Analysis: After Bush, Some Israelis Looking For Tough Love From Obama

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STEVEN GUTKIN | November 16, 2008 01:06 PM EST | AP

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JERUSALEM — Each time a new U.S. president is elected, the question that leaps to Israeli minds is, "is he good for the Jews?"

With Barack Obama's victory, however, what's good for the 5.5 million Jews of Israel has become a matter of debate.

Eight years of unflinching support from President George W. Bush has yielded no peace. So while most Israelis appreciated Bush's backing, others wonder if a tougher approach _ maybe even some arm twisting here and there _ might not have been better.

Their fear stems from the demographic threat posed by Israel's occupation of Arab lands, as the size of the Arab population approaches the Jewish one and endangers Israel's existence as a Jewish and democratic state. A true friend of Israel is an American leader who will work not only to protect Israel from external enemies, but to disentangle itself from the 41-year-occupation _ or so the argument goes.

For Obama, that could mean abandoning what many see as a policy of blanket support in favor of some muscular diplomacy, such as pressuring Israel to stop expanding settlements on land Palestinians claim for a future state.

"We should hope Obama will help Israel help itself, because that is how true friendship is measured. That he will criticize its policy when he must, because that, too, is a test of true friendship," wrote Israeli journalist Gideon Levy in the Haaretz daily.

And in a commentary titled "Don't be afraid of the Jews," Haaretz's Akiva Eldar argued that Obama need not worry about losing U.S. Jewish support if he takes Israel to task.

"The concept 'friend of Israel,' which had become a synonym for supporters of perpetuating the occupation, has begun to take on new meaning," he wrote.

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Israeli peace activist Dror Etkes thinks Israel needs tough love from Obama, but only if it's done wholeheartedly and evenhandedly.

"If you're not serious about pressuring the two sides, don't do it, don't start," he said in an interview. "Because you end up bringing more and more people to the conclusion that this conflict is unsolvable."

The Bush administration largely turned a blind eye to Israeli practices that conflict with U.S. positions, such as demolishing homes and expanding Jewish settlements in the West Bank.

Obama, say the doves, could begin by pressuring Israel to stop building up its existing settlements, and dismantle new ones built by nationalist hard-liners without its approval.

To others, the idea of pressuring Israel at all is anathema.

Nationalist lawmaker Arieh Eldad said that if the West Bank became a Palestinian state, Hamas militants would end up taking it over as they did Gaza after Israel withdrew from there three years ago.

It's not Obama would who would pay for creating a Palestinian state, he said. "We will pay. Our children will pay."

Dore Gold, a former Israeli ambassador to the United Nations, said Israelis don't need "outside actors to impose a solution on them."

"My instinct is to trust the democratic judgment of the people of Israel," he said.

That judgment will be delivered Feb. 10, in Israel's general election.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has been sounding alarm bells about the threat Israel faces unless it gives up the West Bank and signs peace with the Palestinians. But he is stepping down in a few weeks. Tzipi Livni, the candidate to succeed him, says she won't be bound by Olmert's prescriptions. Her main opponent, the hawkish Benjamin Netanyahu, indicates he's in no hurry to discuss yielding any land.

Obama already has a starring role in the campaign. Netanyahu claims a personal chemistry with the president-elect, apparently hoping it will win centrist votes. The more dovish Livni is warning Obama not to talk to Iran, a stance which may raise her stock with conservatives.

Israelis were initially apprehensive about Obama's Muslim-sounding middle name, his stated willingness to talk to Iran and the presence of what they saw as pro-Palestinian political advisers in his camp.

Many were soothed by the choice of the staunchly pro-Israel Joe Biden as Obama's running mate, and Obama's emotional visit to Israel, though up to election day, Israel was one of the few countries where polls showed a sizeable preference for McCain.

Obama's choice of Rahm Emanuel for chief of staff was a "very strong comforting factor," said Danny Ayalon, a former Israeli ambassador to Washington.

Emanuel is a deeply committed Jew whose Israeli father was a member of Irgun, Israel's pre-state right-wing underground. During the first Gulf war, Emanuel came here as a volunteer worker in the maintenance of Israeli military vehicles.

At the same time, the Hebrew-speaking Emanuel could give Washington an insider's view of Israel. If Obama chooses to put pressure on Israel, Emanuel's presence at the top could help fireproof the new president against allegations he is acting against Israel's interests.

U.S. presidents have a stake in nurturing deep-rooted ties with Israel, said Aaron David Miller, a former adviser to both Republican and Democratic secretaries of state.

But neither country should want a relationship "where we defer to the Israelis in terms of our own tactics and strategies, where we don't have honest conversations with them about things they do that we don't like," he said.

The Americans who achieved the most in the region, Miller said, were Henry Kissinger, Jimmy Carter and James Baker, and they were all willing "to be tough with both Arabs and Israelis."

__

Editor's Note: Steven Gutkin is AP's bureau chief for Israel and the Palestinian territories. AP writer Ian Deitch contributed to this report.

JERUSALEM — Each time a new U.S. president is elected, the question that leaps to Israeli minds is, "is he good for the Jews?" With Barack Obama's victory, however, what's good for the 5.5 mill...
JERUSALEM — Each time a new U.S. president is elected, the question that leaps to Israeli minds is, "is he good for the Jews?" With Barack Obama's victory, however, what's good for the 5.5 mill...
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Well, love him or hate him, the time is coming near to say goodbye to George W. Bush. I would like to extend an invitation to anyone who has something to say to this President to post an open letter to GW at http://goodbye.us . This is a project to essentially create a time capsule of feelings and thoughts about the outgoing administration. So please, check it out and share!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 PM on 11/19/2008
- leeman79 I'm a Fan of leeman79 6 fans permalink

We need to rationalize our support for Israel. It shouldn't be blind support based on a biblical connection. We need to adopt compromise based support again. Your level of support will be determined by your willingness to compromise.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 AM on 11/18/2008

Israel has been the only US ally in the MIddle East. This was true before Israel ever existed. It is still true. Other Middle Eastern countires recieve billions and billions of foerign aid from US. yet they consistently vote against US in the United Nations on ALL issues, not just Israel.
Name ONE positive thing that Egypt does for its $2 billion yearly? It is a still a pi$$ poor and backward country that reguarly opresses its citizens and reguarly promotes Anti-American propaganda in its government controlled media.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:52 PM on 11/19/2008

I also did a little research I've discovered to my amazement that Egypt and Jordan grabbed and occupied Gaza, West Bank and Jerusalem for 20 YEARS and did NOTHING for Palestinians.
Unless you count Jordanian annexation of West Bank as progress in Palestinain self-determination.
You never read about this astonishing nugget of history, do ya?

Ironically, the ONLY reason we're talking about possible Palestinian state is because Israel kicked out Jordanian and Egyptians and interrupted their annexation! How's that for irony. In hindsight Isarelis should've left W. Bank and Gaza to Egyptian and Jordanian tender mercies. It'd be REAL peaceful there now.
Palestinians get nothig but lip services and some hand-outs from brotha Arabs. You'd think that may be Egypt would offer Gazans some extra land in the vast Sinai dessert so they can stretch a bit. Not a chance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:39 PM on 11/17/2008
- rroy I'm a Fan of rroy 8 fans permalink

One day,,I decided to do a little reading and research in an attemp to find out just what the hell this "Arab and Palestine Vs Isreal and Zionism"conflict is all about because it was becomming more and more apparant the American Press and political system was not telling the whole story.In fact they were telling an extremely one sided story devoid of many facts and reallity.
The opinions I formed became strongly reenforced when Walt and Meirshimer published their thesis about AIPAC.
I voted for Mr.Obama,based in large part on these conclusions,only to be sorely disapointed by his appointment of an AIPAC Hawk ,Mr.Emanual,as his chief of staff.
I am somewhat re encouraged from learning "tough love"is expected from Obama by many -for want of a better word-Liberal Israelis.
I will be more encouraged if and when I see Israeli Hawks curtailed and much much more compassion shown for Palestinians and other Arab neighbors.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:03 AM on 11/17/2008
- who38 I'm a Fan of who38 72 fans permalink

Bibi is almost certain to win the upcoming Israeli election. Not a good sign.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:45 AM on 11/17/2008

Israel has a war with Egypt where many lives are lost and afterwards there was a peace and land was returned.

Israel has a war with Jordan and after many were killed there was peace and land returned.

I am sick of hearing that Israel is the bad guy and those that are speaking about have never spent time there.

I said before when the U.S is under rocket attack or Russia what would they do?

I believe there will not be peace until a war erupts as with others and many lives are lost. Then sadly there will be peace.

I was in Israel when many in Israel tried to bring peace and many had palestinians friends All of this was destroyed by Yassar who never wanted peace because of greed and stealing he did.

Many new settlements have been build in the several years and almost everyone of them will be destroyed and returned to the Palestinians and that will be no problem if Hamas truly wants peace.

Please do not forget Hamas called for the total destruction of Israel and only recently toned down there ideas.

For those that think they can read a simple post just go there spend some time in Israel and perhaps you will see Israel will make peace but the other side has to be willing.

For those who always hated Israel or speak from no experience i suggest you go there and get a better idea.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:31 AM on 11/17/2008
- SoD1 I'm a Fan of SoD1 9 fans permalink

Hmm.. How fascinating. And so it continues. The outcome of Israeli's election, it seems as it is to be expected, will be the deciding factor where U.S. foreign politics of the future will be heading, it might even be the deciding factor of World Peace or World War.
It will show, if the Jewish People have awaken to realize that made in US. “Judea-Christian” fanaticism follows its own agenda and could turn against them. The election will show, as is the case of the U.S election - if the intelligent ones rule over the dumb ones or if it is in fact the opposite, if things have changed in the last 60 years or not and if homo sapiens sapiens truly has culturally as intellectually evolved at all in the last 2000 years or if we will continue fighting religious-motivated greedy 'land-gewinnungs' wars. It will also show if we will continue to allow a group of People, a nation, making itself totally and absolute, untouchable.
Or if that Nation is truly able to give a bit of this infinite “godly” might up for the better good.
Interesting times we are living in, indeed.
Shalom
SoD1

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 11/17/2008
- chaos4700 I'm a Fan of chaos4700 85 fans permalink
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On the other hand, it's also unfair to shovel all of the blame on Palestinians. "Almost every one [of the illegal settlements] will be destroyed"? What makes you so sure the Israeli government would agree to that? Especially with how much money they are throwing into that so-called border wall that cuts Palestinian territories and, rather conveniently, puts arable land and water supplies on the Israeli side of the wall?

I've been friends with Israelis. While I know there are exceptions -- heck, for all I know, the nice ones might be a silent majority -- but the Israelis I knew were deeply self-centered and intensely racist. I tried to give them the benefit of the doubt but when they started taking advantage of me, when I was their friend, I got the picture that non-Jews to them were forever going to be a lesser class of people. And for note, I'm a secular caucausian American so I didn't even get the worst of what they would throw at people. This has been my consistent experience over three seperate encounters with Israelis.

If you think Israelis are any friendlier toward Christians than Muslims, think again. As a matter of government policy, the Israeli border wall separates Christians from their places of worship with as much impunity as it does Muslims.

Maybe Israel was a nicer place when you visited there, but it's not what you remember it anymore.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 PM on 11/17/2008

One thing is for sure, America cannot blindly support every Israeli action and lay all blame with Palestinians, Israeli’s will soon be a minority group in the country if population trends hold. You cannot have a situation where a minority population holds the majority population at bay and living with a boot at the back of their neck….. I believe both parties have a right to exist there but Palestinians live under Israeli rule…. Imaging being ruled by your enemy and living in poverty while your at it… can you say hate and resentment… not a way to a solution.

America needs to do some arm twisting. Two separate states needed badly and honest leadership by and for the people of would be Palestine. Aiding Israel blindly has come with a huge financial and political price for the U.S.. I was going to type more but its such a huge mess….. where to start.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 AM on 11/17/2008

I cannot believe it is 2008 and this has not been solved. Sit everyone in a room and get them to agree that neither side is going to get all of their desires and structure concessions from there.

A) Israel move borders back to 1967 borders
B) Dismantle all illegal settlements
C) Create buffer between both factions out of rocket trajectory and everyone live separate and autonomous for 2 years as part of “phase 1” of structuring nation….. just a thought.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 AM on 11/17/2008
- devinkay I'm a Fan of devinkay 8 fans permalink
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It's the extremists on both sides that make peace impossible.

The Likud charter calls for the annexation and settlement of the entire Land of Israel, which comprises the current territory of the State of Israel, as well as the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights, and the whole of Jerusalem.

Hamas's charter calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic Republic in their historic homeland of Palestine and an end to Israel, and declares that the land of Palestine is an Islamic trust consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day, and as such cannot be negotiated away by any political leader.

As recently as 2008, Hamas head Khaled Mashal declared that Hamas would stop armed struggle against Israel if it recognized the 1967 borders, withdrew itself from all Palestinian occupied territories (including the West Bank and East Jerusalem) and recognized Palestinian rights that would include the "right of return."

Israel will never accept the Palestinian refugees right of return, as it would create a demographic majority of Muslims in Israel.

A compromise would seem to lie in Israel's return to its original pre-'67 borders and dissolution of its settlements and the Palestinians limiting their demand of the right of return to those relinquished areas. However, this proposal has been unsuccessfully tabled several times.

As long as both sides insist upon an all-or-nothing settlement there will be no peace.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:39 AM on 11/17/2008

Israel has made very bad decisions and because of many having massive egos the contry suffers because of very bad leadership.

Jerusalem belong to all religions what MORONS would ever trust the Palestinians as a honest gate keeper to the world religions. Now ask yourself have many religions travel to Jerusalem for spiritual visits and how often have the Palestinians closed there side off to others so they could not have access to very important holy sights?

YES Israel has proven to be a great gate keeper for the world religions to make there spiritual journeys to the most important holy sites in the world.

What would America, Russia, or any other normal country do when rockets or raining down on them from another country? For sure not what little response Israel did in return.

This is a joke and so are the leaders of Israel because they are truly ignorant and many of there own people and the world has to pay for it.

Politicians in Israel do not know how to tell there plight to the world or are just stupid and or corrupt.

Israel needs a smart leader to tell the truth and to deal with the Palestinians the same way as America or Russia under rocket attack .

Do not share Jerusalem with them they are not be trusted concerning the holy sites and will often close the gate to other religions that are on a holy quest.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 AM on 11/17/2008
- chaos4700 I'm a Fan of chaos4700 85 fans permalink
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Excuse me? Maybe Israel is magnanimous to its Christian friends from the US with regards to allowing visits to holy sites, but ask any Muslim what it's like to visit Jerusalem -- or specifically, ask any Arab.

And you think Palestinians are shooting rockets into Israel without provoking? I recommend you go read up a healthy variety of historical sources and find out just how the state of Israel was formed. Read up on the British Mandate and the "nakba" and on ethnic cleansing in general.

America, thank heavens and with the possible exception of Pearl Harbor, has not been under any sort of direct military attack in living memory. (9/11 was the product of organized crime, not military action) Your conjecture on what we /might/ do is rather irrelevant.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:55 AM on 11/17/2008

Your comment is mostly incorrect although it shows more comprehension of the problem than most other comments.
1-Extremists in Israel are a minority and in a democratic state they will have to accept the majority decision-Not the case with Pal's yet..
2- Likud charter specifics you mentionned not true. Sharon pull out from Gaza and Begin from Sinai..
3- There is no such thing as an historic homeland of Palestine. It never existed as such.
Mashaal declaration did not offer peace and Israel recognition for withdrawing. Just a Hudna for 15 years. It was anyway contested by Hamas leader in Gaza the day after.
4- The compromise you propose is the one being discussed between Olmert and Abbas for a year now and it is likely to be more or less the base for a final agreement..

Just to remind everybody here that Israel accepted already from 1947 the UN split of Palestine to two entities, Jew and Arab. As Israel accepted the creation of an Arab state, it was the Arabs wich didn't and still , for part of them, do not accept a Jewish state.

It is incredibly amusing to read most of the comments blaming Israel without any knowledge of the facts..

From my understanding there will be no peace before the Iranian problem and it's regime will be settled as they are the one who fuel extremists on the Arab side..let's wait and see

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:53 AM on 11/17/2008
- devinkay I'm a Fan of devinkay 8 fans permalink
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I suppose it's inappropriate to characterize the bulldozing of ancestral homes and orchards to erect a Berlin-style wall and the tit-for-tat lobbing of missiles against a civilian population as extremism. I'm sure the minority could do worse.

As to the particulars of the Likud charter, you may read it for yourself as knesset.gov.

The Jews were expelled from the Land of Israel in 623 by the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius, and it only has been their persistent re-immigration (Aliyah) over the centuries and the intervention of the League of Nations following WWI that has allowed them to continue their claim. This isn't to say their claim isn't valid but only that it's no more valid than the Palestinian claim. For both sides to insist their claim to the land is an unassailable divine right is at the root of the conflict and one for which I can imagine no solution, as religion and rationalism are the oil and water of philosophy.

I've been unable to locate Mashal's exact quote, but the reports I've read do say that he did offer the parameters I mentioned as Hamas's conditions for peace. I could be wrong there, but, like you, I consider it a reasonable starting point for negotiations.

With Olmert predicted to be replaced in July by Tzipi Livni, a moderate who has expressed willingness to recognize a Palestinian state, we can hope things are moving in the right direction. Honestly, I doubt it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 PM on 11/17/2008
- zaz33 I'm a Fan of zaz33 32 fans permalink

Well put devinkay - Too many are hung up on statements and policies of the past and new initiatives are ignored.

When ever the right of return is mentioned I'm reminded of what I believe is a historic missed opportunity. As I understand it when Israel joined the United Nations they agreed to reimburse Palestinians for land and property. I understand this has never been done. If the Palestinians had been reimbursed I have to believe most would have moved on to a new life.

You're right that concessions have to be made.

I consistantly state that demographics and settlements amount to a freight train moving towards a one state solution which most Israeli's are opposed to. This may be the time for peace.

Just do it!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:08 AM on 11/17/2008
- chaos4700 I'm a Fan of chaos4700 85 fans permalink
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I dare say it isn't that simple. Palestinian families had been living on that land for centuries at least, before European Jews drove them off. I've had conversations with Palestinians... their homeland isn't just some valuable piece of real estate, it's where their culture is from, it's where their ancestors lived and died, and its part of who they are.

That said, I think Israel has shown, in its constant and open defiance to almost all UN resolutions passed regarding it (and those are the ones that penetrate the US veto), among the first of which you've mentioned, goes a long way to show that Israel simply will not comply with any agreement that doesn't acquiesce to every one of their own demands.

Honestly? I think a single state solution that puts everyone on equal footing in the eyes of a national government is the only way to go at this point. Even if a Palestinian nation is acknowledged, Israel will still actively sabotage it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 AM on 11/17/2008
- devinkay I'm a Fan of devinkay 8 fans permalink
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Thank you, zaz33.

I have to imagine most Palestinians would take any offer of remuneration as an insult. There's something more at stake here than house and property. Think of it this way, would the U.S. sell Texas to Mexico?

Okay, bad example.

But you see my point? It's a little like when the government declares eminent domain over a family farm. It doesn't matter that the barn is falling down and I can't afford to cultivate the land. My ancestors' blood and bones are in it. They passed it down from generation to generation. It isn't the money and I don't want to live somewhere else.

Pushing this analogy, the British mandate of Palestine after WWI was a sort of quitclaim deed. The British took the land from the Ottomans (eminent domain) and passed it to the Jews but without any warrant that the deed was valid, thereby setting up the mess we have now.

Obviously, I'm oversimplifying a mindbogglingly complex issue here and undoubtedly giving offense to countless other perspectives. To be honest, I'm certain I haven't more than a passing notion of what I'm talking about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:15 PM on 11/17/2008
- vippy I'm a Fan of vippy 77 fans permalink

I bet most Israelis are as sick of this mess with the Palestinians as the Palestinians are. But somehow someone is keeping this thing stirred up just follow the money. Remember, when Arafat had died he had lots and lots of money stashed away.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:03 AM on 11/17/2008

Peace is possible, but there must be a deep understanding. No more of THIS will be permitted or concealed from the US public:

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/movers-and-shakers/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:02 AM on 11/17/2008
- Abo I'm a Fan of Abo 5 fans permalink

'Dore Gold, a former Israeli ambassador to the United Nations, said Israelis don't need "outside actors to impose a solution on them." '

Fine, as the largest recepient of US foreign aid, they can turn down the gravy train.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:56 AM on 11/17/2008
- who38 I'm a Fan of who38 72 fans permalink

We can't afford the gravy anymore and what little is left needs to go to US citizens.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:14 AM on 11/17/2008
- Abo I'm a Fan of Abo 5 fans permalink

Why do American Jews, who consider themselves Progressive Liberals on so many issues--and after an admirable record of activism in all areas of social justice, support the Right-wing government of Israel?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:46 AM on 11/17/2008
- chaos4700 I'm a Fan of chaos4700 85 fans permalink
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Honestly? I can't speak with authority but I imagine most of them don't. A lot of American Jews simply stay silent, and what we see in AIPAC and on the media are a very vocal (and wealthy) minority within their community. There's a lot of family and cultural pressure for Jews to accept Zionism unconditionally, whether they like it or not. To be fair, it's the same sort of pressure all US citizens faced when the Bush administration built its case for war in Iraq -- "If you disagree, you're siding with the terrorists!"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:33 AM on 11/17/2008
- who38 I'm a Fan of who38 72 fans permalink

It seems like the German attitude during WWII as well....stay silent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 AM on 11/17/2008
- lynjs I'm a Fan of lynjs 34 fans permalink
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I don't want to offend anyone. If I do, I don't mean too but we must look at history for insight on this matter .

Britain and the US started this mess in 1948 when they split the land. Over the years, both sides have fought over the various holy sites and anything else they could find. Their disagreement has spilled over into other countries and is basically an albatross around the neck the US putting a bullseye on us by the various terrorist entities.

It is way past time for both sides to grow up. Both need to learn to trust and understand that the fighting will end. The US, if need be, with NATO's help, should put troops on the ground to enforce the peace process, making sure the illegal settlements are dismantled and that the needy in the Palestian terroritories are helped. They also need to disarm the Palestians and encourage nonviolence to them. If need be, cut off aid to the Israeli government. Some times you have to do what you have to do.

It isn't about the Bible anymore. It is about the safety of all of those involved and particularly us here in the States. And I believe that safety's road will begin and end when the Palestinians can have a true state and peace with Israel. The heavy-handed tactics that have been used throughout the years by the Israelis are only making it worse. Grow up already.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:16 AM on 11/17/2008
- arvay I'm a Fan of arvay 140 fans permalink
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Using NATO troops to separate the two peoples, enforce a cease-fire and dismantle the illegal settlements is certainly an original idea!! Outside forces may indeed be necessary to enforce a settlement, worth some thought.

It's already been suggested that significant numbers of IDF troops might rebel at being asked to remove settlers. As we've seen with the assassination of Rabin, Israel doesn't lack for the kind of fanatics more commonly associated in Western minds with Palestinians. And Israel was founded with the help of the same kind of "terrorists" that it condemns now that it's in control of a restive population, these people have descendants and sympathizers.

The great risk is that we could see two simultaneous civil wars plus attacks on the peacekeepers. Could a NATO force or another force effectively seal the borders? Would the Arab neighbors agree to the arrangement?

Personally, I think a one-state solution, however unlikely that seems now, may be the only way to avoid a total meltdown that ignites more regional conflict. One state guaranteeing equal political rights for both Arabs and Jews would give both peoples some stake in a common destiny.

As you say, this situation is an albatross for the US, we have a billion people who resent, dislike or outright hate us, primarily because of our one-sided support of Israel. Something basic has to change, this will only get worse.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:13 AM on 11/17/2008
- chaos4700 I'm a Fan of chaos4700 85 fans permalink
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I'm compelled to agree. As long as Israel insists on an "inherently Jewish character" it will always be an inherently racist state, and it will continue to isolate itself from its regional neighbors in just the same way a caucasian upper-class gated community isolates itself from other neighborhoods. A Palestinian state that is mostly walled in by that, cannot survive, not in the modern global economy -- and Israel knows that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:00 AM on 11/17/2008
- Invox I'm a Fan of Invox 10 fans permalink
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Couldn't agree more. There's blame to go around on this issue. Emotions get unreasonably high in the Middle East when it comes to religious real estate. "Holy Ground" drives much of it, which I find ridiculous, but it is what it is. No wonder Christianity went elsewhere. The Israeli-Palestinian situation is largely to blame for the rise of terrorism in other regions. It's been festering for decades so here we are. Still in the muck and mire.

We need to work with both sides on this whether Israel likes it or not. And then we need to distance ourselves from the entire region in terms of sympathy positions. Deal with all of them on a matter of fact basis and keep our noses out of it. It's a messy place. It's always been a messy place.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:07 AM on 11/17/2008
- chaos4700 I'm a Fan of chaos4700 85 fans permalink
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Not to be pedantic but there are more Christians in the Middle East than you think there are. Syria for instance has at least %10 of its population as Christians, and it is regarded by us as a "purely Muslim" country. I believe there were at least as many Christians percent-wise in Iraq before we got there (not so much now, any national refugee crisis is going to naturally affect the balance minority populations with more pressure). I want to say Lebanon is almost %40 Christian.

The US media convenient ignores that when it portrays the Middle East. Here's a possible explanation: Israel only has %2 of its population as Christians. Whose interest is it that the Middle East be portrayed to the US as a region openly hostile to Christianity?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:39 AM on 11/17/2008
- Mahi Joe I'm a Fan of Mahi Joe 49 fans permalink

Providing any military presence is not the solution. The econmic disparity between the two factions needs to be addressed. Also, the division in Palestinian leadership, Fatah Vs. Hamas, needs to be unified so they have one voice who speaks for all their people. As long as there is a conflict between Fatah and Hamas there can be no peace settlement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 AM on 11/17/2008
- who38 I'm a Fan of who38 72 fans permalink

That economic disparity is artificial and would soon be rectified if peace prevailed. Please don't make this a Fatah and Hamas issue unless you include Likkud and Shia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:20 AM on 11/17/2008

I hope and pray that peace and understanding prevails on BOTH sides.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 AM on 11/17/2008

what happened to self help?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMf9oBpvI0o

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 AM on 11/17/2008

From presidency to the next, Israel-Palestinian problem is sucking lot of productive time without possibility of any resolution. If economic sanctions imposed on North Korea etc were conceived to be resolving the associated problems, the same could be imposed on Palestine and Israel by completely cutting off the US aid to both. US can restart funding after they find a peaceful solution towards establishment of an independent Palestinian state. Unless US stops taking sides, there will be no resolution.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 AM on 11/17/2008
- who38 I'm a Fan of who38 72 fans permalink

Hear, hear.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 AM on 11/17/2008
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