Obama Advisers: Torture Prosecutions Not Likely

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LARA JAKES JORDAN | November 18, 2008 12:21 AM EST | AP

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President-elect Barack Obama pauses during his meeting with Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., not shown, Monday, Nov. 17, 2008, at his transition office in downtown Chicago. (AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais)

WASHINGTON — Barack Obama's incoming administration is unlikely to bring criminal charges against government officials who authorized or engaged in harsh interrogations of suspected terrorists during the George W. Bush presidency. Obama, who has criticized the use of torture, is being urged by some constitutional scholars and human rights groups to investigate possible war crimes by the Bush administration.

Two Obama advisers said there's little _ if any _ chance that the incoming president's Justice Department will go after anyone involved in authorizing or carrying out interrogations that provoked worldwide outrage.

The advisers spoke on condition of anonymity because the plans are still tentative. A spokesman for Obama's transition team did not respond to requests for comment Monday.

Additionally, the question of whether to prosecute may never become an issue if Bush issues pre-emptive pardons to protect those involved.

Obama has committed to reviewing interrogations on al-Qaida and other terror suspects. After he takes office in January, Obama is expected to create a panel modeled after the 9/11 Commission to study interrogations, including those using waterboarding and other tactics that critics call torture. The panel's findings would be used to ensure that future interrogations are undisputedly legal.

"I have said repeatedly that America doesn't torture, and I'm going to make sure that we don't torture," Obama said Sunday on CBS' "60 Minutes." "Those are part and parcel of an effort to regain America's moral stature in the world."

Obama's most ardent supporters are split on whether he should prosecute Bush officials.

Asked this weekend during a Vermont Public Radio interview if Bush administration officials would face war crimes, Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy flatly said, "In the United States, no."

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"These things are not going to happen," said Leahy, D-Vt.

Robert Litt, a former top Clinton administration Justice Department prosecutor, said Obama should focus on moving forward with anti-torture policy instead of looking back.

"Both for policy and political reasons, it would not be beneficial to spend a lot of time hauling people up before Congress or before grand juries and going over what went on," Litt said at a Brookings Institution discussion about Obama's legal policy. "To as great of an extent we can say, the last eight years are over, now we can move forward _ that would be beneficial both to the country and the president, politically."

But Michael Ratner, a professor at Columbia Law School and president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, said prosecuting Bush officials is necessary to set future anti-torture policy.

"The only way to prevent this from happening again is to make sure that those who were responsible for the torture program pay the price for it," Ratner said. "I don't see how we regain our moral stature by allowing those who were intimately involved in the torture programs to simply walk off the stage and lead lives where they are not held accountable."

In the years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, the White House authorized U.S. interrogators to use harsh tactics on captured al-Qaida and Taliban suspects. Bush officials relied on a 2002 Justice Department legal memo to assert that its interrogations did not amount to torture _ and therefore did not violate U.S. or international laws. That memo has since been rescinded.

At least three top al-Qaida operatives _ including 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed _ were waterboarded in 2002 and 2003 because of intelligence officials' belief that more attacks were imminent. Waterboarding creates the sensation of drowning, and has been traced back hundreds of years and is condemned by nations worldwide.

Bush could take the issue of criminal charges off the table with one stroke of his pardons pen.

Whether Bush will protect his top aides and interrogators with a pre-emptive pardon _ before they are ever charged _ has become a hot topic of discussion in legal and political circles in the administration's waning days. White House deputy press secretary Tony Fratto declined to comment on the issue.

Under the Constitution, the president's power to issue pardons is absolute and cannot be overruled.

Pre-emptive pardons would be highly controversial, but former White House counsel Arthur B. Culvahouse Jr. said it would protect those who were following orders or otherwise trying to protect the nation.

"I know of no one who acted in reckless disregard of U.S. law or international law," said Culvahouse, who served under President Ronald Reagan. "It's just not good for the intelligence community and the defense community to have people in the field, under exigent circumstances, being told these are the rules, to be exposed months and years after the fact to criminal prosecution."

The Federalist Papers discourage presidents from pardoning themselves. It took former President Gerald Ford to clear former President Richard Nixon of wrongdoing in the 1972 Watergate break-in.

WASHINGTON — Barack Obama's incoming administration is unlikely to bring criminal charges against government officials who authorized or engaged in harsh interrogations of suspected terrorists d...
WASHINGTON — Barack Obama's incoming administration is unlikely to bring criminal charges against government officials who authorized or engaged in harsh interrogations of suspected terrorists d...
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- S1m0n I'm a Fan of S1m0n 103 fans permalink
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It doesn't have to be a prosecution, but the US government MUST demonstrate that their nation's commitment to the rule of law is more profound than presidential whim.

As well, the Bush administration *did* this stuff, in part, in order to set a precedent. Absent any consequence, that precedent will stand. The vile Gonzales* doctrine--that the president can legally order an innocent child's testicles crushed, if he thinks it desirable--will be the new reality.

And finally, the rules the International Criminal Court operate under say that war crimes and crimes against humanity become prosecuteable by it (in accordance with the principle of universal jurisdiction for such crimes) when the accused's own nation fails or refuses to prosecute wrongdoing. Frankly, that the not even the US president is above the law is a precedent I'd LOVE to see get set, but we're probably better off without the crisis this would cause.

*He's actually parroting Cheney.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 PM on 11/18/2008
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Impeachment.

Let us take it to a vote. Let us make a real try. Let the people protest. Let them call their congress people. Let us demonstrate that we mean business. If we can't get enough Republicans to support this cause, let us throw them to the people who are enraged. They will not keep their seats the next time around if we make a real issue of it. I guarantee it. Let us at least give it a good try. At least we could answer to history by saying we at least tried.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:55 PM on 11/18/2008
- fedupinfla I'm a Fan of fedupinfla 48 fans permalink
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I suggest we start by flooding Nancy Pelosi's email box!!!!

http://www.house.gov/pelosi/

And Congressman Dennis Kunichi is the one who drafted the 35 Articles of Impeachment so why not him too?!?

http://www.kucinich.house.gov/

It would take a massive effort on our part which means not just emailing these 2 but also the MSM, their reps in the Senate, Congress & House & blogging everywhere on the net about it. It'd be great to see an impeachment rally on the local news somewhere...

Too bad we can't get ahold of Obama's massive email list!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 11/18/2008
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Right. Do you want to research the list and then provide it? I think I have a list somewhere around here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:18 PM on 11/18/2008
- DofG I'm a Fan of DofG 50 fans permalink
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It's always interesting when people, who are unaffected by a personal violation of their humanity, say "let's look foward, not look backwards": until a crime shows up at their doorstep. And this is the very folly of Man, not understanding, nor caring, that in a universe of Oneness, there is nothing unaccounted for! The fact that we exist at all, depends on the continued substance of the past! Put an object in motion, in outer space, it will stay in motion, forever, until acted upon by an unbalanced force! Vilolate the spirit of a another human being, it's effects reverberates beyond the forces of matter, until the end of time!

We should always remember that lawyers, have never been, nor will they ever be about Law!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:54 PM on 11/18/2008
- piul05 I'm a Fan of piul05 58 fans permalink
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And most of those would do "justice" with their own hands, plus call for capital punishment if only they could bump off the offending party twice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 PM on 11/18/2008
- reliant1 I'm a Fan of reliant1 24 fans permalink
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The presidential pardon is virtually unassailable. The President could even pardon himself. It's never been done but Nixon was ready to do so.

The pardon is the pardon is the pardon. It needs to be repealed or modified - that I think takes a Constitutional amendment - so that is actully what folks should be working towards.

It would take the Supreme Court to either challenge the President being able to self pardon or to rule against it. No other pardon could be undone as they would have plenty of precedent.

It could take years then more years of appeal to maybe get Bush (and Bush alone). Then the AG (and who knows what party that will be years from now) has to choose to bring charges.

The only good news is no one else is thinking less of us or condemning us - at least no more than usual. This pardon thingie and past bad wars and war crimes etc etc have been around us for centuries. It's old news to rest of the world. We just didn't used to be so blatant and low brow about it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 11/18/2008
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But what of the PREEMPTIVE pardon? Surely that is different, doesn't the word "pardon" by definition mean that you are forgiving someone who has already been found guilty? A preemptive pardon is a very grave threat to justice, so I hope it is not actually legal and that our legal scholars look into it carefully.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:53 PM on 11/18/2008
- reliant1 I'm a Fan of reliant1 24 fans permalink
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The pre emptive will leave the presumption of guilt, without an admission of guilt.

Ford was loathed for pardoning Nixon - a pre-emptive pardon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:14 PM on 11/18/2008
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I want to add to something I said earlier. When justice is not done responsibly through the courts, history tells us that vigilantism can occur. For everyone's sake, the courts should try these people for their crimes. Otherwise, they open the door to the possibility that someone out there might take the law into their own hands.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 PM on 11/18/2008
- FogBelter I'm a Fan of FogBelter 293 fans permalink
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It would go a long way to rehabilitate the image of the United States if the Obama Administration were to prosecute domestically or aid in the prosecution, in an International Forum, the Americans guilty of crimes against humanity. Most Americans are so poorly educated they can't comprehend how far America's star has fallen in the eyes of the world. and contrary to domestically cultivated hubris, there are many areas of the world that would be more than happy to go about their business without being in the hammerlock of American influence.

Prosecuting villains from the Bush Administration would be a patriotic act that would aid the United States in recovering some of its lost credibility.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:39 PM on 11/18/2008
- K.J. Dwyer - Huffpost Blogger I'm a Fan of K.J. Dwyer 127 fans permalink

Kermit Roosevelt of the University of Pennsylvania School of Law was quoted recently in a Salon article by Mark Benjamin as follows: For the sake of "healing the country and moving forward," a blanket pardon of the possibly thousands of actors involved "followed by something like a truth and reconciliation commission . . . might not be such a bad outcome."

I guess I have a very different definition of "healing the country." It seems to me that, not content simply to continue the more than 100-year tradition of undermining democracies all over the world http://www.democracynow.org/2006/4/21/overthrow_americas_century_of_regime_change, the United States has now set its sights on itself, subverting and auto-cannibalizing its own democratic principles to the point of burlesque.

The decision is this: To prosecute such heinous acts and uphold our democratic principles, or take the expedient route of treating the rule of law like an "etch-a-sketch" and simply turn it on its head and shake it till there's nothing left but a blank slate.

I have no doubt what choice will be made. I also have no doubt that unless and until the United States takes judicial measures against such actions, the tactics employed by the Bush administration -- actions that literally subvert our own democracy and international law -- will continue to be the American modus operandi for many years to come.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:34 PM on 11/18/2008
- piul05 I'm a Fan of piul05 58 fans permalink
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Well said!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 PM on 11/18/2008
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To make things happen, it is important not to be pessimistic. Let us take action.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:44 PM on 11/18/2008
- cactusgal I'm a Fan of cactusgal 123 fans permalink

Favorited

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 PM on 11/18/2008
- reliant1 I'm a Fan of reliant1 24 fans permalink
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The 1st action has to be to repeal the power of the President to pardon or to modify it drastically.

The pardon hangs over everything - it cannot be undone once given and only a Constitutional Amendment can change it.

No international court will take this up, no matter how deserved. No court is going to be responsible for the han.ging of GWB or any American President for that matter.

The only way an American Pres will ever ha.ng is like Saddam did. After America is invaded and loses the war.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 11/18/2008
- Palemoon I'm a Fan of Palemoon 244 fans permalink
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Awesome post!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:45 PM on 11/18/2008
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I've never held out hope for impeachment or prosecution for war crimes. You can't get elected President and say that you're going to have your predecessor arrested at the same time. But, now is the time for Pelosi to step up to the plate and marginalize Bush's power by filing the paperwork - that would stop the pardons. I'm disappointed that Obama doesn't see the down-side to NOT having a special prosecutor at least look into what can be done. The world is watching.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 PM on 11/18/2008
- ginxy I'm a Fan of ginxy 7 fans permalink
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Dear Obama,

On January 21st, 2009, please tell the world that justice will be served and that the criminals who hijacked our government for the past 8 years will be held accountable for their crimes. There's simply no way to build a brighter future for our nation while all of that rotting garbage is still stinking up the place.

Please take out the trash.

Thank you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 PM on 11/18/2008

Asked this weekend during a Vermont Public Radio interview if Bush administration officials would face war crimes, Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy flatly said, "In the United States, no."

so there's maybe some hope they'll allow some investigation initiated outside the US?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 PM on 11/18/2008
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Who knows the American laws about extradition? Please, give us a lesson.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 11/18/2008
- starlady7 I'm a Fan of starlady7 29 fans permalink

To those that want to prosecute...Most of these people were following orders from the Bush admin. and those in charge will be pardoned by Bush. We should not justify our support of Obama on whether or not Bush and his admin. are charged. This country has way too many problems to be solved than just revenge!!!! If we work to make sure this never happens again and call to attention everything Bush and company kept secret, this will not only humilate those who have done unethical things, but will go a long way in getting support to change things like being able to hold people accountable for breaking the law according to the Constitution...making that an unpardonable offense!! Also, need to bring back Balance of Power! We do need to give Congress some teeth when it comes to people ignoring subpoenas like Karl Rove, and Cheney.

But really people, we are in the Worst Economic Crisis since the 1930's with massive job losses and we are engaged in two wars and we have an Energy Crisis. Its going to take everyone, Democrats and Republicans alike to pull us through this. Do we want the country to get bogged down right now in trying to go after the LAST administration!!! We are going to need some of the Republicans to go forward!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:22 PM on 11/18/2008
- piul05 I'm a Fan of piul05 58 fans permalink
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"...Most of these people were following orders from the Bush admin..."

That excuse was deemed unacceptable at Nuremberg.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:30 PM on 11/18/2008
- TexasDem0 I'm a Fan of TexasDem0 36 fans permalink

And unacceptable for the My Lai massacre.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 PM on 11/18/2008
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When somebody steals something, beatssomebody up, rapessomebody, etc. and we put him or her in jail, is that revenge? No, it is not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 PM on 11/18/2008
- priorato I'm a Fan of priorato 4 fans permalink

I realize a few others have taken issue with your Comment, but I would just say: this is not about revenge, this is about the Rule of Law. No Administration should be so callous, secretive, arrogant, incompetent and utterly lawless without consequences. Our Country is built upon a foundation of Law and Order -- as articulated in the Constitution. President's take an Oath to Defend the Constitution for that document is sacred.

Bush trampled all over the Constitution and the scary part is: we don't even know what they've done for the past 8 years. If Lichtblau at the NYT didn't report on the warrantless wiretapping -- we would have never known. If brave people did not break the story about torture, we would have never known. This is about discovering the Truth and holding people accountable. If you don't pay your taxes, the IRS might throw you in jail. If you steal from work, there are consequences.

How anyone can advocate simply "moving on" and not finding out what atrocities were committed against U.S. citizens and others around the world -- is beyond me. It is sad.

I wonder how I will explain to my children when they are older and they ask me about what happened during these past 8 years... what will I say?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 11/18/2008

Not to mention, as you touched upon, making the hard and courageous work of those who stood up justified.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 11/18/2008
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NAME THE DAY!!!! WHAT DAY WOULD BE BEST FOR THE COUNTRY TO TAKE A DAY OFF OF WORK AND TAKE TO THE STREETS?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:22 PM on 11/18/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 288 fans permalink
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If Democrats took a day off from work the country wouldn't even notice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:26 PM on 11/18/2008
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I hope you are joking.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 PM on 11/18/2008
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A whole lot of Republicans would take the day off as well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 PM on 11/18/2008
- fedupinfla I'm a Fan of fedupinfla 48 fans permalink
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If Republicans took a day off the crime rate would drop, legislature would pass, & the stock market would rise....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 PM on 11/18/2008
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This Saturday.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 PM on 11/18/2008

That's good news. the last thing this country needs is another witch hunt. So far Obama is showing to be a true moderate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 PM on 11/18/2008
- carex I'm a Fan of carex 7 fans permalink

CHANGE ?

If there is one thing Obama should take with him from this election, it is the fact that this country wants not only change, but accountability as well.

Sweeping the crimes of Bush under the carpet will haunt Obama's presidency and render it just as big a joke as Fords pardon of Nixon reduced him to a place keeper in the White House.

These crimes need to be addressed by our government.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 11/18/2008
- kiran1207 I'm a Fan of kiran1207 9 fans permalink

i am disappointed about this. The whole purpose of stopping torture is that many innocent victims get caught up in the mess. I am sure there are tons of innocent people that were tortured under the Bush policies, imagine how scary that is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:28 PM on 11/18/2008
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America is and will always be a joke until we start putting corrupt politicians in jail.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:19 PM on 11/18/2008
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