY Chevrolet and Cadillac. Eliminate ALL vehicles that weigh over 6,000 pounds, including SUVs, trucks, and any other vehicles that exceed the limit.

4 - Both Ford and GM DECLARE bankruptcy. Re-negotiate ALL CONTRACTS AND ANY BENEFITS FOR ANY PERSON WORKING AT OR SUPPORTING THE "NEW" company AT LOWER RATES AND VALUES. This applies to ALL employees, ALL contractors, ALL subcontractors, and anybody else who has dealings with the "NEW" companies.

IF THE COMPANIES WON'T AGREE, THEY GET NO - REPEAT NO - FEDERAL SUPPORT OR FUNDS.

.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 AM on 11/16/2008
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People use trucks for work, genius. Like farmers. People that plow snow during winter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 AM on 11/16/2008

Hi Swanie

Your ideas certainly have merit.

Merely stopping production of vehicles over 6000 GVW does a terrible disservice to those of us who depend on such vehicles for everything from public safety ( fire trucks, ambulances, utility trucks ) to the transportation and service industries. T. Boone Pickens said this morning that the solution was to get these vehicles off diesel fuel and on to natural gas.

I live in Florida and there are NO places where you can get CNG to run these vehicles if Detroit would even build them.

Simply stopping the construction of medium duty vehicles will not solve the problem in and of itself.

Promotion of domestic, more environmentally friendly fuels will make the rest of what has to happen much more likely.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:57 AM on 11/16/2008
- swanie I'm a Fan of swanie 39 fans permalink
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SOMEBODY better tell the American people EXACTLY WHAT THE BIG 3 HAVE TO DO TO GET THE MONEY.

Some questions:

- Are any senior management being fired? Why not? They are obviously not qualified.

- Are the unions required to renegotiate their contracts? Why not?

- Are the Big 3 required to get rid of gas guzzlers (SUVs, trucks, Hummer, etc.,)? Why not?

- Are the Big 3 required to pay back the LOAN with interest? Why not?

- Remember less than 30% of the cars are now made by Detroit. Their failure would be an impact, but look at many other companies who have gone under, and after the pain, we move on and improve.

This bailout is idiocy and political pandering at its worst ! ! ! !
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 11/16/2008
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Your questions are definitely valid. Heads should roll and should have already. People don't bash automakers enough for the roads being overrun with oversized vehicles. Automakers created the demand for them by lauding them as safer and loading them with features consumers can't resist instead of focusing those marketing and R&D dollars on more energy efficient vehicles.

Requiring unions to renegotiate their contracts is going to be like lighting a stink bomb. The unions will be fearful that their role in acquiring benefits and rights for autoworkers will be diminished, which will threaten their earnings. There is no question benefits, and possibly wages, would be cut for the sake of keeping the automakers afloat.

Should they be required to pay it back? To quote Sarah Palin, "You betchya!"

I agree that bailouts suck, but when it's your nation's entire auto industry at risk, what else can you do? Bankruptcy is not really a viable option because of the economic damage it will do to other businesses. Bankruptcy would also create another bailout scenario since the automakers would likely try to shed their burden for pensions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 AM on 11/16/2008
- starlady7 I'm a Fan of starlady7 29 fans permalink

The unions have been cutting pay and benefits since negotiations in 2007.

We need to do this!
Too much is at stake! Millions of jobs! The auto industry can first go to Natural Gas vehicles as a transition during the retooling for more hybrid, electric, flex fuel cars and trucks, etc. Recall all the unsold cars and trucks and convert them!

As for having natural gas available...the Natural Gas companies can use the existing Filling stations...figuring a way to use gas pumps or add new ones!

We can take this opportunity to force the Big 3 to immediately start on GREEN Energy autos...something that might have taken longer if they did not need a bailout! Definitely have strings attached and penalty clauses...accountability and repayment plan!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 PM on 11/16/2008

Of course, let's not blame the American consumer, who for so long has thought it a status symbol to be driving around in a gas guzzling SUV. They make gas guzzlers because people want to buy them. It's like Big Macs at McDonald's - it's not the customers complaining.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:22 AM on 11/16/2008
- SShaw490 I'm a Fan of SShaw490 38 fans permalink

Every decade or so, we have a big gas price spike and all Americans wail about the Big 3 building all those trucks and SUVs. And following every gas price spike, gas prices go back down and Americans go out by the thousands and buy a new truck or SUV. That's just how we do it in the good ol' USA - we whine and gripe about behavior and then we go out and reinforce that behavior. And when the behavior starts having permanently damaging side effects, we blame the ones that we encouraged to do bad things in the first place.

That's called "the free market."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 AM on 11/16/2008

They had a choice when they bought that SUV and most people with brains had a choice when they bought the Toyota Prius.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:03 AM on 11/16/2008
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True, consumers bear some of the burden here. People can be very lemming-like in that regard.

Just imagine, though, if automakers had put R&D and marketing dollars into greener vehicles that were safer and more economical than those behemoths on the road now. The U.S. might have produced a hybrid vehicle that would have been less expensive than the imports.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 AM on 11/16/2008
- helonias I'm a Fan of helonias 263 fans permalink
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Why are the big 3 still advertising big pickups?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 AM on 11/16/2008
- scooperss I'm a Fan of scooperss 75 fans permalink
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Better question is why are people still buying them. Every time I get near a dealership I see someone test driving a BIG truck.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:38 AM on 11/16/2008
- TheImpaler I'm a Fan of TheImpaler 13 fans permalink
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people have short memories; $4puls/gallon was such a long time ago, in a galaxy far away?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:08 AM on 11/16/2008

This will be extremely bad for the country. Oddly, the more strings attached, the worse. But again this situation lends itself for the application of core liberal policies of subsidizing poorly run money loosing companies and increasing politicians power.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 AM on 11/16/2008
- Invox I'm a Fan of Invox 10 fans permalink
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For the life of me, I can't understand the lack of insight into why we have the application of core liberal policies right now. I think conservatives and liberals alike can appreciate the importance of self-reliance, rugged individualism, private sector innovation and all those indicators of a free capitalistic economy. Whether you know it or not, we agree on that. However, when the conservative side refuses or resists reasonable regulation, sends the profits to the top and ignores the importance of the middle class, they're asking for core liberal policies. It's what happened during the Great Depression and it's what's happening now. Shear greed, crime and incompetence have gotten us to this point under a long period of laissez-faire on business. There is no choice but to implement liberal policies.

I get very irritable listening to conservatives who f@*k up the economy and then complain about liberal policies. You asked for it, didn't you? Right now, it takes government intervention, whether you like it or not.

Grow up. You messed it up and you'll never acknowledge that you messed it up. So get out of the way so others can fix it. Go shopping or something. You guys are the ones with the money.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:38 AM on 11/16/2008

It will work just like all the other wonderful politician run projects, military spending, the war on poverty, inner city schools, the wonderful exploding space shuttles, etc. BTW the USA hasn't had a highly regulated economy for the last 75 years. Why do liberals want to socialize the losses, let failing companies go into bankruptcy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:24 AM on 11/16/2008
- starlady7 I'm a Fan of starlady7 29 fans permalink

EXCELLENT POST! Your remarks are totally on the mark!!!!

To conservatives: GET OUT OF THE WAY BEFORE YOU BURY OUR COUNTRY WITH YOUR ASSININE ECONOMIC PHILOSOPHY!!!!

Without laws we would have anarchy. Without some reasonable regulations we would have unfettered GREED, FRAUD, UNBALANCED WEALTH DISTRIBUTION, ECONOMIC DISASTER...Oh, wait we have the results of that now, don't we!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:38 PM on 11/16/2008
- mcantwell I'm a Fan of mcantwell 553 fans permalink
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So what are our choices?
1) We bail them out....the taxpayers pay for it.
2) They file bankruptcy...the taxpayers pay for it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:50 AM on 11/16/2008
- norkas I'm a Fan of norkas 28 fans permalink

I would tell them and the unions we let GM go bankkrupt unless the ceo and others who were lagging behind on purpose to produce electric autos and other efficient cars to compete with the other 30 new companies that have great green autos on the road or will in 2009.

If anyone googles these new electric autos and hybryds they will get raving mad and will understand auto workers will be kept very busy producing good jobs that are not part of GM.

Who closed there eyes when one company put out a electric car that goes 235 miles on one charge? Did GM not know about the many autos that already were being produced? Sure they did but they were busy will the oil companies being promoted to produce gas guzzlers.

Let GM go Bankrupt and let some one take it over and bring great new autos that will be great for the planet and consumers pockets be produced. Never trust those that are heading GM just fire them .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 AM on 11/16/2008
- Okieborn I'm a Fan of Okieborn 71 fans permalink

EXACTLY !! The poor middle class after 8 yrs. of Bush and the Poor Poor are always stuck with the tab !!
The 700 billion which is already half spent will go down as another bill for my grand children and their children !!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:15 AM on 11/16/2008

With Global Warming on the way, your grand children will have other things to worry about than paying off this tab.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:06 AM on 11/16/2008

Difference is in a bankruptcy huge changes will be forced on them. So, they may get better.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 AM on 11/16/2008

I guess the stimulus checks will be hold for awhile.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:44 AM on 11/16/2008
- bluguy8 I'm a Fan of bluguy8 25 fans permalink

befofre any bailout we must see what their going to be making - if its they same crap...no deal

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:43 AM on 11/16/2008
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