California Supreme Court To Hear Cases Challenging Gay Marriage Ban

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LISA LEFF | November 19, 2008 09:13 PM EST | AP

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Rev. Amos Brown, a national board member of the NAACP, raises his hands as he speaks to a large crowd of supporters of same-sex marriage, as they cheer in front of San Francisco City Hall on Saturday, Nov. 15, 2008. Thousands of demonstrators gathered to listen to speakers and protest the passage of Proposition 8, a ballot measure amending California's constitution to ban same-sex marriage. The event is part of a simultaneous protest planned in in hundreds of communities. (AP Photo/Darryl Bush)

SAN FRANCISCO — California's highest court agreed Wednesday to hear several legal challenges to the state's new ban on same-sex marriage but refused to allow gay couples to resume marrying before it rules.

The California Supreme Court accepted three lawsuits seeking to nullify Proposition 8, a voter-approved constitutional amendment that overruled the court's decision in May that legalized gay marriage.

All three cases claim the measure abridges the civil rights of a vulnerable minority group. They argue that voters alone did not have the authority to enact such a significant constitutional change.

As is its custom when it takes up cases, the court elaborated little. However, the justices did say they want to address what effect, if any, a ruling upholding the amendment would have on the estimated 18,000 same-sex marriages that were sanctioned in California before Election Day.

Gay rights groups and local governments petitioning to overturn the ban were joined by the measure's sponsors and Attorney General Jerry Brown in urging the Supreme Court to consider whether Proposition 8 passes legal muster.

The initiative's opponents had also asked the court to grant a stay of the measure, which would have allowed gay marriages to begin again while the justices considered the cases. The court denied that request.

The justices directed Brown and lawyers for the Yes on 8 campaign to submit arguments by Dec. 19 on why the ballot initiative should not be nullified. It said lawyers for the plaintiffs, who include same-sex couples who did not wed before the election, must respond before Jan. 5.

Oral arguments could be scheduled as early as March, according to court spokeswoman Lynn Holton.

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"This is welcome news. The matter of Proposition 8 should be resolved thoughtfully and without delay," Brown said in a statement.

Both opponents and supporters of Proposition 8 expressed confidence Wednesday that their arguments would prevail. But they also agreed that the cases present the court's seven justices _ six of whom voted to review the challenges _ with complex questions that have few precedents in state case law.

Although more than two dozen states have similar amendments, some of which have survived similar lawsuits, none were approved by voters in a place where gay marriage already was legal.

Neither were any approved in a state where the high court had put sexual orientation in the same protected legal class as race and religion, which the California Supreme Court did when it rendered its 4-3 decision that made same-sex marriage legal in May.

Opponents of the ban argue that voters improperly abrogated the judiciary's authority by stripping same-sex couples of the right to wed after the high court earlier ruled it was discriminatory to prohibit gay men and lesbians from marrying.

"If given effect, Proposition 8 would work a dramatic, substantive change to our Constitution's 'underlying principles' of individual equality on a scale and scope never previously condoned by this court," lawyers for the same-sex couples stated in their petition.

The measure represents such a sweeping change that it constitutes a constitutional revision as opposed to an amendment, the documents say. The distinction would have required the ban's backers to obtain approval from two-thirds of both houses of the California Legislature before submitting it to voters.

Over the past century, the California Supreme Court has heard nine cases challenging legislative acts or ballot initiatives as improper revisions. The court eventually invalidated three of the measures, according to the gay rights group Lambda Legal.

Andrew Pugno, legal counsel for the Yes on 8 campaign, said he doubts the court will buy the revision argument in the case of the gay marriage ban because the plaintiffs would have to prove the measure alters the state's basic governmental framework.

Joel Franklin, a constitutional law professor at Monterey College of Law, said that even though the court rejected similar procedural arguments when it upheld amendments reinstating the death penalty and limiting property taxes, those cases do not represent as much of a fundamental change as Proposition 8.

"Those amendments applied universally to all Californians," Franklin said. "This is a situation where you are removing rights from a particular group of citizens, a class of individuals the court has said is entitled to constitutional protection. That is a structural change."

The trio of cases the court accepted were filed by six same-sex couples who have not yet wed, a Los Angeles lesbian couple who were among the first to tie the knot on June 16 and 11 cities and counties, led by the city of San Francisco.

SAN FRANCISCO — California's highest court agreed Wednesday to hear several legal challenges to the state's new ban on same-sex marriage but refused to allow gay couples to resume marrying befor...
SAN FRANCISCO — California's highest court agreed Wednesday to hear several legal challenges to the state's new ban on same-sex marriage but refused to allow gay couples to resume marrying befor...
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Proposition 8 and Gay Marriage
Lets not waste anymore time on the Culture Wars that have there roots in the damn 60s.

We on the left have finally won with Obama we don't need to be wasting anymore time on the damn politics of the bedroom.

Don't make this an Issue for Obama.

Don't hijack his incoming political agenda with this Issue Gay Marriage.

There are more important issues in the US and the world for that matter then Gay marriage, I don't know issues like Third World Debt and Hunger.

Don't give the Republicans anything they can us.

We on the Left have won we don't need to be wasting any more time fighting the culture wars of the 60s.

Don't let the Obama Administration be remembered for the Gay marriage ISSUE.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:36 AM on 11/20/2008
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Yes...very good......but we have a bit of diversion in California. The religious right are still trying to divide us and separate us from the common purpose of creating an enlightened society working toward the good of the all instead of the good of a the few.

Thank You!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 AM on 11/20/2008

I'm not on the LEFT or the RIGHT... I am a gay man who wants EQUAL rights under the Constitution. If you have a problem with that, because it interferes with your left-wing agenda...TOO BAD!

I am fighting for my LIBERTY and will not set that aside for anyone!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 AM on 11/20/2008
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Equal rights for all, or equal rights for none.

If we can ignore the plight of Americans, then we can ignore the needs of the Third World.

Justice for all (gays, third world) or Justice for none.

The Counterculture of the 60s is at the core of international economic equality, civil rights, and ecological responsibility.

Discounting gay rights leads me to believe you are disingenuous.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:48 AM on 11/20/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 39 fans permalink
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there is no doubt prop 8 will be overturned.

and the mormons have put themselves under a VERY BRIGHT SPOTLIGHT. many more people in this country now know the ugly truth about mormons. they are disgusted. even some mormon members have left in disgust !!!!

i know for a fact (inside info) that the LDS is freaking out right now. they've been scrambling with their lawyers all week. the boycotts will hit mormons' wallets very hard. utah tourism will suffer. and say goodbye to that tax exemption. they haven't won anything. they lost because of their ignorance and a long history of bigotry.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 AM on 11/20/2008

The LDS church hasn't done anything untoward. Hyperventilating over it doesn't make it so.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:44 AM on 11/20/2008
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Lets put a LDS ban on the next ballot!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 AM on 11/20/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 294 fans permalink

Do your wives know you're on this site?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 AM on 11/20/2008
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lol....you are goin down......DOWN!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 AM on 11/20/2008
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I have no doubt that tax exempt status for fake churches will eventually be recinded. Maybe it will take a few hundred years, but eventually civilization will realize the ruse.

It's just a matter of time and enlightened thought!

Your a joke!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 AM on 11/20/2008

This amendment applies equally to all Californians.

To say otherwise would be like saying that a law against murder is unconstitutional because it is only meant to deprive murderers of their rights, while non-murderers are unaffected.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 AM on 11/20/2008
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You lost. Bye bye.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:44 AM on 11/20/2008

ROFL, what are you talking about? Last I heard, Prop 8 passed...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 AM on 11/20/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 294 fans permalink

You are not a mormon. Good try. give me time. I will figure out your game.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 AM on 11/20/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 39 fans permalink
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how many times does this have to be said:

THERE WON'T BE ANY MORE VOTES ON THE ISSUE.

the proposition never should have been allowed on the ballot in the first place.

this is NOT an issue that can be voted on. it's unconstitutional.

FYI: if you read your bill of rights, it clearly states that every american has the right to assemble
(that means PROTEST for all you geniuses that have never read the american constitution).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:22 AM on 11/20/2008
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Peace Brothers and Sisters. We may have to do this many many more times! There are people who don't even know what they are oppressing for! This is the struggle for our lives! Don't give ground!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:33 AM on 11/20/2008
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If history repeats itself, the USA will follow California in overturning this bigoted ban.

1948: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perez_v._Sharp

1967: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 AM on 11/20/2008
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To my gay brothers and sister: Sorry you have to deal with more hate and disrespect from religious right! I know they’ve worked against you your entire life! I get it! They've always been there telling us to stop being ourselves and they’ve always tried to manipulate us! We're not perfect, but just like any other segment of the population by in large, we are productive, caring, taxpaying, decent America citizens who would defend this country as well as anyone!

For the very first time in my life I am sincerely proud to be gay ! I really tried to be a “good Christian”, you know, to fit in, to be what they wanted me to be. Hell I sacrificed my youth and remained celibate for their comfort, and for WHAT! Now that I'm older and my youth is gone, I really really want to say to you. Don’t you dare back down now! Don’t you dare!

These people are selfish, ignorant, obsessed fanatics and they will not stop until you say ENOUGH! They have NOTHING at stake here except for their hypocritical religious sensibility! We need to say loud and clear: Look if you’re so damn afraid of life and of diversity, maybe you should question the ideology that taught you to be that way!

You guys are a gutsy amazing bunch of people to deal with all the bs this culture imposes on you!!
I have great admiration and respect for you! Love & Peace Brothers and Sisters!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 AM on 11/20/2008
- SBrooksB I'm a Fan of SBrooksB 3 fans permalink
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Mark, I'm older too. Hasn't it been incredible to see two new generations come tearing out of the shadows? I'm ashamed to say that until Prop 8, I had little sense of who the under-40s were. The clarity and precision of their anger is stunning to me. It's not just gay people, either -- I feel something in the collective consciousness has turned a corner. I'm psyched and hopeful for the first time in years.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:48 AM on 11/20/2008

THIS is how this issue should be decided (or maybe by a 2/3 vote of the CA Legislature), NOT with blocking streets, picketing those who voted for Prop 8, publicly burning the Book of Mormon, blacklists, etc. etc.

But no matter how they rule it no doubt won't satisfy everyone, so look for the cycle to repeat with the next election.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 AM on 11/20/2008
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Boo hoo Mr. Bully man.

We won't shutup and we won't go away.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:51 AM on 11/20/2008
- Tom95134 I'm a Fan of Tom95134 57 fans permalink
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The initial ruling declared marriage a 'fundamental right" which would mean that you cannot have a Constitutional Amendment that restricts the right to members of the opposite sex.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 AM on 11/20/2008
- shockmagog I'm a Fan of shockmagog 139 fans permalink
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Progress does not defer to one's "comfort" and false sense of self-worth. Progress means we all move forward.

A lesson can be learned from the patron saint of gay bashing bigots, Senator Man on Dog, himself:
“Marriage is not about affirming somebody’s love for somebody else. It’s about uniting together to be open to children, to further civilization in our society.” –Rick Santorum on Fox News Sunday.

We can use the vestiges of an ugly past to spur us on to a brighter future.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 PM on 11/19/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 39 fans permalink
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hopefully it's the sound of a labotomy being performed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 PM on 11/19/2008
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If this isn't overturned; this country can no longer claim...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

When religious people can gather together to oppress a minority and force them to be unequal, America's promise is dead. I've said it before, I'll say it again. The deeper you dig and the more layers you peel back, ultimately you will be staring hate, disgust, and anger in the face. That is what you find behind all of this....nothing more!

The religious right can wrap it up in the pages of their bible and throw holy water at it , but all it ever was, was fear, hate, ignorance, superstition and homophobia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:23 PM on 11/19/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 39 fans permalink
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has anyone looked at the kingdom of heaven's extremely sick website ?

http://www.wdcic.org/

churches lose their tax exemptions for endorsing presidential candidates -- she goes on and on about how the lord told her mccain was going to be the next president. i wonder: is her "church" tax exempt -- because it should be.

she also gushes over sarah palin -- sounds like someone's got a little crush.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:39 PM on 11/19/2008
- slaxx I'm a Fan of slaxx 38 fans permalink
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i don't think this is a "church." i think this is one person - interesting how she says that she's a tax exexpt corporation, especially when her logo says "kingdom of heaven, world divine government."

i too looked at her website and a lot of it was repeated in her letter to the court.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:47 PM on 11/19/2008

I agree, it seems to be just one person - the Divine Queen Mariette Do-Nguyen. Creepy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 AM on 11/20/2008
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Like a trip to Bellevue... Sick!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:05 PM on 11/19/2008
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What's that buzzing sound coming from her bedroom?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 PM on 11/19/2008

This will be overturned. The California Constitution is very clear about equality for all and protecting the minorities from the majority. And all these ridiculous Biblical arguments only hurt the proponents of Prop 8. And the idea that marriage is about procreation is ludicrous.

But outlawing divorce would apply equally to all. I'm all for that. And talk about a benefit to the kids to have a hateful resentful parents to come home to every night! Wow! But damn it, it'll protect the family and be in line with Biblical teachings!

Never forget stupid as stupid does.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:35 PM on 11/19/2008

So you believe that incestuous marriage is a Constitutionally guaranteed right as well?

Or do you think that sometimes discrimination is justified?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 AM on 11/20/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 294 fans permalink

No he does not. it's funny with dirty mind, that you would go there. Very interesting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:58 AM on 11/20/2008
- MamaBird62 I'm a Fan of MamaBird62 93 fans permalink

I think that all the brothers and sisters out there who really want to marry each other should raise their hands now.
Right, that's what I thought.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 AM on 11/20/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 294 fans permalink

Discrimination and criminal activity are two different things.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 AM on 11/20/2008
- rextrek I'm a Fan of rextrek 36 fans permalink
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one thing about OUT-LAWING divorce.....it would MAKE anyone/gay/str8 whatever - think twice about entering into marriage.......Now THAT would protect it - no?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:36 AM on 11/20/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 39 fans permalink
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this is the brief that was filed with the supreme court on behalf of the kingdom of heaven:

http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2008/11/sound-legal-arg.html

it's a MUST READ !

the woman that wrote this is psychotic -- i don't think she should be allowed to walk around in public.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:24 PM on 11/19/2008
- slaxx I'm a Fan of slaxx 38 fans permalink
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no -she should be in a hospital. it would be a severe injustice for her not to be on meds. it amazes me though hoe someone so sick could manage to have written this up? she probably had a lawyer do it for her, but that's just cruel for anyone to aide this woman's illness.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:30 PM on 11/19/2008

OMG!!! That is just frightening! If she weren't COMPLETLY off her rocker, she'd be dangerous. Has she ever bothered to read anything else besides her Bible? Like, say, maybe the Constitution? You know, that part that says something about the separation of church and state? Hmm?

What would be more frightening still would be if this woman actually had followers who believed the same thing.

YIKES!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:59 PM on 11/19/2008

Sorry to break it to you, but there's nothing in the Constitution about separation of church and state (except maybe the Establishment Clause, which doesn't use that language). That concept is actually attributed to Thomas Jefferson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 AM on 11/20/2008
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wow -- it's like a spec script for HBO

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:23 PM on 11/19/2008

on the up side

it has exposed religion

for what it sadly often is

the bright plumage of hate.

the threat is human
and never Divine
and thus: a good religion
is so hard to find

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:12 PM on 11/19/2008
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As a Christian, I've found that there are those who wave the Bible, and those who actually bother to read it.

Christian is as Christian does.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 PM on 11/19/2008

And the militant gays hate them all regardless.

Sad, but true.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 AM on 11/20/2008
- slaxx I'm a Fan of slaxx 38 fans permalink
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these people aren't following their religion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:30 PM on 11/19/2008
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sure they are - thankfully there's more than one (interpretation of) religion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:43 PM on 11/19/2008
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they just aren't following YOUR religion

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:44 AM on 11/20/2008
- slaxx I'm a Fan of slaxx 38 fans permalink
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and in all fairness, here's a petition put together by several churches to overturn prop. 8:

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme/highprofile/documents/s168332-petition-mandate.pdf

from the website a previous poster provided.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:44 PM on 11/19/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 39 fans permalink
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the will of the people doesn't apply when it comes to taking away the civil rights of a minority in this country. it can't be voted on.

where were you when civics was being taught in high school -- drinking beer ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 PM on 11/19/2008

How come only gay people complain here even though the MAJORITY of Californian's are opposed to gay marriage? Reading the comments here, one would think that "8" probably went down with at least 70% voting against it.

Hey Gays! Attention, the majority of Americans (even Californians are against gay marriage). Bring it back up in about 50 years and Americans might still be against it. Cut the public lip-locks, the outrageous demonstrations and parades and maybe you'll do better at the polls. I can guarantee with all the post election demonstrations have put your cause back several years outside of California.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:24 PM on 11/19/2008
- echo I'm a Fan of echo permalink

You are a bigot, EosBlue, pure and simple.

Would you put whether African-Americans can own property up to the popular vote?

Would you put whether Mormons can practice their religion up to the popular vote?

Of course not.

And this is why you will lose in court.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 PM on 11/19/2008
- slaxx I'm a Fan of slaxx 38 fans permalink
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i'm sorry you're so homophobic. and uneducated.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 PM on 11/19/2008
- M1 I'm a Fan of M1 44 fans permalink
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Public displays of affection are permanently here to stay. No more Mr. Nice Gay!

After all, if this prop 8 ammendment has nothing to do with prejudice then you should not mind at all if Gays display their affections in public.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:35 PM on 11/19/2008

I think it is ig.nor.amuses like yourself who are the problem. Learn to love thy neighbor, even your gay ones, and maybe you will deserve to be taken seriously. Until then, I (a straight married mom) look at you with pity for the ha.te and fear that so obviously consumes you. Gay marriage will be a reality in California a lot sooner than 50 years. Evolve with the rest of us, or live a small life of intolerance and irrelevance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:40 PM on 11/19/2008
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Hey Eos: it only took 8 years for public support of (your idea of) traditional marriage to be wittled down to a managable 4% majority.

I wonder how that majority would have withstood an honest "yes on 8" campaign, unfunded by the LDS?

It would have failed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:46 PM on 11/19/2008
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