Big Three Lobby Capitol Hill Again Today Amidst Fleeting Chances For Auto Bailout

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KEN THOMAS | November 19, 2008 03:58 PM EST | AP

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WASHINGTON — Top Senate Democrats suggested Wednesday that a bill to rescue Detroit's Big Three automakers was stalled and challenged the Bush administration to take steps to save the industry if congressional efforts falter. The White House quickly rebuffed the suggestion.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada sought to lower expectations of reaching a deal on the $25 billion proposal before Congress quits for the year.

While he told the Senate he still hoped lawmakers could agree to an auto deal in the "next day or two" of the current lame-duck session, he added: "If we can't do it here legislatively, I would hope that the secretary of Treasury would listen loud and clear because they could take this into their own hands and do what I think is appropriate from their perspective."

Responded White House press secretary Dana Perino: "There's no appetite for that." She said it was up to Congress to act.

Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd, D-Conn., was even more downbeat, calling the possibility of reaching agreement "remote."

"I don't see how in the next few days this is going to move forward," Dodd told reporters. Still, he added, "That does not mean that there are not opportunities." He suggested that the Federal Reserve could possibly step up to the job.

The difficulties of striking a deal on the package before a new president and a new Congress with expanded Democratic majorities take office appeared to be too great to overcome. The deadlock persisted even as the heads of General Motors, Ford and Chrysler returned for a second day to plead for relief and as their congressional backers urged colleagues not to punish them for past mistakes.

General Motors Corp. CEO Rick Wagoner told the House Financial Services Committee that collapse of the U.S. auto industry could lead to a loss of 3 million jobs within the first year and ripple throughout communities around the nation.

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In sometimes contentious testimony, Wagoner was pressed on when GM would run out of money if the loans weren't extended.

He said he couldn't say precisely, but that the company now was burning through "$5 billion each month."

Still, with the $25 billion emergency package, "We think we have a good shot to make it through this," Wagoner said. He said he anticipated that, if the package is approved, GM would qualify for about $10 billion to $12 billion of the money.

President George W. Bush and Republicans in Congress have been reluctant to use the Treasury Department's $700 billion financial bailout program to finance the loans.

The White House wants Congress to draw the $25 billion from an Energy Department program established to encourage production of fuel-efficient cars.

Perino said Wednesday the administration supports legislation to authorize just that, but will not go along with the proposal by Democratic leaders that an additional $25 billion be taken from the government's existing $700 billion Wall Street bailout fund.

"The purpose of the $700 billion was clearly intended for financial institutions, and we wanted to keep that whole," Perino said. .

If Congress quits without taking any action, "then the Congress will bear responsibility for anything that happens in the next couple of months during their long vacation," Perino said.

Congressional Republicans battled uphill to try to pick up Democratic support for the White House plan to allow auto companies to draw emergency loans from the $25 billion fuel-efficiency fund.

Democratic leaders have rejected such a course, and environmentalists don't want that money used for anything other than its intended purpose.

But the GOP approach, being crafted by Sens. Kit Bond, R-Mo., and George Voinovich, R-Ohio, would require the automakers to plow back into the fund repaid loans, interest and income from equity stakes.

The proposal, outlined in a position paper obtained by The Associated Press, is intended to satisfy Democrats concerned about raiding the fuel-efficiency loan program. Since auto makers would not be tapping those funds immediately, supporters argue, the money would be restored by the time they were needed.

During the House hearing Wednesday, Rep. Brad Sherman, D-Calif., asked the three auto chiefs seated at the witness table before him to raise their hands if they had come to Washington on commercial airliners. No hands went up. Then he asked if any planned to sell their corporate jets. Again, no hands went up.

Sherman and Rep. Gary Ackerman, D-N.Y., told the auto executives they were having a hard time justifying to their constituents bailing out companies whose chiefs fly around in expensive private jets.

Ackerman said there was "a delicious irony in seeing private luxury jets flying into Washington, D.C., and people coming off them with tin cups in their hands. ... It's almost like seeing a guy show up at the soup kitchen in high hat and tuxedo."

A Senate vote on an automotive bailout plan, which would also extend jobless benefits, could come as early as Thursday, but it clearly lacks the necessary support to advance.

___

Associated Press writers Julie Hirschfeld Davis and Sam Hananel contributed to this story.

(This version CORRECTS quote to "private luxury jets."))

WASHINGTON — Top Senate Democrats suggested Wednesday that a bill to rescue Detroit's Big Three automakers was stalled and challenged the Bush administration to take steps to save the industry i...
WASHINGTON — Top Senate Democrats suggested Wednesday that a bill to rescue Detroit's Big Three automakers was stalled and challenged the Bush administration to take steps to save the industry i...
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UK carmakers ask for aid as sales drop
Britain’s auto industry presses the government for tax breaks, special liquidity arrangements and a state-backed loan facility in order to face ‘unprecedented circumstances’ - Nov-19

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:47 PM on 11/19/2008

Ask they might, receive they might not. Let's wait and see. Who needs British cars, anyway?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:38 PM on 11/19/2008
- BuckeyeGal I'm a Fan of BuckeyeGal 4 fans permalink
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I think the British do.
Such a downer you are.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:10 PM on 11/19/2008
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Toyota profits plunge 69%
By Jonathan Soble in Tokyo and John Reed in London

Published: November 6 2008 07:52 | Last updated: November 6 2008 19:03

Toyota Motor reported a second-quarter 69 per cent plunge in its net profits on Thursday and warned it would barely make money in the second half owing to falling US and European vehicle sales and a debilitating surge in the yen.


Cheers!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:45 PM on 11/19/2008
- munki I'm a Fan of munki 34 fans permalink
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are they asking bailout?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 PM on 11/19/2008
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 269 fans permalink

They get interest free loans already. Duh!... They operate from a protected market where their cars sell there for twice as much as here... They dont make profits here or pay taxes ... They sell low here to take market share and your job. The Japan government pays for their employee healthcare and their research and development. Japan plays like China and the rest of the world to win for their country.. no one else does free trade!

Major Industries are protected and cherished.


Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 PM on 11/19/2008

Not that I have heard of. Why would a company that makes money have to ask for a bailout?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:35 PM on 11/19/2008
- munki I'm a Fan of munki 34 fans permalink
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I was being a bit sarcastic.­..
why are our automaker asking so much...
so CEO can continue to enjoy their perks?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 PM on 11/19/2008

Did you notice how they are still MAKING money and NOT LOSING $5 billion per month like GM?

Cool! Now that's a well managed company.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 PM on 11/19/2008
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I live in NC where if you have a job you are very lucky. I was one of the lucky ones until last Friday (making a modest salary of about 40k a year) and was feeling like my cup was half full (I still do by the way I have a wonderful daughter and parents both in their 80"s and have good health). I was and still live with in my means. I think WE as the baby's of the world have become VERY spoiled. That being said! I think it's a shame for Congress and House our public servants are not doing more to take care of the people that have given them their jobs. Instead they take payoffs from lobbyist and are not making all these CEO's that have proven they are nothing but thieves accountable, why not help out the BIG 3 or is Paulson afraid that his banking cronies will through a little tantrum because that will be more money they can't steal from we the tax payers. It's time American's to stand and say ENOUGH is ENOUGH!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:41 PM on 11/19/2008
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 269 fans permalink

Wallstreet would not like anything better than to get their percentage on selling the parts off to the Communist Chinese, Dubai and the Saudis. Japan and their fleet of lobbyist would like nothing more than much less competition.

regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 PM on 11/19/2008

The Chinese are no more communist these days than a frozen pizza is gourmet food.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 AM on 11/20/2008
- dnegri I'm a Fan of dnegri 134 fans permalink

In case my last post didn't get posted, I'll summarize it: this is all part of a Republican strategy to destroy the UAW, to ruin north-central Blue states economy even further, to make the Dems look bad, and get
more foreign automobile plants in southern states (and more congresional districts to go with the expected population shifts). It has nothing to do with economics, just politics, GOP style....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:36 PM on 11/19/2008
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AMEN!! This is Union Busting pure and simple. And a way to get rid of the middle class who vote Dem.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:41 PM on 11/19/2008
- Gasparilla I'm a Fan of Gasparilla 30 fans permalink

That's true, you see the White House press secretary in this story saying the Democrats will be responsible for anything that happens. And two of the biggest opponents of any aid are the two Republican senators from Alabama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:58 PM on 11/19/2008
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To all who say let them fail - here is a reality check for you.

http://www.realtytrac.com/home.asp

Go there and put in the zipcode 48092 - This is Macomb County, MI - Home of GM and the Reagan Democrats.

These families did not lose their homes due to over-buying - they lost their jobs. They are my family and my friends.

This WILL spread throughout the country. But it doesnt have to........­.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:26 PM on 11/19/2008
- suemag I'm a Fan of suemag 9 fans permalink
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There are plenty of unemployed people in this country now who worked for companes that were not mismanaged, just victims of the economy. I feel sorry for the auto workers who have lost their jobs because their companies were mismanaged and their executives are greedy. Someone has to be held accountable, though.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:30 PM on 11/19/2008
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 269 fans permalink

Toyota 's sales are down now just as much. They have piled up lots of debt selling cars here at no profit to get market share.. but they get interest free loans. Ford was making a profit before the economy went to H3LL.

regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:34 PM on 11/19/2008
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That is not the point Sue, this will wash over the ENTIRE country.

3 million jobs that pay for middle class homes and insurance and taxes.

Another 3-5 million to follow. This is not a Detroit problem. This is a National crisis.

Look at those neighborhoods real good, because yours may look like that in a year.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:40 PM on 11/19/2008

Why would I be unhappy about falling home prices, again? Why would you? Do you really want to pay more for your home than necessary? Do you really want conditions where everybody has to take out a suicide loan just to get a home? How did that work out for you so far? Are you happy with the result of home prices being 50% higher than they should have been?

Sorry for your family and friends, but, you see, the automotive industry brought this onto itself. The US, as a whole, brought the credit crisis onto itself. None of these had to happen, all could have been avoided. All it would have taken was some collective common sense and a little less greed. And common sense now dictates to let the automobile industry work itself out of the hole that it has dug for itself.

If your county is hit harder than others, well, to the rest of us that can still think straight that's statistics. If you need support, I don't mind paying higher taxes to get you unemployment and social security payments as long as you need them. That's what taxes are for, to collectively help all of us and especially those who need it most. But GM, Chrysler and Ford do not need our help. They need to learn a lesson.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:02 PM on 11/19/2008
- suemag I'm a Fan of suemag 9 fans permalink
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Gee, you must be as stupid or ignorant as 'breakingnews' thinks I am, because I agree with you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 PM on 11/19/2008
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 269 fans permalink

gee the workers kids will learn the lesson. The people who did a bad job in detroit are retired and living in mansions.. you will not teach them anything.


Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:20 PM on 11/19/2008
- munki I'm a Fan of munki 34 fans permalink
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WOW! PRIVATE LUXURY JETS...
Our President don't get that and "President" is more important position than they are...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:21 PM on 11/19/2008
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 269 fans permalink

Our President flies arund in the most expenesive 747 ever built and he has two of them.


regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:19 PM on 11/19/2008

Hmmm... he is the head of state of 300 million people 24/7. GM has over 1000 times less employees.­..and owns them for no more than eight hours a day, 250 days a year. One can't quite compare that, now can one?

Hmmm... I forgot, YOU can. And you even think you can get away with it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 AM on 11/20/2008
- Mikeeee I'm a Fan of Mikeeee 70 fans permalink

A lot of reaganomics being spouted here. It's the everybody's fault, unions, government, workers, everyone and everything except the management.
Oh wait, they've changed their minds, government is good, government has money, good government, give us money, but stay out of our business!!
There was a study in the mid 80's comparing salaries between Europe and US ceo's.
The head of GM was getting $5,000,000 a yr. Head of Mercedes-Benz, $985,000 a yr. Very interesting reading indeed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:20 PM on 11/19/2008

Not me. It's the managements fault and they need to fix it. If they can't let's be conservative and let them go bankrupt. Works for me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:41 PM on 11/19/2008
- betz55 I'm a Fan of betz55 39 fans permalink

WHOAH ! Back up heree a moment. Didn't we just here last month that if the banking system didn't get our money we would have an economic meltdown ? Now we're being told that if we don't bailout the deaf, dumb, and blind american auto industry it will lead to an economic meltdown? AGAIN ?
LET THEM FAIL...LET THEM FAIL....LE­T THEM FAIL....LE­T THEM FAIL....LE­T THEM FAIL....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:13 PM on 11/19/2008
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 269 fans permalink

We are having an economic melt down... it started 3 years ago. look around . No private sector job creation in 8 years.

Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:15 PM on 11/19/2008

That's nonsense. There has been plenty of job creation all over the world. Especially in China. And if you happen to be an academic it wasn't that bad in the US, either. Why do you think I keep telling you that you need to get an education?

Cheers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:48 PM on 11/19/2008
- 1dogs2 I'm a Fan of 1dogs2 132 fans permalink

And what is to become of the 1 in 10 Americans whose job is directly or indirectly related to the auto industry? Have you considered the economic and social consequences of perhaps 25 million more unemployed Americans? I'm fine with letting the top management of these companies fail. They've earned it. But the millions of people who work for them haven't.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:02 AM on 11/22/2008
- chevyval I'm a Fan of chevyval 14 fans permalink

Eventually we won't need all the oil that we spend millions of dollars
on (including the war) because we won't be able to afford cars and
the roads we drive on will be unsafe. Misguided people who voted for
misguided short sighted politicians. Greed (gas guzzling greed) is one
of the seven deadly sins.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:12 PM on 11/19/2008

Why has no one thought of this? The oil companies have had "their back scratched" by the auto makers for decades now. The oil companies ARE the reason that the auto makers are in so much trouble! Why not "persuade" the oil companies to "give" the auto makers a portion of the BILLIONS of dollars in profits that they have been making these last several years (I'm sure they could "pony up" enough to get the automakers WELL on the road to recovery!) If the oil companies refused, Congress could pass a windfall profits tax on the oil companies that would make the "gift" to the auto makers look like small change! Why should the taxpayers have to pay for this TWICE? (Once to the oil companies, and the second time to "bailout" the auto makers!) Let's do some thinking "OUTSIDE THE BOX" for a change!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:08 PM on 11/19/2008
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I am all for that, but try getting a Repub on board. They will be screaming "Speard the Wealth"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:10 PM on 11/19/2008

With the coming new "layout" of Congress, the Repub's are resigned to just sitting in the corner!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:17 PM on 11/19/2008
- munki I'm a Fan of munki 34 fans permalink
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You are the one.. RUN for Senate!
We will back you... Let the Oil Company to bail them out!
Oil and Auto industry did not allow our city to build public transportation many years ago...
We are now paying higher $$$ to undo the damage - building it NOW...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:16 PM on 11/19/2008
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- + suemag See Profile I'm a Fan of suemag I'm a fan of this user permalink

And then what? They've had years to re-tool and make more efficient cars, but they're in bed with the oil companies. The times, they are a-changin'!

Reply Favorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:02 PM on 11/19/2008
**********
The Big 3 have spent the last 3 years re-organizing. Cutting wages 25-40%, renegotiating UAW contracts, re-tooling the plants to build the fuel efficient cars of 2009 and 2010. The new Volt will revolutionize the auto industry.

Do you want to take the risk of having 3 million MORE unemployed in the next 6 months? We already lost 1.5 this year alone and the 4th quarter isnt over yet.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:06 PM on 11/19/2008
- suemag I'm a Fan of suemag 9 fans permalink
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If they do bail them out there had better be a t remendous amount of oversight attached.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:09 PM on 11/19/2008
- munki I'm a Fan of munki 34 fans permalink
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YES YES YES and we all should be there to monitor it...
First... Executives should be replaced..­. No brainer to run a company...
There's tons of brains... government­... hmmmm don't ask... I am not a politician

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:31 AM on 11/20/2008
- munki I'm a Fan of munki 34 fans permalink
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Cutting wages? Did they cut the Executives? That is what they do in Japan...
Fair is fair, everyone takes the responsibi­lities...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:01 PM on 11/19/2008
- Tweet I'm a Fan of Tweet 10 fans permalink
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So you thought the North finally won the Civil War with the election of Obama?

Not so fast.

The AP points out that much of the Congressional opposition to the Detroit bailout comes from representatives of Southern states. Why? Because the imports have taken advantage of the South's anti-union attitudes to build plants in South Carolina, Mississippi and Alabama. It seems Southern congressmen figure that if Detroit goes down, more imports will move in - in the South.

I don't approve of a bailout which doesn't require, and oversee, major changes in the companies' management, goals and methods. I don't expect they will agree to any of that. It's possible that the companies could come out of bankruptcy more competitive. It's just about definite that bankruptcy will destroy the last major American manufacturing unions and leave 600,000 people without promised pensions and health care (and that's just the current retirees). Millions of jobs will likely disappear. And if bankruptcy doesn't work, or doesn't happen, we could be looking at the collapse of the world economy. The Dow's below 7000. We are fast approaching the point at which there will be no buyers for stocks people want to sell. And that's what triggered the Great Depression.

So the South, with nihilistic glee, declares war against the world, and fires the first cannon shot at the new Fort Sumter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:05 PM on 11/19/2008
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 269 fans permalink

The south is not building cars. It assembles cars. The lowest value added component.­. 6 hours of labor. The important, high dollar work is imported.


Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:13 PM on 11/19/2008
- munki I'm a Fan of munki 34 fans permalink
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Hmmm interestin­g... I heard Tennessee governor talking about building Toyota Hybrid... the SUV, Camery, etc. there... will check...
I do know some parts are brought in from Japan...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:03 PM on 11/19/2008
- suemag I'm a Fan of suemag 9 fans permalink
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Ackerman said there was "a delicious irony in seeing private luxury jets flying into Washington, D.C., and people coming off them with tin cups in their hands. ... It's almost like seeing a guy show up at the soup kitchen in high hat and tuxedo."

Ironic and stupid- these guys just don't get it!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:57 PM on 11/19/2008

If Shakespeare were alive and had seen the infomercial/movie "Who Killed the Electric Car?" he would surely file a libel lawsuit against the big three auto, the oil companies, their partners in crime, namely, the American Petroleum Institute, the Auto Manufacturers Association, (Andrew Card, President), until he was appointed to a lofty position with the Bush criminal syndicate and Administration Monopoly. These assassinators not only killed the electric car a.k.a.. EV1, developed by the General Motors Corp. lease to the residents of California due to the EPA Guidelines passed during the middle nineties, which was also killed by the aforementioned assassination squad. They conspired together use the identical modus operandi that the conspirators used in Shakespeare's Julius Cesar, to further their monetary and neferris behavior to reach their pinnacle of power. Should there had been a trial, and should I have been on the Jury, I would have worked tirelessly to find the defendants charged, Guilty! With zero latitude if leanancy were to be brought forth.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:43 PM on 11/19/2008
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Here is a question for all you itty bitty green car folks:

How are obese people going to fit in those little tiny cars? We have a national healthy crisis with 35% of our population being obese. They will not fit behind the wheel. You know there will be lawsuits.

And who will build the trucks necessary to drive our goods to market and for the construction boss to drive to the job site? Those will not be "green" vehicles or have 60mpg

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:41 PM on 11/19/2008
- munki I'm a Fan of munki 34 fans permalink
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I would say... I will go on diet and start eating healthy food... exercise..­.
Go GREEN

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:44 PM on 11/19/2008
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Oh please, the chubbies are not going to like it when they cannot fit both cheeks onto the car seat.

They dont have the discipline to back off from the Cheetos...­.........

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:54 PM on 11/19/2008
- TheOpus I'm a Fan of TheOpus 4 fans permalink

Fat ? ride a bike.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:50 PM on 11/19/2008
- rubinoff I'm a Fan of rubinoff 54 fans permalink

This bailout situation has to be the biggest heist of the century.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:51 PM on 11/19/2008
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It's not a bailout is a loan to get them past the next 90 days.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:55 PM on 11/19/2008
- suemag I'm a Fan of suemag 9 fans permalink
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Who will build the trucks...? Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, Saab, etc.. same as they do now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:00 PM on 11/19/2008
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So it's ok to you that we wont build our own cars and trucks.

I bet you BlTCH about the Chinese cr-ap at Wal-mart.

'Amazing

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:02 PM on 11/19/2008
- Viper I'm a Fan of Viper 269 fans permalink

Yes, we dont do clothes, we dont do TVs, we dont do computers, we dont feed ourselves any more, we dont do software, we dont have jobs for our engineers, we dont do appliances and the list goes on.. lets just add Autos the list... but will will assmeble some foreign cars here and feel Proud of ourselves.­.


Be glad our number one import to China is scrap. They send us computers and we send them scrap!
USA USA USA USA... LOL


Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:09 PM on 11/19/2008
- suemag I'm a Fan of suemag 9 fans permalink
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Have you ever sat in a Mini Cooper? They're roomier than they look.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:04 PM on 11/19/2008
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Have you ever seen a 300lb woman sit in one? Come to the Detroit Auto Show in January, it aint pretty. The chubbies will need a sckoosh more room......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:08 PM on 11/19/2008
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