Faces Of GOP Schism Starting To Take Shape

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First Posted: 11-18-08 02:48 PM   |   Updated: 12-19-08 05:12 AM

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As glib as it is to talk about how the 2008 election left the GOP in a fractious state, this is not just idle tea-time chatter for poli-sci nabobs: the GOP is faced with a Classic versus New Coke decision. They can dial up the Palin populism or chart a new course along with the Grand New Party types. And we can already start ascribing faces to each side. Ana Marie Cox has been assessing the future figureheads of the GOP, and, in a pair of interviews for The Daily Beast, the contrasts between the two potential party personalities emerge in striking fashion.

Mike Pence is a congressman from Indiana who's set to take over as chair of the House Republican Conference. About all you need to know about the guy is contained in Cox's deck text: he thinks "the GOP lost in 2008 by not being conservative enough."

Q: What do you think happened to Republicans this cycle?


PENCE: Well, I think Republicans lost because of a combination of a very well-run, national campaign by the Democratic Party and the Democratic nominee, and a profound loss of credibility on issues of fiscal discipline, limited government, and reform. And I think the way back is for us with OUR voters, is to renew our commitment to putting in to practice what we've always professed.

Of course, the one thing that the Mike Pences of the world are reluctant to address is the fact that the cohort he refers to as "OUR voters" were presented with a number of variations on the classic conservative candidate, and moved very quickly to anoint McCain. But I digress. Pence's larger concern is about the size of government, and he declares Bush's "big government conservatism" to be "a failed experiment." Frankly, I think that the failed experiment of the Bush Presidency had less to do with the size of government than it did with the overall lack of competence featured in the governance.

Q: But with the election of Obama, Americans have clearly embraced the idea of big government. What successful political candidates of the modern era have promised smaller government?


PENCE: I think the candidacies of George W. Bush certainly professed a commitment to fiscal disciple. I remember even Bill Clinton in his day. I remember the state of the union address, when he said, "The era of big government is over."

Q: But do you feel like he followed through on that promise?

PENCE: With a Republican majority in Congress, you saw President Clinton sign balanced budgets and bring about welfare reform. But I still believe in my heart, that most Americans know that the government that governs least governs best and that as government expends, freedom contracts. And I really believe with all of my heart today that the majority of Americans today, regardless of individual election results, or this national election results, are looking for leaders who will apply those principles to the governance of the nation.

Of course, Pence's response more or less neatly ignores the premise of the original question, that voters opted for Obama's vision of governance. Basically, Pence's prescription for what ails his party is to continue doing, to coin a phrase, more of the same, and hope for better results.

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Tim Pawlenty, on the other hand, approached the question in a very different way. Asked to "decode" his vision of the future of the GOP, Pawlenty consciously steers away from bromides, and, significantly, goes right to citing policy initiatives:

Q: I've heard you describe yourself as a traditional, mainstream conservative, but you don't seem that way to me. What is it about you that makes liberals like me not frightened of you?


PAWLENTY: [Laughs] I consider myself a conservative, you know, it's a worn-out phrase, in the Reagan tradition. If you look at the whole Reagan record ... part of it was he was pragmatic, he was hopeful, he was optimistic, he was civil, he was positive. But I think the Republican Party needs to be more contemporary.

Q: When you say "contemporary," you don't mean moderate, so what do you mean? Decode that for me.

PAWLENTY: I will decode that for you. A couple of tangible examples. We were behind on the energy debate. It was a huge need. It was part of the reason we're in this economic trouble and instead of scrambling to come up with some stuff over the last year like we did as a national party, we should have been doing what Minnesota and some other individuals and groups have done and been addressing this aggressively, fifteen or twenty years ago. "Drill, baby, drill" is, not by itself, a comprehensive, contemporary energy strategy. We should not have been the party DRAGGED to the renewable energy debate, we should have been out leading it, with OUR approaches, ideas and incentives for it.

That's an example, another example: just the bread and butter issues. I won't go through them all because your eyes will glaze over, but one actual example is, people are worried--"How am I gonna pay for my kid's tuition?" Republicans could be very modern, reach out to young people by saying, "We're going to reduce your tuition, and here's how we're going to do it. We're going to make the program have more variety, it's going to be more accessible, it's going to be more technologically savvy, it's going to look more like an iPod than a 1940s assembly line. We're gonna offer money to regional universities or universities that can put all or most of their degrees online. And we're gonna help pay for it. Instead of building more buildings, we're migrating delivery of higher education services online and once you add one more student to an online program, the marginal cost is zero--and so instead of having a debate about tuition going up X percent or Y percent, we could be talking about tuition going down X percent or Y percent. And, by the way, you can access it anywhere, any time, best of class..." And that would, I think, relate to young people. It would be technologically "current," it would be talking about reforming the way we deliver a service, it would about providing it better, cheaper, faster... it would be "cool."

Of course, I have to wonder where Pawlenty was keeping this whole tuition-reduction-through-online-advancement idea the whole time he was flacking for -- and perhaps hoping to serve as the Vice-President of -- John McCain, who could have benefited from anything remotely "contemporary," let alone "cool." But this is why I basically consider Pawlenty to be the emerging "formidable opponent" on the GOP side, heading to 2012. Unlike Mike Pence, he seems to understand that a greater obeisance to the "worn-out phrases" that have defined the GOP's side of the endless "Red-versus-Blue" debate will not help his party's future fortunes. Rather, he seems to believe that a cure for the GOP's ailments, and service-oriented, prescriptive policies that address the needs of the electorate, are inextricably linked.

As glib as it is to talk about how the 2008 election left the GOP in a fractious state, this is not just idle tea-time chatter for poli-sci nabobs: the GOP is faced with a Classic versus New Coke deci...
As glib as it is to talk about how the 2008 election left the GOP in a fractious state, this is not just idle tea-time chatter for poli-sci nabobs: the GOP is faced with a Classic versus New Coke deci...
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- theone718 I'm a Fan of theone718 23 fans permalink
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Pawlenty would be the best choice for the GOP in 2012 in terms of actually governing. As a candidate thought? He is boring as ice melting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:37 PM on 11/18/2008
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Its very simple, R E L I G I O N killed the G O P. The American people may be right of center or left of center but they don't want the Southern Baptist Convention running the government. The Founding Fathers knew this but Karl Rove did not know or more likely didn't care. Their lust for power blinded them to this very simple fact. The whole fabric of this nation lends itself to progressive, liberal thought. It may move slower than some of us want but that is the road we are on and the road we will travel. Karl Rove and his ilk were one trick ponies who used the Right Wing Fundamentalist Base. It worked for a few elections but they were empty of substance and empty of soul. I knew this would happen. I just wondered how long it would take. They have done so much damage by sewing the seeds of Hate that continue of Right Wing radio today.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:52 PM on 11/18/2008
- JM817 I'm a Fan of JM817 2 fans permalink
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Pence wants to believe that most Americans want less government. It certainly makes it convenient when you campaign and promise people absolutely nothing except to get out of the way. Somehow I think that works much better for the very wealthy people of our nation than for the vast majority of regular people, who actually do want something from their government.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:35 PM on 11/18/2008

That tuition proposal is kinda scary. I've met people with online degrees. Most of them do not strike me as having earned them

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:32 PM on 11/18/2008

I'm going to school online -- I work pretty hard to get my grades! Not all schools are the same.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:15 PM on 11/18/2008
- rcampbell I'm a Fan of rcampbell 11 fans permalink

The GOP claims that government doesn't work. Every time they get the reins of government, they prove they're right (Reagan, Bush 41 and 43). Democrats believe there is a positive role for government and when THEY get the opportunity, government runs well (Clinton).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:29 PM on 11/18/2008
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As the inheritors of the Dixiecrat party, the republicans have shifted their "base" to the "born-again" Christian taliban. More often than not these people reject reason and logic/learning with just about everything as a "sin against God" (and they say so, so it's true), and as we have seen more and more over the last 8 years, these people are so hyped up in their complete denial of reality and so vocal about the "end times" scenario that they are frightening!

Unless and until the GOP is ready to change the tactics on bitterly dividing this nation, not based on the real issues that need real solutions and ideas, but on the trumped up "culture wars" and their denial that small/large, incompetent, laisez faire, let large corporations be unfettered to run the government as they screw the "average working American" - my hope is that they continue to loose!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:29 PM on 11/18/2008
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I am really enjoying reading all of these different variations from the GOP about "what happened" and "what they did wrong" in this election. They keep couching their loss in all these extraneous red herrings that they believe are the real reason for the loss, all the while refusing to admit the obvious: Obama was simply the best candidate. He's clearly the best person we've seen on the political scene in YEARS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:28 PM on 11/18/2008
- katielady I'm a Fan of katielady 19 fans permalink

What planet are these dingbats residing??????????????? Shrub got us into a military mess, a financial mess, an environmental mess and a major debt that our grandchildren will be unable to make a dent. Palin was a truly crazy choice and helped Democrats enormously.

Big government; limiting government; city, county, township, state, village or federal..whatever.. is impossible. All community needs are addressed via various departments of ....... help me out here!... GOVERNMENT! tax credits and cuts for the wealthy are applied thru departments in the........ again, crew! the GOVERNMENT! so limiting any form of government is what one would term... trying to catch the horse after he has run out of the barn and the pasture...

All I hear from the republican party is capital punishment, guns and God.. None of these issues or planks are going to fix the mess we are in at this moment, this year or even next year.

Pence and company need to land on planet earth..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:27 PM on 11/18/2008

As a Minnesotan I have experience with Pawlenty's style.

Don't confuse not getting in the way of good things with actually promoting them. It could be worse, like Barbour, but Pawlenty isn't a good choice for being better than the worst.

Make no mistake... these "moderates" or whatever the label, maybe Crist or Jindal or some others, are NOT the solution and will sit idly by as the Phil Gramms and Ted Stevens do their work, then feign shock and dismay (and many Democrats will also). If you combine them with the fundies their brazenness comes out, tax-cut for good times, tax-cut for bad times, tax-cut for all incomes, cut programs but fund no-bid contracts, etc.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:25 PM on 11/18/2008
- Progress08 I'm a Fan of Progress08 22 fans permalink
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Dance my Puppets Dance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:23 PM on 11/18/2008
- Carolab I'm a Fan of Carolab 436 fans permalink
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Pawlenty campaigned here in Minnesota on a platform to "fix" our transportation. Well, guess you all know about the bridge. And there are many others that are in a highly questionable condition as well. Not to mention the state of our roads and the congestion.

Pawlenty is a L I A R. We Minnesotans do NOT like this man.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:22 PM on 11/18/2008
- Carolab I'm a Fan of Carolab 436 fans permalink
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Oh, yeah, and he VETOED the transportation bill THREE times. Thankfully our Democratic majority bicameral legislature got it passed.

Pawlenty is the usual forked-tongue obstructionist Puke.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:26 PM on 11/18/2008
- curly2 I'm a Fan of curly2 3 fans permalink

I'm so sick of Conservatives channeling Reagan every chance they get. The Reagan presidency was finished 20 years ago. Get over it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:21 PM on 11/18/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 642 fans permalink
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and REAGONOMICS officially died the day we bailed out Wall Street.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:28 PM on 11/18/2008
- Luigi53102 I'm a Fan of Luigi53102 6 fans permalink

And, if he really wanted to be out front in "the renewable energy debate," Reagan was hardly a model of productive behavior. His take was the debate was over, no one needed renewable energy. Instead of continuing programs started in the Ford and Carter administrations, which would leave us today with a generation of innovation, the Reaganites killed them. They also brought progress on automotive CAFE standards, enacted in 1975, to a screeching halt. His SecInterior, James Watt, started an assault on the environment that, with the exception of 8 years of improvement under Bill Clinton, has been unabated since 1980.

Reagan was the last likeable conservative. Although he's better than the current crop, that doesn't make him much better.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:33 PM on 11/18/2008
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Wonder why they don't ever channel Hoover!?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:53 PM on 11/18/2008
- Candyx I'm a Fan of Candyx 6 fans permalink

Pence and Palin are so far to the right they don't have any idea there is a center out there...meaning they don't give a damn about the others. Let them burn themselves down!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:19 PM on 11/18/2008
- myna I'm a Fan of myna 17 fans permalink

You know that video footage of McCain saying "the economy is fundamentally sound"? Pence's footage would be him referring to his Bagdhad 2007 visit (with McCain) as:

"like a normal outdoor market in Indiana in the summertime."

Meanwhile, he wore bulletproof vest, sharpshooters were located throughout the delegation's walk, and helicopters circled overhead.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:18 PM on 11/18/2008
- plzchuteme I'm a Fan of plzchuteme 34 fans permalink
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This article makes Pawlenty look like a pretty reasonable alternative. Being a Minnesotan, I know better. He is a small, arrogant, spiteful, revengeful, sarcastic man under the thumb of "no tax" Taxpayers League. Intelligent and personable unless you disagree with him and that's not hard to do. He may be a better choice than most of the other Republicans, but that's like choosing arsenic over strychnine. They both get you to the same place. He is a Tasmanian Devil in wolf's clothing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:18 PM on 11/18/2008
- dm10003 I'm a Fan of dm10003 17 fans permalink
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tell me more tell me more

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:31 PM on 11/18/2008
- nwfurn I'm a Fan of nwfurn 21 fans permalink

Do they ever have a reflective or complete thought? Dress it up, wrap it up and hope it passes a smell test. GW and McCain/Palin stunk to high heaven, you idiots, and the american people have suffered in every way because of it. It's like an echo chamber in their collective brains.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:17 PM on 11/18/2008
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