California Supreme Court To Hear Cases Challenging Gay Marriage Ban

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LISA LEFF | November 19, 2008 09:13 PM EST | AP

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Rev. Amos Brown, a national board member of the NAACP, raises his hands as he speaks to a large crowd of supporters of same-sex marriage, as they cheer in front of San Francisco City Hall on Saturday, Nov. 15, 2008. Thousands of demonstrators gathered to listen to speakers and protest the passage of Proposition 8, a ballot measure amending California's constitution to ban same-sex marriage. The event is part of a simultaneous protest planned in in hundreds of communities. (AP Photo/Darryl Bush)

SAN FRANCISCO — California's highest court agreed Wednesday to hear several legal challenges to the state's new ban on same-sex marriage but refused to allow gay couples to resume marrying before it rules.

The California Supreme Court accepted three lawsuits seeking to nullify Proposition 8, a voter-approved constitutional amendment that overruled the court's decision in May that legalized gay marriage.

All three cases claim the measure abridges the civil rights of a vulnerable minority group. They argue that voters alone did not have the authority to enact such a significant constitutional change.

As is its custom when it takes up cases, the court elaborated little. However, the justices did say they want to address what effect, if any, a ruling upholding the amendment would have on the estimated 18,000 same-sex marriages that were sanctioned in California before Election Day.

Gay rights groups and local governments petitioning to overturn the ban were joined by the measure's sponsors and Attorney General Jerry Brown in urging the Supreme Court to consider whether Proposition 8 passes legal muster.

The initiative's opponents had also asked the court to grant a stay of the measure, which would have allowed gay marriages to begin again while the justices considered the cases. The court denied that request.

The justices directed Brown and lawyers for the Yes on 8 campaign to submit arguments by Dec. 19 on why the ballot initiative should not be nullified. It said lawyers for the plaintiffs, who include same-sex couples who did not wed before the election, must respond before Jan. 5.

Oral arguments could be scheduled as early as March, according to court spokeswoman Lynn Holton.

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"This is welcome news. The matter of Proposition 8 should be resolved thoughtfully and without delay," Brown said in a statement.

Both opponents and supporters of Proposition 8 expressed confidence Wednesday that their arguments would prevail. But they also agreed that the cases present the court's seven justices _ six of whom voted to review the challenges _ with complex questions that have few precedents in state case law.

Although more than two dozen states have similar amendments, some of which have survived similar lawsuits, none were approved by voters in a place where gay marriage already was legal.

Neither were any approved in a state where the high court had put sexual orientation in the same protected legal class as race and religion, which the California Supreme Court did when it rendered its 4-3 decision that made same-sex marriage legal in May.

Opponents of the ban argue that voters improperly abrogated the judiciary's authority by stripping same-sex couples of the right to wed after the high court earlier ruled it was discriminatory to prohibit gay men and lesbians from marrying.

"If given effect, Proposition 8 would work a dramatic, substantive change to our Constitution's 'underlying principles' of individual equality on a scale and scope never previously condoned by this court," lawyers for the same-sex couples stated in their petition.

The measure represents such a sweeping change that it constitutes a constitutional revision as opposed to an amendment, the documents say. The distinction would have required the ban's backers to obtain approval from two-thirds of both houses of the California Legislature before submitting it to voters.

Over the past century, the California Supreme Court has heard nine cases challenging legislative acts or ballot initiatives as improper revisions. The court eventually invalidated three of the measures, according to the gay rights group Lambda Legal.

Andrew Pugno, legal counsel for the Yes on 8 campaign, said he doubts the court will buy the revision argument in the case of the gay marriage ban because the plaintiffs would have to prove the measure alters the state's basic governmental framework.

Joel Franklin, a constitutional law professor at Monterey College of Law, said that even though the court rejected similar procedural arguments when it upheld amendments reinstating the death penalty and limiting property taxes, those cases do not represent as much of a fundamental change as Proposition 8.

"Those amendments applied universally to all Californians," Franklin said. "This is a situation where you are removing rights from a particular group of citizens, a class of individuals the court has said is entitled to constitutional protection. That is a structural change."

The trio of cases the court accepted were filed by six same-sex couples who have not yet wed, a Los Angeles lesbian couple who were among the first to tie the knot on June 16 and 11 cities and counties, led by the city of San Francisco.

SAN FRANCISCO — California's highest court agreed Wednesday to hear several legal challenges to the state's new ban on same-sex marriage but refused to allow gay couples to resume marrying befor...
SAN FRANCISCO — California's highest court agreed Wednesday to hear several legal challenges to the state's new ban on same-sex marriage but refused to allow gay couples to resume marrying befor...
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- beerguy I'm a Fan of beerguy 16 fans permalink

Looks as if the court may help the angry mob overturn the will of the people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:43 PM on 11/19/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 255 fans permalink

No. it looks like the court will protect the minority from the majority because it is unconstitutional to vote on Civil Rights.

We will be a better country for it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 PM on 11/19/2008
- slaxx I'm a Fan of slaxx 37 fans permalink
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no, it looks like the court might rule against the angry mob, or rather "mob rule."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:52 PM on 11/19/2008
- M1 I'm a Fan of M1 35 fans permalink
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Slaxx, your ID name must represent your brain power.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:16 PM on 11/19/2008
- PanFx I'm a Fan of PanFx 50 fans permalink
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I find one common thread between right wingers and their wacky, unfounded fears: alcohol.

Get help, beerguy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:14 PM on 11/19/2008
- beerguy I'm a Fan of beerguy 16 fans permalink

Yes, I drink beer but the username refers to something else I do. Ever bought a beer at a sporting event?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 PM on 11/20/2008
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Once upon a time in America, my wife and I could not be legally married in 16 states, and that was OK with both the majority population AND the courts of those 16 states.

Then a married couple named Loving decided to challenge the State of Virginia in 1967 which had just such a law on its books that told that happy couple they could not be married to one another. I was five years old at the time.

It seems that the Supreme Court justices in 1967 concluded that the State of Virginia had no business telling Mr. & Mrs. Loving that they had no right to be married to each other.

You do the math.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 PM on 11/19/2008
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...the will of SOME people.

And yeah, discrimination should never be legislated.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:54 PM on 11/19/2008
- AudsMom I'm a Fan of AudsMom 4 fans permalink
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It was overturned once...they can do it again. If not I like Melissa Ethridges' idea...pay no taxes! If California doesn't want to recognize them with the full rights of a citizen of the state then they shouldn't have to pay the taxes as though they were one...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:20 PM on 11/19/2008

The state of California has benefitted quite well monetarily from the tax dollars paid by its gay and lesbian citizens particularly in the city of San Francisco. I should be so lucky to be able to afford to live in the Castro district! The general public should never be allowed to vote on anything as private and personal as marriage, because it is simply nobody's business except for the two that are marrying each other. A couple of years ago, a conservative group here in Illinois tried to get an anti-same sex marriage on the ballot. However, Illinois law allows for the signatures gathered on the petitions to be checked for accuracy before the initiative can be put on the ballot. A pro same sex marriage group formed and checked the signatures and fortunately found that many of them were invalid which kept the measure off the ballot. If California had had such a law, I'll bet they would have found many of the signatures to be invalid. The passage of Prop 8 is extremely embarassing for the state of California and for the United States as a whole. Let's hope it is overturned.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:55 PM on 11/19/2008
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It was overturned before, it will be overturned again.

As an aside: It's funny the things we assume about places we don't live.. ;)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:56 PM on 11/19/2008
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they are trying again in IL -- gird up for it!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 PM on 11/19/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 38 fans permalink
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Amicus brief filed on behalf of God in Prop 8 case:

An excerpt from the amicus brief:

"Obviously, as it is recorded in Genesis 1: 26-27 copied above, after God created human souls in God's divine image, God blessed them and ordered all human souls on earth: "Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it." (emphasis added)[...]

In order to fill the earth with human physical bodies, God ordered each and all marriages to be between one man and one woman! Indirectly, God prohibits gay and lesbian marriage.

Through Genesis 1: 26-27, God also orders all children must be born from natural conception and prohibits all abortions"!

w o w .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:13 PM on 11/19/2008

Do these religious zealots read anything but their little book? The courts have repeatedly said that religious belief is not justification for enactment of laws.

Justice Stevens, Harwick v. Brown 1986 (dissent)
"That certain...religious groups condemn the behavior at issue gives the State no license to impose their judgments on the entire citizenry.
The legitimacy of secular legislation depends, instead, on whether the State can advance some justification for its law beyond its conformity to religious doctrine.
Thus, far from buttressing his case, petitioner's invocation of Leviticus, Romans, St. Thomas Aquinas, and sodomy's heretical status during the Middle Ages undermines his suggestion that § 16-6-2 represents a legitimate use of secular coercive power.
A State can no more punish private behavior because of religious intolerance than it can punish such behavior because of racial animus."

Harwick v. Brown was overturned by Lawrence v. Texas in 2003

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 PM on 11/19/2008
- slaxx I'm a Fan of slaxx 37 fans permalink
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nice..by the way since the bible doesn't mention lesbianism, lesbians are in the clear right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:53 PM on 11/19/2008
- slaxx I'm a Fan of slaxx 37 fans permalink
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is that true or just a rumor from somewhere?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 PM on 11/19/2008
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So then how do "they" explain in-vitro fertilization? Not a 'natural conception'

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 PM on 11/19/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 255 fans permalink

That's an argument? Wow. it should be decided in favor of Civil rights just based on that alone.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:48 PM on 11/19/2008
- bboyy I'm a Fan of bboyy 9 fans permalink
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as an athiest, you are shoving your religion in my bedroom.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:09 PM on 11/19/2008
- slaxx I'm a Fan of slaxx 37 fans permalink
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reread the post.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 PM on 11/19/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 38 fans permalink
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HOLY COW !!!!!!!!!!!

bellamom, you were so right -- the Amicus brief those religious nuts filed was MINDBLOWING !!!!!

they filed te brief on behalf of god !!!!!!!!!!!

the judges are going to fall off their seats when they see that doozy.
they'll be talking about it at dinner parties 15 years from now. and so will i.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:10 PM on 11/19/2008
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Well, it is the only argument they can make against gay marriage...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:57 PM on 11/19/2008
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If the speed limit in CA was 120mph yesterday and changed to 20mph today, you can not punish someone for driving fast yesterday. So, if you are among the 18,000 who were legally married in CA in the past few months, congratulations! You're married. Now drive at 120mph to Conn. and Mass. and do it again and again. Demand your CIVIL RIGHTS! And if you were planning to get married in CA after the election do it someplace else, then go back and demand your rights.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 PM on 11/19/2008
- M1 I'm a Fan of M1 35 fans permalink
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Excellent Points!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:37 PM on 11/19/2008
- Lance734 I'm a Fan of Lance734 8 fans permalink

I would hate for those couples to have their marriages stripped away from them, but the plain language of the amendment does seem to render the 18,000 same-sex marriages void, IMHO. It uses the present tense "is" to describe what's valid and "shall be" to desrcibe what is to be recognizedfrom here on in the state of CA. A marriage is unlike your scenario presented above, in that it is not static or fixed at only one point in time. Wedding ceremonies might be properly described as such, but marriages stretech over time from the point of the ceremony until divorce/annullment or death of one or both spouses. Thus, these marriages presently exist in violation of the Prop8 Amendment. To my knowledge the Ex-Post Facto clause of the U.S. constitution has been held to only apply to punishments of the penal law, and since this isn't a criminal justice issue, I don't see any refuge there. Thus, I do think the next step for the right wing is to somehow bring a case seeking to declare the same-sex marriages already performed as in violation of present las (assuming this Prop8 challenge fails).

The forces of bigotry & discrimination will not stop and they will do all they can (as if they haven't done enough already) to inflict as much harm on this vulnerable minority group as they can, all in the name of faith. Truly sickening.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 PM on 11/20/2008
- Lance734 I'm a Fan of Lance734 8 fans permalink

Actually, I made a mistake. Unlike other amendments, Prop8 doesn't contain the words "shall be". It only uses the present tense verb "is" to say that only opposite-sex marriage "is valid or recognized in California." My point still stands, however that by its terms, I don't see how the same-sex marriages done btwn June 15 & Nov 4 can still be recognized in CA. Still sad.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:11 PM on 11/20/2008

The Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV) to the United States Constitution is one of the post-Civil War Reconstruction Amendments, first intended to secure the rights of former slaves. It was proposed on June 13, 1866, and ratified on July 9, 1868.[1]

The amendment provides a broad definition of citizenship, overruling Dred Scott v. Sandford which had excluded slaves and their descendants from possessing Constitutional rights. The amendment requires states to provide equal protection under the law to all persons within their jurisdictions and was used in the mid-20th century to dismantle racial segregation in the United States, as in Brown v. Board of Education. Its Due Process Clause has been the basis of much important and controversial case law regarding privacy rights, abortion (see Roe v. Wade), and other issues.

The other two Reconstruction Amendments are the Thirteenth Amendment (banning slavery) and the Fifteenth Amendment (banning race-based voting qualifications). In The Slaughterhouse Cases, 83 U.S. 36 (1872), dissenting Supreme Court Justice Swayne wrote, "Fairly construed, these amendments may be said to rise to the dignity of a new Magna Carta."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:57 PM on 11/19/2008
- M1 I'm a Fan of M1 35 fans permalink
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Beautifully written and a magnificent Statement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:40 PM on 11/19/2008
- BSERIUS I'm a Fan of BSERIUS 8 fans permalink

What will be addressed is 1) homosexual marriage is not a right. and is not constitutional..2 ) marriage like driving or playing the piano has prerequisites and homosexual relationships do not meet these. 3) Brown's antics will also be under scrutiny and the way PROP 8 was put on the ballot was legal

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:54 PM on 11/19/2008
- antaeus I'm a Fan of antaeus 87 fans permalink
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"To be ignorant of one's ignorance is the malady of the ignorant."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:56 PM on 11/19/2008
- MamaBird62 I'm a Fan of MamaBird62 92 fans permalink

Why is heterosexual marriage a right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:58 PM on 11/19/2008
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Shh.. don't confuse "them" with a valid argument - they'll have to display the hypocritical religious foundation on which their argument is built.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 PM on 11/19/2008

oh SNAP!!! nice one Mama!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:12 AM on 11/20/2008
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Wrong, you have no clue regarding law. You can rant all you want, but it isn't about you, it is about law, and this was done in violation of state law.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:00 PM on 11/19/2008
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According to the supreme court, "Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v_Virginia

The CA Supreme court ALREADY ruled that it cannot be denied based on gender.

The only rationals your side have are bigotry and religion.

The consequences of your actions will be the opposite of your intentions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:00 PM on 11/19/2008

The US Supreme Court clearly does not view human intimacy as having prerequisites...

Dissent in Harwick v. Brown:
The Court recognizes that the "ability independently to define one's identity that is central to any concept of liberty" cannot truly be exercised in a vacuum; we all depend on the "emotional enrichment from close ties with others."
Only the most willful blindness could obscure the fact that sexual intimacy is "a sensitive, key relationship of human existence, central to family life, community welfare, and the development of human personality,"
The fact that individuals define themselves in a significant way through their intimate sexual relationships with others suggests, in a Nation as diverse as ours, that there may be many "right" ways of conducting those relationships, and that much of the richness of a relationship will come from the freedom an individual has to choose the form and nature of these intensely personal bonds.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:06 PM on 11/19/2008
- DHC I'm a Fan of DHC 5 fans permalink

The Human Rights Campaign is irrelevant. Their entire approach to the No on H8 Campaign and subsequent marches has been abysmal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:42 PM on 11/19/2008
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We shall overcome.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:44 PM on 11/19/2008
- antaeus I'm a Fan of antaeus 87 fans permalink
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But they throw a kickin fundraising dinner.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:49 PM on 11/19/2008
- SpaceboySD I'm a Fan of SpaceboySD 18 fans permalink
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I marched in the San Diego Equality Rally and will never stop fighting for my rights until I get them BACK. Why don't you find something better to do than to pick on minorities and dictate how they express their commitments to each other.

The Human Rights campaign is for equality, plain and simple. Everyone should have equal rights. You are no better than me, and I am no better than you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:45 PM on 11/19/2008
- M1 I'm a Fan of M1 35 fans permalink
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Yea, like go feed the hungry. How about the Homeless under the bridges who are Veterans with PTSD....why don't you yes on prop 8 religious folks put your efforts where they are really needed. Your God must be so disappointed in yous.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:23 PM on 11/19/2008
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Our orgs are pathetic -- they totally failed us on this...........I tryed to make the outreach point with the campaign people a few times and basically told -- "we know what we're doing" -- well, not quite........

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:33 PM on 11/19/2008
- SteveS I'm a Fan of SteveS 18 fans permalink
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There was a time, not 40 years ago, when voters voted to outlaw interracial marriages. The Supreme Court case Loving vs. Virginia shot that down.

You can't just vote to deny people equality, anymore than you can vote to decide all people die at a certain age. You can't vote anything you want.

The minority gets to be protected from the tyranny of the majority.

Since anti-gay people have failed to learn the lessons of history, it's too bad (for them) they just spent millions upon millions to repeat them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:38 PM on 11/19/2008
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I dunno.. I like the thought of them loosing millions. :)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:51 PM on 11/19/2008

Me too! Let them spend themselves into oblivion.

Dobson's "Focus on the Family" spent so much of their funding on trying to oppress the Gay Community that they are laying-off large numbers of their staff.

If they were really focused on the family, they would spend that money to feed the children suffering under our devastated economy.

"Child Hunger In US Rose 50 Percent In 2007"
New government figures show that almost 700,000 children went hungry in the United States at some point in 2007, up more than 50 percent from the year before to mark the highest point since 1998.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 PM on 11/19/2008

Zippy, you are missing the point. This issue should never have been put to a vote in the first place.

Someone commenting on Judith Warner's 11/14/08 NY Times blog shrewdly asked 'Where would the civil rights movement be today, much less Barack Obama, had the people of Mississippi or Alabama been allowed to vote on passage of the Civil Rights Act or the Voting Rights Act?'

Democratic governments exist to protect the rights of its citizens. The idea that that same government would throw a vulnerable minority group to the lions and deem it acceptable to allow every Bigot Mormon Joe Soap to rule on an issue that has no bearing on their own lives, is nothing less that repulsive.

I am not American. I am not gay. But I am heartily sick of seeing every day the injustices perpetrated by a country that dares to call itself 'land of the free'.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:37 PM on 11/19/2008
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It is the 'land of the free'... you just have to fit into their little box.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:53 PM on 11/19/2008
- MamaBird62 I'm a Fan of MamaBird62 92 fans permalink

It will be fascinating to see how this court rules. In my view, Prop 8 is not constitutional. How can voters be allowed to take away existing rights? I'm glad the CA Supreme Court consists of a majority of Republicans right now. If they overturn Prop 8 no one can scream "liberal Democrats!"
I hope the court invokes Loving v. Virginia, where it was determined that anti-miscegenation laws were unconstitutional in part because they existed as a result of racism and a desire to maintain white supremacy, as well as violating the 14th amendment and its equal protection clause.
If the court reaches the conclusion that Prop 8 arose from anti-gay bigotry, then that law also cannot stand. I'm straight and it would be easier not to care, but I must stand with my gay brothers and sisters on this one.
I keep thinking of the commenter who suggested that women put forward a proposition prohibiting men from voting. We're the majority, after all. Shouldn't we get to decide?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:23 PM on 11/19/2008
- M1 I'm a Fan of M1 35 fans permalink
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That was funny/1

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:47 PM on 11/19/2008
- eyecon I'm a Fan of eyecon 8 fans permalink
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Apparently, the court will review the issue of whether or not Proposition 8 is effectively a change to the California constitution of an amendment. Some of the briefs in opposition to H8 are quite compelling.
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme/highprofile/prop8.htm

One of the proponent's briefs is extraordinarily amusing. Note, BTW, how it is signed:
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme/highprofile/documents/s168047-letter-denial-heaven.pdf

.. and some commentary on this issue in general:
http://www.tips-q.com/content/essential-activism

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:21 PM on 11/19/2008
- mooph I'm a Fan of mooph 8 fans permalink
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Boy, that Kingdom of Heaven amicus is pure quackery.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:27 PM on 11/19/2008
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I'm sure its a joke.

If its not, someone forgot to take their meds.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:32 PM on 11/19/2008

If all conception must be by natural methods, then aren't those who use test tube children, or in-vitro fertilization sinning against god?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:40 PM on 11/19/2008
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"One of the proponent's briefs is extraordinarily amusing. Note, BTW, how it is signed:"

This! brief! is! hilarious! I am so sorry if I offend anyone who is on this site and believes in all that is written in that brief (because I do wholeheartedly support your right to believe as you do, even if I totally disagree)... but, I have never ready a court filing with such liberal use of Biblical quotations and "!"s. The argument is so well formed, yet so inappropriate for a judicial proceeding. My favorite section is the "Consequences After Each and All Actions". I must print this out for my friends to read!

Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:32 PM on 11/19/2008

I don't think anyone who believes this quackery is reading HuffingtonPost... that would fill their minds with "The Devil's destruction energies"....whoa!!!

LMAO :-D

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:05 PM on 11/19/2008
- rbarry647 I'm a Fan of rbarry647 87 fans permalink
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First witness they must produce: Almighty Eternal Creator

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 PM on 11/19/2008
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WOW.

WOW

WOW....

Surely this isn't real??

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:57 PM on 11/19/2008
- slaxx I'm a Fan of slaxx 37 fans permalink
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after looking at it more deeply, obvioulsy the person who filed that brief has a serious mental illness. he/she claims to be the messiah, the third person of the holy trinity, the co-creator of earth and human souls; that she is the heiress of god and has been entrusted with of creation.

he/she claims that clinton's lying about his affair caused his heart attack and also claims that justices rehnquist and o'connor got what they deserved for sinning against god in some of their rulings. he/she blames gays for gobal warming, etc. etc.

it looks like this person also sent this to the ACLU, lambda legal, the national center for lesbian rights, etc. pretty much he/she is claiming that god entrusted all of creation to him/her and we have to do as he/she says. this person really has to be in a hospital somewhere.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:28 PM on 11/19/2008
- M1 I'm a Fan of M1 35 fans permalink
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Throw Newt Gingrich in there with the Almighty creator. They make a great pair don't you think?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:50 PM on 11/19/2008

You clearly do not understand the basis of our system of government. We live in a Constitutional Democracy... it's not called "throwing a fit", we call "redress".

In 1964, in the midst of a racial divide California's voters overwhelming passed proposition 14. That measure amended the California Constitution to invalidate the state's recent laws prohibiting race discrimination in housing, Rumford Fair Housing Act. It was overturned.

The initiative proved to be overwhelmingly popular, and was passed by a 65% majority vote in the 1964 California elections.

In 1967 the famed case of Reitman vs. Mulkey, first the California and then the US Supreme Court struck down the initiative as unconstitutional.

The Supreme Court ruled that the amendment was in violation of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. They invoked well settled constitutional doctrine perhaps best stated decades earlier by Justice Robert Jackson:
"the very purpose of the Bill of Rights is to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities... Fundamental rights may not be submitted to a vote, they depend on no elections."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:20 PM on 11/19/2008
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Actually, we live in a republic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:57 PM on 11/19/2008
- SpaceboySD I'm a Fan of SpaceboySD 18 fans permalink
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That was founded on the premise that all men are created equal and bestowed equal rights of protection under the law.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:47 PM on 11/19/2008

Zippy01, check out your Civics 101 class notes. We're a *representative* democracy with an initiative process in Calif., and three branches of government with different roles. That means that the executive branch cannot fail to enforce laws or changes to the constitution passed by the legislature or by the citizenry through the initiative process, but the courts *can.* Judicial review of laws and the constitution is absolutely crucial to the separation of powers that our democracy is founded on.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:13 PM on 11/19/2008
- SpaceboySD I'm a Fan of SpaceboySD 18 fans permalink
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THANK YOU!!

I hate how some people can't grasp simple, self-explanatory laws. Just because you don't like it doesn't give you the entitlement to do as you please. Wow, I just thought of our beloved war criminal George W. Bush...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:22 PM on 11/19/2008
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Who do you think voted that war criminal into office?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:30 PM on 11/19/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 255 fans permalink

They willfully ignore how are country and states are run.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:29 PM on 11/19/2008
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I'm not one to say I told you so, but in this case I'd like to say,

"NE-NER, NE-NER, NE-NER!"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:12 PM on 11/19/2008
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