Faces Of GOP Schism Starting To Take Shape

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First Posted: 11-18-08 02:48 PM   |   Updated: 12-19-08 05:12 AM

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As glib as it is to talk about how the 2008 election left the GOP in a fractious state, this is not just idle tea-time chatter for poli-sci nabobs: the GOP is faced with a Classic versus New Coke decision. They can dial up the Palin populism or chart a new course along with the Grand New Party types. And we can already start ascribing faces to each side. Ana Marie Cox has been assessing the future figureheads of the GOP, and, in a pair of interviews for The Daily Beast, the contrasts between the two potential party personalities emerge in striking fashion.

Mike Pence is a congressman from Indiana who's set to take over as chair of the House Republican Conference. About all you need to know about the guy is contained in Cox's deck text: he thinks "the GOP lost in 2008 by not being conservative enough."

Q: What do you think happened to Republicans this cycle?


PENCE: Well, I think Republicans lost because of a combination of a very well-run, national campaign by the Democratic Party and the Democratic nominee, and a profound loss of credibility on issues of fiscal discipline, limited government, and reform. And I think the way back is for us with OUR voters, is to renew our commitment to putting in to practice what we've always professed.

Of course, the one thing that the Mike Pences of the world are reluctant to address is the fact that the cohort he refers to as "OUR voters" were presented with a number of variations on the classic conservative candidate, and moved very quickly to anoint McCain. But I digress. Pence's larger concern is about the size of government, and he declares Bush's "big government conservatism" to be "a failed experiment." Frankly, I think that the failed experiment of the Bush Presidency had less to do with the size of government than it did with the overall lack of competence featured in the governance.

Q: But with the election of Obama, Americans have clearly embraced the idea of big government. What successful political candidates of the modern era have promised smaller government?


PENCE: I think the candidacies of George W. Bush certainly professed a commitment to fiscal disciple. I remember even Bill Clinton in his day. I remember the state of the union address, when he said, "The era of big government is over."

Q: But do you feel like he followed through on that promise?

PENCE: With a Republican majority in Congress, you saw President Clinton sign balanced budgets and bring about welfare reform. But I still believe in my heart, that most Americans know that the government that governs least governs best and that as government expends, freedom contracts. And I really believe with all of my heart today that the majority of Americans today, regardless of individual election results, or this national election results, are looking for leaders who will apply those principles to the governance of the nation.

Of course, Pence's response more or less neatly ignores the premise of the original question, that voters opted for Obama's vision of governance. Basically, Pence's prescription for what ails his party is to continue doing, to coin a phrase, more of the same, and hope for better results.

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Tim Pawlenty, on the other hand, approached the question in a very different way. Asked to "decode" his vision of the future of the GOP, Pawlenty consciously steers away from bromides, and, significantly, goes right to citing policy initiatives:

Q: I've heard you describe yourself as a traditional, mainstream conservative, but you don't seem that way to me. What is it about you that makes liberals like me not frightened of you?


PAWLENTY: [Laughs] I consider myself a conservative, you know, it's a worn-out phrase, in the Reagan tradition. If you look at the whole Reagan record ... part of it was he was pragmatic, he was hopeful, he was optimistic, he was civil, he was positive. But I think the Republican Party needs to be more contemporary.

Q: When you say "contemporary," you don't mean moderate, so what do you mean? Decode that for me.

PAWLENTY: I will decode that for you. A couple of tangible examples. We were behind on the energy debate. It was a huge need. It was part of the reason we're in this economic trouble and instead of scrambling to come up with some stuff over the last year like we did as a national party, we should have been doing what Minnesota and some other individuals and groups have done and been addressing this aggressively, fifteen or twenty years ago. "Drill, baby, drill" is, not by itself, a comprehensive, contemporary energy strategy. We should not have been the party DRAGGED to the renewable energy debate, we should have been out leading it, with OUR approaches, ideas and incentives for it.

That's an example, another example: just the bread and butter issues. I won't go through them all because your eyes will glaze over, but one actual example is, people are worried--"How am I gonna pay for my kid's tuition?" Republicans could be very modern, reach out to young people by saying, "We're going to reduce your tuition, and here's how we're going to do it. We're going to make the program have more variety, it's going to be more accessible, it's going to be more technologically savvy, it's going to look more like an iPod than a 1940s assembly line. We're gonna offer money to regional universities or universities that can put all or most of their degrees online. And we're gonna help pay for it. Instead of building more buildings, we're migrating delivery of higher education services online and once you add one more student to an online program, the marginal cost is zero--and so instead of having a debate about tuition going up X percent or Y percent, we could be talking about tuition going down X percent or Y percent. And, by the way, you can access it anywhere, any time, best of class..." And that would, I think, relate to young people. It would be technologically "current," it would be talking about reforming the way we deliver a service, it would about providing it better, cheaper, faster... it would be "cool."

Of course, I have to wonder where Pawlenty was keeping this whole tuition-reduction-through-online-advancement idea the whole time he was flacking for -- and perhaps hoping to serve as the Vice-President of -- John McCain, who could have benefited from anything remotely "contemporary," let alone "cool." But this is why I basically consider Pawlenty to be the emerging "formidable opponent" on the GOP side, heading to 2012. Unlike Mike Pence, he seems to understand that a greater obeisance to the "worn-out phrases" that have defined the GOP's side of the endless "Red-versus-Blue" debate will not help his party's future fortunes. Rather, he seems to believe that a cure for the GOP's ailments, and service-oriented, prescriptive policies that address the needs of the electorate, are inextricably linked.

As glib as it is to talk about how the 2008 election left the GOP in a fractious state, this is not just idle tea-time chatter for poli-sci nabobs: the GOP is faced with a Classic versus New Coke deci...
As glib as it is to talk about how the 2008 election left the GOP in a fractious state, this is not just idle tea-time chatter for poli-sci nabobs: the GOP is faced with a Classic versus New Coke deci...
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Funny that no one has mentioned the divisiveness of the Bush 8 years. The neocons in their prostitution of religion are so saturated with hate they fail to realize, "As you sow, so shall you reap."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:45 PM on 11/18/2008
- deeppeace I'm a Fan of deeppeace 53 fans permalink
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Am I the only one who has a problem with, "Q: But with the election of Obama, Americans have clearly embraced the idea of big government. "

Where is that written in stone? Is it not possible for a new-thinking, disciplined, effective leader to do things differently? And, BTW, I dispute the entire notion that the Democrats are simply the party of big government. Government's 'size' has less to do with headcount than power, and I think the Republican administrations of the last 30 years have tried to de-fund services (headcount) while expanding control over constitutional and civil rights (power).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:45 PM on 11/18/2008

You got it. Welcome to the new, intellectual pragmatism in governance. Obama is the lama of the new 'middle way' in DC.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:56 PM on 11/18/2008

NO, you're not the only one. I completely agree with you.

As far as the GOP goes, until they stop pandering to the xenophobes, anti-intellectuals and religious ideologues that seem to make up a decent portion of their "base" they can forget about me crossing party lines to vote republican (I have before) any time soon.
America is changing. The world is changing and they better figure it out before it's too late to turn back.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:01 PM on 11/18/2008
- GranE I'm a Fan of GranE 15 fans permalink

Pence and Palin talk just alike. If you can filter through their long sentences you will see that they take a paragraph to say absolutely nothing. Put Pence and Palin in the Bubba Club. Pawlenty is still an IF, Maybe? Burton is president of the Bubba Club. When it is so easy to see right through all the exteriors of the Republicans you will see that they are all inept of thinking through any issue, so therefore they will never reach a consensus on where their party needs to go. Can't do much without some brains. Don't count on their reaching a consensus. Ain't gonna happen. There is a party and a half there,the Evangelicals, and the "think they know something" crowd. They would do well to split off the party and save the half to build on. Otherwise they are "poof".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:40 PM on 11/18/2008

Pawlenty should be the future of the Republicans. Palin most likely is.

Why? Simple. She's the same proverbial "blank slate" that Shrub was in 2000. A "charismatic" love magnet for all the rednecks and haters and wacko evangelicals. Yet someone who will, at the same time, shill endlessly for big oil, the Arabs, big coal, the NRA, insurance companies, etc.

It's not about ideas for the Republican power brokers. It's about anything but.

Aside from the fortuitous election of Barack Obama, I believe 2008 is also the genesis of a third, libertaria­n/conserva­tive political party that hearkens to Bill Buckley, a party that could include: Chuck Hagel, Pawlenty, Bob Barr, Mike Murphy, Colin Powell, George Will, etc. A party that will likely eclipse the current "Republican" party, which will ultimately go the way of Huey Long and George Wallace.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:40 PM on 11/18/2008
- TakeSake I'm a Fan of TakeSake 23 fans permalink
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Pawlenty always makes a left turn when things get tough around election time. Then, once things are settled, he's back over to the right again. Everything he says is about as substantial as melted snow.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:02 PM on 11/18/2008
- Carolab I'm a Fan of Carolab 381 fans permalink
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Yup, just like Coleman--one of those guys that smiles while he lies and stabs you in the back.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:16 PM on 11/18/2008
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Your thesis is probably why the GOP would prefer Palin to Huckabee. Because although they are both Evangelicals, I get the sense (and I could be wrong) that Huckabee actually takes his beliefs - as much as I disagree with most of them - to their logical conclusion; and that means a genuinely populist economic agenda in keeping with Christ's teachings. Whereas Huckabee seems to actually care about the least among him and have a lunch-pail world view, Palin is quite literally winking at the Party hierarchy: "Don't worry - I'll talk about Joes The Plumber and Sixpack, but I'll let them eat cake." I don't think Huckabee will play corporate ball, which is why the Party machine will ultimately never get behind him. With her, as you said, they get, as they did with Bush, the best of both worlds: Faux-Christianity, and faux-populism to sucker in the base, but with a distinctly elitist, corporate agenda behind the scenes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:18 PM on 11/18/2008

love it! republicans have no clue to what's going on in the country. by mid century (if not sooner) they'll be gone if they don't go through some radical changes in their platform and base now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:37 PM on 11/18/2008
- Bullwinkie I'm a Fan of Bullwinkie 16 fans permalink

Like the current admin. Pawlenty is just changing the spin instead of the policy. Energy solutions call for government oversight and government capital for infrastructure. Schools call for capital.
Less government does not work. He also ignores the "social intrusion" of the right that he has supported.

Online colleges would explain why they thought Palin was educated though.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:35 PM on 11/18/2008
- dwillisno1 I'm a Fan of dwillisno1 55 fans permalink
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Faces of GOP Schism Starting to Take Shape???

GOP Faces, two I presume.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:32 PM on 11/18/2008

Step one for progressive Republican­s... discover your inner liberal.

:-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:30 PM on 11/18/2008

Don't all Republicans need to admit they have a problem?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:32 PM on 11/18/2008
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Isn't that a first step in AA?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:39 PM on 11/18/2008
- Lorifromky I'm a Fan of Lorifromky 14 fans permalink

I think that people who are against online learning are far removed from their college days. I remember going to class and barely keeping my eyes open. I skipped the maximum number of classes I was allowed to skip that the instructor allowed per the syllabus. I had to work part time and, truth be told, spent a fair amount of time "socializing" as one tends to do in college. I graduated with a 3.4 GPA and a BA. The first two years of college were repeats of what I had in high school anyways, so I can appreciate it when someone wants to streamline the learning process. It could save students money and time in transportation and parking costs. Some upper level courses would no doubt require face to face interaction, but does anyone think they need to be in a physical classroom to take Philosophy 101?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:30 PM on 11/18/2008

Pence and Palanty, these wing nuts don't have a clue about what is best for the good of the country. They are stuck in the religious right thinking, that what the evangelicas say is so. But let them them continue with their thinking, it it all good. The republican party will never regroup, until they get rid of all these crooks and bring in a new and even younger bunch.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:26 PM on 11/18/2008

as an educator who has witnessed first hand the end results of online learning..­..i will agree with pawlenty that it has a (small) place in the grand scheme of things. but to move steadily towards a major number of college attendees earing degrees in this way is way off base. the educational process involves much more than reading and regurgitating facts. from my perspective, the human interaction sorely missing from online learning is tantamount to sensory deprivation. do we really want a generation of learners who have no social skills?

as for the governor's mature and learned demeanor and, yes!, eloquent speach....­.....mccai­n and the repub party have got to be kicking themselves in the proverbial a s s.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:22 PM on 11/18/2008

As a current college student, I believe that an on campus college education is incredibly valuable. Not only do students learn essential social skills and make lasting connections, but they learn how to debate and speak coherently, skills that are declining in the internet age. Although internet education does have it's place, it is not the best way to educate the youth.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:33 PM on 11/18/2008
- triplbee I'm a Fan of triplbee 26 fans permalink

I've been in education for 20 years. While I agree with you, the fact of the matter is that college is too expensive in this country and there is no public will to substantively subsidize tuition. In fact, here in California they are actually CUTTING the slots available to incoming freshman next year. (What a disaster!!!!) But I digress...­.Whether we like it or not, we are going to see a lot more online learning because it is so inexpensive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:44 PM on 11/18/2008
- Russycle I'm a Fan of Russycle 2 fans permalink

Well, as the saying goes, if you think education is expensive, try ignorance. I've been working in higher ed IT for 15 years, and in the late 90's everyone thought online courses would be the goose that lays golden eggs. The reality here has been that online classes are not cheaper, students actually pay a surcharge for online courses. Yes, it is possible to package something together and sell it to a million students for cheap, but whether it has any actual value is questionable.

Aside from the education bit, Pawlenty didn't sound too bad, at least he actually took a stab at answering the questions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:10 PM on 11/18/2008
- SoD1 I'm a Fan of SoD1 9 fans permalink

"But I still "believe" in my heart, that most Americans know that the government that governs least governs best and that as government expends, freedom contracts. And I "really believe" with all of my heart today that the majority of Americans today, regardless of individual election results, or this national election results, are looking for leaders who will apply those principles to the governance of the nation."

Hmm. If Pence REALLY wants to "believe" that badly in his own fairy tales, hey it is never to late for him to become a Priest or a Rabbi! In Politics on the other side, there is no space for "Believe" but only for Knowledge!
And Pawlenty how old is he again? 15 yers old? How "uncool" that he can not even say "Internet Schools" or Online Education", what is probably out of all ideas I have read about how to enhance the crappy U.S. education system, the most dumbest.
.I bet Pawlenty must have been home-schooled, where he learned to "repack" same old same old as “new”. All Intelligence is lost on those fiscal Conservatives!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:20 PM on 11/18/2008
- bboyy I'm a Fan of bboyy 9 fans permalink
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On-line education would only attract hillbillies and Alaskans.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:19 PM on 11/18/2008
- roshni I'm a Fan of roshni 175 fans permalink

Alaskans don't do education if their gov. is any indication­..........

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:26 PM on 11/18/2008
- Ssebo I'm a Fan of Ssebo 3 fans permalink

They will alienate the last of the moderate right. Democrats should start scouting Obama's heir for 2012.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:17 PM on 11/18/2008
- roshni I'm a Fan of roshni 175 fans permalink

Obama's heir? Obama is perfectly capable of running again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:27 PM on 11/18/2008
- blaze I'm a Fan of blaze 3 fans permalink

I love it when Republicans claim that Clinton's balanced budgets are because of them. Newt Gingrich shut down the government twice over the budget. Al Gore had to vote to break a tie in the Senate (ruled by Republicans) to enact the first balanced budget.

R's love to claim any success and they run from their obvious failures like rabbits.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:12 PM on 11/18/2008
- Poboy I'm a Fan of Poboy 21 fans permalink

You know what blaze,

That vote was extraordinary, both in the House and Senate.

Not a single Republican voted for it.

NOT ONE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_Budget_Reconciliation_Act_of_1993

I think there is a lesson here to Democrats, if they only look.

These Republicans don't compromise.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:34 PM on 11/18/2008
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