Obama Wants To Stay The Course On Climate

DotEarth:

President-elect Barack Obama sent a video message to a summit meeting on global warming organized by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger of California, implying that despite the continuing economic turmoil, reductions in greenhouse gas emissions will remain a central component of Mr. Obama's energy, environmental and economic policies.

Many climate scientists would undoubtedly suggest some tweaks in the language in the statement -- the line about "stopping climate change," for instance. Keep in mind that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change last year concluded that a freeze on global emissions now wouldn't have a measurable impact on warming rates for several decades. But the overall tenor of the message was clearly that the need to curb heat-trapping gases will not be a come-and-go issue in this administration.

Read the whole story: DotEarth

Comments

[GoVeg]

The truth to solving global warming!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ol_6Ju3oYI

[DrewRicketts]

Obama's Green is the New Black...in order to face the challenges of race, division and even humanity, he must address the thing that affects us all: the planet. His initiatives to get better energy in higher production speak to a larger force he must tap into as the days of his presidency roll in.

http://newsone.blackplanet.com/nation/ricketts-obamas-green-is-the-new-black/

[Rudderman]

All of these arguements as to whether climate change is man-made or not are ridiculous. Why? Because dumping tons of carbon into the air every second cannot possibly be good for anything. It's pollution people not matter how you look at it.

Every corner of this planet is in peril from the world's dying oceans to her melting mountain glaciers. All this bickering is pointless and a waste of precious time. We must cut back on our addiction to fossil fuels ASAP or we will most surely become fossils ourselves.

[Michale32086]

Hysterical fear-mongering at it's finest...

Michale.....

[Ramirez]

Meanwhile Europe grows cooler on Kyoto.
****

Climate Change Rules Shouldn't Hurt Economy - Germany

Tuesday November 18th, 2008 / 18h59


TRIESTE, Italy -(Dow Jones)- Italy and Germany agree that measures to cut greenhouse gases shouldn't weigh on the economy, Germany Chancellor Angela Merkel said at a press conference Tuesday, indicating government support for tough new measures in Europe is waning.
Any new European Union decisions on climate change and energy "must be taken in such a way as to not weigh on industry" in Europe, she said at a press conference televised live by Sky Italia.

Italy, Poland and a few other nations in mid-October threatened to veto ambitious new E.U. goals to fight climate change slated to be approved at the end of this year, saying that the measures were expensive. Italy asked for a new assessment of costs, and for more flexibility in their implementation.

Germany's public support of Italy's position means that E.U. leaders may find it harder to get the package approved this year, as scheduled. ...

http://www.easybourse.com/bourse-actualite/marches/update-climate-change-rules-shouldn-t-hurt-economy-germany-564357

[Michale32086]

CONT

}}}}
It's very time consuming and laborious. I just have the advantage of working in a field close enough to the issue that I get paid to review it all, pro and con, and have a background in modeling, geology, and meteorology to apply to it.
{{{{

Then you are ahead of the curve, much more so than I am.. But then, as a scientist, you can surely respect that OTHER scientists have differing points of view and the science that supports THEIR conclusions is equally compelling..

}}}
I truly respect your right to disagree, but you're doing it from a point of ignorance. To say that global average temp has been dropping since 1998 is just dead wrong. Start with the documentation from the IPCC and NOAA. Google the Milankovitch cycle. Check back in 2-3 months, because a review any shorter than that isn't anywhere near long enough to work through it. Best wishes.
{{{

I have posted the proof of the declining temps above..

But let me ask you a question.. From a variety of sources, it has been postulated that we are entering a cooling trend. A trend that started in 1998 and is continuing today..

What evidence would you require that would convince you that the earth's climate is cyclic and man's influence is very small??

I appreciate the discussion.. It's nice to keep things civil and out of the area of hysterics and fear-mongering..

Michale.....

[Michale32086]

@Chironomid

}}}
Michale.. truly with all due respect:
{{{

Appreciated..

}}}}
Equating one night's low temperature in FL with non-existence of global warming displays complete misunderstanding at its most basic level. Again, it's not "global weather".
{{{{

I was being facetious.. I realize that one night or one week of cold nights do not a cooling trend make..

However, it's a fact that the average global temps have declined steadily since 1998..

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/uah_october_2008-520.png

}}}}
In climate change, for every 500 scientists that say "yes, it is", you can find one dissenter that says "no, it isn't". There's a huge consensus on this. You're not doing your homework.
{{{{

Consensus is a POLITICAL term, not a scientific one. Science is not a popularity contest where the most "popular" theory is the "correct" one.

}}}}
There is always one piece of "science" that can suggest anything. That's why I prefaced with "up is down". You have to look at the overall body of work, not just cherry-pick for dissent.
{{{{

I have.. But I am not a scientist, so I cannot say for sure who is right and who is not.. But, for the purposes of my argument, such a determination is not required.

I simply state that the science is in dispute.. For every respected scientist who says YEA, there is an equally respected scientist who says NAY...

CONT

[OneVoiceInACrowd]

Now you can throw up your list of 32000 nay sayers but we have already discredit that list based on:
- no independent verification of signees
- no release of background data other than name and assumed profession
- decades in the making of the list
and that is not even looking at the background of the petition authors. I say release the data, allow it to stand up to scrutiny.

The MMGW theory supporters, in addition to having numerous institutions and university endorsements also created a 15,000 scientist list in 4 years, and have released the underlying data as in who signed, when they signed, their current role as it applies to climate science. All of that can be scrutinized, and it has.

You have chosen to take the minority view, and that is fine. You have your reasons for disliking Gore and the message and have decided to allow that to form your opinion. But you are correct, the minority still dispute it, and if they write more papers and get them reviewed and published then the scientific community at large will open the debate up again. It is up to your scientists to get those papers written and reviewed and published.

Until then, the view is in the minority.

[Michale32086]

Just as, hundreds of years ago, the view that the Earth was round was the "minority" view..

Just because it's a majority opinion doesn't make the opinion the right one.

Science is not a popularity contest, decided by which theory has the most votes.

Even if it's ONE scientist saying A and 1 MILLION scientists saying B, that doesn't automagically mean that B is correct...

Michale....

[OneVoiceInACrowd]

Michale - hows it going again?

I believe your saying of:
"For every respected scientist who says YEA, there is an equally respected scientist who says NAY"

Is wrong when you consider the collection of scientists who say 'Yea' is greater than the collection of scientists who say "Nay"- The consensus comes from the number of scientists and institutions that support MMGW as well as the number of published peer reviewed articles that also support it.

{cont below}

[Michale32086]

@Pulemerci

}}}}
My point is that I woke up this morning in NYC and it was 28 degrees. Last year, California's orange crop was ruined due to the bitter cold temperatures. It also cost the industry about $1 billion. I was in juneau Alaska last summer and did some research. Some scientists predict a mini-ice age in the future. I know it's hard to imagine, but not every scietist buys into Al Gore's theories.
{{{{

Well said..

That's the problem I see as well... The proponents of the Human Caused Global Warming(Yet The Planet Is Cooling) religion want everyone to accept the views of THEIR chosen scientists without question.

Yet, these same proponents refuse to accept and attack ANY other scientist who has a dissenting view.

The fact is, the science IS disputed.. That is something that the proponents simply cannot accept..

They are more like the Flat Earthers that they like to accuse others of being..

Michale..

[Chironomid]

Black is white, up is down, the moon is made of cheese.

The scientific record on human-driven global warming is rock-solid. Go read it. Yes, the climate changes over time -- in concert with CO2 on cycles 1000's of years in expanse. Not in 50 years. CO2 doesn't move on that cycle. Same for the natural orbital rhythms deniers like to cite -- again cycles of 41,000 and 100,000 years, not 50.

Don't bother responding. Go debate the science with the scientists -- you'll find out just how little you know.

[Michale32086]

The science is in dispute.. For every respected scientist that says "A" there is another respected scientist who says "B"...

The science is in dispute...

There is science to suggest that we started another COOL period back in 1998 when the temps peaked. The Global Average Temp has been dropping since then...

Here in FL, we hit a low last night of around 33 degrees.. Hard to consider Global WARMING under those conditions, eh??

Michale.....

[Chironomid]

Michale.. truly with all due respect:

Equating one night's low temperature in FL with non-existence of global warming displays complete misunderstanding at its most basic level. Again, it's not "global weather".

In climate change, for every 500 scientists that say "yes, it is", you can find one dissenter that says "no, it isn't". There's a huge consensus on this. You're not doing your homework.

There is always one piece of "science" that can suggest anything. That's why I prefaced with "up is down". You have to look at the overall body of work, not just cherry-pick for dissent. It's very time consuming and laborious. I just have the advantage of working in a field close enough to the issue that I get paid to review it all, pro and con, and have a background in modeling, geology, and meteorology to apply to it.

I truly respect your right to disagree, but you're doing it from a point of ignorance. To say that global average temp has been dropping since 1998 is just dead wrong. Start with the documentation from the IPCC and NOAA. Google the Milankovitch cycle. Check back in 2-3 months, because a review any shorter than that isn't anywhere near long enough to work through it. Best wishes.

[Hawka]

Been reading the Exxon Mobile blogs or something about those disputing the science?

[mergina]

Good idea. Than he can remain president of 50 states that are not UNDERWATER.

[Michale32086]

@Exusian

}}}}
"Nope.. Just a whole lot of common sense, logic and rational thinking."

Snort!

Michale wouldn't know a long term climate trend if he tripped on it. Or science.
{{{{

You mean your "science" that thinks it can stop climate change??

Your "science" that said October 2008 was the hottest October on record???

Your "science" that said the 1990s was the hottest decade of the 20th Century??

Your "science" that said there was a newly discovered "hot spot" in the arctic??

I could go on and on about your "science"...

Michale.....

[Michale32086]

If the Human Caused Global Warming(Yet The Planet Is Cooling) fanatics want to phrase the debate in the context of stopping pollution, then I am there...

If the Human Caused Global Warming(Yet The Planet Is Cooling) fanatics want to phrase the debate in the context of getting off our oil dependency, then count me in..

However, the Human Caused Global Warming(Yet The Planet Is Cooling) fanatics are using bogus claims and fear mongering to make their argument. And Al Gore and Richard Branson are laughing their arses off as they rake in MILLIONS of dollars a year...

"You are being conned at a level unprecedented in human history"
-Gen. Renning, By Dawn's Early Light

Michale.....

[Hawka]

Been reading the Exxon Mobile paid blogger's I see.

[Michale32086]

Nope.. Just a whole lot of common sense, logic and rational thinking.

Unlike the Human Caused Global Warming(Yet The Planet Is Cooling) religion, which relies on hysterical fear-mongering and out and out bogus "facts"...

Michale...

[Exusian]

"Nope.. Just a whole lot of common sense, logic and rational thinking."

Snort!

Michale wouldn't know a long term climate trend if he tripped on it. Or science.

[Michale32086]

Anyone who thinks that we can "stop climate change" is living in la-la land with the Ooompa Loompas...

The climate on this planet has been changing for BILLIONS of years.

It is the epitome of arrogance that humankind thinks they can "stop" it..

What's next?? Is humankind going to stop the Earth's rotation??

Michale......

[Hawka]

It was the epitome of our arrogance and folly that we started it this time. And of course we won't stop the earth's rotation, that would block sunlight from reaching half the planet. That last sentence was sarcasm by the way.

[Michale32086]

My last sentence was also sarcasm.. :D

Humankind doesn't "start" climate change...

Nor can humankind STOP climate change..

Michale.....

[Sumocat]

"Many climate scientists would undoubtedly suggest some tweaks in the language in the statement -- the line about 'stopping climate change,' for instance." -- Why would they want to change that line? President-Elect Obama said "Stopping climate change won’t be easy." Last I checked, that is an accurate assessment.

[Michale32086]

Stopping climate change will be IMPOSSIBLE...

And trying to stop it would be disastrous...

Michale.....

[Sumocat]

First, doing the impossible is not easy, so still accurate. Second, trying to do the impossible is the premise behind every great American success story. How we go about it, not whether we attempt it, will determine success or disaster.

[Pulemerci]

from NOAA:

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE FAIRBANKS AK
145 AM AKDT MON OCT 6 2008

…UNSEASONABLY COLD WEATHER CONTINUES AT FAIRBANKS…

THE HIGH TEMPERATURE YESTERDAY AT THE FAIRBANKS INTERNATIONAL
AIRPORT WAS 31 DEGREES. THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME THIS FALL THAT THE
HIGH TEMPERATURE FAILED TO REACH THE FREEZING MARK. ON AVERAGE THE
DATE OF THE FIRST DAY WITH A HIGH TEMPERATURE BELOW FREEZING IS
OCTOBER 11TH. SO FAR THIS MONTH THE WARMEST TEMPERATURE OF 38
DEGREES WAS OBSERVED ON THE 2ND.

THE AVERAGE TEMPERATURE SO FAR THIS MONTH OF 27.1 DEGREES IS 8.2
DEGREES BELOW THE 30-YEAR AVERAGE. IT HAS BEEN THE COLDEST FIRST 5
DAYS OF THE MONTH OF OCTOBER SINCE 1992.

[islandchris]

Your point?

As all of us living in the Pacific Northwest understand, cold air is usually formed in Northern Interior, and whether we see the bitter cold or not depends upon the path of the jetstream, and the boundaries between the warmer oceanic air masses and the cold, dry interior air. I'm guessing that in October Fairbanks is on that boundary, and the fact that they have had more days than "usual" where the cold Northern air has dropped South is a function of October circulation patterns - which may be affected by global warming.

As one climate scientists commented, the term "Global Warming" can lead to these misunderstandings that temperatures are supposed to steadily go up everywhere. He preferred to use the term "Global Weirding". Either way, its the biggest challenge we all face today, and we should appreciate that the political leadership in the US is finally taking it seriously..

[Michale32086]

Whidbey Island???

Michale.....

[Pulemerci]

My point is that I woke up this morning in NYC and it was 28 degrees. Last year, California's orange crop was ruined due to the bitter cold temperatures. It also cost the industry about $1 billion. I was in juneau Alaska last summer and did some research. Some scientists predict a mini-ice age in the future. I know it's hard to imagine, but not every scietist buys into Al Gore's theories.

[Chironomid]

It's global warming, not "global weather forecast".

I've sifted through half of the first page of comments here. A lot of remedial reading required.

[ObjectiveRealist]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070923-epa-may-need-to-address-carbon-dioxide-even-if-it-ignores-the-climate.html