California Supreme Court To Hear Cases Challenging Gay Marriage Ban

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LISA LEFF | November 19, 2008 09:13 PM EST | AP

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Rev. Amos Brown, a national board member of the NAACP, raises his hands as he speaks to a large crowd of supporters of same-sex marriage, as they cheer in front of San Francisco City Hall on Saturday, Nov. 15, 2008. Thousands of demonstrators gathered to listen to speakers and protest the passage of Proposition 8, a ballot measure amending California's constitution to ban same-sex marriage. The event is part of a simultaneous protest planned in in hundreds of communities. (AP Photo/Darryl Bush)

SAN FRANCISCO — California's highest court agreed Wednesday to hear several legal challenges to the state's new ban on same-sex marriage but refused to allow gay couples to resume marrying before it rules.

The California Supreme Court accepted three lawsuits seeking to nullify Proposition 8, a voter-approved constitutional amendment that overruled the court's decision in May that legalized gay marriage.

All three cases claim the measure abridges the civil rights of a vulnerable minority group. They argue that voters alone did not have the authority to enact such a significant constitutional change.

As is its custom when it takes up cases, the court elaborated little. However, the justices did say they want to address what effect, if any, a ruling upholding the amendment would have on the estimated 18,000 same-sex marriages that were sanctioned in California before Election Day.

Gay rights groups and local governments petitioning to overturn the ban were joined by the measure's sponsors and Attorney General Jerry Brown in urging the Supreme Court to consider whether Proposition 8 passes legal muster.

The initiative's opponents had also asked the court to grant a stay of the measure, which would have allowed gay marriages to begin again while the justices considered the cases. The court denied that request.

The justices directed Brown and lawyers for the Yes on 8 campaign to submit arguments by Dec. 19 on why the ballot initiative should not be nullified. It said lawyers for the plaintiffs, who include same-sex couples who did not wed before the election, must respond before Jan. 5.

Oral arguments could be scheduled as early as March, according to court spokeswoman Lynn Holton.

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"This is welcome news. The matter of Proposition 8 should be resolved thoughtfully and without delay," Brown said in a statement.

Both opponents and supporters of Proposition 8 expressed confidence Wednesday that their arguments would prevail. But they also agreed that the cases present the court's seven justices _ six of whom voted to review the challenges _ with complex questions that have few precedents in state case law.

Although more than two dozen states have similar amendments, some of which have survived similar lawsuits, none were approved by voters in a place where gay marriage already was legal.

Neither were any approved in a state where the high court had put sexual orientation in the same protected legal class as race and religion, which the California Supreme Court did when it rendered its 4-3 decision that made same-sex marriage legal in May.

Opponents of the ban argue that voters improperly abrogated the judiciary's authority by stripping same-sex couples of the right to wed after the high court earlier ruled it was discriminatory to prohibit gay men and lesbians from marrying.

"If given effect, Proposition 8 would work a dramatic, substantive change to our Constitution's 'underlying principles' of individual equality on a scale and scope never previously condoned by this court," lawyers for the same-sex couples stated in their petition.

The measure represents such a sweeping change that it constitutes a constitutional revision as opposed to an amendment, the documents say. The distinction would have required the ban's backers to obtain approval from two-thirds of both houses of the California Legislature before submitting it to voters.

Over the past century, the California Supreme Court has heard nine cases challenging legislative acts or ballot initiatives as improper revisions. The court eventually invalidated three of the measures, according to the gay rights group Lambda Legal.

Andrew Pugno, legal counsel for the Yes on 8 campaign, said he doubts the court will buy the revision argument in the case of the gay marriage ban because the plaintiffs would have to prove the measure alters the state's basic governmental framework.

Joel Franklin, a constitutional law professor at Monterey College of Law, said that even though the court rejected similar procedural arguments when it upheld amendments reinstating the death penalty and limiting property taxes, those cases do not represent as much of a fundamental change as Proposition 8.

"Those amendments applied universally to all Californians," Franklin said. "This is a situation where you are removing rights from a particular group of citizens, a class of individuals the court has said is entitled to constitutional protection. That is a structural change."

The trio of cases the court accepted were filed by six same-sex couples who have not yet wed, a Los Angeles lesbian couple who were among the first to tie the knot on June 16 and 11 cities and counties, led by the city of San Francisco.

SAN FRANCISCO — California's highest court agreed Wednesday to hear several legal challenges to the state's new ban on same-sex marriage but refused to allow gay couples to resume marrying befor...
SAN FRANCISCO — California's highest court agreed Wednesday to hear several legal challenges to the state's new ban on same-sex marriage but refused to allow gay couples to resume marrying befor...
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- Smith808 I'm a Fan of Smith808 11 fans permalink

There is something inherently wrong with excluding non-mormon family members from witnessing their own relatives get married in the temple. My partner and her mother were left out of witnessing the joy of her own brother's/son's marriage because of "inconsistent" attendance. Imagine THAT in a Catholic church!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:29 AM on 11/20/2008

It's more important for those BEING married to feel like their union is special than for any given family member to be there to see them tie the knot.

Nobody forces people to marry in the temple. My own parents couldn't attend my wedding, but you know what? I'm glad I got married in the temple, and so were they.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:37 AM on 11/20/2008
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I hope you're not my cousin.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 AM on 11/20/2008
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The Salt Lake City Temple?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:40 AM on 11/20/2008
- Imago I'm a Fan of Imago 107 fans permalink
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"It's more important for those BEING married to feel like their union is special than for any given family member to be there to see them tie the knot."

That's really sad. When I got married, the union WAS special because it was about me, my husband and our families. That was the most important point!

I can't imagine being a part of a religion that would make me choose between it and my family at such an important moment.

So much for family values...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 AM on 11/20/2008
- Smith808 I'm a Fan of Smith808 11 fans permalink

I guess that's what wedding photos are for..."Loo­k ma, there's me, our neighbor, the janitor and...wher­e are you? oops!"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 AM on 11/20/2008

Mormons are nothing more than a cult!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 AM on 11/20/2008
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All religions are cults.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:45 AM on 11/20/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 34 fans permalink
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yeah, that mother teresa was a real troublemaker.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 AM on 11/20/2008
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She was a closet Atheist.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 AM on 11/20/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 34 fans permalink
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that's because those 1000 women are brainwashed.

i know many of them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 AM on 11/20/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 34 fans permalink
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i support every person's right to worship any religion they wish to. it's in their bill of rights.

i will never support a church that tries to take away my civil rights and publicly calls me a sinner.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:25 AM on 11/20/2008

I think the consensus is that everyone on earth is a sinner, so don't feel too picked on.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:26 AM on 11/20/2008
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No such thing as sin.

Now Evil, that's a different story.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:30 AM on 11/20/2008

You're pathetic..­. that's an offensive assumption!

Those are the types of attacks we will soon challenge your organization with in court.

If there is one thing us highly-educated, DINK's can match, it's the obscene wealth of the Mormon church... If we get our way, we will litigate your organization back to the Dark Ages.

You brought the fight to the wrong group of people. We've been fight hatred much longer than the Mormons have existed, so we're very good at getting revenge!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:37 AM on 11/20/2008
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sin is a lie.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:43 AM on 11/20/2008
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"Thou shalt not bear false witness."

It was not a suggestion, citizen.

Ours is a secular society, with church and state separated.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

PROTESTant

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:40 PM on 11/20/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 34 fans permalink
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"whatever other group you want to make up some grievance for, they can all have full fellowship and standing in the church".


oh, COME ON !!!!

can a woman give a blessing ? -- NO.
(mormons think that god talks directly through a man giving them a "blessing") !

does the woman have final say in the family ? -- NO WAY !
(the man has final say on everything).

can a woman hold the priesthood ? --- NO WAY ! NEVER !
(women are 2nd class citizens good for 3 things: boinking, cleaning and cooking).

can a woman ever become a bishop ? -- HELL NO -- when hell freezes over.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:16 AM on 11/20/2008
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If an adult woman choses to be a LDS member, you must support that choice, no matter how poor (or self-destructive) it might be.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:20 AM on 11/20/2008

If you were to ask 1000 LDS women if they felt like second class citizens within the church, or felt like they were being held back in any way, my guess is that 990 of them would say no.

Women have great opportunities to lead, to make decisions, to teach, to deliver sermons, etc.

The church celebrates women. It doesn't subjugate them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:24 AM on 11/20/2008
- Imago I'm a Fan of Imago 107 fans permalink
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Questions for you:

In the Mormon church, polygamy was once a standard, accepted practice.

Now the Mormon church seems have jumped on the "one man, one woman" bandwagon.

If the definition of marriage has changed within your own church, why is other change so frightening to you?

What has the Mormon church's position been on divorce? Is it the same as it was when the church was founded?

Marriage has been an ever-evolving institution since its inception. It originally was about property, women were chattel, in most cultures.

And, ultimately, why should this matter to you? What business is it of yours who marries who? How can it in any real way impact your life and your marriage? Really? Past the rhetoric -- how does my marriage, gay or straight, affect yours?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 AM on 11/20/2008
- bsc I'm a Fan of bsc 11 fans permalink

the church brainwashes everyone. you are an example

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:31 AM on 11/20/2008
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Really? You personally *know* 1000 LDS women?

And of course the indoctrinated don't feel like second class citizens, just as a frog in a pot of water on a stove doesn't feel the heat that's killing him if it's turned up ever so slowly, one degree at a time.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

PROTESTant

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 AM on 11/20/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 235 fans permalink

I'm sure the women wearing burqas would say all is well too.

Same with the women who have had their parts removed.

Nice critical thinking.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:53 PM on 11/20/2008
- Smith808 I'm a Fan of Smith808 11 fans permalink

Proud Mormon,

A polygamist still has a right to marry - just not a harem. Gays and lesbians do not have that right in CA. Polygamy is a "lifestyle;" homosexuality is an identity.

You are equating a "lifestyle" with core sexual orientation - as core an identity to me as heterosexuality is to you. The perception of homosexuality as based on a "lifestyle" or a "choice" is often the logic behind these comparisons (if gays can marry, so can ____(INSERT random group of stupid idiots). Marriage equality is not a lifestyle - but "marriage" is. If you want to criticize "behavior," you should criticize BAD marriages. Do not compare my desire to engage in a monogamous lifelong commitment to the nutcases in St. George who marry entire family lines of sisters.

Please, would you like to help me with MY "lifestyle?" #1) remind me to mail out the Netflix video #2) Please tell my grandparents YOU will now be taking over doctor visits & other official business (it would help if you spoke Vietnamese, otherwise, dramatic hand and facial gestures will work for the simple stuff). #4) Please tell my neighbor (again) to stop letting his dog crap in my parking space #5) please take over my 65-hour work week so you can pay off my college loans. #6) I like my coffee piping hot and strong in the morning...­chop chop.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 AM on 11/20/2008
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Mr. Smith,

our Mormon friend needs to watch BECAUSE THE BIBLE TELLS ME SO. But that might require our Mormon friend accepts the Scientific Method and empirical evidence, rather than just parrot dogma and fear grounded in ignorance.

Being gay is an *orientation,* pure and simple. It is not the same as deciding whether or not one takes up skiing as opposed to fly fishing, nor deciding to decorate one's house with antiques as opposed to modern art deco.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

PROTESTant

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 PM on 11/20/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 34 fans permalink
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it's a den of sin.

and a lot of LDS members who opposed prop 8 have left the "church".

membership is dwindling, and it's going to dwindle even more in the future.

they placed the spotlight directly on themselves -- and now people SEE the REAL ugliness of the LDS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:12 AM on 11/20/2008
- M1 I'm a Fan of M1 36 fans permalink
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Rememer proudmormon, if you come here.....w­e go there! No more Mr. Nice Gay!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 AM on 11/20/2008

I didn't realize this was an exclusively gay community.

Be my guest to attend services on Sunday.

http://maps.lds.org/

My guess is that you'll find a group of people that are NOT obsessed with gay marriage, and the topic probably won't even be discussed. (Unless there's a roiling crowd protesting outside, I guess)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:07 AM on 11/20/2008

How disingenuous you are... so, we can add "deceitful" to your list of sins.

We won't be bringing it to your church anymore. We will be attacking your organization in Court and challenging your right to commit hate crimes in the name of religious freedom.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:25 AM on 11/20/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 34 fans permalink
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there is no "god".

i'm not that gullable honey.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 AM on 11/20/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 34 fans permalink
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they hate gays, blacks, and strong, powerful women.

they keep their woman suppressed at all times.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:55 AM on 11/20/2008

Are you just venting at this point, or are you trying to flood the page so other serious discussions are obscured?

The Mormon church has a uniform standard for personal worthiness, which can be met by anyone and everyone. Gays, blacks, powerful women, whatever other group you want to make up some grievance for, they can all have full fellowship and standing in the church.

Jesus doesn't turn anyone away, but he expects people to follow him, and not the other way around.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 AM on 11/20/2008
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You are certainly welcome to believe what you want, but you have no right to insist other Americans follow the demands of your superstitions.

You may find this hard to believe, but I am very sympathetic to the LDS.

But the church must stop this power grab; it may backfire and create great animosity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 AM on 11/20/2008

Self-righteous and delusional­... you're the only one who knows the "truth", but you talk with a forked-tongue.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:30 AM on 11/20/2008
- Smith808 I'm a Fan of Smith808 11 fans permalink

Don't disguise the Church's interest in gays repenting, "becoming" straight, and bearing a bus-load of babies...
this isn't Jesus' path - it's yours.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:35 AM on 11/20/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 34 fans permalink
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mormons need to learn TOLERANCE, and to love their children UNCONDITIONALLY.

jesus would be disgusted with mormons.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 AM on 11/20/2008

Does God love unconditionally?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 AM on 11/20/2008
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She would if she existed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:54 AM on 11/20/2008

Not your God! It's obvious by your actions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 AM on 11/20/2008

You are a perfect example why gay people hate the religious community. You are obsessed with homosexuality, and almost nothing else.

Why don't you spend your money and your time fighting hunger or poverty? You might actually benefit someone rather than publicly denigrating people and stirring up discontent.

Is that what your religion is about? Is that what your God expects? I don't know how you sleep at night knowing the number of lives you have ruined; the number of kids who have committed su*cide due to your hateful insensitivity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:17 AM on 11/20/2008

Christ would be ashamed of ALL modern religious people! They are far from Christ-like; just the opposite.

Christ asked people to "love one another" and to show tolerance to the most despised of society; for that, they hung him on a cross.

Religious people are only interested in using the Bible to excuse their bigotry and intolerance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:21 AM on 11/20/2008
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The holy Proud Mormon is so ful of hate for homosexuals he's been hear all night.....­all night....a­rguing with us! THAT'S RELIGION..­.....There it is folks.....­.the wisdom of religion..­..naked for all to see...... hateful...­divisive, shallow...­..petty...­.. WE ARE BETTER THAN THIS PEOPLE!

GOOD NIGHT MY DEAR GAY AND LESBIAN FRIENDS...­. STAND TALL!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:48 AM on 11/20/2008
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And you want to know why???? Because it's my life!!!! It's my life!!!! It's not your life, it's not your equality!!!! It's not anything you have to lose!!!! It's something I've got to lose!!!! And if you think we will rest while you throw your temper tantrums..­....watch us!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!­!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:39 AM on 11/20/2008

Who's throwing the temper tantrum?

My own personal happiness and self worth isn't derived from social acceptance. I'm sorry that yours hinges upon it so much.

I have a friend with two brothers that are gay. It destroyed their family. They can't even talk about it, because it's too painful for their parents. It's like a gaping, festering wound for everyone involved.

Killing Prop 8 won't make those parents love their sons. It won't make that pain go away. I wonder how much of this hate coming from the gay community has nothing to do with the LDS church, and never has.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:45 AM on 11/20/2008
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Bigotry destroyed your friends family.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 AM on 11/20/2008

None of asked for your or anyone else "acceptanc­e".... we are attempting to secure our rights.

You're naive if you don't understand a "struggle" from a "tantrum".­.. read American history for once and you will quickly realize that people are willing to give-up everything, including family ties and their very lives to secure their liberty and human dignity.

No one is asking you to be gay, nor to defend the families who can't get past their bigotry, even for their own children. Your intentions are transparent!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 AM on 11/20/2008

It tragic that you don't realize the root cause of that festering wound.... it is rooted in bigotry, promoted by religious zealots.

I should know, my father is a retired Evangelical Minister, who destroyed my life with and demoralized my self-worth with the vitriol he spewed from the pulpit.

Don't blame the two sons, blame the parents who could get past their bias long enough to love their own children.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 AM on 11/20/2008

My father is a retired Evangelical Minister who demoralized me from the pulpit and destroyed my self esteem as a young man.

At 18yrs, he gave me $40 and suitcase; said he and mother were moving to Oregon and I was not welcome to come. I had 30 days to find a job and a place to live....

Bigotry destroys families, not gay people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:09 AM on 11/20/2008
- mercury613 I'm a Fan of mercury613 40 fans permalink
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"Killing Prop 8 won't make those parents love their sons."

No, it won't. Only those parents opening their eyes and moving past their programmed bigotry will accomplish that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 AM on 11/20/2008
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Come on PROUD MORMON! You out of energy all ready! I've just begun you hatemonger! Let's go all night!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 AM on 11/20/2008
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You will never have the last word on this ProudMormon because my hate for you is far deeper than your hate for homosexuals! Until my last breath I will meet you at the gates of hell!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 AM on 11/20/2008

I'm sorry to hear that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 AM on 11/20/2008
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Yeh sure you are....you love it! Come on Proud Mormon....­.let's hear how much hate you got!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:44 AM on 11/20/2008

I'll be right there by your side, MarkInEugene

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 AM on 11/20/2008
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